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The Leon Show

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April 14, 2016
28:31

The Leon Show, Guest Hugh Ross "Study Science: Discover Truth"

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The Leon Show

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  • -LEON FONTAINE: On the show today, science and the Bible
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  • going hand in hand proclaiming the gospel of Christ.
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  • - Astrophysicist Dr. Hugh Ross found his passion for science
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  • and astronomy at the young age of seven. Ten years later, he
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  • was named the youngest person to serve as Director of
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  • Observations for the Royal Astronomical Society in
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  • Vancouver, British Columbia. Dr. Ross considers the Bible to be
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  • 100 percent without error, and believes that studying science
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  • and history will draw you closer to our Creator. Having degrees
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  • in both Physics and Astronomy, Dr. Ross speaks all over the
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  • world and has penned many successful books. Gentleness and
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  • respect are the key values of Reasons to Believe, where modern
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  • science and faith converge. Dr. Ross and his team seek to teach,
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  • engage and explore truth with people from all walks of life.
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  • Please welcome my guest, Dr. Hugh Ross. [Applause] Dr. Ross,
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  • welcome back!
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  • -DR. HUGH ROSS: Thank you, thank you.
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  • -LEON: Good to have you! [Applause] So we're going to be
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  • talking today from this book, 'A Matter of Days.' And we were
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  • talking on another show about, from a young age was it, you
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  • began to read the Bible and you know, you didn't see it as a
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  • myth or a book that was impossible; you saw it as an
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  • amazing record of actual events that science would agree with.
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  • -HUGH: Right, that was the only holy book I picked up where all
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  • the geography, the history and the science were correct. It was
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  • the only book I picked, holy book I picked up where
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  • actually--
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  • -LEON: How many did you check out?
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  • -HUGH: Well, I checked out the different you know Hinduism,
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  • Buddhism, Islam and Mormonism. I checked out the Baha'i, but the
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  • Bible was the only holy book I picked up where it actually
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  • accurately predicted future scientific events.
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  • -LEON: I love hearing it put that way! So as a scientist now,
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  • you look at all these books and you've really got to struggle to
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  • believe that, which is fine. But at the same time, the Bible or
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  • as I like how you put it, the Bible says something and nature
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  • says the same thing, science says the same thing.
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  • -HUGH: And the Bible said it first. I mean for example, all
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  • the fundamentals of Big Bang cosmology were stated in the
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  • Bible thousands of years before any scientist even had a hint.
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  • For example, we live in a universe that expands from the
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  • space-time beginning.
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  • -LEON: So what, okay. Let me say it in my words, so what
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  • you're saying is that there was a big bang, and that big bang
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  • was God originally creating?
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  • -HUGH: He created all matter, energy, space and time a finite
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  • time ago. And you know, the other holy books talk about gods
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  • creating within space and time; the Bible says, "God created
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  • outside, beyond space and time." And now we can prove
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  • scientifically that the Bible got it right; the other books
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  • did not.
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  • -LEON: Now, you were talking another time about that when you
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  • look at the universe you can see history. Can you explain that
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  • point to me?
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  • -HUGH: Well, the light comes to us through our telescopes and it
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  • takes time for light to travel from distant galaxies and stars
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  • to reach our telescope. So when we look out at a galaxy, we
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  • don't see it as it is now; we saw it when the light left that
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  • galaxy. And God actually put us here in the universe at the one
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  • time in cosmic history where we can witness the entire history
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  • of the universe, from the very first moment of the beginning of
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  • the universe to the present day. We have telescopes powerful
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  • enough to look back and directly witness the cosmic creation
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  • event.
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  • -LEON: Okay, so then wow! Okay, that one blows my mind. So then,
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  • are you saying that when I see a shooting star that's not
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  • happening right now, I'm only seeing it right now?
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  • -HUGH: Well, a shooting star is a little meteorite.
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  • -LEON: That's all it is?
