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Praise the Lord

February 5, 2016

1:27:01

Mark Rutland hosts Wayne Hilsden, Jentezen Franklin, Erwin McManus and music by Jentezen Franklin and Free Chapel

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Praise the Lord

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- male announcer: From coast
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to coast, and around the world,
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it's time to praise the Lord!
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Praise the Lord
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let every nation rejoice!
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Praise the Lord
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with one mighty voice!
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- announcer: "Praise the Lord"
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covers the major
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Christian events in America
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and across the world,
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from the heart of Europe...
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To the tip of Africa...
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Praise the Lord
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Praise the Lord
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- announcer: From the centers
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of Asia...
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Gloria a Dios
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- announcer: Welcome to
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the number one Christian network
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in all the world.
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Joining us from Atlanta,
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Georgia, are President
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and Co-Founder of King of Kings
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Community in Jerusalem,
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Pastor Wayne Hilsden;
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Founder of Mosaic,
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Erwin McManus;
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Senior Pastor of Free Chapel,
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Pastor Jentezen Franklin.
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Ready to take your calls,
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prayer partners
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Praise the Lord
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let every nation rejoice!
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Praise the Lord
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with one mighty voice!
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Praise the Lord!
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Praise the Lord!
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Praise...
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- announcer: Now your host,
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Founder, President, and Senior
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Pastor of Global Servants,
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[audience applauding]
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- Dr. Mark Rutland: Welcome,
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welcome, welcome.
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And praise the Lord.
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It's not just the name of this
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show, it is actually that to
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which we are summoned by God
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himself, to praise the Lord.
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You're going to see some
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wonderful people tonight.
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I believe this is an array of
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some of the most creative and
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talented guests that you have
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ever seen on "Praise The Lord"
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and I'm delighted that you have
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chosen to join us for this.
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I have a Word for you now.
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I want you to listen to this
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passage of Scripture from
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the 8th verse.
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It's so eloquently worded.
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I love the creative beauty
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of the Word of God.
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Listen to this verse.
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"The one who made the Pleiades
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and Orion, who turns the deep
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darkness into dawn, who turns
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the waters of the sea and pours
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them out on the land."
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What a wonderful, wonderful
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passage of Scripture,
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so beautifully written.
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But listen to the heart of it.
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"The one who turns
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the deep darkness into dawn."
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I don't know what kind of
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darkness you may be facing.
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I don't know what you're going
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through right now but I know
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the one who turns darkness
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into dawn.
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I believe that God himself is
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the one that's going to bless
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you in this program tonight.
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And that passage ends, Daniel
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chapter 2, verse 8, it ends
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with this, "He is the Lord."
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And he's going to turn your
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darkness into dawn, amen?
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We have some wonderful pastors
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who have brought many of their
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congregations.
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Now, I'm gonna introduce them
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to you.
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We have with us, Bishop Charles
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and Pastor Lori Mackie from
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Keepin' It Real Lighthouse
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in Alpharetta, Georgia.
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Pastor Jimmy and Karen Copeland
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from Mustard Seed Faith
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Ministries in Covington,
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Georgia.
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Pastor Leela Brown Waller from
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Bethel African Methodist
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Episcopal in Acworth, Georgia.
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And Dr. Deborah and Minister
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Vernon Isom from Begin Again
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Ministries and Aaron's Beard
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School of the Prophetic in
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Fairburn, Georgia.
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Pastor Kurt and Treisa Lee from
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Kingdom Covenant Family
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Ministries in Fayetteville,
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Georgia.
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Pastor Herman and Lashunda
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Ellison, Temple of Faith
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Ministries, Decatur, Georgia.
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And Pastor Ross Heath,
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Faith Tabernacle East in
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Stone Mountain, Georgia.
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One of my very favorite people
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in all the world is here with
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not only the music.
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In a few moments, I'm gonna be
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interviewing him and it's an
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honor to do so.
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But right now, will you please
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greet Jentezen Franklin
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with "Oh, Happy Day."
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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Oh, happy day.
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[music]
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Oh, happy day.
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Oh, happy day.
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He taught me how
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to watch,
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watch and pray,
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watch and pray,
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and live rejoicing
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every, every day,
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every day.
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He taught me how
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to watch,
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watch and pray,
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watch and pray,
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and live rejoicing
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every, every day,
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every, every day,
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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[music]
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Oh, happy day.
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Oh, happy day.
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When Jesus comes.
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When Jesus comes.
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When Jesus washed.
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Oh, happy day.
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Oh, happy day.
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[music]
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[audience applauding]
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- Mark: "Oh Happy Day."
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What a wonderfully
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talented person.
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I tell you, I--every time
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I see Jentezen, every time
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I watch him, he's so articulate,
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such a great preacher,
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such a musician, slim, handsome,
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it just makes me wanna slap him.
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Jentezen, welcome.
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So glad to see you.
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- Jentezen Franklin: You're not
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supposed to lie on Christian TV.
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Thank you.
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I'm catching my breath.
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I'm getting old.
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I need a oxygen tank.
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- Mark: Well, this is great.
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I get to interview you for
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a change.
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- Jentezen: I'm so honored to
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be here with you.
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- Mark: I'm glad to see you,
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man.
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Jentezen and I persecute the
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saints together at Free Chapel
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and we're having a blast up
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there.
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- Jentezen: We really are.
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You know, we're on a, with many
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people, a corporate fast, a
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21-day fast.
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And we heard a message that
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Dr. Rutland preached actually
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and the Lord's Prayer but,
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specifically, your end of it,
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the Lord's Prayer that
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impacted us.
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I prayed that prayer today and
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I know all of us, that book,
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"21 Seconds That
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Can Change Your World,"
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is changing so many lives.
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And you never know what a day
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will bring but when we pray that
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prayer and I know many people
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are fasting and praying on the
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We're hearing, Dr. Rutland,
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reports from all over the world.
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- Mark: Praise God.
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- Jentezen: Of what God is
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doing in people.
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I did a little text yesterday
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and just put on social media,
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"If you're fasting, let us hear
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from you in a foreign nation."
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And we heard from about 60
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nations of people who were on
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the 21-day fast, praying the
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Lord's Prayer.
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- Mark: That's wonderful.
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Praise God.
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Wonderful.
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this will show everybody, this
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will prove to everybody, that I
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have absolutely no control over
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Jentezen Franklin because in the
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green room we just discussed
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this and he said, "I'm gonna
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bring your book up."
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And I said, "This is about you.
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It's not about my book."
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And immediately, he disobeyed
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me, right on camera.
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Well, Jentezen, how long have
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you been at Free Chapel?
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You're the Senior Pastor there.
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You've been there how many
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years?
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- Jentezen: I think about 26
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years, something like that.
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Twenty-six, twenty-seven years.
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- Mark: Wow, what a ride, what
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a ride.
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It's unbelievable what's
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happened there now.
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- Jentezen: It really is, you
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know.
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"Despise not the day of small
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beginnings."
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I know when we went there, we
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just had just a real vision to
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believe that God could raise up
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a local church that could impact
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that region.
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And it's almost like the
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community has grown around us
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'cause there wasn't a lot in
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Gainesville but, you know, it
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seems like all of Atlanta has
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gone North and we were just so
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thankful and so humbled that God
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has used that church and given
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us a platform to reach a lot of
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people.
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- Mark: Really?
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A worldwide footprint.
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Not just the out--you have
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the campus in Orange County,
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California, in Irvine, you have
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the campus in Spartanburg, South
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Carolina, the campus in Gwynedd
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County, Georgia, and of course,
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the headquarters church there in
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Gainesville, and a worldwide
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television outreach.
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It's amazing what God has done.
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- Jentezen: Well, we're so
00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:27.260
thankful to TBN for giving us
00:12:27.260 --> 00:12:29.160
that opportunity, you know.
00:12:29.160 --> 00:12:30.280
I actually, I'm playing the sax
00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:32.220
tonight and people maybe--some
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people don't even know I play
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music.
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But I was a musician before I
00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:38.240
was a preacher.
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I used to play piano for my dad
00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:41.170
in his church.
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I used to play--I started on the
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drums.
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And then I went to bass guitar.
00:12:44.270 --> 00:12:47.250
Played bass for a little while,
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believe it or not, then I went
00:12:49.020 --> 00:12:50.040
and played piano.
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And then my mother bought me a
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saxophone.
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And my dad said I sounded like a
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dying goose when I first got the
00:12:56.140 --> 00:12:58.140
saxophone.
00:12:58.140 --> 00:12:59.030
So all of you parents who have
00:12:59.030 --> 00:13:01.030
kids in band, don't give up on
00:13:01.030 --> 00:13:03.040
'em.
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They may end up hitting some
00:13:03.240 --> 00:13:05.110
good notes for Jesus one of
00:13:05.110 --> 00:13:06.260
these days.
00:13:06.260 --> 00:13:08.040
But it has a rough beginning.
00:13:08.040 --> 00:13:09.220
And you know, and I took lessons
00:13:09.250 --> 00:13:12.250
all my life for about 12 years,
00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:15.010
all the way up, and always loved
00:13:15.010 --> 00:13:17.010
music, though, Dr. Rutland.
00:13:17.010 --> 00:13:18.120
You know, I think if you're a
00:13:18.120 --> 00:13:19.160
private worshiper, you'll be a
00:13:19.160 --> 00:13:21.140
good public worshiper and leader
00:13:21.140 --> 00:13:24.090
in worship.
00:13:24.090 --> 00:13:25.040
- Mark: What a good word.
00:13:25.040 --> 00:13:26.060
- Jentezen: A lot of people
00:13:26.060 --> 00:13:27.020
don't worship in private.
00:13:27.020 --> 00:13:28.150
And some of the greatest times
00:13:28.150 --> 00:13:29.120
of worship that I have
00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:30.190
personally is when I'm at home
00:13:30.190 --> 00:13:32.110
by myself and I've got a piano
00:13:32.110 --> 00:13:34.200
there and I'll just sit down and
00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:36.020
start playing and singing and
00:13:36.020 --> 00:13:37.170
sometimes just an expression
00:13:37.170 --> 00:13:39.190
from my heart and it's amazing
00:13:39.190 --> 00:13:41.280
how God's presence, you know,
00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:43.170
when it's done, like, not out of
00:13:43.170 --> 00:13:45.180
performance but out of, "I
00:13:45.180 --> 00:13:47.030
really love you and I wanna sing
00:13:47.030 --> 00:13:49.040
this song to you."
00:13:49.040 --> 00:13:50.010
And so we did a--I had a desire
00:13:50.010 --> 00:13:52.110
to do a CD and grab some of the
00:13:52.110 --> 00:13:55.100
old hymns, great hymns, of the
00:13:55.100 --> 00:13:57.160
church, songs of the church,
00:13:57.160 --> 00:13:59.020
songs by people like
00:13:59.020 --> 00:14:00.280
Andraé Crouch who, in my era,
00:14:00.280 --> 00:14:02.240
is Elvis.
00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:03.120
Do you remember Andraé?
00:14:03.120 --> 00:14:04.070
- Mark: Oh, man.
00:14:04.070 --> 00:14:04.260
- Jentezen: I loved
00:14:04.260 --> 00:14:05.190
Andraé Crouch.
00:14:05.190 --> 00:14:06.110
He's gone to be with the Lord
00:14:06.110 --> 00:14:07.220
but his music just messed me up,
00:14:07.220 --> 00:14:09.240
you know, "The Blood Will Never
00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.050
Lose Its Power," "Through It
00:14:11.050 --> 00:14:12.180
All," "To God Be the Glory," "My
00:14:12.180 --> 00:14:14.180
Tribute."
00:14:14.180 --> 00:14:17.180
I mean, we could go on and on.
00:14:17.180 --> 00:14:19.090
And so we grabbed some of his
00:14:19.090 --> 00:14:20.150
songs and we put it on this CD
00:14:20.150 --> 00:14:23.090
and I wanted to get some of the
00:14:23.090 --> 00:14:24.220
traditional hymns like, "At
00:14:24.220 --> 00:14:26.220
the Cross," and--
00:14:26.220 --> 00:14:27.290
- Mark: Beautiful, beautiful.
00:14:27.290 --> 00:14:28.260
- Jentezen: Then at--we
00:14:28.260 --> 00:14:29.180
recorded it live at Free Chapel
00:14:29.180 --> 00:14:31.150
and I'm playing the sax on all
00:14:31.150 --> 00:14:32.180
of 'em and then we went in
00:14:32.180 --> 00:14:35.010
studio in Nashville and had a
00:14:35.010 --> 00:14:36.200
40-piece orchestra come in and
00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.080
really fatten it up.
00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:41.120
- Mark: Spike it up.
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:42.000
- Jentezen: Yeah, exactly.
00:14:42.000 --> 00:14:42.210
And it was a beautiful
00:14:42.210 --> 00:14:43.110
experience.
00:14:43.110 --> 00:14:44.020
I really enjoyed it and, if
00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:45.010
nobody else likes this CD, I
00:14:45.010 --> 00:14:46.060
really like it 'cause--
00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:48.010
- Mark: It's gonna be
00:14:48.010 --> 00:14:48.280
beautiful.
00:14:48.280 --> 00:14:49.170
- Jentezen: I love all the new
00:14:49.170 --> 00:14:50.090
stuff.
00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:50.240
You know, we're a contemporary
00:14:50.240 --> 00:14:51.220
ministry and we, you know,
00:14:51.220 --> 00:14:53.130
our--this is not in any way like
00:14:53.130 --> 00:14:55.270
a representation of our praise
00:14:56.180 --> 00:14:59.180
and worship at our church.
00:14:59.180 --> 00:15:01.100
We do, you know, contemporary
00:15:01.100 --> 00:15:03.170
worship with Hillsong and all
00:15:03.170 --> 00:15:05.100
the great, Bethel, and all that
00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:07.120
great music and some of our own.
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.220
But I wanted to go back and say
00:15:09.220 --> 00:15:11.020
to our pastors and leaders that
00:15:11.020 --> 00:15:13.210
it's okay to mix the new with
00:15:13.210 --> 00:15:16.040
the old.
00:15:16.040 --> 00:15:17.040
That there's something about
00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:18.100
Granny needs some of her music
00:15:18.100 --> 00:15:19.260
too, you know, and, beyond that,
00:15:19.260 --> 00:15:22.090
the younger generation gets in
00:15:22.090 --> 00:15:24.100
to some of these great hymns
00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:25.260
when they hear the lyrics and
00:15:25.260 --> 00:15:28.000
the power that's in these words,
00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:30.130
you know, "At the cross, at the
00:15:30.130 --> 00:15:32.090
cross where I first saw the
00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:33.190
light.
00:15:33.190 --> 00:15:34.170
And the burdens of my heart were
00:15:34.170 --> 00:15:36.070
rolled away."
00:15:36.070 --> 00:15:37.030
And this music is timeless.
00:15:37.030 --> 00:15:38.220
- Mark: It is timeless.
00:15:38.220 --> 00:15:40.000
I was looking at some of
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:40.240
the--before the show, was
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:42.060
looking at some of the titles on
00:15:42.060 --> 00:15:43.170
here.
00:15:43.170 --> 00:15:44.200
"Oh Happy Day," which you opened
00:15:44.200 --> 00:15:45.180
with.
00:15:45.180 --> 00:15:46.150
That was fantastic.
00:15:46.150 --> 00:15:47.240
- Jentezen: Thank you.
00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:48.190
- Mark: "I've Got a Feeling,"
00:15:48.190 --> 00:15:49.130
"There's Something About That
00:15:49.130 --> 00:15:50.100
Name," that's a--and it ends,
00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:52.220
the whole thing ends with
00:15:52.220 --> 00:15:53.210
"Because He Lives."
00:15:53.210 --> 00:15:54.240
- Jentezen: You could sing,
00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:55.210
"There's Something About That
00:15:55.210 --> 00:15:56.140
Name," Dr. Rutland, that's such
00:15:56.140 --> 00:15:57.180
a beautiful song.
00:15:57.180 --> 00:15:58.280
Do you wanna sing it right now?
00:15:58.280 --> 00:16:00.040
- Mark: Nobody would recognize
00:16:00.040 --> 00:16:01.040
it if I sang it.
00:16:01.040 --> 00:16:02.190
I couldn't hit those notes
00:16:02.190 --> 00:16:04.280
if my hand was caught
00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:06.030
in a meat grinder.
00:16:06.030 --> 00:16:07.150
- Jentezen: Ohh.
00:16:07.150 --> 00:16:08.260
- Mark: It's wonderful.
00:16:08.260 --> 00:16:10.040
This is great.
00:16:10.040 --> 00:16:11.060
I'm absolute--
00:16:11.060 --> 00:16:12.080
- Jentezen: That's quite
00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:12.280
a mental picture,
00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:13.220
isn't it?
00:16:13.220 --> 00:16:15.280
- Mark: This is gonna be
00:16:15.280 --> 00:16:16.230
fantastic.
00:16:16.230 --> 00:16:17.130
"I Hear the Sound--"
00:16:17.130 --> 00:16:18.130
- Jentezen: Well, at any point
00:16:18.130 --> 00:16:19.050
tonight when I'm playing, if you
00:16:19.050 --> 00:16:20.070
just wanna jump in.
00:16:20.070 --> 00:16:21.030
- Mark: I'll walk over there
00:16:21.030 --> 00:16:21.240
and join in.
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:22.140
- Jentezen: Yeah, just hit that
00:16:22.140 --> 00:16:23.060
meat-grinder high C.
00:16:23.060 --> 00:16:24.100
- Mark: Then I want it to go on
00:16:24.100 --> 00:16:26.060
record that I sang a duet with
00:16:26.060 --> 00:16:28.080
Jentezen Franklin.
00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.210
- Jentezen: Well, that's not
00:16:29.210 --> 00:16:30.230
saying much but we can do it, we
00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:32.080
can do it.
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:33.140
- Mark: The title is, "I Hear
00:16:33.140 --> 00:16:35.200
the Sound: Songs That Matter."
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:37.150
I love it.
00:16:37.150 --> 00:16:38.110
And it's recorded live at Free
00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:39.220
Chapel and it's a
00:16:39.220 --> 00:16:41.110
beautiful--many, many people are
00:16:41.110 --> 00:16:43.120
gonna get this.
00:16:43.120 --> 00:16:44.080
- Jentezen: Thank you.
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:45.030
- Mark: This is a gorgeous,
00:16:45.030 --> 00:16:45.270
gorgeous album.
00:16:45.270 --> 00:16:46.230
Thank you so much for taking the
00:16:46.230 --> 00:16:47.230
time to do this and to produce
00:16:47.230 --> 00:16:50.170
this.
00:16:50.170 --> 00:16:51.080
A lot of people need to hear
00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:52.080
this music and it'll be a
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:53.140
comfort to a lot of people.
00:16:53.140 --> 00:16:54.200
- Jentezen: You know, I think
00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:55.130
atmosphere matters.
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.240
It's funny how restaurants and
00:16:58.280 --> 00:17:02.000
even clubs and things, they
00:17:02.090 --> 00:17:05.090
understand the power of
00:17:05.090 --> 00:17:06.070
atmosphere.
00:17:06.070 --> 00:17:07.260
And I think sometimes we fail to
00:17:07.260 --> 00:17:09.100
remember that the Holy Spirit
00:17:09.100 --> 00:17:11.150
responds to atmospheres.
00:17:11.150 --> 00:17:13.150
And what we capture on this, a
00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:15.260
lot of the songs--some of the
00:17:15.260 --> 00:17:17.080
songs, once we get past the
00:17:17.080 --> 00:17:18.070
upbeat stuff like you just
00:17:18.070 --> 00:17:19.280
heard, we just basically go into
00:17:19.280 --> 00:17:22.100
a mode of worship that you could
00:17:22.100 --> 00:17:23.250
put on when you really wanna
00:17:23.250 --> 00:17:25.030
pray and really wanna just be
00:17:25.030 --> 00:17:26.110
with the Lord or meditate and
00:17:26.110 --> 00:17:27.280
I'd encourage people this year,
00:17:27.280 --> 00:17:30.050
early this year, you know, to
00:17:30.050 --> 00:17:31.230
just make up your mind you're
00:17:31.230 --> 00:17:33.080
gonna be a worshipper because if
00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:34.190
you'll worship, you'll get
00:17:34.190 --> 00:17:36.040
through any trial life will
00:17:36.040 --> 00:17:37.020
bring.
00:17:37.020 --> 00:17:38.040
And sometimes, you know, the
00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:39.270
praise that costs the most
00:17:39.270 --> 00:17:41.170
counts the most.
00:17:41.170 --> 00:17:43.190
It's easy to praise God when
00:17:43.190 --> 00:17:45.210
you're on top of everything but
00:17:45.210 --> 00:17:46.270
when you're going through the
00:17:46.270 --> 00:17:49.020
struggle, when you're going
00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:51.140
through loss, when you're going
00:17:51.140 --> 00:17:53.000
through pain and life comes to
00:17:53.000 --> 00:17:54.290
all of us and I've found that I
00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:00.260
can put on the garment of praise
00:18:00.260 --> 00:18:03.240
for the spirit of heaviness.
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:05.140
Life gets heavy but you--if you
00:18:05.140 --> 00:18:08.050
will begin to say, "But, Lord,
00:18:08.050 --> 00:18:10.200
you're good and I choose to
00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:12.160
worship you, and I even turn
00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.150
this season, because it's not
00:18:14.150 --> 00:18:16.270
gonna last forever."
00:18:16.270 --> 00:18:19.190
Whatever you're going through,
00:18:19.190 --> 00:18:21.220
it's not gonna last forever.
00:18:21.220 --> 00:18:23.040
The sun will shine again.
00:18:23.040 --> 00:18:24.250
God'll give you another miracle.
00:18:24.250 --> 00:18:27.060
Maybe the thing didn't work out
00:18:27.060 --> 00:18:29.010
like you wanted it to.
00:18:29.010 --> 00:18:30.200
The door you thought opened and
00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.030
it closed or some thing that
00:18:32.030 --> 00:18:34.080
you--Bible said, "Hope deferred
00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:35.150
makes the heart sick."
00:18:35.150 --> 00:18:37.210
When something you really dream
00:18:37.210 --> 00:18:38.230
for and it just collapses and
00:18:38.230 --> 00:18:40.180
you feel like your world's caved
00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:42.120
in.
00:18:42.120 --> 00:18:43.110
I've learned that in those
00:18:43.110 --> 00:18:45.030
times, that if I will worship,
00:18:45.030 --> 00:18:47.070
you know, and just meditate on
00:18:47.070 --> 00:18:49.050
the Word of God and fill my
00:18:49.050 --> 00:18:50.250
heart with--remind myself that
00:18:52.060 --> 00:18:55.060
he's for me, he's not against
00:18:55.060 --> 00:18:57.210
me.
00:18:57.210 --> 00:18:58.150
It's nothing you've done that's
00:18:58.150 --> 00:18:59.160
made a tragedy or something
00:18:59.160 --> 00:19:01.190
tough hit your life.
00:19:01.190 --> 00:19:03.090
I don't believe that.
00:19:03.090 --> 00:19:04.140
I don't believe we have a God up
00:19:04.140 --> 00:19:05.130
there who's throwing hate balls
00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:07.240
at us and I believe he loves us.
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.110
I believe life just happens
00:19:10.110 --> 00:19:12.060
sometimes.
00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:12.280
Things just happen.
00:19:12.280 --> 00:19:14.100
And in those times, you have to
00:19:14.100 --> 00:19:15.110
do what David did.
00:19:15.110 --> 00:19:17.050
David encouraged himself in the
00:19:17.050 --> 00:19:19.060
Lord.
00:19:19.060 --> 00:19:19.240
And I believe he did it through
00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:20.160
praise.
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:21.110
- Mark: I do too.
00:19:21.110 --> 00:19:21.280
I think it's critical.
00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:23.040
And I appreciate the balance you
00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:25.010
bring, Jentezen.
00:19:25.010 --> 00:19:26.210
Sometimes, it seems like we send
00:19:26.210 --> 00:19:29.040
the message in the Spirit-filled
00:19:29.050 --> 00:19:32.050
realm that if you're right with
00:19:32.050 --> 00:19:34.100
God and living right and
00:19:34.100 --> 00:19:35.240
believing right, nothing bad
00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:37.150
will ever happen to you.
00:19:37.150 --> 00:19:38.160
But sometimes, life collides
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.080
with us.
00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:42.050
- Jentezen: All you need to do
00:19:42.050 --> 00:19:43.040
is get you some children and
00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:44.270
it'll balance you out real
00:19:44.270 --> 00:19:47.050
quick.
00:19:47.050 --> 00:19:48.120
- Mark: It'll put your feet on
00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:49.070
the ground.
00:19:49.070 --> 00:19:49.220
- Jentezen: Get you some
00:19:49.220 --> 00:19:50.130
teenagers in your house.
00:19:50.130 --> 00:19:52.030
Get you some--because people,
00:19:52.230 --> 00:19:55.230
you know, it's gotta be real or
00:19:55.230 --> 00:19:57.250
if it doesn't work in everyday
00:19:57.250 --> 00:19:59.130
life, if it doesn't work in the
00:19:59.130 --> 00:20:01.010
times when, you know, our heart
00:20:02.180 --> 00:20:05.180
is broken.
00:20:05.180 --> 00:20:06.150
And I just think that one of the
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:09.240
greatest ways that we can
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.080
maintain our joy, and it's
00:20:11.080 --> 00:20:13.270
really something you need to do,
00:20:13.270 --> 00:20:16.050
is to remind ourselves that God
00:20:16.050 --> 00:20:18.000
loves us and do it through song
00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.150
and do it through worship.
00:20:19.150 --> 00:20:20.270
I love to do it.
00:20:20.270 --> 00:20:21.270
- Mark: One of the things that
00:20:21.270 --> 00:20:22.240
music does and, like, a CD like
00:20:22.240 --> 00:20:24.220
this can do for us, it seems to
00:20:24.220 --> 00:20:27.220
me, is just to create
00:20:27.220 --> 00:20:30.000
that--where I listen most is in
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:31.210
my car.
00:20:31.210 --> 00:20:33.060
And I think most people do.
00:20:33.060 --> 00:20:34.180
And you know, you just turn that
00:20:34.180 --> 00:20:36.000
car into a sanctuary of worship
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:38.190
and it--I wanna praise God but
00:20:38.190 --> 00:20:40.270
sometimes I need to prime the
00:20:40.270 --> 00:20:42.150
pump.
00:20:42.150 --> 00:20:43.090
- Jentezen: That's good.
00:20:43.090 --> 00:20:43.280
- Mark: Sometimes, I just need
00:20:43.280 --> 00:20:44.270
to surround myself and I find
00:20:44.270 --> 00:20:47.030
myself caught up in the streams
00:20:47.030 --> 00:20:49.160
of what somebody else is singing
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:51.010
or the music, whatever, and
00:20:51.010 --> 00:20:52.290
that's one of the purposes of
00:20:52.290 --> 00:20:54.230
recorded music.
00:20:54.230 --> 00:20:56.220
To help people get started with
00:20:56.220 --> 00:20:58.210
worship.
00:20:58.210 --> 00:20:59.270
- Jentezen: It really is.
00:20:59.270 --> 00:21:00.240
I, one time, read a book and
00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:04.130
this author who wrote it was a
00:21:04.130 --> 00:21:07.060
praise and worship leader.
00:21:07.060 --> 00:21:08.220
He said that music is mentioned
00:21:08.220 --> 00:21:10.150
839 times in the Bible.
00:21:10.150 --> 00:21:12.230
Over 200 verses instruct us to
00:21:13.280 --> 00:21:16.280
come into God's presence with
00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:18.100
singing.
00:21:18.100 --> 00:21:19.060
And so it's not a light small
00:21:19.060 --> 00:21:20.220
topic to God.
00:21:22.030 --> 00:21:25.030
And when we do it, he says that
00:21:25.030 --> 00:21:26.020
he will inhabit our praises.
00:21:26.020 --> 00:21:27.230
And sometimes we need to get
00:21:27.230 --> 00:21:29.090
broken too in God's presence
00:21:29.090 --> 00:21:31.110
and, if your eyes are always
00:21:31.110 --> 00:21:32.280
dry, it's probably a sign your
00:21:32.280 --> 00:21:34.150
soul is dry.
00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:35.230
You know, if you lose your
00:21:35.230 --> 00:21:38.080
emotions, I'm not overly
00:21:38.080 --> 00:21:40.050
emotional but I do believe that
00:21:40.070 --> 00:21:43.070
we ought to exhibit our worship
00:21:43.070 --> 00:21:45.270
in God in times even with
00:21:45.270 --> 00:21:47.060
emotion.
00:21:47.060 --> 00:21:48.210
The emotion we're feeling in
00:21:48.210 --> 00:21:50.050
life in that different--in that
00:21:50.050 --> 00:21:51.270
particular season.
00:21:51.270 --> 00:21:53.030
And I think sometimes, people
00:21:53.030 --> 00:21:56.000
just let their heart grow cold
00:21:56.090 --> 00:21:59.090
even though they love the Lord
00:21:59.090 --> 00:22:01.030
and we need expressions of
00:22:01.030 --> 00:22:02.200
worship and expressions of
00:22:03.010 --> 00:22:06.010
praise.
00:22:06.010 --> 00:22:06.280
And there are certain songs that
00:22:06.280 --> 00:22:08.100
I've heard, you know, that just
00:22:08.100 --> 00:22:09.060
hit me at a certain time in my
00:22:09.060 --> 00:22:10.210
life and the tears would just
00:22:10.210 --> 00:22:12.050
flow and that's all right.
00:22:12.050 --> 00:22:13.230
It's all right because there's
00:22:13.230 --> 00:22:15.160
healing in that and there's
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:16.190
power in that and there's
00:22:16.190 --> 00:22:17.160
worship in that.
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:18.160
- Mark: Amen.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:19.090
Jentezen, I would be remiss if I
00:22:19.090 --> 00:22:21.230
don't ask you a question.
00:22:21.230 --> 00:22:22.230
I told someone I was gonna be
00:22:22.230 --> 00:22:23.270
interviewing you on this program
00:22:23.270 --> 00:22:26.020
and they said, "Look, I've got
00:22:26.020 --> 00:22:28.060
something I've always wanted to
00:22:28.060 --> 00:22:29.110
ask him."
00:22:29.110 --> 00:22:30.070
You've probably written as much
00:22:30.070 --> 00:22:31.250
and practiced as much
00:22:31.250 --> 00:22:33.120
as--fasting, as anybody in the
00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:35.080
contemporary church.
00:22:35.080 --> 00:22:36.240
And they said, "Ask him this.
00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:38.270
'What is the number one benefit
00:22:38.270 --> 00:22:41.190
of fasting?
00:22:41.190 --> 00:22:42.200
What is it supposed to do for
00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:43.130
me?'"
00:22:43.130 --> 00:22:44.080
This person asked.
00:22:44.080 --> 00:22:46.060
- Jentezen: For me, it is the
00:22:46.060 --> 00:22:48.240
quickest way that I can go back
00:22:49.260 --> 00:22:52.260
to the basics of just loving
00:22:54.160 --> 00:22:57.160
Jesus.
00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:58.190
Sometimes it can--we can get
00:22:58.190 --> 00:23:00.140
cluttered.
00:23:00.140 --> 00:23:01.100
We can--you just accumulate
00:23:01.160 --> 00:23:04.160
things in your soul, in your
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:06.100
Spirit, in your heart.
00:23:06.100 --> 00:23:08.040
And if you want a quick way into
00:23:08.040 --> 00:23:11.020
the presence of God, a quick way
00:23:11.020 --> 00:23:13.170
to, you know, like the old song,
00:23:13.170 --> 00:23:15.210
I think Andraé wrote it,
00:23:15.210 --> 00:23:17.090
"Take Me Back."
00:23:17.090 --> 00:23:18.100
Take me back to the place where
00:23:18.100 --> 00:23:20.020
I first believed.
00:23:20.020 --> 00:23:21.150
And there's something about
00:23:21.150 --> 00:23:22.150
fasting that makes you extremely
00:23:22.150 --> 00:23:23.240
sensitive.
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:25.090
And when I feel myself getting
00:23:25.090 --> 00:23:26.120
cold, when I feel myself
00:23:26.120 --> 00:23:28.080
becoming mechanical, when I feel
00:23:28.080 --> 00:23:30.050
myself praying but, you know,
00:23:30.050 --> 00:23:32.220
just doing it because and I
00:23:33.090 --> 00:23:36.090
understand that it's a
00:23:36.090 --> 00:23:37.140
discipline to prayer, but at
00:23:37.140 --> 00:23:39.100
some point we need to say,
00:23:40.150 --> 00:23:43.150
again, Lord, come and be near to
00:23:43.150 --> 00:23:46.150
me.
00:23:46.150 --> 00:23:47.070
And, you know, in--Naomi said to
00:23:47.130 --> 00:23:50.130
Ruth when she was about to go
00:23:50.130 --> 00:23:53.010
to her kinsman redeemer, Boaz,
00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:56.100
she said--she told him to do
00:23:56.100 --> 00:23:58.130
five things real quick.
00:23:58.130 --> 00:24:00.020
And I think it's the five things
00:24:00.020 --> 00:24:00.290
that fasting does.
00:24:00.290 --> 00:24:02.160
She said to her, giving good
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:04.160
advice to this young girl, Ruth,
00:24:04.160 --> 00:24:06.250
who was about to be married to
00:24:06.250 --> 00:24:08.290
Boaz.
00:24:08.290 --> 00:24:09.290
She said, number one, cleanse
00:24:09.290 --> 00:24:11.120
yourself.
00:24:11.120 --> 00:24:12.170
When you fast, it's like taking
00:24:12.170 --> 00:24:14.000
a spiritual bath.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.150
You know, James said, "Cleanse
00:24:15.150 --> 00:24:18.070
your hands, you sinners,
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.160
and purify your heart,
00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.260
you double-minded."
00:24:23.260 --> 00:24:25.180
God says, "I don't want you to
00:24:25.180 --> 00:24:26.090
have dirty hands and defiled
00:24:26.090 --> 00:24:28.150
hearts and double minds.
00:24:28.150 --> 00:24:30.180
Cleanse yourself."
00:24:30.180 --> 00:24:32.100
So when you fast, you're taking
00:24:32.100 --> 00:24:33.160
the garbage out.
00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:35.200
You're saying, "I need a fresh
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:36.140
start.
00:24:36.140 --> 00:24:37.190
I want you to get all my--I
00:24:37.190 --> 00:24:38.250
wanna come before you and I want
00:24:38.250 --> 00:24:40.280
you to just cleanse me."
00:24:40.280 --> 00:24:42.070
And then secondly, she said,
00:24:42.070 --> 00:24:43.250
"And anoint yourself with oil."
00:24:43.250 --> 00:24:46.120
So be fragrantly anointed.
00:24:46.120 --> 00:24:47.280
"Put perfume on, girl," that's
00:24:47.280 --> 00:24:49.140
what she was saying.
00:24:49.140 --> 00:24:50.180
You don't--God doesn't want--so
00:24:50.180 --> 00:24:52.190
when you fast, you're being
00:24:52.190 --> 00:24:55.100
freshly anointed.
00:24:55.100 --> 00:24:56.130
We're in a new year.
00:24:56.130 --> 00:24:57.060
We need a fresh--you can't fight
00:24:57.060 --> 00:24:58.160
today's battles off yesterday's
00:24:58.160 --> 00:25:00.040
anointing.
00:25:00.040 --> 00:25:01.080
- Mark: Ah, that's so true, so
00:25:01.080 --> 00:25:02.000
true.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:02.150
- Jentezen: So be freshly
00:25:02.150 --> 00:25:03.050
anointed.
00:25:03.050 --> 00:25:03.270
You can't fast and God not
00:25:03.270 --> 00:25:05.020
freshly anoint you so you're
00:25:05.020 --> 00:25:06.160
freshly cleansed, you're freshly
00:25:06.160 --> 00:25:08.240
anointed.
00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:09.180
Then he said--then she said,
00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:10.160
Ain't that amazing?
00:25:13.030 --> 00:25:14.290
You know, in other words, she
00:25:14.290 --> 00:25:15.290
had been mourning.
00:25:15.290 --> 00:25:16.210
She had lost her husband and she
00:25:16.210 --> 00:25:18.050
had her mourning clothes on.
00:25:18.050 --> 00:25:19.190
And he said, "It's time to put
00:25:19.190 --> 00:25:20.270
on the garment of praise.
00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:22.070
It's time to put on a new
00:25:22.070 --> 00:25:23.000
out--be fitly clothed.
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.160
Be clothed in righteousness,
00:25:24.160 --> 00:25:26.180
the robes of righteousness.
00:25:26.180 --> 00:25:28.240
Put it on."
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:29.180
And so when you are fasting, one
00:25:29.180 --> 00:25:32.050
of the things that'll happen is
00:25:32.050 --> 00:25:33.170
you'll put a new robe on.
00:25:33.170 --> 00:25:35.020
Your praise and worship will
00:25:35.020 --> 00:25:36.120
come alive.
00:25:36.120 --> 00:25:37.150
You know, if you've been going
00:25:37.150 --> 00:25:38.080
to church and just kind of
00:25:38.080 --> 00:25:39.110
clapping when they said, "Clap,"
00:25:39.110 --> 00:25:40.210
into church and you--the next
00:25:42.230 --> 00:25:44.170
day and, boy, when they're
00:25:44.170 --> 00:25:45.200
singing those songs about Jesus,
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:47.090
you'll have a new wardrobe on,
00:25:47.090 --> 00:25:49.220
the garment of praise.
00:25:49.220 --> 00:25:50.290
And then lastly, you know, she
00:25:50.290 --> 00:25:52.260
said to him or she said to her,
00:25:52.260 --> 00:25:54.210
she said, "You know, after
00:25:54.210 --> 00:25:56.120
you've done that, then bow down
00:25:56.120 --> 00:25:58.130
at his feet, uncover his feet
00:25:58.130 --> 00:25:59.250
and bow down at his feet."
00:25:59.250 --> 00:26:02.090
And there's something about
00:26:02.090 --> 00:26:03.140
worship that is an act of
00:26:03.140 --> 00:26:05.080
consecration.
00:26:05.080 --> 00:26:06.150
He's saying, "I fully commit
00:26:06.150 --> 00:26:08.240
to you.
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:09.140
I submit to you," and the most
00:26:09.140 --> 00:26:11.040
wonderful place on earth is at
00:26:11.040 --> 00:26:13.000
the feet of Jesus.
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:14.200
And the quickest way that you
00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.050
can get in the presence of God
00:26:16.050 --> 00:26:18.160
is at his feet.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:20.090
And there's something about
00:26:20.090 --> 00:26:21.080
fasting that it is humbling.
00:26:21.080 --> 00:26:23.130
It's saying, "I relinquish
00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:25.100
myself and I want to be at
00:26:25.100 --> 00:26:27.250
your feet."
00:26:27.250 --> 00:26:28.280
And then lastly, she said, "When
00:26:28.280 --> 00:26:30.160
he ask you, tell him, 'Whatever
00:26:30.210 --> 00:26:33.210
you ask me to do, I will do.'"
00:26:33.210 --> 00:26:35.290
So it's being fully compliant.
00:26:35.290 --> 00:26:37.280
When I fast, I don't come and
00:26:37.280 --> 00:26:39.180
say, "I want you to do this,
00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:41.030
God, and I'm fasting.
00:26:41.030 --> 00:26:42.060
I'm on a hunger strike and if
00:26:42.060 --> 00:26:43.090
you don't do this."
00:26:43.090 --> 00:26:44.050
I ask big.
00:26:44.050 --> 00:26:45.130
I ask God for things.
00:26:45.130 --> 00:26:46.290
But I'm really saying on a fast,
00:26:47.040 --> 00:26:50.040
"This is what I think I need but
00:26:50.040 --> 00:26:52.010
I really don't know what I need
00:26:52.010 --> 00:26:54.230
but I'm willing to put it before
00:26:54.230 --> 00:26:56.250
you and say, "Not my will but
00:26:56.250 --> 00:26:58.170
thine be done."
00:26:58.170 --> 00:27:00.110
I'll only want what you want me
00:27:00.110 --> 00:27:01.150
to have."
00:27:01.150 --> 00:27:02.090
- Mark: Beautiful.
00:27:02.090 --> 00:27:03.010
- Jentezen: And that's what
00:27:03.010 --> 00:27:03.210
fasting will do for you.
00:27:03.210 --> 00:27:04.180
- Mark: Oh, that's fabulous.
00:27:04.180 --> 00:27:06.050
You know, I've now participated
00:27:06.050 --> 00:27:08.150
through 3 years in the fasting
00:27:08.150 --> 00:27:10.060
at Free Chapel.
00:27:10.060 --> 00:27:11.210
I mean, fasting has been a part
00:27:11.210 --> 00:27:12.280
of my life but the real
00:27:12.280 --> 00:27:14.070
intensity of it at Free Chapel,
00:27:14.250 --> 00:27:17.250
this is--I now finish the third
00:27:17.250 --> 00:27:19.280
year with the fasting there.
00:27:19.280 --> 00:27:22.020
And I'll tell you, it's been a
00:27:22.020 --> 00:27:24.050
tremendous blessing in my life.
00:27:24.050 --> 00:27:26.050
I've never experienced it at
00:27:26.050 --> 00:27:28.170
the level of intensity and, of
00:27:28.170 --> 00:27:30.050
course, I wrote a whole book
00:27:30.050 --> 00:27:31.150
during one of the fasts.
00:27:31.150 --> 00:27:32.270
And it poured out.
00:27:32.270 --> 00:27:34.170
I've struggled with books and
00:27:34.170 --> 00:27:36.080
that book, while I was fasting,
00:27:36.080 --> 00:27:37.260
I couldn't--Jentezen, I almost
00:27:37.260 --> 00:27:40.010
couldn't write fast enough.
00:27:40.010 --> 00:27:41.010
It was like it was just pouring
00:27:41.010 --> 00:27:41.280
out of me.
00:27:41.280 --> 00:27:42.270
And I love the fast and I love
00:27:42.270 --> 00:27:45.090
what you've--how you've touched
00:27:45.090 --> 00:27:47.000
so many lives with the summons
00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.040
to fasting.
00:27:49.040 --> 00:27:50.160
It's an ancient discipline, an
00:27:50.160 --> 00:27:52.100
ancient pathway to holiness, and
00:27:52.230 --> 00:27:55.230
you've really awakened a new
00:27:55.230 --> 00:27:57.070
generation for it.
00:27:57.070 --> 00:27:58.140
- Jentezen: You know, back to
00:27:58.140 --> 00:27:59.080
your question.
00:27:59.080 --> 00:28:00.180
What will fasting do.
00:28:00.180 --> 00:28:02.210
Here's the bottom line on it and
00:28:02.210 --> 00:28:04.290
I'll close with this.
00:28:04.290 --> 00:28:06.240
But here's the bottom line is he
00:28:07.040 --> 00:28:10.040
said in three different places
00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:11.160
in Matthew 6, "When you pray in
00:28:11.160 --> 00:28:13.160
secret, I'll reward you openly.