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  • -HUGH: That's coming through the atmosphere so yeah, you're
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  • seeing it as it was a split second ago. But for example,
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  • when you look at the moon you see it as it was 1.5 seconds
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  • ago. When you look at the sun, you're seeing it as it was eight
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  • minutes ago. When you're looking at the Andromeda galaxy, you're
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  • seeing it as it was two and a half million years ago 'cause
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  • that's how long it took the light to reach us.
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  • -LEON: Wow! Okay.
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  • -HUGH: So it's not the same as what it is today. We're looking
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  • at it as it was in the past but we actually have telescopes
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  • powerful enough, we can look at the radiation that's left over
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  • from the cosmic creation event. When we measure the polarization
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  • of that radiation, we get a picture of the universe when it
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  • was only a hundred-billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of
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  • a second old. That's how close we can get to the cosmic
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  • creation event, and it's our ability to directly witness the
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  • cosmic creation event where we get some of our most compelling
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  • scientific evidences that a God beyond space and time created
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  • the whole thing.
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  • -LEON: Is that one of the reasons why you feel so, you
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  • felt so called to astronomy?
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  • -HUGH: Yes, it is. Because the heavens really do declare the
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  • glory of God, and it's the one discipline of science where we
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  • directly witness past events. Now, I do tell people that
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  • because I'm an astronomer I'm ignorant of what's going on
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  • right now. [Laughter] 'Cause all my data comes from the past.
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  • -LEON: Right, right! In this book, 'A Matter of Days,' why
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  • did you write that book?
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  • -HUGH: I wrote that book because I saw this issue of how
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  • long these creation days are as being a huge barrier to people
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  • coming to faith in Christ. Because non-Christians say,
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  • "Well, the Bible teaches that the universe is only thousands
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  • of years old, then I know the Bible is not an accurate book,"
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  • and they don't bother to read anything else in the Bible, so
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  • it's an evangelism barrier. On the other hand, it's not a
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  • salvation issue. How old the earth is, how old the universe
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  • is, has got nothing to do with salvation. But what I've also
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  • noticed is the church is always divided over issues that are not
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  • salvation issues. In the book of Acts, we have a church deeply
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  • divided over circumcision, and it's got nothing to do with
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  • salvation but it almost destroyed the church. Well
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  • today, this is our circumcision issue, that you can't really
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  • become a faithful follower of Jesus Christ unless you believe
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  • the earth and the universe are only thousands of years old. And
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  • you know, people who are scientifically trained say,
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  • "Look, I know that's not true! And if that's what you
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  • Christians insist I believe, then I want nothing to do with
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  • your Bible or your Christian faith."
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  • -LEON: Wow! That is such a good point. So we, as the young
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  • people that are watching or parents that are watching, when
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  • they get this book, 'A Matter of Days' it is saying, "The earth
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  • is old. We have no problem with that." But we're not saying that
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  • man came from some bacteria in a puddle of water.
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  • -HUGH: We're not.
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  • -LEON: Fish, legs, monkeys and my great-great-great-grandpappy
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  • was a monkey eating fleas off of great-great-great-grandma.
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  • That's not what we're saying.
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  • -HUGH: Well, that's what's driving the controversy is this
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  • idea that if you believe that the earth is old, then that
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  • means you've accepted biological evolution and that's not the
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  • case, not the case at all! And in fact, I make the point in the
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  • book, "If it's only billions of years old, you can't sustain a
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  • Darwinian interpretation of life." So that's off the table.
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  • The question is, "What does the Bible say about the age of the
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  • earth and the age of the universe?" And one thing I make
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  • that could help resolve this controversy is, I debate leaders
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  • of young earth creationism who are scientists. We both agree
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  • that if the laws of physics have not changed since God created
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  • the universe, then the universe and the earth must be billions
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  • of years old. And what's interesting is, the Bible tells
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  • us explicitly that the laws of physics do not change. Jeremiah
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  • 33 makes the point where God says, "You change. I don't
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  • change. As proof that I don't change, look at the laws that
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  • govern the heavens and the earth. As they have not changed,
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  • I have not changed." And I've found seven places in the Bible
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  • where it tells us that the laws of physics have not changed from
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  • the creation event until the present moment, and they will
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  • not change until God permanently conquers evil once and for all.