00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:16.060
When you give your charitable
00:28:16.060 --> 00:28:18.070
deeds secretly--don't do it
00:28:18.070 --> 00:28:20.040
before people, do it secretly,
00:28:20.040 --> 00:28:22.020
I'll reward you openly.
00:28:22.020 --> 00:28:24.190
And when you fast secretly,
00:28:24.190 --> 00:28:25.260
I'll reward you openly."
00:28:25.260 --> 00:28:27.280
Point is this.
00:28:27.280 --> 00:28:28.240
God says, "I can't keep a
00:28:28.240 --> 00:28:29.220
secret.
00:28:29.220 --> 00:28:32.110
And any time I see you win in
00:28:32.110 --> 00:28:33.190
secret, I will reward you
00:28:33.190 --> 00:28:36.110
openly."
00:28:36.110 --> 00:28:37.100
But everybody thinks
00:28:37.100 --> 00:28:38.160
Samson--Samson thought his
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:39.280
strength was in his ability to
00:28:39.280 --> 00:28:42.280
fight.
00:28:42.280 --> 00:28:43.220
His strength, his secret to
00:28:44.050 --> 00:28:47.050
his--the secret source of power
00:28:47.050 --> 00:28:49.110
was his secret vow.
00:28:49.110 --> 00:28:51.100
It's what he vowed to God and
00:28:51.100 --> 00:28:52.210
kept secret--
00:28:52.210 --> 00:28:53.170
- Mark: The Nazirite.
00:28:53.170 --> 00:28:54.050
- Jentezen: Between him and
00:28:54.050 --> 00:28:54.250
God.
00:28:54.250 --> 00:28:55.150
Yeah, he said, "I won't cut my
00:28:55.150 --> 00:28:56.060
hair."
00:28:56.060 --> 00:28:57.130
And when we win and do things,
00:28:57.130 --> 00:28:59.240
you know, it's a public fast
00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:01.140
we're on but we're fasting
00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:02.200
secretly.
00:29:02.200 --> 00:29:04.100
We don't go around--meaning we
00:29:04.100 --> 00:29:05.100
don't go around announcing it
00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:06.150
and are sad and anything, you
00:29:06.150 --> 00:29:07.200
know.
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.120
We're doing it unto the Lord.
00:29:08.120 --> 00:29:09.220
And God says, "You'll never do
00:29:09.220 --> 00:29:11.100
anything--" God just can't keep
00:29:11.100 --> 00:29:12.240
a good secret.
00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:13.190
- Mark: Amen.
00:29:13.190 --> 00:29:14.210
Beautiful.
00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:15.130
- Jentezen: And he says, "I'll
00:29:15.130 --> 00:29:16.050
go open and I'll go public.
00:29:16.050 --> 00:29:18.290
If you have private discipline,
00:29:18.290 --> 00:29:21.170
I'll give you public rewards."
00:29:21.170 --> 00:29:23.150
- Mark: Praise God.
00:29:23.150 --> 00:29:24.060
I love it, I love it.
00:29:24.060 --> 00:29:25.170
Beautiful.
00:29:25.170 --> 00:29:26.080
- Jentezen: And he's done that
00:29:26.080 --> 00:29:27.030
for us, I know that.
00:29:27.030 --> 00:29:27.230
And I have unexplainable
00:29:27.230 --> 00:29:29.070
blessings that have hit our
00:29:29.070 --> 00:29:30.280
church.
00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:31.260
You were part of one last year,
00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:34.190
you know, with the Spartanburg
00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:36.030
campus that God gave us during
00:29:36.030 --> 00:29:38.010
that fast.
00:29:38.010 --> 00:29:39.090
You know, the connection
00:29:39.090 --> 00:29:40.190
happened and I could go on and
00:29:40.190 --> 00:29:41.240
on and, even in my family, when
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:43.260
you begin to fast and pray,
00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:46.200
things happen that I cannot
00:29:46.200 --> 00:29:49.050
explain it but I'm telling you,
00:29:49.050 --> 00:29:50.260
doors open.
00:29:50.260 --> 00:29:52.110
- Mark: Supernatural.
00:29:52.110 --> 00:29:53.150
- Jentezen: It is.
00:29:53.150 --> 00:29:54.040
- Mark: It is.
00:29:54.040 --> 00:29:54.240
- Jentezen: It really is.
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:55.130
- Mark: Thank you, Jentezen.
00:29:55.130 --> 00:29:56.040
Thank you so much.
00:29:56.040 --> 00:29:56.210
Listen, you're gonna move back
00:29:56.210 --> 00:29:57.170
over there for a moment.
00:29:57.170 --> 00:29:58.160
What are you gonna choose out of
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.030
here this time?
00:30:00.030 --> 00:30:00.290
- Jentezen: I'm gonna do,
00:30:00.290 --> 00:30:02.050
"There's Something About That
00:30:02.050 --> 00:30:03.000
Name," and, again, you can come
00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:04.180
over and sing at any time you
00:30:04.180 --> 00:30:05.260
feel the leading.
00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:07.130
- Mark: I'll be right there.
00:30:07.130 --> 00:30:08.050
I'll be right there.
00:30:08.050 --> 00:30:10.160
Jentezen Franklin and some of
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:12.040
the music team from Free Chapel,
00:30:12.040 --> 00:30:14.120
out of his beautiful new CD and
00:30:14.120 --> 00:30:17.040
one of my favorites, "There's
00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:19.190
[music]
00:30:30.120 --> 00:30:37.230
[music]
00:30:37.230 --> 00:30:45.100
[music]
00:30:45.120 --> 00:30:52.230
[music]
00:30:52.230 --> 00:31:00.120
[music]
00:31:00.140 --> 00:31:07.250
[music]
00:31:07.250 --> 00:31:15.120
[music]
00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:22.250
[music]
00:31:22.250 --> 00:31:30.120
[music]
00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:37.250
[music]
00:31:37.250 --> 00:31:45.120
[music]
00:31:45.140 --> 00:31:52.250
[music]
00:31:52.250 --> 00:32:00.140
[music]
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:07.270
[music]
00:32:07.270 --> 00:32:15.140
[music]
00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:22.270
[music]
00:32:22.270 --> 00:32:30.140
[music]
00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:37.270
[music]
00:32:37.270 --> 00:32:45.140
[music]
00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:52.270
[music]
00:32:52.270 --> 00:33:00.160
[music]
00:33:00.180 --> 00:33:07.290
[music]
00:33:07.290 --> 00:33:15.160
[music]
00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:22.290
[music]
00:33:22.290 --> 00:33:30.160
[music]
00:33:30.180 --> 00:33:37.290
[music]
00:33:37.290 --> 00:33:45.160
[music]
00:33:45.180 --> 00:33:52.290
[music]
00:33:52.290 --> 00:34:00.180
[music]
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:11.230
[audience applauding]
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- Mark: "Like the fragrance
00:34:20.240 --> 00:34:22.180
after the rain," there is,
00:34:22.180 --> 00:34:24.110
indeed, just something about
00:34:24.110 --> 00:34:26.090
that name.
00:34:26.090 --> 00:34:26.290
That's the one and only
00:34:26.290 --> 00:34:28.050
Jentezen Franklin from his new
00:34:28.050 --> 00:34:30.130
CD, "I Hear the Sound:
00:34:30.130 --> 00:34:31.240
Songs That Matter."
00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:33.040
I know you'll wanna get it.
00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:33.290
And right now, I want you to sit
00:34:33.290 --> 00:34:36.000
favorite guests and one of my
00:34:38.110 --> 00:34:39.220
great friends, somebody whose
00:34:39.220 --> 00:34:41.240
intellect and creativity and
00:34:41.240 --> 00:34:43.080
walk with God I've admired for
00:34:43.080 --> 00:34:44.190
some time, and a friend of mine.
00:34:44.190 --> 00:34:46.090
- Erwin McManus: It's so good
00:34:48.290 --> 00:34:49.200
to see you.
00:34:49.200 --> 00:34:50.050
- Mark: So glad you're here.
00:34:50.050 --> 00:34:50.260
Thank you for being here.
00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:51.240
- Erwin: I feel at a huge
00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:53.150
deficit, coming on after
00:34:53.150 --> 00:34:54.280
Jentezen.
00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:55.230
I mean, I--
00:34:55.230 --> 00:34:56.170
- Mark: Oh, we can do a duet,
00:34:56.170 --> 00:34:57.090
you and I.
00:34:57.090 --> 00:34:58.020
- Erwin: I forgot my sax,
00:34:58.020 --> 00:34:59.070
my piano, my bass, my drums.
00:34:59.100 --> 00:35:02.120
I forgot my talent.
00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:03.190
- Mark: Isn't that infuriating?
00:35:03.190 --> 00:35:05.160
Yes, I know what you mean.
00:35:05.160 --> 00:35:06.130
- Erwin: And that hair.
00:35:06.130 --> 00:35:07.120
- Mark: Yeah.
00:35:07.120 --> 00:35:08.080
- Erwin: I know.
00:35:08.080 --> 00:35:09.100
- Mark: Well, you look good,
00:35:09.100 --> 00:35:10.010
though, man.
00:35:10.010 --> 00:35:10.240
You look wonderful.
00:35:10.240 --> 00:35:11.180
- Erwin: Oh, thanks.
00:35:11.180 --> 00:35:12.250
- Mark: Great to see you.
00:35:12.250 --> 00:35:13.150
Listen, Erwin is the founder of
00:35:13.150 --> 00:35:15.020
Mosaic in Los Angeles,
00:35:15.020 --> 00:35:16.180
California.
00:35:16.180 --> 00:35:17.160
And the author, among other
00:35:17.160 --> 00:35:18.250
things, of "The Artisan Soul,"
00:35:18.250 --> 00:35:21.040
a terrific book.
00:35:21.040 --> 00:35:23.000
I wanna talk to you about this
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.090
book some and then I wanna talk
00:35:24.090 --> 00:35:25.220
to you about Erwin McManus.
00:35:25.220 --> 00:35:27.020
Why did you--what made you write
00:35:27.020 --> 00:35:29.060
this book?
00:35:29.060 --> 00:35:29.270
Why did you write "The Artisan
00:35:29.270 --> 00:35:30.290
Soul"?
00:35:30.290 --> 00:35:31.250
It's a very different book for a
00:35:31.250 --> 00:35:32.270
Christian pastor.
00:35:32.270 --> 00:35:34.040
- Erwin: It is.
00:35:34.040 --> 00:35:35.190
I used to write a lot of books
00:35:35.190 --> 00:35:36.290
and I stopped for about 5 or 6
00:35:36.290 --> 00:35:38.070
years.
00:35:38.070 --> 00:35:39.080
And my wife kept asking me to
00:35:39.080 --> 00:35:41.060
write a book.
00:35:41.060 --> 00:35:42.030
And she felt like it's something
00:35:42.030 --> 00:35:43.140
I was supposed to be doing with
00:35:43.140 --> 00:35:44.220
my life and I kind of tabled it
00:35:44.220 --> 00:35:46.000
for a long time.
00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:47.070
And, frankly, living in Los
00:35:47.070 --> 00:35:49.000
Angeles, you have so many people
00:35:49.000 --> 00:35:50.130
who come from all over the world
00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:51.170
with huge dreams and huge
00:35:51.170 --> 00:35:53.090
ambitions and all this
00:35:53.090 --> 00:35:54.170
aspiration and they come from
00:35:54.170 --> 00:35:56.090
all over the world but they're
00:35:56.090 --> 00:35:57.280
the most talented person where
00:35:57.280 --> 00:35:59.120
they're from.
00:35:59.120 --> 00:36:00.180
Then they come to a city where
00:36:00.180 --> 00:36:02.020
their talent is matched by
00:36:02.020 --> 00:36:03.260
10.000 other people.
00:36:03.260 --> 00:36:05.160
And I watched their dreams
00:36:05.160 --> 00:36:07.110
collapse, their worlds fall
00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.210
apart, and I just saw life just
00:36:09.010 --> 00:36:12.010
drain out of people.
00:36:12.010 --> 00:36:13.290
And I began realizing that
00:36:13.290 --> 00:36:15.110
there's a small percentage of
00:36:15.110 --> 00:36:16.180
people who actually believe that
00:36:16.180 --> 00:36:17.200
they're creative but most people
00:36:17.200 --> 00:36:19.100
do not believe they're creative.
00:36:19.100 --> 00:36:21.150
Most people would say, "Oh, I
00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:23.050
admire creativity or I admire
00:36:23.050 --> 00:36:25.000
artistic people."
00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:26.200
When I was writing this book, my
00:36:26.200 --> 00:36:27.280
wife said, "What's it called?"
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:29.050
And I told her it was called
00:36:29.050 --> 00:36:30.040
"The Artisan Soul," and she
00:36:30.040 --> 00:36:31.150
said, "Oh great, a book for
00:36:31.150 --> 00:36:33.170
people like you but not people
00:36:33.170 --> 00:36:35.030
like me."
00:36:35.030 --> 00:36:36.140
And when she said that, it made
00:36:36.140 --> 00:36:37.230
me so angry, I said, "No, this
00:36:37.230 --> 00:36:38.200
book is for people like you who
00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:40.050
believe the lie that only some
00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:42.230
people are creative."
00:36:42.230 --> 00:36:44.030
See, if we're created by God,
00:36:44.030 --> 00:36:46.180
who is creative, then we are a
00:36:46.180 --> 00:36:49.120
reflection of his creativity.
00:36:49.120 --> 00:36:51.230
We're created in the image and
00:36:51.230 --> 00:36:52.200
likeness of God.
00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:53.210
I wrote this book because I
00:36:53.210 --> 00:36:54.210
think we have a wrong
00:36:54.210 --> 00:36:55.150
understanding of being human.
00:36:55.150 --> 00:36:57.110
We don't understand that human
00:36:57.110 --> 00:36:59.030
beings are created to create.
00:36:59.030 --> 00:37:01.020
We're imagined to imagine.
00:37:01.020 --> 00:37:03.070
That our lives are supposed to
00:37:03.070 --> 00:37:05.080
be a creative enterprise.
00:37:05.080 --> 00:37:08.030
That we are works of art and
00:37:08.030 --> 00:37:09.070
artists at work.
00:37:09.070 --> 00:37:10.210
And so I wrote this because I
00:37:10.210 --> 00:37:12.000
felt like we focus so much on
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:13.160
sin, so much on our weaknesses,
00:37:13.160 --> 00:37:16.070
so much on everything that's
00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:17.180
wrong with being human, and we
00:37:17.180 --> 00:37:19.200
forget that God put his Spirit
00:37:19.200 --> 00:37:21.040
in us, he put his image in us,
00:37:21.040 --> 00:37:22.190
and every time a human being
00:37:22.190 --> 00:37:24.060
imagines something and then does
00:37:24.060 --> 00:37:25.280
it, that's a creative act.
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:27.140
- Mark: I love this book
00:37:27.140 --> 00:37:28.290
because I thought it made clear
00:37:28.290 --> 00:37:30.110
the distinction between talent,
00:37:30.110 --> 00:37:32.290
okay, somebody that can play the
00:37:32.290 --> 00:37:34.060
saxophone or paint a great
00:37:34.060 --> 00:37:36.000
picture, and the inner
00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:38.000
creativity that is in every
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.120
single person, and that's a very
00:37:40.120 --> 00:37:42.080
sharp distinction, isn't it?
00:37:42.080 --> 00:37:44.210
- Erwin: It is.
00:37:44.210 --> 00:37:45.140
It's--one of the things I have
00:37:45.140 --> 00:37:46.220
done as I've traveled the world
00:37:46.220 --> 00:37:48.000
is I've asked people, "How many
00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:48.290
of you consider yourself
00:37:48.290 --> 00:37:49.230
creative?"
00:37:49.230 --> 00:37:51.000
Maybe 1% of people, top: 5%.
00:37:51.010 --> 00:37:54.010
And so I'll throw a different
00:37:54.010 --> 00:37:55.180
question.
00:37:55.180 --> 00:37:56.080
I'll say, "How many of you would
00:37:56.080 --> 00:37:57.160
consider yourself a linguistic
00:37:57.160 --> 00:37:58.220
savant?"
00:37:58.220 --> 00:37:59.180
Now you actually are
00:37:59.180 --> 00:38:00.160
a linguistic savant.
00:38:00.160 --> 00:38:02.060
But I would say maybe 1 out of
00:38:02.060 --> 00:38:04.180
1.000 people will say they're
00:38:04.180 --> 00:38:05.240
a linguistic savant.
00:38:05.240 --> 00:38:07.060
But the truth is that everyone
00:38:07.060 --> 00:38:09.150
who learned English learned it
00:38:09.150 --> 00:38:11.040
when they were 18 months old, 2
00:38:11.040 --> 00:38:12.230
years old.
00:38:12.230 --> 00:38:13.230
You learned how to speak one of
00:38:13.230 --> 00:38:14.290
the most difficult languages in
00:38:14.290 --> 00:38:15.210
the world when you couldn't even
00:38:15.210 --> 00:38:16.280
walk, talk, change your own
00:38:16.280 --> 00:38:18.240
diaper, or feed yourself.
00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:21.040
And if they had moved you from
00:38:21.040 --> 00:38:22.160
the United States to Tokyo,
00:38:22.160 --> 00:38:25.060
you'd have learned Japanese.
00:38:25.060 --> 00:38:26.230
If they had moved you to the
00:38:26.230 --> 00:38:27.130
Philippines, you'd have learned
00:38:27.130 --> 00:38:28.050
Tagalog.
00:38:28.050 --> 00:38:28.240
If they'd moved you to Germany,
00:38:28.240 --> 00:38:29.180
you'd have learned German.
00:38:29.180 --> 00:38:30.260
If they'd moved you to England,
00:38:30.260 --> 00:38:31.180
you would have finally learned
00:38:31.180 --> 00:38:32.180
how to speak English.
00:38:32.180 --> 00:38:33.120
- Mark: Learned real English.
00:38:33.120 --> 00:38:34.160
- Erwin: That's right.
00:38:34.160 --> 00:38:35.070
Because the human being is so
00:38:35.070 --> 00:38:36.120
creative, has such huge capacity
00:38:36.120 --> 00:38:38.180
that every human being is a
00:38:38.180 --> 00:38:40.020
linguistic savant.
00:38:40.020 --> 00:38:41.080
But what happens is that this
00:38:41.080 --> 00:38:42.270
creative essence that's in all
00:38:42.270 --> 00:38:44.060
of us when we're children,
00:38:44.060 --> 00:38:45.190
because we learn how to conform.
00:38:47.210 --> 00:38:49.070
We learn how to become
00:38:49.070 --> 00:38:50.170
standardized.
00:38:50.170 --> 00:38:51.140
We learn how to become like
00:38:51.140 --> 00:38:52.070
everyone else.
00:38:52.070 --> 00:38:53.110
And I love the passage where it
00:38:53.110 --> 00:38:54.230
says, "Do not conform to
00:38:54.230 --> 00:38:56.010
the pattern of this world."
00:38:56.010 --> 00:38:57.100
See, I love flipping that over
00:38:57.100 --> 00:38:58.230
and going, "See, the world
00:38:58.230 --> 00:39:00.020
will conform you."
00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:01.260
God actually unleashes you,
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:04.280
"but be transformed by
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:06.080
the renewing of your minds."
00:39:06.080 --> 00:39:07.130
I love the fact that
00:39:07.130 --> 00:39:08.080
when you connect to God,
00:39:08.080 --> 00:39:09.030
You are now created.
00:39:11.150 --> 00:39:14.020
You are recreated and you become
00:39:14.020 --> 00:39:15.210
a creative human being.
00:39:15.210 --> 00:39:16.240
- Mark: Praise God.
00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:17.260
I always--when I'm interviewed
00:39:17.260 --> 00:39:20.100
about my books, there's
00:39:20.100 --> 00:39:21.130
something that always makes me
00:39:21.130 --> 00:39:22.080
nervous when somebody asks me
00:39:22.080 --> 00:39:23.030
about a passage.
00:39:23.030 --> 00:39:24.010
I'm always afraid I won't be
00:39:24.010 --> 00:39:25.040
able to remember.
00:39:25.040 --> 00:39:25.250
- Erwin: Yeah, I always tell
00:39:25.250 --> 00:39:26.160
'em, "I don't have the book
00:39:26.160 --> 00:39:27.060
memorized.
00:39:27.060 --> 00:39:27.170
I haven't even read it."
00:39:27.170 --> 00:39:28.050
No, no.
00:39:28.050 --> 00:39:29.020
- Mark: Well, I read it.
00:39:29.020 --> 00:39:29.290
I read it and there was
00:39:29.290 --> 00:39:31.160
a passage in it I found very
00:39:31.160 --> 00:39:33.200
intriguing and I just wanna ask
00:39:33.200 --> 00:39:35.190
you about it.
00:39:35.190 --> 00:39:36.200
You talked about when you took
00:39:36.200 --> 00:39:37.260
your degree in art in college
00:39:37.260 --> 00:39:40.030
and they would force you to use
00:39:40.030 --> 00:39:42.180
a medium that you weren't used
00:39:42.180 --> 00:39:45.010
to.
00:39:45.010 --> 00:39:45.190
And you talked about the
00:39:45.190 --> 00:39:46.150
limiting factor of shifting to a
00:39:46.250 --> 00:39:49.250
new medium.
00:39:49.250 --> 00:39:51.060
And I found that intriguing in
00:39:51.060 --> 00:39:53.050
talking about how you had to
00:39:53.050 --> 00:39:54.090
press yourself to move beyond
00:39:54.090 --> 00:39:56.000
the limits of your lack of
00:39:56.000 --> 00:39:58.090
facility with that medium.
00:39:58.090 --> 00:40:00.110
And I found that very
00:40:00.110 --> 00:40:01.120
interesting.
00:40:01.120 --> 00:40:02.080
- Erwin: Well, I think one of
00:40:02.080 --> 00:40:02.290
the misconceptions is that to be
00:40:02.290 --> 00:40:04.090
creative means that you have no
00:40:04.090 --> 00:40:05.100
boundaries.
00:40:05.100 --> 00:40:06.190
But the reality is all
00:40:06.190 --> 00:40:07.250
creativity has boundaries.
00:40:07.250 --> 00:40:09.270
There are only three primary
00:40:09.270 --> 00:40:11.010
colors.
00:40:11.010 --> 00:40:12.080
There are only nine digits.
00:40:12.080 --> 00:40:14.200
There are only 12 notes on the
00:40:14.200 --> 00:40:16.210
piano.
00:40:16.210 --> 00:40:17.110
When Jentezen is playing the
00:40:17.110 --> 00:40:18.150
sax, there's--he's only playing
00:40:18.150 --> 00:40:19.200
12 notes.
00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:20.120
And he'll never be so creative
00:40:20.120 --> 00:40:23.090
he'll invent the 13th note.
00:40:23.090 --> 00:40:25.180
But human beings can be so
00:40:25.180 --> 00:40:27.170
creative they can play those 12
00:40:27.170 --> 00:40:28.270
notes in a way that they have
00:40:28.270 --> 00:40:30.060
never been played before.
00:40:30.060 --> 00:40:32.220
I think the reality is whenever
00:40:32.220 --> 00:40:34.120
you're moving from one genre to
00:40:34.120 --> 00:40:35.040
another, and you have to learn
00:40:35.040 --> 00:40:37.190
the rules of the game.
00:40:37.190 --> 00:40:39.000
And you can't allow the
00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:40.170
limitations to be an excuse
00:40:40.170 --> 00:40:43.170
to limit you.
00:40:43.170 --> 00:40:44.190
The boundaries give you the
00:40:44.190 --> 00:40:47.040
context for the limitless.
00:40:47.230 --> 00:40:50.230
And, you know, so we're human
00:40:50.230 --> 00:40:52.270
beings and we have so many
00:40:52.270 --> 00:40:55.030
limitations and yet the reality
00:40:55.030 --> 00:40:56.250
is that we have this incredible
00:40:56.250 --> 00:40:59.070
gift called the imagination.
00:40:59.070 --> 00:41:00.230
We can dream things we've never
00:41:00.230 --> 00:41:02.120
dreamed, we can become someone
00:41:02.120 --> 00:41:03.190
we've never become.
00:41:03.190 --> 00:41:05.070
We can do things we've never
00:41:05.070 --> 00:41:05.280
done.
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:06.170
We can go places we've never
00:41:06.170 --> 00:41:07.070
been.
00:41:07.070 --> 00:41:08.140
Only human beings can do that.
00:41:08.140 --> 00:41:09.280
Gazelles can't do that.
00:41:09.280 --> 00:41:10.220
Beavers can't do that.
00:41:10.220 --> 00:41:11.220
Squirrels can't do that.
00:41:11.220 --> 00:41:12.270
Human beings imagine a future
00:41:12.270 --> 00:41:15.070
and then we create it.
00:41:15.070 --> 00:41:16.060
And that's one of the, I think,
00:41:16.060 --> 00:41:17.110
things that is so important in
00:41:17.110 --> 00:41:18.140
the book, is that in the same
00:41:18.140 --> 00:41:20.040
way that bees create hives
00:41:20.040 --> 00:41:22.000
and ants create colonies,
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:23.020
humans create futures.
00:41:23.020 --> 00:41:25.060
And that this is a part of the
00:41:25.060 --> 00:41:27.090
human process.
00:41:27.090 --> 00:41:29.010
We actually begin to dream, to
00:41:29.010 --> 00:41:30.120
imagine, have visions of the
00:41:30.120 --> 00:41:32.060
future.
00:41:32.060 --> 00:41:33.090
And then if we find the courage
00:41:33.090 --> 00:41:35.030
and passion to do it, we will
00:41:35.030 --> 00:41:36.230
actually create the future
00:41:36.230 --> 00:41:38.030
that's in our imagination.
00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:39.090
- Mark: You reminded me,
00:41:39.090 --> 00:41:40.130
I remember a quote by
00:41:40.130 --> 00:41:42.080
Oswald Chambers and it's quite
00:41:42.080 --> 00:41:44.170
a shocking quote, actually.
00:41:44.170 --> 00:41:46.070
He said, "Only after our
00:41:46.070 --> 00:41:48.190
salvation in the Holy Spirit,
00:41:48.190 --> 00:41:50.210
the greatest gift of God to
00:41:50.210 --> 00:41:52.200
humanity, is imagination."
00:41:52.200 --> 00:41:54.160
- Erwin: Absolutely.
00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:55.160
- Mark: That's a remarkable
00:41:55.160 --> 00:41:56.210
statement, isn't it?
00:41:56.210 --> 00:41:57.220
- Erwin: And you--when I became
00:41:57.220 --> 00:41:59.000
a follower of Christ, I was told
00:41:59.000 --> 00:41:59.290
not to use my imagination.
00:41:59.290 --> 00:42:01.070
- Mark: Hmm.
00:42:01.070 --> 00:42:02.020
- Erwin: They could say, "No,
00:42:02.020 --> 00:42:03.030
you're not supposed to do that
00:42:03.030 --> 00:42:03.290
because that's New Age."
00:42:03.290 --> 00:42:05.080
I'd never even heard of New Age
00:42:05.080 --> 00:42:06.090
but they kept telling me it was
00:42:06.090 --> 00:42:07.100
New Age.
00:42:07.100 --> 00:42:08.110
And I thought, "How could this
00:42:08.110 --> 00:42:09.040
be wrong when God gave us the
00:42:09.040 --> 00:42:10.270
imagination?"
00:42:10.270 --> 00:42:11.240
I had this Chinese engineer come
00:42:12.010 --> 00:42:15.010
up to me and he said, "I'm an
00:42:15.010 --> 00:42:16.210
atheist and you keep talking
00:42:16.210 --> 00:42:17.280
about hearing the voice of God.
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.040
What does God's voice sound
00:42:19.040 --> 00:42:20.110
like?"
00:42:20.110 --> 00:42:21.080
And I said, "Well, you're an
00:42:21.080 --> 00:42:22.170
atheist, right?"
00:42:22.170 --> 00:42:23.090
He said, "Yes."
00:42:23.090 --> 00:42:23.270
"Well, it doesn't sound like
00:42:23.270 --> 00:42:24.170
anything 'cause you're an
00:42:24.170 --> 00:42:25.090
atheist so he doesn't exist."
00:42:25.090 --> 00:42:26.050
- Mark: I love it.
00:42:26.050 --> 00:42:26.280
- Erwin: He goes, "What does it
00:42:26.280 --> 00:42:28.160
sound like to you?"
00:42:28.160 --> 00:42:30.200
And I told him, I said, "You
00:42:30.200 --> 00:42:31.250
ever had all these voices in
00:42:31.250 --> 00:42:33.280
your head?
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:34.250
Voices, you don't even know how
00:42:34.250 --> 00:42:36.000
they got there?
00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:37.090
Some voices that tell you, 'Yes,
00:42:37.090 --> 00:42:38.180
you can,' other voices that,
00:42:38.180 --> 00:42:39.190
'No, you can't'?"
00:42:39.190 --> 00:42:40.200
He goes, "Yeah."
00:42:40.200 --> 00:42:41.120
And I said, "Do you have a voice
00:42:41.120 --> 00:42:42.080
inside your head, it's like a
00:42:42.080 --> 00:42:43.010
parasite that eats away at your
00:42:43.010 --> 00:42:44.010
brain, saying, 'There is a God,
00:42:44.010 --> 00:42:45.090
there is a God.'
00:42:45.090 --> 00:42:46.190
Even though you know there is no
00:42:46.190 --> 00:42:47.110
God, you can't shut that little
00:42:47.110 --> 00:42:48.100
voice off.
00:42:48.100 --> 00:42:49.180
You don't even know how it got
00:42:49.180 --> 00:42:50.090
there 'cause inside of your
00:42:50.090 --> 00:42:50.290
brain, all those voices are
00:42:50.290 --> 00:42:52.010
supposed to be you.
00:42:52.010 --> 00:42:53.190
Is it like a parasite, eating
00:42:53.190 --> 00:42:54.150
away at your head?"
00:42:54.150 --> 00:42:55.150
And he goes, "Yes!
00:42:55.150 --> 00:42:56.140
There's a parasite in my head
00:42:56.140 --> 00:42:57.140
that keeps saying,
00:42:57.140 --> 00:42:58.030
'There's a God.'"
00:42:58.030 --> 00:42:58.250
I said, "See, that's God."
00:42:58.250 --> 00:43:00.270
And, see, I am convinced
00:43:01.190 --> 00:43:04.190
that the imagination
00:43:04.190 --> 00:43:05.290
is God's playground.
00:43:05.290 --> 00:43:07.030
That he gave us the imagination
00:43:07.030 --> 00:43:08.250
because there's no place else
00:43:08.250 --> 00:43:10.030
that he could meet us, this
00:43:10.030 --> 00:43:11.170
God who was all powerful,
00:43:11.170 --> 00:43:12.240
all present, all knowing.
00:43:12.240 --> 00:43:14.070
This God who is beyond time
00:43:14.070 --> 00:43:15.240
and space.
00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:16.280
How in the world could he meet
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:18.000
us anywhere else except for
00:43:18.000 --> 00:43:19.120
this material that we know is
00:43:19.120 --> 00:43:20.230
the imagination?
00:43:20.230 --> 00:43:22.010
- Mark: Wow.
00:43:22.010 --> 00:43:23.010
All right, let's go back to that
00:43:23.010 --> 00:43:23.250
one statement.
00:43:23.250 --> 00:43:24.230
You're talking about the rules
00:43:24.230 --> 00:43:26.260
of the medium, that there's--the
00:43:26.260 --> 00:43:28.240
limits, that these limits of the
00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:30.200
medium.
00:43:30.200 --> 00:43:31.110
That being true, then, life and
00:43:31.110 --> 00:43:33.280
art collide when we don't have
00:43:33.280 --> 00:43:36.140
any limits on our lives, right?
00:43:36.140 --> 00:43:39.000
So say, for example, a guy
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:40.290
like--take Mozart who probably
00:43:40.290 --> 00:43:43.080
was as great--had as great an
00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:45.130
imagination by music as
00:43:45.130 --> 00:43:46.180
possible, but his life wouldn't
00:43:46.180 --> 00:43:48.220
accept the limits and it
00:43:48.220 --> 00:43:49.290
corrupted his art, which some
00:43:49.290 --> 00:43:52.020
people say, "Well, he's so--he
00:43:52.020 --> 00:43:52.240
was so creative," but what might
00:43:52.240 --> 00:43:54.110
he have created if he had lived
00:43:54.110 --> 00:43:56.210
beyond the age that he lived in
00:43:56.210 --> 00:43:57.230
so stoned out of his skull.
00:43:57.230 --> 00:44:00.070
What might he--what symphony did
00:44:00.070 --> 00:44:01.240
we miss because he wouldn't
00:44:01.240 --> 00:44:03.100
accept the limits?
00:44:03.100 --> 00:44:04.150
- Erwin: Absolutely.
00:44:04.150 --> 00:44:05.090
And the reality is, the material
00:44:05.090 --> 00:44:06.220
from which we create is our
00:44:06.220 --> 00:44:08.050
soul.
00:44:08.050 --> 00:44:10.060
Everything that humans create is
00:44:10.060 --> 00:44:12.120
an extension of the human
00:44:12.120 --> 00:44:14.070
spirit.
00:44:14.070 --> 00:44:15.050
The furniture that you see, the
00:44:15.050 --> 00:44:17.000
glass, the books, everything,
00:44:17.000 --> 00:44:19.050
the cameras, the lights,
00:44:19.050 --> 00:44:20.250
everything has been created by
00:44:20.250 --> 00:44:21.220
human being actually began in
00:44:21.220 --> 00:44:23.000
the human imagination.
00:44:23.000 --> 00:44:24.160
And so everything that we see in
00:44:24.160 --> 00:44:26.100
the material world is actually
00:44:26.100 --> 00:44:27.240
the externalization
00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:29.080
of the human imagination.
00:44:29.080 --> 00:44:32.000
And so if you do not take care
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:33.140
of your soul, then your soul
00:44:33.140 --> 00:44:36.050
informs your imagination and
00:44:36.050 --> 00:44:37.210
you begin to have dark thoughts
00:44:37.210 --> 00:44:39.200
and dark universes and you begin
00:44:39.200 --> 00:44:41.030
to create a world that's
00:44:41.030 --> 00:44:42.130
filled with pain and brokenness
00:44:42.130 --> 00:44:43.120
and darkness.
00:44:43.120 --> 00:44:44.140
And I'm so convinced that's
00:44:44.140 --> 00:44:46.040
why the Scriptures tell us to
00:44:46.040 --> 00:44:47.010
guard our hearts, because what's
00:44:47.010 --> 00:44:48.270
in our hearts is the material
00:44:48.270 --> 00:44:50.170
from which we will create
00:44:50.170 --> 00:44:51.200
the future that humanity
00:44:51.200 --> 00:44:53.180
will have to deal with.
00:44:53.180 --> 00:44:54.240
And I love the fact,
00:44:54.240 --> 00:44:56.130
though, that God can speak
00:44:56.130 --> 00:44:58.190
into our lives and take us
00:44:58.190 --> 00:45:00.260
beyond our capacity,
00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:02.120
beyond our imagination.
00:45:02.120 --> 00:45:03.140
You know, I can't do what
00:45:03.140 --> 00:45:05.130
Jentezen does because I never
00:45:05.130 --> 00:45:06.160
had the discipline to learn
00:45:06.160 --> 00:45:08.050
what Jentezen learned.
00:45:08.050 --> 00:45:09.260
And a lot of people wanna play
00:45:09.260 --> 00:45:11.010
like Mozart but they don't wanna
00:45:11.010 --> 00:45:12.120
discipline their lives like
00:45:12.120 --> 00:45:13.110
Mozart.
00:45:13.110 --> 00:45:14.100
And we have a mythology of
00:45:14.100 --> 00:45:15.200
greatness.
00:45:15.200 --> 00:45:16.110
We wanna be as great as
00:45:16.110 --> 00:45:17.190
Michael Jordan without ever
00:45:17.190 --> 00:45:18.270
doing the work.
00:45:18.270 --> 00:45:19.230
You know, we wanna be able to,
00:45:19.230 --> 00:45:21.030
you know, to be like Einstein
00:45:21.030 --> 00:45:22.210
without really digging into
00:45:22.210 --> 00:45:23.180
the math.
00:45:23.180 --> 00:45:24.110
And the reality is that
00:45:24.110 --> 00:45:25.290
every great endeavor requires
00:45:25.290 --> 00:45:27.070
great discipline.
00:45:27.070 --> 00:45:28.200
That eventually, hard work,
00:45:28.200 --> 00:45:31.010
it gets mistaken as talent.
00:45:31.010 --> 00:45:33.290
And perseverance
00:45:33.290 --> 00:45:35.060
is mistaken as genius.
00:45:35.060 --> 00:45:37.040
So when you look at someone like
00:45:37.040 --> 00:45:38.000
Mozart, this is, I think, the
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:39.110
complexity of being human.
00:45:39.110 --> 00:45:40.250
You can be brilliant and you can
00:45:40.250 --> 00:45:42.270
solve all kinds of math
00:45:42.270 --> 00:45:44.000
problems.
00:45:44.000 --> 00:45:44.280
You can become a genius at
00:45:44.280 --> 00:45:45.210
physics but if you don't deal
00:45:45.210 --> 00:45:47.030
with the character issues of
00:45:47.030 --> 00:45:48.050
your life, you will actually
00:45:48.050 --> 00:45:49.170
create a destructive end for
00:45:49.170 --> 00:45:52.010
yourself and for others.
00:45:52.010 --> 00:45:53.100
Because I might create a
00:45:53.100 --> 00:45:55.050
beautiful work of art but my
00:45:55.050 --> 00:45:56.280
life ends up being a disaster.
00:45:56.280 --> 00:45:59.000
And our lives are supposed to be
00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:00.220
our greatest work of art.
00:46:00.220 --> 00:46:02.070
- Mark: Wow, and as a man
00:46:02.070 --> 00:46:04.000
thinketh in his heart, so is he.
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:05.260
- Erwin: Absolutely.
00:46:05.260 --> 00:46:07.120
- Mark: So let's suppose I'm
00:46:07.120 --> 00:46:09.210
sitting at home watching
00:46:09.210 --> 00:46:11.150
Erwin McManus right now and
00:46:11.150 --> 00:46:13.010
he's talking and I think,
00:46:13.010 --> 00:46:14.230
"Wow, this is--this guy is
00:46:14.230 --> 00:46:16.190
really a thinker.
00:46:16.190 --> 00:46:18.090
This is a--he's outside the box.
00:46:18.090 --> 00:46:20.050
But this book is not for me.
00:46:20.050 --> 00:46:22.140
I don't--I'm not an artisan
00:46:22.140 --> 00:46:23.270
soul.
00:46:23.270 --> 00:46:24.120
I don't create--I work in a shoe
00:46:24.270 --> 00:46:27.270
factory.
00:46:27.270 --> 00:46:28.270
All I do all day is stitch the
00:46:28.270 --> 00:46:30.000
same nine stitches every day,
00:46:30.000 --> 00:46:31.180
all day.
00:46:31.180 --> 00:46:32.120
This book just isn't for me."
00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:33.120
What do you say to that guy?
00:46:33.120 --> 00:46:34.230
- Erwin: Yeah, the title of the
00:46:34.230 --> 00:46:36.280
book is probably it's greatest
00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:39.010
obstacle because when I wrote
00:46:39.010 --> 00:46:41.020
"The Artisan Soul," I was
00:46:41.020 --> 00:46:42.160
writing it for everyone who
00:46:42.160 --> 00:46:43.270
doesn't believe they're an
00:46:43.270 --> 00:46:44.240
artist.
00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:45.160
I was writing it for everyone
00:46:45.160 --> 00:46:46.270
who doesn't believe they're
00:46:46.270 --> 00:46:47.210
creative.
00:46:47.210 --> 00:46:48.210
But I was also writing it for
00:46:48.210 --> 00:46:49.230
everyone who knows there's
00:46:49.230 --> 00:46:51.020
something inside of them that's
00:46:51.020 --> 00:46:52.250
waiting to be awakened but they
00:46:52.250 --> 00:46:54.100
can't figure out how to wake it
00:46:54.100 --> 00:46:55.240
up.
00:46:55.240 --> 00:46:57.060
It's almost as if their soul is
00:46:57.060 --> 00:46:58.060
asleep, that their talent is in
00:46:58.060 --> 00:47:00.020
a deep state of status, and
00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:04.220
they cannot unleash all that
00:47:04.220 --> 00:47:06.240
creative potential in their
00:47:06.240 --> 00:47:08.060
life.
00:47:08.060 --> 00:47:08.290
So what I would say is that this
00:47:08.290 --> 00:47:09.250
book is not written for the
00:47:09.250 --> 00:47:10.260
person who's saying, "I wake up
00:47:10.260 --> 00:47:12.050
every day, full of my creative
00:47:12.050 --> 00:47:14.180
essence.
00:47:14.180 --> 00:47:15.050
I know I'm creative.
00:47:15.050 --> 00:47:16.060
I know I'm artistic.
00:47:16.060 --> 00:47:17.060
I am bringing everything to
00:47:17.060 --> 00:47:18.080
every day."
00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:19.050
This is for the person who's
00:47:19.050 --> 00:47:20.090
sitting at home, going, "There
00:47:20.090 --> 00:47:21.200
has to be more to my life than
00:47:21.200 --> 00:47:23.110
what I'm living."
00:47:23.110 --> 00:47:24.130
- Mark: Wow. Great.
00:47:24.130 --> 00:47:25.130
- Erwin: "I feel like I'm
00:47:25.130 --> 00:47:26.100
existing and I'm not thriving.
00:47:26.100 --> 00:47:28.160
I'm conforming but I'm not
00:47:28.160 --> 00:47:30.090
creating."
00:47:30.090 --> 00:47:31.080
I wrote this book because I want
00:47:31.080 --> 00:47:32.200
to set people free from
00:47:32.200 --> 00:47:34.280
believing that they are just
00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:36.070
cogs in a machine and that we
00:47:36.070 --> 00:47:38.180
are created by God to create
00:47:38.180 --> 00:47:41.030
something beautiful.
00:47:41.030 --> 00:47:41.270
To me, the great tragedy is that
00:47:41.270 --> 00:47:43.170
there is something beautiful
00:47:43.170 --> 00:47:44.210
that's supposed to be created by
00:47:44.210 --> 00:47:45.230
every human being.
00:47:45.230 --> 00:47:47.040
There's a work of art that their
00:47:47.040 --> 00:47:49.050
life is supposed to become.
00:47:49.050 --> 00:47:50.160
And the tragedy is if you live
00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:52.120
and die and never give that
00:47:52.120 --> 00:47:54.230
masterpiece to the world.
00:47:54.230 --> 00:47:56.070
- Mark: Praise God.
00:47:56.070 --> 00:47:57.070
That's wonderful.
00:47:57.070 --> 00:47:58.040
I love it.
00:47:58.040 --> 00:47:59.050
I love it.
00:47:59.050 --> 00:48:00.150
I wanna come back to the book in
00:48:00.150 --> 00:48:03.080
a minute but, right now, I wanna
00:48:03.080 --> 00:48:04.110
ask you something about Mosaic.