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  • So since evil is still here, the laws of physics are the same as
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  • what they were when God created the universe. And that alone
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  • could resolve this controversy. -LEON: Right! See, as a
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  • thinking Christian, I think that's what I am, I have no
  • 00:08:48.290 --> 00:08:52.100
  • problem with a young earth or an old earth, okay? It doesn't
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  • touch my relationship with Christ.
  • 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.040
  • -HUGH: No, it doesn't.
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  • -LEON: Now, when we start talking about man coming from
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  • monkey and all that kind of stuff, I think that that would
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  • be a crisis for me if I had to believe that to be a Christian.
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  • -HUGH: Especially because of what you see in Romans. I mean,
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  • Romans really ties our salvation doctrine to the idea that we're
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  • all descended from one man and one woman. I mean, that's where
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  • we got our sin from and God sent the second man, Jesus Christ, to
  • 00:09:22.050 --> 00:09:27.020
  • deliver us from the sin that we inherited from the first Adam.
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  • So that really is an important doctrine, and I'm concerned
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  • about that. I mean, I wrote another book called, 'Navigating
  • 00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:37.250
  • Genesis' where I said, "A crisis that's facing the church is this
  • 00:09:37.260 --> 00:09:42.070
  • idea that we humans are not descended from a single man and
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  • a single woman only thousands of years ago." And the problem
  • 00:09:46.020 --> 00:09:50.140
  • there is that really does impact the gospel, and so I see the
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  • church being divided over this young earth-old earth issue when
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  • in fact, we've got a more important crisis that's
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  • challenging the church today.
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  • -LEON: That's very true. I think that the key for us is not
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  • to get dogmatic about something that we anchor our faith in
  • 00:10:05.020 --> 00:10:08.200
  • that's outside of Christ and the cross, like a young earth or an
  • 00:10:08.210 --> 00:10:12.100
  • old earth. We've got to stick to that, let the majors be the
  • 00:10:12.110 --> 00:10:16.020
  • major issues and the minor ones be the minor ones.
  • 00:10:16.030 --> 00:10:18.170
  • -HUGH: Well, I think God blesses us with these kinds of
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  • church-splitting controversies that have got nothing to do with
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  • salvation, because of 2 Corinthians 5. It says, "God has
  • 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:28.040
  • called us to be ambassadors for reconciliation." Our role is to
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  • help non-Christians be reconciled and make peace with
  • 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:36.260
  • God.
  • 00:10:36.270 --> 00:10:37.260
  • -LEON: That is good!
  • 00:10:37.270 --> 00:10:39.030
  • -HUGH: But it won't happen unless we can make peace with
  • 00:10:39.040 --> 00:10:41.000
  • one another.
  • 00:10:41.010 --> 00:10:42.000
  • -LEON: That is really good.
  • 00:10:42.010 --> 00:10:43.060
  • -HUGH: Non-Christians are watching us and they're watching
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  • our demeanor and what concerns me most about this young
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  • earth-old earth debate is how vicious the debate can become.
  • 00:10:48.150 --> 00:10:53.030
  • And so, non-Christians are watching us and you know, we're
  • 00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:56.000
  • called to love one another. So what I'm really passionate about
  • 00:10:56.010 --> 00:10:59.120
  • and why I wrote this book, we need to reconcile this division
  • 00:10:59.130 --> 00:11:04.020
  • amongst us but do it with gentleness, respect and a clear
  • 00:11:04.030 --> 00:11:07.240
  • conscience like it tells us in 1 Peter 'cause non-Christians are
  • 00:11:07.250 --> 00:11:11.160
  • watching us and if we can be reconciled with one another,
  • 00:11:11.170 --> 00:11:14.200
  • they are going to be willing to trust us to let us help them be
  • 00:11:14.210 --> 00:11:18.060
  • reconciled with God. So in that sense, this really is an
  • 00:11:18.070 --> 00:11:21.240
  • important issue.