00:48:04.110 --> 00:48:05.180
It's--Mosaic's been quite
00:48:05.180 --> 00:48:07.090
a fixture in the Los Angeles
00:48:07.090 --> 00:48:09.270
community for a while but it's
00:48:09.270 --> 00:48:10.280
gone through some transitions,
00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:12.210
hasn't it?
00:48:12.210 --> 00:48:13.170
You've really kind of
00:48:13.170 --> 00:48:14.260
experienced some ups and downs
00:48:14.260 --> 00:48:17.070
there.
00:48:17.070 --> 00:48:18.010
Tell us something about what's
00:48:18.010 --> 00:48:18.220
going on with Mosaic.
00:48:18.220 --> 00:48:19.220
- Erwin: Well, Mosaic is our
00:48:19.220 --> 00:48:20.220
church.
00:48:20.220 --> 00:48:21.200
And I love Mosaic.
00:48:21.200 --> 00:48:23.130
Mosaic has saved my life.
00:48:23.130 --> 00:48:25.090
If it's saved anyone's life, it
00:48:25.090 --> 00:48:26.180
has saved mine over the years.
00:48:26.180 --> 00:48:28.040
I think one of the unique things
00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:29.130
about Mosaic is that Mosaic has
00:48:29.130 --> 00:48:30.140
thousands and thousands of
00:48:30.140 --> 00:48:32.110
artists who come, people
00:48:32.110 --> 00:48:34.140
who--their core essence is to
00:48:34.140 --> 00:48:36.140
create, to imagine, to dream.
00:48:36.150 --> 00:48:39.150
And at the same time, that means
00:48:39.150 --> 00:48:40.260
there's a lot of dysfunction, a
00:48:40.260 --> 00:48:42.140
lot of brokenness, a lot of
00:48:42.140 --> 00:48:43.190
pain.
00:48:43.190 --> 00:48:44.190
And--but in the midst of that,
00:48:44.190 --> 00:48:47.140
you have all of this creative
00:48:47.140 --> 00:48:49.100
potential.
00:48:49.100 --> 00:48:50.090
The average age of our church is
00:48:50.090 --> 00:48:51.180
26 years old.
00:48:51.180 --> 00:48:52.210
- Mark: Ohh.
00:48:52.210 --> 00:48:53.160
- Erwin: And it's so much fun
00:48:53.160 --> 00:48:55.020
to watch people come at this
00:48:55.020 --> 00:48:57.070
early stage in their life
00:48:57.070 --> 00:48:58.120
but can--imagine this.
00:48:58.120 --> 00:49:00.020
Imagine a 26-year-old who's
00:49:00.020 --> 00:49:01.250
already had the core dream of
00:49:01.250 --> 00:49:03.230
their life crushed.
00:49:03.230 --> 00:49:05.120
And we named the church Mosaic
00:49:05.120 --> 00:49:07.080
because a mosaic is an art form
00:49:07.080 --> 00:49:08.100
of broken and fragmented pieces
00:49:08.100 --> 00:49:10.140
that are brought together to
00:49:10.140 --> 00:49:11.130
create something beautiful,
00:49:11.130 --> 00:49:13.000
especially when light strikes
00:49:13.000 --> 00:49:14.000
through it.
00:49:14.000 --> 00:49:14.280
And we wanted to say, "Look,
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:15.270
we're all mosaics.
00:49:15.270 --> 00:49:17.070
We're all broken and fragmented
00:49:17.070 --> 00:49:18.080
pieces, but God can bring us
00:49:18.080 --> 00:49:19.230
together to create something
00:49:19.230 --> 00:49:20.240
beautiful, especially when his
00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:22.000
light strikes through us."
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:23.270
So we're right on the corner of
00:49:23.270 --> 00:49:24.290
Hollywood Boulevard and Le Brea.
00:49:24.290 --> 00:49:26.250
It's an insane corner.
00:49:26.250 --> 00:49:29.040
I mean, people run up to me, go,
00:49:29.040 --> 00:49:30.220
"Michael Jackson's in
00:49:30.220 --> 00:49:31.200
the building," and I go,
00:49:31.200 --> 00:49:32.170
"Michael Jackson is dead."
00:49:32.170 --> 00:49:34.220
And you know,
00:49:34.220 --> 00:49:36.050
but we are the church
00:49:36.050 --> 00:49:37.040
where Darth Vader will walk in
00:49:37.040 --> 00:49:38.100
and Spiderman will walk in.
00:49:38.100 --> 00:49:40.220
We're also the church that's had
00:49:40.220 --> 00:49:42.010
3 bomb threats over the last 6
00:49:42.010 --> 00:49:43.090
months and, you know, the bomb
00:49:43.090 --> 00:49:45.180
squads have shut down our
00:49:45.180 --> 00:49:46.280
worship services on Sundays
00:49:46.280 --> 00:49:48.090
because of the threat of human
00:49:48.120 --> 00:49:51.120
life.
00:49:51.120 --> 00:49:52.220
I mean, it's in the center of--I
00:49:52.220 --> 00:49:54.150
think it's in the center of
00:49:54.150 --> 00:49:57.090
the human conflict.
00:49:57.090 --> 00:49:59.010
Los Angeles inhales the world
00:49:59.010 --> 00:50:02.010
and it can exhale the gospel.
00:50:02.010 --> 00:50:04.070
And if you took this planet and
00:50:04.230 --> 00:50:07.230
looked at it as a human body,
00:50:07.230 --> 00:50:10.020
Los Angeles is the lungs.
00:50:10.020 --> 00:50:13.010
It may not be the heart of the
00:50:13.010 --> 00:50:14.150
world but it definitely is the
00:50:14.150 --> 00:50:15.250
lungs.
00:50:15.250 --> 00:50:16.240
And if we can get the life of
00:50:16.240 --> 00:50:18.210
Jesus into that city, it will
00:50:18.210 --> 00:50:20.270
exhale Jesus across the world.
00:50:20.270 --> 00:50:23.090
- Mark: Praise God.
00:50:23.090 --> 00:50:24.030
Praise God.
00:50:24.030 --> 00:50:25.040
You know, you told me one time,
00:50:25.220 --> 00:50:28.220
you did a survey--just got a
00:50:28.220 --> 00:50:30.270
couple of minutes here, but you
00:50:30.270 --> 00:50:32.210
did a survey one--on a Sunday
00:50:32.210 --> 00:50:34.050
morning and several thousand
00:50:34.050 --> 00:50:35.110
people there.
00:50:35.110 --> 00:50:36.020
I don't remember, 8.000 people,
00:50:36.020 --> 00:50:37.070
whatever it was.
00:50:37.070 --> 00:50:38.030
And you asked how many are
00:50:38.030 --> 00:50:39.230
atheists.
00:50:39.230 --> 00:50:40.130
I don't know how you did the
00:50:40.130 --> 00:50:41.050
survey.
00:50:41.050 --> 00:50:42.000
Tell us about that.
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:42.260
I wanna hear about that survey
00:50:42.260 --> 00:50:43.210
again.
00:50:43.210 --> 00:50:44.110
- Erwin: Yeah, we have an
00:50:44.110 --> 00:50:45.100
unusual number of atheists that
00:50:45.100 --> 00:50:46.050
come to Mosaic.
00:50:46.050 --> 00:50:47.210
And a part of it is we actually
00:50:47.210 --> 00:50:48.130
went out and recruited them.
00:50:48.130 --> 00:50:50.110
We just tried saying, "You don't
00:50:50.110 --> 00:50:51.200
have to believe with us to be
00:50:51.200 --> 00:50:53.210
with us."
00:50:53.210 --> 00:50:54.220
Say, "We're gonna love you."
00:50:54.220 --> 00:50:56.190
And I would tell--I would just
00:50:56.190 --> 00:50:57.140
start saying to all the atheists
00:50:57.140 --> 00:50:58.160
who started coming, "Tell your
00:50:58.160 --> 00:50:59.200
friends, 'cause atheists are
00:50:59.200 --> 00:51:01.060
great at science and math but
00:51:01.060 --> 00:51:02.210
you're terrible at creating
00:51:02.210 --> 00:51:03.140
community.
00:51:03.140 --> 00:51:04.140
And so why don't you borrow
00:51:04.140 --> 00:51:05.170
community from us?
00:51:05.170 --> 00:51:06.160
We're really good at creating
00:51:06.160 --> 00:51:07.070
it."
00:51:07.070 --> 00:51:07.260
So on Easter, we had about 8.000
00:51:07.260 --> 00:51:09.170
people and I did an invitation
00:51:09.170 --> 00:51:12.100
time and we had these little
00:51:12.100 --> 00:51:13.140
lights and I said, "All right,
00:51:13.140 --> 00:51:14.220
if you're here and you're an
00:51:14.220 --> 00:51:15.210
atheist and you would say, 'I am
00:51:15.210 --> 00:51:16.280
an atheist but if God were out
00:51:16.280 --> 00:51:19.200
there, I'd love for him to find
00:51:19.200 --> 00:51:21.010
me.'"
00:51:21.010 --> 00:51:22.020
We had over 1.000 atheists
00:51:22.020 --> 00:51:24.120
respond that day.
00:51:24.120 --> 00:51:26.060
And what I love about our
00:51:27.010 --> 00:51:30.010
community is, it's one of those
00:51:30.010 --> 00:51:32.290
strange places that Christians
00:51:32.290 --> 00:51:34.190
come up to me and tell me, "I
00:51:34.190 --> 00:51:35.130
didn't feel comfortable at your
00:51:35.130 --> 00:51:36.290
church because I was
00:51:36.290 --> 00:51:37.270
outnumbered."
00:51:37.270 --> 00:51:39.010
- Mark: That's interesting.
00:51:39.010 --> 00:51:40.200
- Erwin: It's one of those rare
00:51:40.200 --> 00:51:41.160
places that if you actually come
00:51:41.160 --> 00:51:43.020
from a church and you're a
00:51:43.020 --> 00:51:44.170
Christian, you may actually feel
00:51:44.170 --> 00:51:46.010
like you're in a minority
00:51:46.010 --> 00:51:47.110
because there's so many people
00:51:47.110 --> 00:51:48.280
who come who don't know God.
00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:50.100
In fact, I was in Australia and
00:51:50.100 --> 00:51:52.000
talking to some friends of ours
00:51:52.000 --> 00:51:53.140
at a church and they said,
00:51:53.140 --> 00:51:54.180
"We recommended your church to
00:51:54.180 --> 00:51:55.290
a friend of ours.
00:51:55.290 --> 00:51:56.290
And he said, 'Oh, no, I don't
00:51:56.290 --> 00:51:58.090
want to go there.
00:51:58.090 --> 00:51:59.040
It must be a cult.'"
00:51:59.040 --> 00:52:00.140
And they said, "Why?"
00:52:00.140 --> 00:52:02.060
And he said, "Because every
00:52:02.060 --> 00:52:03.140
non-Christian I know goes
00:52:03.140 --> 00:52:04.200
there."
00:52:04.200 --> 00:52:06.120
- Mark: So that makes it
00:52:06.120 --> 00:52:07.150
a cult?
00:52:07.150 --> 00:52:08.050
- Erwin: That's right.
00:52:08.050 --> 00:52:09.030
It sounds like what Jesus did.
00:52:09.030 --> 00:52:10.050
- Mark: But that is a
00:52:10.050 --> 00:52:11.070
remarkable--
00:52:11.070 --> 00:52:11.270
- Erwin: And I love the fact
00:52:11.270 --> 00:52:13.170
that, you know, every week we
00:52:13.170 --> 00:52:14.080
open up the Scriptures.
00:52:14.080 --> 00:52:15.010
I mean, we teach Jesus.
00:52:15.010 --> 00:52:16.290
We're really intense.
00:52:16.290 --> 00:52:18.100
There's nothing soft, really, or
00:52:18.100 --> 00:52:20.000
light about our message.
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:21.180
It's a very intense--
00:52:21.180 --> 00:52:22.190
- Mark: Not watered-down
00:52:22.190 --> 00:52:23.130
Christianity to make an atheist
00:52:23.130 --> 00:52:24.180
feel comfortable?
00:52:24.180 --> 00:52:25.090
- Erwin: No.
00:52:25.090 --> 00:52:26.140
Why would an atheist want to
00:52:26.140 --> 00:52:28.220
turn to God if he only made him
00:52:28.220 --> 00:52:30.110
comfortable?
00:52:30.110 --> 00:52:31.160
You see, you're not gonna have
00:52:31.160 --> 00:52:33.230
Buddhists and Hindus and Muslims
00:52:33.230 --> 00:52:35.160
and atheists come to Jesus if
00:52:35.160 --> 00:52:37.010
Jesus just looks like he's milk
00:52:37.010 --> 00:52:38.220
toast.
00:52:38.220 --> 00:52:40.060
It has to be an extreme,
00:52:40.060 --> 00:52:41.290
passionate, intense,
00:52:41.290 --> 00:52:44.080
revolutionary message that Jesus
00:52:44.080 --> 00:52:45.270
changes everything.
00:52:45.270 --> 00:52:47.030
And so a lot of times, what I do
00:52:47.030 --> 00:52:48.270
on Sundays is I just--I say,
00:52:48.270 --> 00:52:50.220
"If--" This is the way I will do
00:52:50.220 --> 00:52:51.240
the invitation.
00:52:51.240 --> 00:52:52.200
I'll say, "If you're here and
00:52:52.200 --> 00:52:53.130
you came in as an atheist and
00:52:53.130 --> 00:52:54.230
you knew there was no God when
00:52:54.230 --> 00:52:56.010
you came in, but God has spoken
00:52:56.010 --> 00:52:57.160
to you and told you that Jesus
00:52:57.160 --> 00:52:59.060
is his name, I want you to stand
00:52:59.060 --> 00:53:00.220
up," and people just start
00:53:00.220 --> 00:53:01.270
standing up everywhere.
00:53:01.270 --> 00:53:03.100
- Mark: Praise God.
00:53:03.100 --> 00:53:04.050
- Erwin: And so I don't do this
00:53:04.050 --> 00:53:05.060
whole thing, "Hey, I finally
00:53:05.060 --> 00:53:06.040
answered your questions.
00:53:06.040 --> 00:53:07.040
I finally won the argument."
00:53:07.040 --> 00:53:08.110
We just say, "Look, God spoke to
00:53:08.110 --> 00:53:10.080
you and told you that Jesus is
00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:11.140
his name."
00:53:11.140 --> 00:53:12.170
It's amazing how many atheists
00:53:12.170 --> 00:53:14.080
stand up.
00:53:14.080 --> 00:53:15.160
And I've realized that the human
00:53:15.160 --> 00:53:17.110
brain doesn't move as fast as
00:53:17.110 --> 00:53:18.260
the soul.
00:53:18.260 --> 00:53:20.080
And our brains are just trying
00:53:20.080 --> 00:53:21.290
to catch up to what our souls
00:53:21.290 --> 00:53:23.010
know.
00:53:23.010 --> 00:53:24.000
That your soul knows that God is
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:25.190
there.
00:53:25.190 --> 00:53:26.120
Your soul knows that God is
00:53:26.120 --> 00:53:27.170
speaking to you.
00:53:27.170 --> 00:53:28.240
And your soul even knows that
00:53:28.240 --> 00:53:29.290
Jesus is his name.
00:53:29.290 --> 00:53:31.110
It's your brain that's telling
00:53:31.110 --> 00:53:32.080
you, "I don't know how I know
00:53:32.080 --> 00:53:33.030
this and I'm very uncomfortable
00:53:33.030 --> 00:53:34.120
with this."
00:53:34.120 --> 00:53:35.170
And I love being in a space
00:53:35.170 --> 00:53:38.120
where we can usher people into
00:53:38.120 --> 00:53:39.210
the presence of God and they
00:53:39.210 --> 00:53:41.020
just come to believe God because
00:53:41.020 --> 00:53:43.010
he overwhelms them, not because
00:53:43.010 --> 00:53:44.180
we answered the right question.
00:53:44.180 --> 00:53:46.090
- Mark: They get that touch
00:53:46.090 --> 00:53:48.160
from God.
00:53:48.160 --> 00:53:49.190
That's a different thing.
00:53:49.190 --> 00:53:50.280
There's no way to argue anybody
00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:53.110
and to beat 'em with--I'm not
00:53:53.110 --> 00:53:55.100
opposed to dogmatics or to
00:53:55.100 --> 00:53:56.230
apologetics but there's not
00:53:56.230 --> 00:53:58.240
really any way to beat somebody
00:53:58.240 --> 00:54:00.250
into being a Christian,
00:54:00.250 --> 00:54:02.020
is there?
00:54:02.020 --> 00:54:02.190
- Erwin: You cannot argue
00:54:02.190 --> 00:54:03.120
a person into love.
00:54:03.120 --> 00:54:04.130
And our faith is about love.
00:54:06.220 --> 00:54:09.220
It's a relationship of love.
00:54:09.220 --> 00:54:11.130
Jesus connects to us
00:54:11.130 --> 00:54:13.080
through love.
00:54:13.080 --> 00:54:14.010
And we keep thinking that Jesus
00:54:14.010 --> 00:54:15.150
is two plus two equals four and
00:54:15.150 --> 00:54:17.020
he's not.
00:54:17.020 --> 00:54:19.100
And--but when you fall in love,
00:54:19.100 --> 00:54:21.190
all reason goes out the window
00:54:21.190 --> 00:54:24.150
'cause when--once you're in
00:54:24.150 --> 00:54:25.160
love, it doesn't have to make
00:54:25.160 --> 00:54:27.040
sense.
00:54:27.040 --> 00:54:27.290
It's love that makes it make
00:54:27.290 --> 00:54:29.020
sense.
00:54:29.020 --> 00:54:29.220
- Mark: Praise God.
00:54:29.220 --> 00:54:31.010
That's so true, isn't it?
00:54:31.010 --> 00:54:32.050
- Erwin: Yeah.
00:54:32.200 --> 00:54:35.200
- Mark: I'm not 100% sure that
00:54:35.200 --> 00:54:38.050
you can take the--just the words
00:54:38.050 --> 00:54:40.110
of Christ out of
00:54:40.110 --> 00:54:41.270
the New Testament and build an
00:54:41.270 --> 00:54:43.210
apologetic scheme out of that.
00:54:43.210 --> 00:54:46.080
What those people encountered
00:54:46.080 --> 00:54:49.010
was his presence, was him, was
00:54:49.010 --> 00:54:51.130
Jesus.
00:54:51.130 --> 00:54:52.210
That's what touched them.
00:54:52.210 --> 00:54:53.240
That's what changed 'em.
00:54:53.240 --> 00:54:54.180
And that's what's changing 'em
00:54:54.180 --> 00:54:56.000
at Mosaic in downtown
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:57.080
Los Angeles.
00:54:57.080 --> 00:54:57.290
- Erwin: It is.
00:54:57.290 --> 00:54:58.180
You know, I was meeting with
00:54:58.180 --> 00:54:59.130
this investor for a movie and
00:54:59.130 --> 00:55:01.180
I didn't want to--I'm gonna be
00:55:01.180 --> 00:55:03.120
honest, I--he knew--he didn't
00:55:03.120 --> 00:55:04.200
know I was a pastor.
00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:05.190
He didn't know I was a Christian
00:55:05.190 --> 00:55:06.110
so I was gonna not mention that.
00:55:06.110 --> 00:55:07.210
I just wanted to direct a film.
00:55:07.210 --> 00:55:08.290
And I'm talking about these
00:55:08.290 --> 00:55:11.270
films, everything like that, and
00:55:11.270 --> 00:55:13.020
these projects, and he asked
00:55:13.020 --> 00:55:15.040
me--a 40-acre house in
00:55:15.040 --> 00:55:16.230
Beverly Hills.
00:55:16.230 --> 00:55:17.270
And he said, "Hey, could we talk
00:55:17.270 --> 00:55:19.070
some more?"
00:55:19.070 --> 00:55:21.250
And I went back to his place
00:55:21.250 --> 00:55:23.220
the next day and I said, "Why
00:55:23.220 --> 00:55:24.290
do you wanna talk some more?"
00:55:24.290 --> 00:55:25.280
He goes, "There's this
00:55:25.280 --> 00:55:26.180
unexplainable peace that entered
00:55:26.180 --> 00:55:29.010
the room when you walked in."
00:55:29.010 --> 00:55:30.240
And in 24 hours, I had an
00:55:31.020 --> 00:55:34.020
opportunity to help him know who
00:55:34.020 --> 00:55:35.230
Jesus was and within weeks he
00:55:35.230 --> 00:55:36.270
came to faith in him.
00:55:36.270 --> 00:55:37.270
And I thought that's so funny.
00:55:37.270 --> 00:55:38.290
I didn't wanna say anything but,
00:55:38.290 --> 00:55:40.130
you know, if God is with you,
00:55:40.130 --> 00:55:41.190
God's already speaking.
00:55:41.190 --> 00:55:42.230
- Mark: Praise God.
00:55:42.230 --> 00:55:43.210
Isn't that--
00:55:43.210 --> 00:55:44.230
- Erwin: And so it's
00:55:44.230 --> 00:55:45.110
embarrassing to be quiet if
00:55:45.110 --> 00:55:46.020
God's talking.
00:55:46.020 --> 00:55:47.210
- Mark: It's also embarrassing
00:55:47.210 --> 00:55:49.200
to talk when God is saying
00:55:49.200 --> 00:55:51.100
everybody needs to be quiet.
00:55:51.100 --> 00:55:52.180
- Erwin: That's right.
00:55:52.180 --> 00:55:54.080
- Mark: Erwin, thank you so
00:55:54.080 --> 00:55:54.280
much for being here.
00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:55.200
I tell you, it's great to see
00:55:55.200 --> 00:55:56.230
you again.
00:55:56.230 --> 00:55:57.190
- Erwin: It's great to be here
00:55:57.190 --> 00:55:58.110
with you guys.
00:55:58.110 --> 00:55:58.250
- Mark: God bless you.
00:55:58.250 --> 00:55:59.130
God bless Mosaic and I pray that
00:55:59.130 --> 00:56:01.170
a lot of people will receive
00:56:01.170 --> 00:56:03.080
this book, "The Artisan Soul,"
00:56:03.080 --> 00:56:04.190
by Erwin McManus, one of God's
00:56:05.000 --> 00:56:08.000
richest thinkers.
00:56:08.000 --> 00:56:09.020
God bless you.
00:56:09.020 --> 00:56:10.090
Thank you for being here.
00:56:10.090 --> 00:56:11.020
- Erwin: Thank you so much.
00:56:11.020 --> 00:56:11.220
- Mark: Thank you, thank you.
00:56:13.080 --> 00:56:16.080
- Mark: You know, life is not
00:56:16.080 --> 00:56:17.040
always smooth and plastic.
00:56:17.040 --> 00:56:18.170
Sometimes, there's challenges.
00:56:18.170 --> 00:56:19.220
There's valleys and hills and
00:56:19.220 --> 00:56:21.100
mountains to climb.
00:56:21.100 --> 00:56:22.230
And sometimes,
00:56:22.230 --> 00:56:23.130
some tough things.
00:56:23.130 --> 00:56:24.110
But here's Jentezen Franklin to
00:56:24.110 --> 00:56:25.190
tell you that "Through It All,"
00:56:25.190 --> 00:56:26.200
God can make the victory ours.
00:56:27.090 --> 00:56:30.090
I've had many tears
00:56:34.250 --> 00:56:36.050
and sorrows.
00:56:36.050 --> 00:56:38.210
I've had questions
00:56:38.210 --> 00:56:39.180
about tomorrow.
00:56:39.180 --> 00:56:42.170
There've been times
00:56:42.170 --> 00:56:44.070
But in every situation,
00:56:51.210 --> 00:56:54.210
God gave me that
00:56:54.210 --> 00:56:56.020
blessed consolation.
00:56:56.170 --> 00:56:59.170
He let me know
00:56:59.170 --> 00:57:01.290
I've been to lots of places.
00:57:09.040 --> 00:57:12.040
I've seen lots of faces.
00:57:13.000 --> 00:57:16.000
But still there've been
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.060
times I just felt all alone
00:57:21.040 --> 00:57:24.040
But in my lonely hours,
00:57:25.110 --> 00:57:28.110
he made them
00:57:28.110 --> 00:57:29.090
precious lonely hours.
00:57:29.110 --> 00:57:32.110
He let me know that
00:57:32.110 --> 00:57:34.190
I was his own.
00:57:35.150 --> 00:57:38.150
Oh, and through it all,
00:57:41.000 --> 00:57:44.000
through it all,
00:57:44.210 --> 00:57:47.210
I've learned to trust in
00:57:47.210 --> 00:57:49.250
Jesus and I've learned
00:57:49.250 --> 00:57:52.160
to trust in God.
00:57:53.060 --> 00:57:56.060
Oh, through it all,
00:57:56.140 --> 00:57:59.140
Yes, through it all,
00:58:01.010 --> 00:58:04.010
I've learned to
00:58:04.010 --> 00:58:06.100
depend upon his Word.
00:58:08.270 --> 00:58:11.270
So I thank God for
00:58:11.270 --> 00:58:14.200
the mountains, and I thank
00:58:14.200 --> 00:58:17.120
him for the low valleys.
00:58:17.120 --> 00:58:20.070
I even thank him
00:58:20.070 --> 00:58:22.100
for the storms
00:58:22.100 --> 00:58:24.010
he's brought me through.
00:58:25.080 --> 00:58:28.080
For if I'd never had
00:58:28.260 --> 00:58:31.260
all those problems,
00:58:31.260 --> 00:58:33.130
I'd never know that
00:58:33.130 --> 00:58:34.280
my God can solve them.
00:58:34.280 --> 00:58:37.040
I'd never know what faith
00:58:37.040 --> 00:58:39.030
in his Word can do.
00:58:39.030 --> 00:58:41.210
If you know it,
00:58:41.210 --> 00:58:42.160
sing it right where you are.
00:58:42.160 --> 00:58:44.280
So through it all,
00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:47.240
oh, through it all,
00:58:49.040 --> 00:58:52.040
I've learned
00:58:52.040 --> 00:58:54.010
I can really trust in Jesus
00:58:54.010 --> 00:58:56.160
I've learned
00:58:56.160 --> 00:58:57.250
to trust in God.
00:58:57.250 --> 00:58:59.270
Sometimes,
00:58:59.270 --> 00:59:01.060
through the fire,
00:59:01.060 --> 00:59:03.140
sometimes,
00:59:03.140 --> 00:59:04.200
through the storm.
00:59:04.260 --> 00:59:07.260
Oh, I've learned just
00:59:07.260 --> 00:59:10.160
[music]
00:59:17.250 --> 00:59:25.060
[music]
00:59:25.060 --> 00:59:32.230
[music]
00:59:32.250 --> 00:59:40.020
[music]
00:59:40.020 --> 00:59:47.190
Through it all,
00:59:49.210 --> 00:59:52.210
through it all,
00:59:53.120 --> 00:59:56.120
I've learned
00:59:56.120 --> 00:59:58.160
to trust in Jesus.
00:59:58.160 --> 01:00:00.120
I've learned
01:00:00.120 --> 01:00:01.170
to trust in God.
01:00:01.170 --> 01:00:04.060
And through it all,
01:00:05.080 --> 01:00:08.080
I've learned
01:00:18.200 --> 01:00:21.200
I've learned
01:00:21.200 --> 01:00:30.280
[music]
01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:38.110
[music]
01:00:38.110 --> 01:00:46.000
[audience applauding]
01:01:05.000 --> 01:01:08.000
- Mark: That's Jentezen
01:01:08.000 --> 01:01:09.020
Franklin with "Through It All"
01:01:09.020 --> 01:01:11.050
from his beautiful new CD,
01:01:11.050 --> 01:01:13.030
"I Hear the Sound:
01:01:13.030 --> 01:01:14.150
Songs That Matter."
01:01:14.150 --> 01:01:15.220
I know you're gonna wanna get
01:01:15.220 --> 01:01:16.130
this CD and enjoy every song
01:01:16.130 --> 01:01:18.180
that's on there.
01:01:18.180 --> 01:01:19.130
Now listen to me for just
01:01:19.130 --> 01:01:20.160
a moment.
01:01:20.160 --> 01:01:21.150
I don't know what you're facing.
01:01:21.150 --> 01:01:23.190
I don't know what you're dealing
01:01:23.190 --> 01:01:24.170
with.
01:01:24.170 --> 01:01:25.140
I don't know what the all is
01:01:25.140 --> 01:01:27.000
that God is bringing you
01:01:27.000 --> 01:01:28.170
through.
01:01:28.170 --> 01:01:29.240
I don't know what you're facing
01:01:29.240 --> 01:01:30.190
right this moment, right now
01:01:30.190 --> 01:01:32.050
as you watch this.
01:01:32.050 --> 01:01:33.160
Maybe you're alone in a hotel
01:01:33.160 --> 01:01:34.200
room right now and you're
01:01:34.200 --> 01:01:36.030
struggling with the future of
01:01:36.030 --> 01:01:38.060
your life.
01:01:38.060 --> 01:01:40.050
I want to invite you right now.
01:01:40.050 --> 01:01:42.090
That same Jesus that guided
01:01:42.140 --> 01:01:45.140
Jentezen through it, that guided
01:01:45.140 --> 01:01:46.110
me through it, that guides
01:01:46.110 --> 01:01:47.150
thousands, millions, through the
01:01:47.150 --> 01:01:48.190
history of the world, through it
01:01:48.190 --> 01:01:50.110
all, ask him right now.
01:01:50.110 --> 01:01:51.160
Say, "Lord, come into my life.
01:01:51.160 --> 01:01:53.110
I receive you.
01:01:53.110 --> 01:01:54.140
Touch me.
01:01:54.140 --> 01:01:55.040
Speak to me."
01:01:55.040 --> 01:01:56.150
Maybe you're the atheist that
01:01:56.150 --> 01:01:58.190
Erwin McManus was talking about.
01:01:58.190 --> 01:02:01.140
That still small voice, that
01:02:01.140 --> 01:02:03.010
nagging voice inside of you that
01:02:03.010 --> 01:02:05.060
says, "I'm here and I'm real."
01:02:05.060 --> 01:02:07.150
That's God.
01:02:07.150 --> 01:02:08.210
And then why don't you pick your
01:02:08.210 --> 01:02:10.060
telephone up, call the number
01:02:10.060 --> 01:02:11.050
that's on the screen, and say to
01:02:11.050 --> 01:02:12.160
the person there, "Pray with me.
01:02:12.160 --> 01:02:14.050
I wanna receive the Lord.
01:02:14.050 --> 01:02:15.190
I need prayer for," any need
01:02:15.190 --> 01:02:16.250
that's in your life.
01:02:16.250 --> 01:02:18.040
I don't know what you're facing
01:02:18.040 --> 01:02:19.170
in marriage, finances, your
01:02:19.170 --> 01:02:20.230
future, whatever it is.
01:02:20.230 --> 01:02:22.110
Pick the phone up and say to
01:02:22.110 --> 01:02:24.000
somebody on the other end of
01:02:24.000 --> 01:02:25.020
the line, "Pray with me.
01:02:25.020 --> 01:02:26.260
I need help.
01:02:26.260 --> 01:02:27.220
I need a touch from God.
01:02:27.220 --> 01:02:29.110
I need him to take me through it
01:02:29.110 --> 01:02:31.010
all."
01:02:31.010 --> 01:02:32.000
And I'm gonna believe God
01:02:32.000 --> 01:02:33.070
with you for that miracle.
01:02:33.070 --> 01:02:34.210
Now, I want you to meet
01:02:34.210 --> 01:02:35.260
our next guest.
01:02:35.260 --> 01:02:36.280
I'm so delighted.
01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:37.220
Another friend of mine,
01:02:37.220 --> 01:02:38.210
the President and co-Founder of
01:02:38.210 --> 01:02:40.100
the King of Kings Community and
01:02:40.100 --> 01:02:42.080
Community of Ministries
01:02:42.090 --> 01:02:45.090
in Jerusalem, Israel,
01:02:45.090 --> 01:02:46.080
Wayne Hilsden.
01:02:46.080 --> 01:02:47.030
Wayne, welcome.
01:02:47.030 --> 01:02:48.020
Welcome to "Praise The Lord."
01:02:48.020 --> 01:02:49.270
- Wayne Hilsden: Awesome to be
01:02:49.270 --> 01:02:51.030
here.
01:02:51.030 --> 01:02:51.200
- Mark: I'm honored that you're
01:02:51.200 --> 01:02:52.120
here with us, all the way from
01:02:52.120 --> 01:02:53.110
Jerusalem.
01:02:53.110 --> 01:02:54.120
I just wanna start with a
01:02:54.120 --> 01:02:55.230
straight-out question, how does
01:02:55.230 --> 01:02:58.090
a Canadian wind up spending 32
01:02:58.090 --> 01:03:00.100
years doing ministry in
01:03:00.100 --> 01:03:02.250
Jerusalem?
01:03:02.250 --> 01:03:03.240
How did that happen?
01:03:03.240 --> 01:03:04.240
- Wayne: That's a good
01:03:04.240 --> 01:03:05.120
question.
01:03:05.120 --> 01:03:06.010
Well, you know, the weather in
01:03:06.010 --> 01:03:06.220
Canada's really rough.
01:03:06.220 --> 01:03:07.240
Israel looked awfully warm,
01:03:07.240 --> 01:03:09.150
so--no, that's not the reason.
01:03:09.150 --> 01:03:11.070
- Mark: That's not the answer.
01:03:11.070 --> 01:03:12.130
- Wayne: No, it's not the
01:03:12.130 --> 01:03:13.020
answer.
01:03:13.020 --> 01:03:13.230
You know, out of the blue,
01:03:13.230 --> 01:03:14.170
really.
01:03:14.170 --> 01:03:15.030
I never wanted to go to Israel.
01:03:15.030 --> 01:03:16.150
I didn't have any heart to
01:03:16.150 --> 01:03:19.010
travel there and see the country
01:03:19.010 --> 01:03:20.230
but I was about 30 years of age
01:03:20.230 --> 01:03:23.090
We stopped at a church north of
01:03:25.270 --> 01:03:27.010
Toronto.
01:03:27.010 --> 01:03:28.030
The pastor met the folks at the
01:03:28.030 --> 01:03:29.230
door, shook their hand, invited
01:03:29.230 --> 01:03:31.100
us home for dinner, and over
01:03:31.100 --> 01:03:32.190
dinner said, "I feel called to
01:03:32.190 --> 01:03:33.180
Israel.
01:03:33.180 --> 01:03:35.050
I'm about to resign my church
01:03:35.050 --> 01:03:35.280
and move there.
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:36.290
And I feel the Lord's calling me
01:03:36.290 --> 01:03:38.130
to plant a church in Jerusalem.
01:03:38.130 --> 01:03:39.260
Would you and Ann come and help
01:03:39.260 --> 01:03:41.220
us plant that church?"
01:03:41.220 --> 01:03:42.240
He hadn't even prayed about it,
01:03:45.080 --> 01:03:46.150
I found out later.
01:03:46.150 --> 01:03:47.180
But we were stupid enough to go.
01:03:47.180 --> 01:03:50.060
And we pastored that little
01:03:50.060 --> 01:03:51.260
congregation that grew for 5
01:03:51.260 --> 01:03:53.220
years.
01:03:53.220 --> 01:03:55.160
He went back to Canada and we
01:03:55.160 --> 01:03:56.220
remained ever since.
01:03:56.220 --> 01:03:59.080
- Mark: So he took you to
01:03:59.080 --> 01:03:59.290
Jerusalem and then he went home
01:03:59.290 --> 01:04:01.120
and left you there?
01:04:01.120 --> 01:04:02.090
- Wayne: Exactly.
01:04:02.090 --> 01:04:02.280
Abandoned.
01:04:02.280 --> 01:04:03.250
- Mark: Abandoned you there.
01:04:03.250 --> 01:04:04.280
And you've been there 32 years
01:04:04.280 --> 01:04:05.260
and you have built a substantial
01:04:05.260 --> 01:04:07.210
ministry there with all kinds
01:04:07.210 --> 01:04:09.150
of--there are all kinds of
01:04:09.150 --> 01:04:11.180
groups that meet there.
01:04:11.180 --> 01:04:12.210
It's a lot of facilities
01:04:12.210 --> 01:04:14.100
building.
01:04:14.100 --> 01:04:15.170
I know Free Chapel, Jentezen and
01:04:15.170 --> 01:04:16.270
Free Chapel, we've participated
01:04:16.270 --> 01:04:18.080
in those facilities as well.
01:04:18.080 --> 01:04:20.180
- Wayne: We call it a family of
01:04:20.180 --> 01:04:21.290
ministries.
01:04:21.290 --> 01:04:22.230
I've always had a heart as soon
01:04:22.230 --> 01:04:23.210
as I came to know the Lord as
01:04:23.210 --> 01:04:25.150
Savior to really think broader,
01:04:25.150 --> 01:04:28.120
the kingdom.
01:04:28.120 --> 01:04:29.200
And really, I believe in unity.
01:04:29.200 --> 01:04:31.180
I think it's a powerful
01:04:31.180 --> 01:04:32.180
demonstration of the gospel,
01:04:32.180 --> 01:04:35.100
the power of the gospel.
01:04:35.100 --> 01:04:37.020
Jesus said, you know, he prayed.
01:04:37.020 --> 01:04:38.040
He said that we would be one,
01:04:38.040 --> 01:04:39.120
that the world would know that
01:04:39.120 --> 01:04:40.190
the Father sent him.
01:04:40.190 --> 01:04:41.240
And so what we do is we open up
01:04:41.240 --> 01:04:43.080
all of our facilities.
01:04:43.080 --> 01:04:44.220
We bought 30 properties in one
01:04:44.220 --> 01:04:46.020
building on the main street in
01:04:46.020 --> 01:04:47.220
downtown Jerusalem.
01:04:47.220 --> 01:04:49.050
The light rail transit stops at
01:04:49.050 --> 01:04:50.040
our door.
01:04:50.040 --> 01:04:51.000
We have 12 congregations that
01:04:51.000 --> 01:04:52.170
gather, worshiping God in
01:04:52.170 --> 01:04:54.170
various languages from various
01:04:54.170 --> 01:04:55.230
backgrounds.
01:04:55.230 --> 01:04:57.040
We have a prayer tower on the
01:04:57.040 --> 01:04:58.180
top of this building.
01:04:58.180 --> 01:04:59.260
It's on the 17th story and we
01:04:59.260 --> 01:05:01.190
see almost the entire city of
01:05:01.190 --> 01:05:03.010
Jerusalem.
01:05:03.010 --> 01:05:03.280
We see Jordan on a clear day and
01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:05.130
we've got a school of ministry
01:05:05.130 --> 01:05:07.100
there.
01:05:07.100 --> 01:05:09.080
We have a school of music and
01:05:09.080 --> 01:05:10.260
the arts, a school of media,
01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:12.150
and developing a ministry of
01:05:12.150 --> 01:05:15.130
counseling and training
01:05:15.130 --> 01:05:17.220
counselors.
01:05:17.220 --> 01:05:18.170
We've bought out two porn shops
01:05:18.170 --> 01:05:20.110
that were right outside our
01:05:20.110 --> 01:05:22.040
sanctuary, a former movie
01:05:22.040 --> 01:05:23.230
theater, and outside, two porn
01:05:23.230 --> 01:05:25.050
shops.
01:05:25.050 --> 01:05:26.030
Turned one of them into a family
01:05:26.030 --> 01:05:27.050
counseling center and God has
01:05:27.050 --> 01:05:29.010
done--turned that place around.
01:05:29.010 --> 01:05:30.250
- Mark: Isn't that great?
01:05:30.250 --> 01:05:32.140
- Wayne: He's a redeemer.
01:05:32.140 --> 01:05:34.190
- Mark: Maybe those
01:05:34.190 --> 01:05:35.250
who haven't been
01:05:35.250 --> 01:05:36.280
to Jerusalem and to Israel and
01:05:36.280 --> 01:05:38.250
to Jerusalem don't realize, by
01:05:38.250 --> 01:05:41.150
watching the news, at least you
01:05:41.150 --> 01:05:42.280
get some sense of it, but when
01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:44.160
you're standing in Jerusalem,
01:05:44.160 --> 01:05:46.090
you're really, truly, in
01:05:46.090 --> 01:05:47.270
the center of the world.
01:05:47.270 --> 01:05:49.180
This little tiny real estate,
01:05:49.180 --> 01:05:51.050
the size of New Jersey, and
01:05:51.050 --> 01:05:52.230
the--it's on the front page of
01:05:52.230 --> 01:05:54.100
every newspaper in the world
01:05:54.100 --> 01:05:56.150
every day.
01:05:56.150 --> 01:05:58.160
Is that a--is that just a matter
01:05:58.160 --> 01:06:00.250
of geopolitics?
01:06:00.250 --> 01:06:02.150
What's that about?
01:06:02.150 --> 01:06:03.160
- Wayne: Well, God chose that
01:06:03.160 --> 01:06:04.270
city, placed his name there
01:06:04.270 --> 01:06:06.080
forever.
01:06:06.080 --> 01:06:07.100
That's repeated a number of
01:06:07.100 --> 01:06:08.040
times in the Old Testament
01:06:08.040 --> 01:06:09.030
Scriptures.
01:06:09.030 --> 01:06:10.020
Even after the Jewish people
01:06:10.020 --> 01:06:12.140
crossed the Red Sea and they
01:06:12.140 --> 01:06:14.180
were about to go forth, God
01:06:15.110 --> 01:06:18.110
ordained a city and a mountain
01:06:18.110 --> 01:06:20.080
where they will worship the Lord
01:06:20.080 --> 01:06:21.150
forever.
01:06:21.150 --> 01:06:22.140
And that's Jerusalem.
01:06:22.140 --> 01:06:23.250
And you know, Jesus said, "I'm
01:06:23.250 --> 01:06:26.020
gonna come back and I'm going to
01:06:26.020 --> 01:06:27.250
sit on my throne in Jerusalem
01:06:27.250 --> 01:06:29.240
and the nations will stream up
01:06:29.240 --> 01:06:31.260
to Jerusalem every year at the
01:06:31.260 --> 01:06:33.090
Feast of Tabernacles and worship
01:06:33.090 --> 01:06:34.270
him there.
01:06:34.270 --> 01:06:35.230
The devil knows that.
01:06:35.230 --> 01:06:37.080
The devil wants that throne.
01:06:37.080 --> 01:06:39.090
And so he's fighting like crazy
01:06:39.090 --> 01:06:40.290
to stop the purposes of God.
01:06:41.030 --> 01:06:44.030
And so there is this focus on
01:06:44.030 --> 01:06:45.260
the epicenter of the world,
01:06:45.260 --> 01:06:47.120
Jerusalem, the nation of Israel.
01:06:47.120 --> 01:06:48.240
And the devil wants to rule
01:06:48.240 --> 01:06:51.190
that place.