  • 00:11:21.250 --> 00:11:23.020
  • -LEON: I've watched you debate on other shows and programs, and
  • 00:11:23.030 --> 00:11:25.090
  • I really respect your demeanor and how you walk in love and
  • 00:11:25.100 --> 00:11:29.210
  • humility presenting the evidence. I love that about you!
  • 00:11:29.220 --> 00:11:32.230
  • So we're going to take a break and come back, and I've got some
  • 00:11:32.240 --> 00:11:34.260
  • more questions for you, though. -HUGH: Sure!
  • 00:11:34.270 --> 00:11:36.260
  • -LEON: We'll be right back with Dr. Hugh Ross.
  • 00:11:36.270 --> 00:11:37.200
  • -HUGH: Satan is the most powerful creature God ever
  • 00:11:40.250 --> 00:11:42.220
  • created and he is the one that is tempting us to rebel against
  • 00:11:42.230 --> 00:11:46.280
  • God.
  • 00:11:46.290 --> 00:11:48.010
  • -ANNOUNCER: We believe Jesus Christ came to give every person
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  • - Church, God created church for you, to have a home,
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  • Springs online today
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  • -LEON: Hey, welcome back! My guest today
  • 00:14:36.100 --> 00:14:38.040
  • is Dr. Hugh Ross who wrote this book, 'A Matter of
  • 00:14:38.050 --> 00:14:41.180
  • Days.' And we're looking at creation and you said something
  • 00:14:41.190 --> 00:14:45.200
  • on our last segment Doctor, where you said that we are to
  • 00:14:45.210 --> 00:14:49.170
  • win people to Christ. And as they look at science and as they
  • 00:14:49.180 --> 00:14:53.040
  • look at nature, there is an ability. There should be an
  • 00:14:53.050 --> 00:14:57.080
  • ability for us to explain it to them in a way that goes, "Oh,
  • 00:14:57.090 --> 00:15:01.060
  • man! I can embrace the Bible." Now, we mentioned on another
  • 00:15:01.070 --> 00:15:06.130
  • show the issue, you said the church dealt with Darwin
  • 00:15:06.140 --> 00:15:10.070
  • probably in an incorrect way. Can you, can we just dig that up
  • 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.230
  • again? What do you mean by that? -HUGH: Well, there's this idea
  • 00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:17.010
  • that you know, treating scientists like an enemy to be
  • 00:15:17.020 --> 00:15:21.100
  • destroyed rather than a mission field to be won.
  • 00:15:21.110 --> 00:15:24.010
  • -LEON: Ooh, that's true.
  • 00:15:24.020 --> 00:15:25.060
  • -HUGH: Right. I mean, we're called to reach all people
  • 00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:27.160
  • groups with the gospel.
  • 00:15:27.170 --> 00:15:29.040
  • -LEON: So Darwin must have kind of seen that this is an old
  • 00:15:29.050 --> 00:15:32.110
  • earth and tried to have man go through that as well, coming
  • 00:15:32.120 --> 00:15:36.290
  • from species too.