01:06:51.190 --> 01:06:52.150
And he's working hard but we
01:06:52.150 --> 01:06:54.050
know who's gonna win; we've read
01:06:54.050 --> 01:06:55.060
the last chapter of the book and
01:06:55.060 --> 01:06:57.230
we know that ultimately he will
01:06:57.230 --> 01:06:59.210
rule and reign forever and ever.
01:06:59.210 --> 01:07:01.240
- Mark: There must be some
01:07:01.240 --> 01:07:02.230
unique challenges in doing
01:07:02.260 --> 01:07:05.260
Christian ministry in Jerusalem
01:07:05.260 --> 01:07:07.240
that would probably be different
01:07:07.240 --> 01:07:09.120
from any--I mean, there are
01:07:09.120 --> 01:07:11.070
challenges anywhere and whether
01:07:11.070 --> 01:07:12.270
in Nigeria or UK but there must
01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:16.000
be some things that are unique
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:17.250
to doing ministry in Israel, and
01:07:17.250 --> 01:07:19.210
particularly in Jerusalem.
01:07:19.210 --> 01:07:21.010
- Wayne: One of our biggest
01:07:21.010 --> 01:07:22.180
challenges is 1700 years of
01:07:22.180 --> 01:07:24.130
history, a tragic history
01:07:24.130 --> 01:07:26.230
between Christians and Jews, and
01:07:26.230 --> 01:07:28.210
there was a theology that
01:07:28.210 --> 01:07:30.040
developed early on in about the
01:07:30.040 --> 01:07:31.270
4th century that we now call
01:07:31.270 --> 01:07:34.020
replacement theology, a teaching
01:07:34.020 --> 01:07:36.200
that the Jewish people are
01:07:36.200 --> 01:07:38.060
passé, they rejected Jesus,
01:07:38.060 --> 01:07:40.090
their own Messiah.
01:07:40.090 --> 01:07:42.030
God has now rejected them.
01:07:42.030 --> 01:07:44.060
God has chosen a new people, the
01:07:44.060 --> 01:07:45.200
church, the Gentile part of the
01:07:45.200 --> 01:07:47.260
church, and out of that, a
01:07:47.260 --> 01:07:50.150
number of Christians have
01:07:50.150 --> 01:07:51.290
twisted the Word of God to think
01:07:51.290 --> 01:07:54.170
if God's rejected Israel, then
01:07:54.170 --> 01:07:56.230
we should reject Israel.
01:07:56.230 --> 01:07:58.090
If God has turned his back on
01:07:58.090 --> 01:07:59.160
the Jewish people, then we
01:07:59.160 --> 01:08:01.030
should turn our back on the
01:08:01.030 --> 01:08:02.010
Jewish people.
01:08:02.010 --> 01:08:03.010
And we see the Jewish people's
01:08:03.010 --> 01:08:04.110
history, much of it tragic
01:08:04.110 --> 01:08:06.050
history, as a reflection of
01:08:06.050 --> 01:08:08.290
God's turning his back on them,
01:08:08.290 --> 01:08:11.090
cursing them, and yet we know
01:08:11.160 --> 01:08:14.160
that he loves them with an
01:08:14.160 --> 01:08:15.170
everlasting love.
01:08:15.170 --> 01:08:16.170
So if we say to Jewish people
01:08:16.170 --> 01:08:18.130
today, "Jesus loves you," well,
01:08:18.130 --> 01:08:21.020
they'll say, "He's got a funny
01:08:21.020 --> 01:08:22.150
way of telling us that he loves
01:08:22.150 --> 01:08:23.190
us."
01:08:23.190 --> 01:08:25.030
And so we've seen, during the
01:08:25.030 --> 01:08:27.150
Crusades, where many Jews were
01:08:27.150 --> 01:08:29.060
killed, synagogues burned to the
01:08:29.060 --> 01:08:31.160
ground, by people carrying the
01:08:31.160 --> 01:08:33.240
cross.
01:08:33.240 --> 01:08:34.270
We saw the pogroms in Eastern
01:08:34.270 --> 01:08:36.250
church circles in Russia, places
01:08:37.120 --> 01:08:40.120
like that.
01:08:40.120 --> 01:08:42.150
We see the Holocaust, 6 million
01:08:42.150 --> 01:08:44.270
Jews killed in a so-called
01:08:44.270 --> 01:08:46.140
Christian nation.
01:08:46.140 --> 01:08:47.280
And Hitler himself, quoted
01:08:47.280 --> 01:08:50.080
Martin Luther to justify his
01:08:50.080 --> 01:08:52.170
anti-Jew policies.
01:08:52.260 --> 01:08:55.260
And so to preach the gospel with
01:08:55.260 --> 01:08:57.290
history behind us, tragic
01:08:57.290 --> 01:09:00.110
history, makes it much more
01:09:00.110 --> 01:09:01.120
difficult.
01:09:01.120 --> 01:09:02.280
- Mark: Because you've got all
01:09:02.280 --> 01:09:03.200
of that hurt and all of that
01:09:03.200 --> 01:09:06.020
woundedness in the name of
01:09:06.020 --> 01:09:07.160
Christianity, so the challenge
01:09:07.160 --> 01:09:09.260
has got to be to present the
01:09:09.260 --> 01:09:11.110
real face of Christ, to overcome
01:09:11.120 --> 01:09:14.120
all of that replacement theology
01:09:14.200 --> 01:09:17.200
and all of that, and be the real
01:09:17.200 --> 01:09:19.180
presence of Christ in that
01:09:19.180 --> 01:09:21.190
community.
01:09:21.190 --> 01:09:22.160
And you've been doing that for
01:09:22.160 --> 01:09:23.160
more than 3 decades.
01:09:23.160 --> 01:09:25.030
Congratulations.
01:09:25.030 --> 01:09:26.160
It's a wonderful, wonderful
01:09:26.160 --> 01:09:27.180
work.
01:09:27.180 --> 01:09:28.140
Thank God.
01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:30.000
- Wayne: Thank you very much.
01:09:30.000 --> 01:09:31.220
- Mark: I wanna ask you
01:09:31.220 --> 01:09:32.260
about--this is kind of a new
01:09:32.260 --> 01:09:34.050
phase in your life in ministry
01:09:34.050 --> 01:09:36.050
as you've begun to turn more of
01:09:36.050 --> 01:09:38.010
the pastoring responsibilities
01:09:38.010 --> 01:09:39.260
to others, you've begun a new
01:09:39.260 --> 01:09:40.290
organization, F-I-R-M, FIRM,
01:09:40.290 --> 01:09:43.000
along with our mutual friend,
01:09:43.000 --> 01:09:44.270
Jack Hayford.
01:09:44.270 --> 01:09:45.250
Tell me something about what
01:09:45.250 --> 01:09:46.200
FIRM is all about.
01:09:46.200 --> 01:09:47.250
- Wayne: FIRM stands for
01:09:47.250 --> 01:09:48.170
Fellowship of Israel Related
01:09:48.170 --> 01:09:49.190
Ministries.
01:09:49.190 --> 01:09:50.170
So, as I mentioned earlier, my
01:09:50.170 --> 01:09:52.070
heart for unity and cooperation
01:09:52.070 --> 01:09:54.260
between ministries.
01:09:54.260 --> 01:09:56.120
We're inviting all ministries
01:09:56.120 --> 01:09:59.120
that relate in some way to the
01:09:59.120 --> 01:10:00.250
Jewish people worldwide, the
01:10:00.250 --> 01:10:03.060
Jews or Arabs in the land of
01:10:05.080 --> 01:10:06.120
Israel, and tell their story, to
01:10:06.120 --> 01:10:09.080
pray for them, to equip them and
01:10:10.110 --> 01:10:13.110
help them be more effective
01:10:13.110 --> 01:10:14.270
in the work that they do.
01:10:14.270 --> 01:10:16.060
We're introducing them to
01:10:16.060 --> 01:10:17.050
pastors and churches around
01:10:17.050 --> 01:10:18.170
the world and marketplace
01:10:18.170 --> 01:10:19.210
leaders
01:10:19.210 --> 01:10:20.240
so that people know what God
01:10:20.240 --> 01:10:22.060
is doing in the land of Israel.
01:10:22.060 --> 01:10:23.130
We have tours that come to
01:10:23.130 --> 01:10:24.060
Israel and they see the
01:10:24.060 --> 01:10:24.270
the history and hear the
01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:28.250
history, but often don't realize
01:10:28.250 --> 01:10:30.040
that God is moving by his Spirit
01:10:30.040 --> 01:10:31.140
today in Israel and those
01:10:31.140 --> 01:10:33.150
stories need to be told.
01:10:33.150 --> 01:10:35.110
And those ministries that are
01:10:35.110 --> 01:10:36.110
working effectively need help.
01:10:36.110 --> 01:10:39.030
And they need prayer power.
01:10:39.030 --> 01:10:40.290
They need financial help.
01:10:40.290 --> 01:10:42.060
And we wanna do that
01:10:42.060 --> 01:10:43.110
effectively.
01:10:43.110 --> 01:10:45.090
- Mark: I think a lot of people
01:10:45.090 --> 01:10:46.090
are maybe ignorant of--I don't
01:10:46.090 --> 01:10:48.060
mean that in a hard way,
01:10:48.060 --> 01:10:50.110
ignorant, but unlearned about
01:10:50.110 --> 01:10:52.020
the kinds of ministries
01:10:52.020 --> 01:10:53.120
that are in Israel.
01:10:53.120 --> 01:10:55.050
What kind of numbers
01:10:55.050 --> 01:10:56.040
are we talking about?
01:10:56.040 --> 01:10:57.070
I mean, is there--are they three
01:10:57.070 --> 01:10:58.150
ministries, five ministries,
01:10:58.150 --> 01:10:59.290
what are we talking about
01:10:59.290 --> 01:11:00.260
in F-I-R-M?
01:11:00.260 --> 01:11:02.120
- Wayne: Well, I would say
01:11:02.120 --> 01:11:03.210
there's probably well over 100
01:11:03.210 --> 01:11:04.150
in Israel that we would say are
01:11:04.150 --> 01:11:06.180
doing good work.
01:11:06.180 --> 01:11:07.190
And then there are ministries
01:11:07.190 --> 01:11:09.000
around the world that bless
01:11:09.000 --> 01:11:10.100
the Jewish people in one way
01:11:10.100 --> 01:11:11.220
or another.
01:11:11.220 --> 01:11:12.190
And we are inviting people to
01:11:12.190 --> 01:11:15.120
join this fellowship.
01:11:15.120 --> 01:11:16.250
We have well over 20 now that
01:11:16.250 --> 01:11:18.110
we've vetted.
01:11:18.110 --> 01:11:20.060
We've invited to come but we
01:11:20.060 --> 01:11:21.040
also want them to be the kinds
01:11:21.040 --> 01:11:22.260
of ministry that we can--we know
01:11:22.260 --> 01:11:24.220
there's credibility.
01:11:24.220 --> 01:11:26.000
And we know there's
01:11:26.000 --> 01:11:26.260
accountability.
01:11:26.260 --> 01:11:27.190
And so we're telling their
01:11:27.190 --> 01:11:29.250
story.
01:11:29.250 --> 01:11:30.180
- Mark: I know that at the end
01:11:30.180 --> 01:11:32.140
of May you're putting on this
01:11:32.140 --> 01:11:33.160
conference called "The Jerusalem
01:11:33.160 --> 01:11:35.110
Encounter."
01:11:35.110 --> 01:11:36.120
In a moment, I'm gonna ask you
01:11:36.120 --> 01:11:38.000
to tell us more about it but
01:11:38.000 --> 01:11:39.160
I've got a video here I want you
01:11:39.160 --> 01:11:41.270
to--let's see the video and then
01:11:41.270 --> 01:11:43.250
you tell us something about what
01:11:43.250 --> 01:11:45.050
it means, all right?
01:11:45.050 --> 01:11:46.060
- Wayne: Great.
01:11:46.060 --> 01:11:46.250
- Mark: Let's go to
01:11:46.250 --> 01:11:47.130
- male: The roar of the
01:12:05.190 --> 01:12:06.120
winds, the spray of the ocean.
01:12:07.020 --> 01:12:10.020
The call that beckons
01:12:10.020 --> 01:12:12.030
over land and sea.
01:12:12.030 --> 01:12:14.070
A calling to return home.
01:12:15.060 --> 01:12:18.060
A calling to the roots of our
01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:19.230
tree, the seeds of your faith,
01:12:19.230 --> 01:12:22.030
wherever they sown.
01:12:26.170 --> 01:12:29.170
The chosen people,
01:12:29.170 --> 01:12:31.070
the land of promise.
01:12:31.070 --> 01:12:33.120
To read his Word
01:12:33.120 --> 01:12:35.210
where it was spoken.
01:12:35.210 --> 01:12:38.010
To ignite great flame and
01:12:38.010 --> 01:12:39.070
abundant fire.
01:12:39.070 --> 01:12:41.040
The land we read about is alive
01:12:41.040 --> 01:12:43.170
Her heartbeat is a drum,
01:13:06.250 --> 01:13:08.240
There's a stirring
01:13:26.180 --> 01:13:29.180
in our generation to know his
01:13:29.180 --> 01:13:31.260
heart, step into the Promised
01:13:31.260 --> 01:13:34.080
Land, walk into destiny.
01:13:36.190 --> 01:13:39.190
Encounter Jerusalem.
01:13:39.190 --> 01:13:41.170
[audience applauding]
01:13:47.030 --> 01:13:48.040
- Mark: Wow.
01:13:48.040 --> 01:13:50.170
Powerful, powerful.
01:13:50.170 --> 01:13:52.080
Encounter Jerusalem
01:13:52.080 --> 01:13:53.140
in May of 2016.
01:13:53.140 --> 01:13:55.290
Leading up to that,
01:13:55.290 --> 01:13:57.190
tell us about the tour.
01:13:57.190 --> 01:13:58.170
There's a tour that people can
01:13:58.170 --> 01:14:00.050
take with you personally.
01:14:00.050 --> 01:14:01.220
Is that right?
01:14:01.220 --> 01:14:02.170
- Wayne: Right, May 24 to May
01:14:02.170 --> 01:14:03.270
the conference itself.
01:14:05.290 --> 01:14:07.000
And so it'll be a little
01:14:07.000 --> 01:14:08.250
unusual.
01:14:08.250 --> 01:14:09.180
We'll go to places where we'll
01:14:09.180 --> 01:14:10.230
meet leaders of congregations
01:14:10.230 --> 01:14:13.000
and ministries in various
01:14:13.000 --> 01:14:15.020
geographical areas of Israel.
01:14:15.020 --> 01:14:16.210
We'll pray with those leaders.
01:14:16.210 --> 01:14:18.160
We'll--it'll be like
01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:19.260
a prayer tour.
01:14:19.260 --> 01:14:21.010
And then we've got a young
01:14:21.010 --> 01:14:21.290
they'll do rappelling, Jeeping,
01:14:24.140 --> 01:14:26.190
they'll be riding camels,
01:14:26.190 --> 01:14:27.230
they'll be camping around
01:14:27.230 --> 01:14:29.180
the Sea of Galilee, outside,
01:14:29.180 --> 01:14:31.070
under the stars.
01:14:31.070 --> 01:14:32.170
- Mark: Great.
01:14:32.170 --> 01:14:33.060
- Wayne: And it'll be a cheaper
01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:33.280
tour.
01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:34.220
And air conditioning comes
01:14:34.220 --> 01:14:37.040
for free, in the open air,
01:14:37.040 --> 01:14:39.220
so we've got lots of options
01:14:39.220 --> 01:14:41.240
so if anybody wants to go,
01:14:41.240 --> 01:14:43.090
it's jerusalemencounter.com.
01:14:43.090 --> 01:14:45.170
And all of those different types
01:14:45.170 --> 01:14:47.060
of tours will be advertised.
01:14:47.060 --> 01:14:49.020
And we're doing it at a great
01:14:49.020 --> 01:14:51.000
price and, for young adults,
01:14:51.000 --> 01:14:53.040
we've got some subsidies that'll
01:14:53.040 --> 01:14:54.140
bring the price down even more.
01:14:54.140 --> 01:14:55.290
- Mark: Wonderful.
01:14:55.290 --> 01:14:56.250
That sounds exciting.
01:14:56.250 --> 01:14:57.210
I did, among all the many tours
01:14:57.210 --> 01:15:00.030
I've done, I did the Jeep
01:15:00.030 --> 01:15:01.150
experience one time in the
01:15:01.150 --> 01:15:03.020
desert out there.
01:15:03.020 --> 01:15:04.010
It was really, really cool and I
01:15:04.010 --> 01:15:05.170
urge anybody to go and the
01:15:05.170 --> 01:15:06.230
opportunity to travel with you
01:15:06.230 --> 01:15:08.110
personally should be a great,
01:15:08.110 --> 01:15:10.040
great thing.
01:15:10.040 --> 01:15:11.050
Now tell me about the conference
01:15:11.050 --> 01:15:13.060
then and some of the speakers
01:15:13.060 --> 01:15:14.210
and some of the things that
01:15:14.210 --> 01:15:15.260
people that come and do the tour
01:15:15.260 --> 01:15:17.190
or and/or come just for the
01:15:17.190 --> 01:15:20.120
conference, what happens there?
01:15:20.120 --> 01:15:21.280
- Wayne: Right.
01:15:21.280 --> 01:15:22.190
Well, one of the things we're
01:15:22.190 --> 01:15:23.100
doing through FIRM is really
01:15:23.100 --> 01:15:24.200
trying to awaken the younger
01:15:24.200 --> 01:15:26.250
generation to what God's doing
01:15:26.250 --> 01:15:28.120
with the Jewish people in
01:15:28.120 --> 01:15:29.120
the nation of Israel.
01:15:29.120 --> 01:15:30.180
You know, a lot of older people,
01:15:30.180 --> 01:15:32.260
if there's an Israel conference,
01:15:32.260 --> 01:15:34.170
they'll come, they're excited.
01:15:34.170 --> 01:15:36.040
And some who are much older
01:15:36.040 --> 01:15:38.070
remember the Holocaust and they
01:15:38.070 --> 01:15:40.120
remember the rebirth of
01:15:40.120 --> 01:15:41.200
the nation of Israel out of
01:15:41.200 --> 01:15:42.270
the ashes of the Holocaust.
01:15:42.270 --> 01:15:44.100
They were alive to see the
01:15:44.100 --> 01:15:45.160
Six-Day War and the miraculous
01:15:45.160 --> 01:15:47.060
victory of Israel over their
01:15:47.060 --> 01:15:48.180
enemies.
01:15:48.180 --> 01:15:49.170
And all kinds of miraculous
01:15:49.170 --> 01:15:50.260
things that have happened in
01:15:50.260 --> 01:15:52.000
history.
01:15:52.000 --> 01:15:54.040
But young people, especially
01:15:54.040 --> 01:15:55.130
milennials between the age of 19
01:15:55.130 --> 01:15:56.160
and 36, have not witnessed those
01:15:58.050 --> 01:16:01.070
kinds of things in their
01:16:01.070 --> 01:16:02.190
generation.
01:16:02.190 --> 01:16:03.280
And so we're trying to get our
01:16:03.280 --> 01:16:05.040
message especially to a younger
01:16:05.040 --> 01:16:06.100
generation.
01:16:06.100 --> 01:16:07.040
So we have speakers that, I
01:16:07.040 --> 01:16:08.040
think, really can gear
01:16:08.040 --> 01:16:10.070
themselves to an audience like
01:16:10.070 --> 01:16:11.220
that.
01:16:11.220 --> 01:16:12.130
People like Jentezen Franklin
01:16:12.130 --> 01:16:13.150
who will be there.
01:16:13.150 --> 01:16:14.240
Francis Chan who relates very
01:16:14.240 --> 01:16:17.040
much to young adults.
01:16:17.040 --> 01:16:18.240
We have Jack Hayford although a
01:16:18.240 --> 01:16:20.210
little older he's--he can speak
01:16:20.230 --> 01:16:23.230
to any generation.
01:16:23.230 --> 01:16:24.130
- Mark: Any generation.
01:16:24.130 --> 01:16:25.100
- Wayne: And then
01:16:25.100 --> 01:16:26.030
Rich Wilkerson Jr., who really
01:16:26.030 --> 01:16:28.000
is speaking to youth today.
01:16:28.000 --> 01:16:29.130
And so we've got top-notch
01:16:29.130 --> 01:16:31.040
speakers.
01:16:31.040 --> 01:16:31.290
And then speakers from the land
01:16:31.290 --> 01:16:33.100
so that they'll get an authentic
01:16:33.100 --> 01:16:35.010
local Israeli experience through
01:16:35.010 --> 01:16:36.240
that whole conference.
01:16:36.240 --> 01:16:38.020
- Mark: Wonderful.
01:16:38.020 --> 01:16:38.240
May 24.
01:16:38.240 --> 01:16:40.090
- Wayne: That's the tour that
01:16:40.090 --> 01:16:41.110
begins on the 24th.
01:16:41.110 --> 01:16:42.210
- Mark: And then the conference
01:16:42.210 --> 01:16:43.280
begins?
01:16:43.280 --> 01:16:44.220
- Wayne: 31st.
01:16:44.220 --> 01:16:45.090
- Mark: The 31st.
01:16:45.090 --> 01:16:46.040
- Wayne: Through June 2.
01:16:46.040 --> 01:16:47.150
- Mark: Wonderful.
01:16:47.150 --> 01:16:48.040
It's gonna be a great
01:16:48.040 --> 01:16:48.220
experience.
01:16:48.220 --> 01:16:50.040
I wanna shift gears just a
01:16:50.040 --> 01:16:50.280
little bit and talk to you about
01:16:50.280 --> 01:16:52.010
something that has been
01:16:52.010 --> 01:16:53.090
concerning me a great deal
01:16:53.090 --> 01:16:54.210
lately as a former university
01:16:54.210 --> 01:16:55.240
president at two different
01:16:55.240 --> 01:16:57.030
universities.
01:16:57.030 --> 01:16:58.200
I've watched not just in secular
01:16:58.200 --> 01:17:01.150
state universities, but even on
01:17:01.150 --> 01:17:04.010
the campus of some well-known
01:17:04.010 --> 01:17:05.110
Christian universities.
01:17:05.110 --> 01:17:07.180
I have become alarmed at
01:17:07.180 --> 01:17:10.030
a rising tide of anti-Israeli
01:17:10.030 --> 01:17:12.210
sentiment.
01:17:12.210 --> 01:17:14.030
And it's concerning me in a very
01:17:14.030 --> 01:17:16.280
real way, not just anti-Israeli
01:17:16.280 --> 01:17:18.240
sentiment, but I'm not sure to
01:17:18.240 --> 01:17:21.140
what extent somebody can be
01:17:21.140 --> 01:17:22.160
thoroughgoing anti-Israel and
01:17:22.160 --> 01:17:25.110
not be to a certain extent
01:17:25.110 --> 01:17:26.250
anti-Semitic.
01:17:26.250 --> 01:17:27.230
And it's concerning me
01:17:27.230 --> 01:17:29.280
very much, Wayne.
01:17:29.280 --> 01:17:32.010
I wonder if you have a word on
01:17:32.010 --> 01:17:33.010
it.
01:17:33.010 --> 01:17:34.010
- Wayne: Well, this is one of
01:17:34.010 --> 01:17:34.220
the reasons why we formed FIRM,
01:17:34.220 --> 01:17:36.100
this Fellowship of Israel
01:17:36.100 --> 01:17:37.210
Related Ministries, in order to
01:17:37.210 --> 01:17:39.030
get to that generation that are
01:17:39.030 --> 01:17:40.210
definitely pulling away their
01:17:40.210 --> 01:17:43.200
support from Israel.
01:17:43.200 --> 01:17:45.280
I think there are a number of
01:17:45.280 --> 01:17:46.290
reasons for it.
01:17:46.290 --> 01:17:47.250
I think your average, even
01:17:47.250 --> 01:17:48.270
Christian university student who
01:17:48.270 --> 01:17:51.140
enters university--you've been
01:17:51.140 --> 01:17:53.280
a president, you know this--I
01:17:53.280 --> 01:17:54.290
would say, somewhat biblically
01:17:54.290 --> 01:17:57.160
illiterate.
01:17:57.160 --> 01:17:58.270
There are exceptions to that
01:17:58.270 --> 01:17:59.220
rule.
01:17:59.220 --> 01:18:00.110
But if you don't know the Word
01:18:00.110 --> 01:18:01.210
of God, you don't know the
01:18:01.210 --> 01:18:02.170
promises concerning the Jewish
01:18:02.170 --> 01:18:03.200
people and the everlasting
01:18:03.200 --> 01:18:05.090
covenants that have been made
01:18:05.090 --> 01:18:07.010
with Israel, then you're gonna
01:18:07.010 --> 01:18:08.260
look at the world through the
01:18:08.260 --> 01:18:09.240
eyes of the media and the news
01:18:09.240 --> 01:18:11.130
and a slanted version of the
01:18:11.130 --> 01:18:14.020
news, and you might tend to go
01:18:14.020 --> 01:18:15.170
for the underdog.
01:18:15.230 --> 01:18:18.230
I mean, Israel now looks like
01:18:18.230 --> 01:18:20.110
Goliath and the Palestinians,
01:18:20.110 --> 01:18:23.060
David.
01:18:23.060 --> 01:18:24.180
But the reality is, Israel is
01:18:24.180 --> 01:18:26.070
surrounded by people that the
01:18:26.140 --> 01:18:29.140
majority of whom would love to
01:18:29.140 --> 01:18:31.280
see Israel disappear off the
01:18:31.280 --> 01:18:32.280
map.
01:18:32.280 --> 01:18:34.000
- Mark: I always say Israel is
01:18:34.000 --> 01:18:34.290
like a really nice family living
01:18:34.290 --> 01:18:37.000
in a really nice house in a
01:18:37.000 --> 01:18:38.150
really bad neighborhood.
01:18:38.150 --> 01:18:40.030
- Wayne: Yeah.
01:18:40.030 --> 01:18:40.210
- Mark: And they're just
01:18:40.210 --> 01:18:42.040
surrounded.
01:18:42.040 --> 01:18:42.280
If every Arab country in the
01:18:43.030 --> 01:18:46.030
world disarmed and put their
01:18:46.030 --> 01:18:48.120
armies aside tomorrow, Israel
01:18:48.280 --> 01:18:51.280
does nothing.
01:18:51.280 --> 01:18:52.220
If Israel disarmed in the
01:18:52.220 --> 01:18:54.220
morning, they're finished.
01:18:54.220 --> 01:18:56.080
- Wayne: Exactly.
01:18:56.080 --> 01:18:57.040
- Mark: And this is the message
01:18:57.040 --> 01:18:58.150
that is not reaching the
01:18:58.150 --> 01:18:59.270
American campus.
01:18:59.270 --> 01:19:01.150
- Wayne: Israel wants peace.
01:19:01.150 --> 01:19:02.200
I've lived there 32 years.
01:19:02.200 --> 01:19:04.120
I know the heart of the people.
01:19:04.120 --> 01:19:05.220
They're tired of war, they're
01:19:05.220 --> 01:19:06.250
tired of terrorism.
01:19:06.250 --> 01:19:08.000
And Israel's made gestures,
01:19:08.000 --> 01:19:10.220
pretty bold moves, to really
01:19:10.220 --> 01:19:12.050
show that they want peace.
01:19:12.050 --> 01:19:14.060
They gave up the Sinai, which
01:19:14.060 --> 01:19:15.120
they won in a defensive war, and
01:19:15.120 --> 01:19:17.270
oil resources in the Sinai.
01:19:17.270 --> 01:19:20.090
Gave it up for the sake of peace
01:19:20.090 --> 01:19:22.240
with Egypt.
01:19:22.240 --> 01:19:24.010
They've done similar things with
01:19:24.010 --> 01:19:25.240
other neighbors, Jordan as well.
01:19:25.240 --> 01:19:28.050
And there's clearly proof that,
01:19:28.100 --> 01:19:31.100
for the most part, Israelis want
01:19:31.100 --> 01:19:33.070
to be at peace with their Arab
01:19:33.070 --> 01:19:35.090
neighbors.
01:19:35.090 --> 01:19:36.160
When we got to Israel, there was
01:19:36.160 --> 01:19:37.240
actually a very good
01:19:37.240 --> 01:19:38.260
relationship between Palestinian
01:19:38.260 --> 01:19:40.050
Arabs and Jews, doing business
01:19:40.050 --> 01:19:42.030
together, sitting in the same
01:19:42.030 --> 01:19:43.210
restaurant together.
01:19:43.210 --> 01:19:45.110
And it's only been in the last
01:19:45.110 --> 01:19:47.040
20 years or so where we've seen
01:19:47.040 --> 01:19:48.290
this uprising and I would call
01:19:48.290 --> 01:19:51.260
it a demonic hatred against the
01:19:51.260 --> 01:19:53.220
Jewish people.
01:19:53.220 --> 01:19:54.260
Anti-Semitism is raising its
01:19:54.260 --> 01:19:56.000
ugly head all over the world
01:19:56.000 --> 01:19:57.210
today.
01:19:57.210 --> 01:19:59.100
And I believe it's a work of the
01:19:59.100 --> 01:20:00.200
enemy and I believe that we've
01:20:00.200 --> 01:20:02.120
got to go back to God's Word,
01:20:02.120 --> 01:20:04.070
believe it, trust in God's
01:20:04.070 --> 01:20:06.280
promises, and stand with what he
01:20:06.280 --> 01:20:08.250
stands for.
01:20:08.250 --> 01:20:10.270
- Mark: I just read an
01:20:10.270 --> 01:20:12.090
astonishing quote from the
01:20:12.090 --> 01:20:13.210
President of the Israel
01:20:13.210 --> 01:20:15.090
Fellowship in Marseille in
01:20:15.230 --> 01:20:18.230
France, urging French Jews to
01:20:18.230 --> 01:20:21.170
quit wearing skull caps
01:20:21.170 --> 01:20:24.140
in public.
01:20:24.140 --> 01:20:25.090
He said, "It's time
01:20:25.090 --> 01:20:26.160
for us to hide."
01:20:26.160 --> 01:20:27.240
Now, I did see the Chief Rabbi
01:20:27.240 --> 01:20:28.210
oppose that statement but the
01:20:28.210 --> 01:20:30.140
President of Israel Association
01:20:30.140 --> 01:20:32.010
in Marseille urging Jews.
01:20:32.010 --> 01:20:33.270
He said, "It's time for Jews
01:20:33.270 --> 01:20:35.060
in France to hide."
01:20:35.060 --> 01:20:36.260
I was shocked and horrified.
01:20:36.260 --> 01:20:38.230
This is a--they're urging--this
01:20:39.000 --> 01:20:42.000
kind of urging reveals a very
01:20:42.120 --> 01:20:45.120
dark beginning in Europe.
01:20:45.120 --> 01:20:47.040
And I'm very, very concerned
01:20:47.040 --> 01:20:48.150
about it.
01:20:48.150 --> 01:20:49.110
- Wayne: One of the positive
01:20:49.110 --> 01:20:50.020
things, if you can try to find
01:20:50.020 --> 01:20:51.260
something positive in all of
01:20:51.260 --> 01:20:52.270
this, is that Jewish people are
01:20:52.270 --> 01:20:54.110
returning to the land of Israel
01:20:54.110 --> 01:20:56.220
and seeing that as a safe haven
01:20:56.220 --> 01:20:58.230
in comparison to the threats
01:20:58.230 --> 01:21:00.250
they feel around the world
01:21:00.250 --> 01:21:01.210
today.
01:21:01.210 --> 01:21:02.290
And that's according to
01:21:02.290 --> 01:21:03.260
the promises of God.
01:21:03.260 --> 01:21:04.270
All through the Scriptures, in
01:21:04.270 --> 01:21:06.050
the Hebrew Scriptures, there is
01:21:06.050 --> 01:21:09.030
the prophecy of the return of
01:21:09.030 --> 01:21:10.270
the Jews to the same piece of
01:21:10.270 --> 01:21:12.030
real estate promised to Abraham,
01:21:12.030 --> 01:21:13.130
Isaac, and Jacob.
01:21:13.130 --> 01:21:14.140
It's happening in our day.
01:21:14.140 --> 01:21:16.060
- Mark: If I were a teacher or
01:21:18.000 --> 01:21:21.000
a parent or a grandparent and I
01:21:21.000 --> 01:21:22.270
had young adults that I wanted
01:21:22.270 --> 01:21:24.180
to encounter Jerusalem and
01:21:24.180 --> 01:21:27.050
encounter your theology and your
01:21:27.050 --> 01:21:29.160
teaching and your ministry and
01:21:29.160 --> 01:21:30.250
to get a clearer view of all
01:21:31.200 --> 01:21:34.200
this than they can get on CNN,
01:21:34.200 --> 01:21:36.110
would I do well to send them to
01:21:36.110 --> 01:21:38.260
Jerusalem Encounter in May?
01:21:38.260 --> 01:21:40.240
- Wayne: Absolutely.
01:21:40.240 --> 01:21:41.160
We're gonna be showing them and
01:21:41.160 --> 01:21:43.100
not just teaching them what's
01:21:43.100 --> 01:21:44.230
really going on in the land.
01:21:44.230 --> 01:21:46.040
And we've had these kinds of
01:21:46.040 --> 01:21:49.020
things happen before, not of
01:21:49.020 --> 01:21:50.220
this size, but young people
01:21:50.240 --> 01:21:53.240
going back, saying,
01:21:53.240 --> 01:21:55.120
"It's not what they told us.
01:21:55.120 --> 01:21:57.040
I've seen it with my own eyes.
01:21:57.040 --> 01:21:58.160
I've experienced it
01:21:58.160 --> 01:22:00.280
face to face."
01:22:00.280 --> 01:22:02.010
- Mark: I was in a meeting with
01:22:02.010 --> 01:22:03.000
Benjamin Netanyahu and he said
01:22:03.000 --> 01:22:04.190
a statement.
01:22:04.190 --> 01:22:05.270
It certainly popped my eyes
01:22:05.270 --> 01:22:07.210
open.
01:22:07.210 --> 01:22:09.080
He said the--given the history
01:22:09.080 --> 01:22:11.260
of what we're talking about,
01:22:11.260 --> 01:22:12.260
about statements, crazy
01:22:12.260 --> 01:22:14.050
statements about Martin Luther
01:22:14.050 --> 01:22:15.070
and things like that and the
01:22:15.070 --> 01:22:16.080
replacement theology, Netanyahu
01:22:16.080 --> 01:22:18.090
said, "The greatest friend
01:22:18.090 --> 01:22:19.170
Israel has in the world
01:22:19.170 --> 01:22:21.250
are American Evangelical
01:22:21.250 --> 01:22:23.230
Christians."
01:22:23.230 --> 01:22:24.240
I was shocked when he said that.
01:22:24.240 --> 01:22:26.250
That's an amazing statement from
01:22:26.250 --> 01:22:27.230
the Prime Minister.
01:22:27.230 --> 01:22:28.230
- Wayne: He says it often.
01:22:28.230 --> 01:22:29.210
He says it often but here we are
01:22:29.210 --> 01:22:32.010
dealing also with a younger
01:22:32.010 --> 01:22:33.020
generation that does not have
01:22:33.020 --> 01:22:34.170
that tradition and that biblical
01:22:34.170 --> 01:22:36.220
knowledge and this is an
01:22:36.220 --> 01:22:39.110
alarming reality.
01:22:39.110 --> 01:22:41.130
And I think Israel's now
01:22:41.130 --> 01:22:43.000
wakening to that fact as well.
01:22:43.000 --> 01:22:44.230
And they're actually encouraging
01:22:44.230 --> 01:22:47.050
young evangelicals to come to
01:22:47.050 --> 01:22:49.250
Israel and are doing their best
01:22:49.250 --> 01:22:52.070
to show them the true face of
01:22:52.070 --> 01:22:54.050
the nation.
01:22:54.050 --> 01:22:55.020
- Mark: And not just
01:22:55.020 --> 01:22:55.240
the biblical history but just
01:22:55.240 --> 01:22:57.130
the history.
01:22:57.130 --> 01:22:58.190
They--there's very few courses
01:22:58.190 --> 01:23:00.250
taught on the American campus of
01:23:00.250 --> 01:23:02.210
things.
01:23:02.210 --> 01:23:03.250
How do they understand the
01:23:03.250 --> 01:23:04.200
Balfour Agreement?
01:23:04.200 --> 01:23:05.200
How do they understand what 1948
01:23:05.200 --> 01:23:07.010
was about?
01:23:07.010 --> 01:23:08.010
The Six-Day War, the '70s,
01:23:08.010 --> 01:23:10.130
how--that has to be taught and
01:23:10.130 --> 01:23:13.020
it has to be taught from the
01:23:13.020 --> 01:23:14.100
right world view or people come
01:23:14.100 --> 01:23:15.160
out with a very skewed view of
01:23:15.160 --> 01:23:16.280
the Middle East.
01:23:16.280 --> 01:23:18.050
- Wayne: Absolutely.
01:23:18.050 --> 01:23:18.240
have many articles now that are
01:23:22.150 --> 01:23:23.190
explaining the history, the
01:23:23.290 --> 01:23:26.290
background, the theology,
01:23:26.290 --> 01:23:28.140
stand with Israel the way we do.
01:23:30.260 --> 01:23:32.160
So that's an excellent site to
01:23:32.160 --> 01:23:34.150
get these resources.
01:23:34.150 --> 01:23:35.170
We're also really emphasizing
01:23:35.170 --> 01:23:37.160
social media.
01:23:37.160 --> 01:23:39.030
So we use Instagram, Facebook,
01:23:39.030 --> 01:23:40.220
Twitter, to get that message out
01:23:40.220 --> 01:23:43.000
and we're getting incredible
01:23:43.000 --> 01:23:44.120
engagement from all over the
01:23:44.120 --> 01:23:45.200
world.
01:23:45.200 --> 01:23:46.100
And now, especially from a
01:23:46.100 --> 01:23:47.140
younger generation that are
01:23:47.140 --> 01:23:49.010
seeing what we're saying.
01:23:49.010 --> 01:23:50.260
They're seeing that it has
01:23:50.260 --> 01:23:51.260
biblical basis and that they
01:23:51.260 --> 01:23:54.000
need to do something about it.
01:23:54.000 --> 01:23:55.150
- Mark: Let me--we just have
01:23:55.150 --> 01:23:57.250
a couple of minutes.
01:23:57.250 --> 01:23:58.260
I wanna ask you, probably,
01:23:58.260 --> 01:23:59.240
the most difficult question of
01:23:59.240 --> 01:24:00.270
the night.
01:24:00.270 --> 01:24:01.270
So here it is.
01:24:01.270 --> 01:24:02.230
What if I'm also a parent or
01:24:02.230 --> 01:24:04.250
a grandparent or whatever and I
01:24:04.250 --> 01:24:05.280
say, "I don't wanna send my
01:24:05.280 --> 01:24:06.250
young person to Jerusalem right
01:24:06.250 --> 01:24:08.070
now because it's dangerous."
01:24:08.070 --> 01:24:10.000
How would you answer?
01:24:10.000 --> 01:24:11.190
- Wayne: Well, first of all, we
01:24:11.190 --> 01:24:13.200
need to have a sense of trust in
01:24:14.060 --> 01:24:17.060
God that he's gonna protect us
01:24:17.060 --> 01:24:18.230
and keep us if it's his will for
01:24:18.230 --> 01:24:20.140
us to visit Israel and see
01:24:20.140 --> 01:24:22.060
what's happening there.
01:24:22.060 --> 01:24:24.040
Statistically, it's safer to be
01:24:24.040 --> 01:24:26.090
in Jerusalem than many American
01:24:26.090 --> 01:24:28.290
large cities.
01:24:28.290 --> 01:24:30.080
- Mark: You got that right.
01:24:30.080 --> 01:24:31.010
- Wayne: And it is absolutely
01:24:31.010 --> 01:24:31.240
true.
01:24:31.240 --> 01:24:32.270
And so I know that guides, and
01:24:32.270 --> 01:24:35.170
I'll be one of those people
01:24:35.170 --> 01:24:36.280
taking people around, we will
01:24:36.280 --> 01:24:38.150
avoid areas that could
01:24:38.150 --> 01:24:39.190
potentially be dangerous.
01:24:39.190 --> 01:24:41.120
And I can assure people they'll
01:24:41.120 --> 01:24:43.210
be safe.
01:24:43.210 --> 01:24:44.120
- Mark: The most well-cared for
01:24:45.040 --> 01:24:48.040
group of people in the whole
01:24:48.040 --> 01:24:49.200
world, watched over, guarded,
01:24:49.200 --> 01:24:51.080
protected, and cared for, are
01:24:51.080 --> 01:24:53.100
tourists in Jerusalem.
01:24:53.100 --> 01:24:55.220
- Wayne: That's true.
01:24:55.220 --> 01:24:56.130
That's for sure.
01:24:56.130 --> 01:24:57.050
- Mark: And I urge the--I urge
01:24:57.050 --> 01:24:58.140
people to go and I urge young
01:24:58.140 --> 01:25:00.090
people to take this.
01:25:00.090 --> 01:25:01.280
Wayne, all the way from
01:25:01.280 --> 01:25:04.080
Jerusalem, Wayne Hilsden,
01:25:04.080 --> 01:25:05.240
thank you so very much for
01:25:05.240 --> 01:25:06.290
being with us.
01:25:06.290 --> 01:25:07.250
- Wayne: Thank you, doctor.
01:25:07.250 --> 01:25:08.200
- Mark: You bless us.
01:25:08.200 --> 01:25:09.180
- Wayne: Bless you.
01:25:09.180 --> 01:25:10.120
- Mark: God bless you.
01:25:10.120 --> 01:25:11.050
And God bless your work.
01:25:11.050 --> 01:25:11.290
- Wayne: Thank you.
01:25:11.290 --> 01:25:13.060
- Mark: Now let me just urge
01:25:13.060 --> 01:25:14.260
you right now, we have heard
01:25:14.260 --> 01:25:17.060
tonight some of the most
01:25:17.060 --> 01:25:18.130
creative minds in the Christian
01:25:18.130 --> 01:25:19.210
community today.
01:25:19.210 --> 01:25:21.080
But God himself is your partner.
01:25:21.080 --> 01:25:24.030
He is the lover of your soul.
01:25:24.030 --> 01:25:26.090
Turn to him and believe him
01:25:26.090 --> 01:25:27.270
for victory through it all
01:25:27.270 --> 01:25:29.120
[audience applauding]
01:25:35.070 --> 01:25:38.070
- announcer: We're so glad
01:25:38.070 --> 01:25:39.020
you've been with us
01:25:39.020 --> 01:25:39.280
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01:25:39.280 --> 01:25:41.110
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01:25:41.110 --> 01:25:43.170
We need your love gifts,
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01:25:46.100 --> 01:25:47.170
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01:25:47.170 --> 01:25:49.000
So write today, Praise The Lord,
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01:26:00.290 --> 01:26:03.020
Now until next time,
01:26:03.020 --> 01:26:04.020
[music]
01:26:24.280 --> 01:26:27.280
Praise...
01:26:29.290 --> 01:26:32.290
Praise the Lord!
01:26:35.110 --> 01:26:38.110
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