  • 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:38.060
  • -HUGH: Well, he was kind of struggling with the problem of
  • 00:15:38.070 --> 00:15:39.290
  • evil. I mean, he lost a favored daughter when she was only two
  • 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:43.120
  • years of age and he basically said you know, "If there really
  • 00:15:43.130 --> 00:15:46.140
  • is a God out there that loves and cares for us, He wouldn't
  • 00:15:46.150 --> 00:15:49.060
  • have let this happen." And that's, it kind of gets into
  • 00:15:49.070 --> 00:15:52.140
  • this whole issue too, is that I've run into my young earth
  • 00:15:52.150 --> 00:15:55.170
  • creationists friends that say, "Hey, from an old earth
  • 00:15:55.180 --> 00:15:59.240
  • perspective, you've got animals dying before Adam is created,
  • 00:15:59.250 --> 00:16:05.110
  • and a good God wouldn't let that happen." So, why would a good
  • 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:09.100
  • God allow plants and animals to die? And what you notice in
  • 00:16:09.110 --> 00:16:13.290
  • Romans 5, it says, "Death through sin was visited upon all
  • 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:19.020
  • men." It doesn't say all life; it says, "All men." And what we
  • 00:16:19.030 --> 00:16:24.020
  • notice as you go through the entire Bible, if you want to
  • 00:16:24.030 --> 00:16:27.080
  • live you have to die. Death is the pathway to life. God's own
  • 00:16:27.090 --> 00:16:31.180
  • Son had to die so that we could live. And when we get baptized,
  • 00:16:31.190 --> 00:16:35.290
  • what we're doing is symbolizing the death to self and life in
  • 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:40.260
  • Christ. And so, I think it's important that we realize, death
  • 00:16:40.270 --> 00:16:44.160
  • is not bad in all contexts but I think that's what's driving this
  • 00:16:44.170 --> 00:16:48.000
  • debate is this idea that death is always bad and a good God
  • 00:16:48.010 --> 00:16:52.170
  • simply wouldn't do that. Well, one if God had a higher purpose
  • 00:16:52.180 --> 00:16:56.200
  • in these plants and animals dying? What if He's got a higher
  • 00:16:56.210 --> 00:16:59.240
  • purpose in us going through physical death? What if He has a
  • 00:16:59.250 --> 00:17:03.050
  • higher purpose in own Son going through physical death? We need
  • 00:17:03.060 --> 00:17:06.260
  • to realize that the Bible teaches a two-creation model,
  • 00:17:06.270 --> 00:17:10.230
  • not a one-creation model. That's something that struck me when I
  • 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:13.290
  • was looking at the different religions of the world. The
  • 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.060
  • Bible stands alone in giving us a two-creation model. What we
  • 00:17:16.070 --> 00:17:20.230
  • see in Genesis 1 is that God created this universe and its
  • 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:25.030
  • life as a very good creation, but it was not the ultimate
  • 00:17:25.040 --> 00:17:29.130
  • creation. The new creation is a realm where evil and suffering
  • 00:17:29.140 --> 00:17:33.290
  • will never exist for the rest of eternity. But in order for us to
  • 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:39.030
  • have that realm, it's crucial that our freewill be put to the
  • 00:17:39.040 --> 00:17:44.060
  • test. I mean, one analogy I use, I've got a Ph.D. degree. It
  • 00:17:44.070 --> 00:17:48.230
  • guarantees that never again do I have to be tested for my
  • 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.240
  • competency in astronomy, based on the idea I've already been
  • 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:55.150
  • subjected to the most difficult test; therefore, there's no
  • 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.200
  • reason to test me again. Likewise, God is subjecting
  • 00:17:58.210 --> 00:18:02.190
  • humanity to the most difficult test. He put us in the best
  • 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:06.230
  • possible creation where evil and suffering could be conquered and
  • 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:10.180
  • removed, and notice how quickly God introduces Adam and Eve to
  • 00:18:10.190 --> 00:18:15.060
  • the most difficult test. Satan is the most powerful creature
  • 00:18:15.070 --> 00:18:18.190
  • God ever created and he is the one that is tempting us to rebel
  • 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:23.170
  • against God, and if we can pass that test there is no more
  • 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:27.110
  • challenging test. And God created this universe with the
  • 00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:30.290
  • best possible life, the best possible laws of physics so as
  • 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:35.290
  • many people as possible with God's help can pass that test.
  • 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:40.150
  • And it tells us in Romans 8, "When the full number of human
  • 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:43.200
  • beings who have passed that test has been reached, then God will
  • 00:18:43.210 --> 00:18:47.140
  • take us from this creation into a brand-new creation, where evil
  • 00:18:47.150 --> 00:18:51.290
  • and suffering will never exist, where death will never exist."
  • 00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:55.290
  • Death is crucial in this creation 'cause it's a crucial
  • 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:58.250
  • way for us to get to the new creation.
  • 00:18:58.260 --> 00:19:00.270
  • -LEON: Do you find that in the Bible, like some of the people
  • 00:19:00.280 --> 00:19:04.180
  • who would take the young earth would say that, "We don't have
  • 00:19:04.190 --> 00:19:08.070
  • death or sin or decay until Adam and Eve sinned in the garden."
  • 00:19:08.080 --> 00:19:14.010
  • -HUGH: Correct, right.
  • 00:19:14.020 --> 00:19:15.010
  • -LEON: That's what they're saying.
  • 00:19:15.020 --> 00:19:17.010
  • -HUGH: That's what they're saying.
  • 00:19:17.020 --> 00:19:19.010
  • -LEON: And that's why they struggle with dinosaurs or other
  • 00:19:19.020 --> 00:19:21.120
  • animals dying before the garden, which is what you're saying.
  • 00:19:21.130 --> 00:19:24.220
  • -HUGH: Right, that's really what's stopping this issue from
  • 00:19:24.230 --> 00:19:27.160
  • getting resolved but it's important to realize Adam was
  • 00:19:27.170 --> 00:19:30.250
  • not the first sinner; Satan was the first sinner. And so, we're
  • 00:19:30.260 --> 00:19:35.020
  • not responsible for sin coming into God's creation. That was
  • 00:19:35.030 --> 00:19:39.280
  • Satan that did that and the Bible is silent on how much
  • 00:19:39.290 --> 00:19:43.250
  • before Adam Satan sinned.
  • 00:19:43.260 --> 00:19:45.290
  • -LEON: That's interesting! So you see Satan sinning as that's
  • 00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.170
  • the impact on the natural world or him coming. Is that what
  • 00:19:50.180 --> 00:19:55.060
  • you're saying? But for--
  • 00:19:55.070 --> 00:19:56.130
  • -HUGH: Not necessarily so, 'cause God knows the future, He
  • 00:19:56.140 --> 00:20:00.050
  • controls the future. It doesn't matter when Satan sins. God
  • 00:20:00.060 --> 00:20:05.230
  • designed the universe ahead of time to deal with the sin that
  • 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:09.030
  • He knew would come, gave it the best possible physics, gave it
  • 00:20:09.040 --> 00:20:12.260
  • the best possible history in terms of the time scale. So once
  • 00:20:12.270 --> 00:20:16.260
  • this sin was introduced, He could use the physics of the
  • 00:20:16.270 --> 00:20:20.010
  • universe and the life of the universe to quickly and
  • 00:20:20.020 --> 00:20:22.170
  • efficiently eliminate evil and suffering.
  • 00:20:22.180 --> 00:20:25.060
  • -LEON: So you have no problem then with, there were creatures
  • 00:20:25.070 --> 00:20:30.160
  • before Adam on the planet that died. There were cataclysmic
  • 00:20:30.170 --> 00:20:35.090
  • events that took them out or whatever. You have no problem
  • 00:20:35.100 --> 00:20:37.140
  • with that. Then God creates mankind.
  • 00:20:37.150 --> 00:20:39.170
  • -HUGH: Well, I have no problem with it 'cause I wouldn't even
  • 00:20:39.180 --> 00:20:42.220
  • be here for the show if it wasn't for all the bio-deposits
  • 00:20:42.230 --> 00:20:45.130
  • in the crust of the earth. The airplane I flew needed a lot of
  • 00:20:45.140 --> 00:20:49.000
  • fuel to get here, and that fuel was laid down long before Adam
  • 00:20:49.010 --> 00:20:54.110
  • and Eve were created by God.
  • 00:20:54.120 --> 00:20:55.190
  • -LEON: So when Adam and Eve sinned and sin came into the
  • 00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.020
  • human race, it was just the human race that was affected by
  • 00:20:59.030 --> 00:21:02.190
  • that?
  • 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:03.260
  • -HUGH: That's what Romans 5 tells us, "Death through sin was
  • 00:21:03.270 --> 00:21:06.080
  • visited upon all men." Notice it qualifies what kind of death
  • 00:21:06.090 --> 00:21:10.130
  • we're talking about. It's death through sin, and we're the only
  • 00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:13.180
  • species that can experience sin. The other animals don't sin; we
  • 00:21:13.190 --> 00:21:17.280
  • alone sin. And it says, "Death to all men," not death to all
  • 00:21:17.290 --> 00:21:21.290
  • life. So Paul is making it very clear with those qualifiers.
  • 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:26.010
  • He's talking about this being death that comes upon human
  • 00:21:26.020 --> 00:21:29.210
  • species and he repeats that in Corinthians, so the fact that we
  • 00:21:29.220 --> 00:21:33.140
  • see four qualifications from the words of the apostle Paul tells
  • 00:21:33.150 --> 00:21:37.050
  • us that, hey! There could have been death of plants and animals
  • 00:21:37.060 --> 00:21:41.280
  • before Adam sinned, and actually all that death prepared us to be
  • 00:21:41.290 --> 00:21:46.060
  • able to fulfill the great commission quickly and
  • 00:21:46.070 --> 00:21:48.060
  • efficiently.
  • 00:21:48.070 --> 00:21:49.140
  • -LEON: But the way mankind is today does have an effect on the
  • 00:21:49.150 --> 00:21:51.170
  • animals because all creation is groaning and trembling. And the
  • 00:21:51.180 --> 00:21:55.290
  • way we treat animals today, I mean they're dying in droves!
  • 00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.230
  • They say, "We're making whole species extinct because of how
  • 00:21:58.240 --> 00:22:01.170
  • we're treating the planet.
  • 00:22:01.180 --> 00:22:02.270
  • -HUGH: You see that in Genesis 3. What God says is that,
  • 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:06.260
  • "Cursed is the ground because of you." It wasn't cursed because
  • 00:22:06.270 --> 00:22:11.130
  • of the way God made it, it was cursed because of human beings.
  • 00:22:11.140 --> 00:22:14.280
  • We would now begin to work the ground and it wouldn't produce
  • 00:22:14.290 --> 00:22:18.010
  • like it did as God intended because we would abuse the
  • 00:22:18.020 --> 00:22:21.180
  • ground, and likewise we abuse the animals that are on the
  • 00:22:21.190 --> 00:22:24.290
  • ground. So yeah, creation does groan on account of sin; in
  • 00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:29.010
  • fact, you can claim that it's been groaning for the entire
  • 00:22:29.020 --> 00:22:31.280
  • creation time, because God created the universe and the
  • 00:22:31.290 --> 00:22:35.230
  • earth with sin in mind.
  • 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:37.240
  • -LEON: Expound on that.
  • 00:22:40.010 --> 00:22:41.080
  • -HUGH: Well, in this sense: God foreknows and He predetermines
  • 00:22:41.090 --> 00:22:44.090
  • as it tells us in Ephesians. So in that sense again, it doesn't
  • 00:22:44.100 --> 00:22:47.260
  • matter when sin enters the world with respect to when God created
  • 00:22:47.270 --> 00:22:52.260
  • the universe, 'cause God knowing the future and planning the
  • 00:22:52.270 --> 00:22:56.290
  • future, predetermining the future, would make sure it had
  • 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.150
  • all the right physics, the right time scale, the right life so
  • 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:05.080
  • that when sin did enter everything would be in place for
  • 00:23:05.090 --> 00:23:09.240
  • this to be quickly dealt with in the most efficient manner
  • 00:23:09.250 --> 00:23:13.270
  • possible. And also, it would be the ideal stage in which the
  • 00:23:13.280 --> 00:23:17.080
  • Creator of the universe Himself could come here as a human being
  • 00:23:17.090 --> 00:23:20.210
  • and show us the pathway to salvation. So in that sense, the
  • 00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:24.020
  • laws of physics, the earth and its life were pre-programmed by
  • 00:23:24.030 --> 00:23:27.190
  • God to make the incarnation event maximally effective.
  • 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:32.130
  • -LEON: So what you're saying in my words would be, "God is not
  • 00:23:32.140 --> 00:23:35.170
  • with this big white beard, old brain up there going, 'Whoa! No!
  • 00:23:35.180 --> 00:23:39.250
  • Look what happened to My creation!'"
  • 00:23:39.260 --> 00:23:41.250
  • -HUGH: He was not surprised.
  • 00:23:41.260 --> 00:23:43.030
  • -LEON: He's not surprised. He looked ahead and He out-thought
  • 00:23:43.040 --> 00:23:46.140
  • every one of the enemy's plans. -HUGH: He did.
  • 00:23:46.150 --> 00:23:48.250
  • -LEON: Every one of the problems that would wipe out
  • 00:23:48.260 --> 00:23:51.020
  • mankind, He thought through it so that if we would choose Him,
  • 00:23:51.030 --> 00:23:55.250
  • that there'd be a place for us to be interested in creation.
  • 00:23:55.260 --> 00:23:58.000
  • -HUGH: Well, I think it's important to realize that God
  • 00:23:58.010 --> 00:24:00.230
  • could have kept Satan out of the garden of Eden, away from planet
  • 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.230
  • earth for all of eternity. God allowed Satan to come in; in one
  • 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:06.290
  • sense, He invited him to come in 'cause He knew by exposing Adam
  • 00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:11.020
  • and Eve and all of humanity to Satan, a pathway could be
  • 00:24:11.030 --> 00:24:15.040
  • developed through what His Son would do to deliver a huge
  • 00:24:15.050 --> 00:24:19.050
  • number. As it says in Revelation, "An uncountable
  • 00:24:19.060 --> 00:24:22.080
  • number of people from every tribe, nation, language, people
  • 00:24:22.090 --> 00:24:25.260
  • will be worshipping God in the new creation."
  • 00:24:25.270 --> 00:24:28.050
  • -LEON: Wow! Our time is already up and I'm having such a good
  • 00:24:28.060 --> 00:24:30.230
  • time asking you questions, but thank you for being with us
  • 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.010
  • today.
  • 00:24:33.020 --> 00:24:33.220
  • -HUGH: You're very welcome.
  • 00:24:33.230 --> 00:24:34.180
  • -LEON: I'll be right back.
  • 00:24:34.190 --> 00:24:35.240
  • -ANNOUNCER: DEVOTED. A daily devotional created with you in
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  • mind. Easy to read and simple to understand. These two-minute
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  • -LEON: With such a high percentage of generations
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  • walking away from church and walking away from Jesus, today's
  • 00:25:18.080 --> 00:25:21.270
  • show has a profound ability to arm every young person and quite
  • 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:28.240
  • frankly, every grandpa and grandma with an ability to share
  • 00:25:28.250 --> 00:25:32.180
  • the gospel in a powerful way that actually touches this
  • 00:25:32.190 --> 00:25:35.200
  • secular generation. I would love to send you this book, 'A Matter
  • 00:25:35.210 --> 00:25:40.100
  • of Days,' by Dr. Hugh Ross. Your gift of $35 is going to make a
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  • difference because right now, Spirit Contemporary is what I'm
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  • it in a spiritually alive way and we need a language, a
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  • verbiage that communicates in a contemporary, authentic, real
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  • have a passion to see Jesus awaken in the hearts of this
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  • by Dr. Hugh Ross for your gift of $35 or more. Go to your phone
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  • -ANNOUNCER: We trust that you are being blessed, uplifted and
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  • encouraged in your Christian walk through today's program. As
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  • 00:28:10.260 --> 00:28:13.080
  • have every spirtual blessing in Christ.
  • 00:28:13.090 --> 00:28:15.280
  • - God's grace is not about what we deserve, it's about what
  • 00:28:15.290 --> 00:28:18.120
  • Christ did for us and He is all about restoration, He is
  • 00:28:18.130 --> 00:28:22.130
  • all about healing and He is all about full abundant
  • 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.010
  • life and it's not because we deserve it.
  • 00:28:25.020 --> 00:28:26.120
  • Closed Captioned By CS: The Miracle Channel Association
  • 00:28:26.130 --> 00:28:28.010