Praise the Lord | TBN

Praise the Lord

Watch Praise the Lord
February 2, 2016
1:26:21

Leon Fontaine hosts Eric Metaxas, Dr. Elmer Towns, Tim Lucas and music by Onaje Jefferson

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Praise the Lord

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  • - male announcer: From coast
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  • to coast, and around the world,
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  • it's time to praise the Lord!
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  • Praise the Lord
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  • let every nation rejoice!
  • 00:00:10.120 --> 00:00:13.120
  • Praise the Lord
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  • with one mighty voice!
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  • - announcer: "Praise the Lord"
  • 00:00:19.140 --> 00:00:20.060
  • covers the major
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  • Christian events in America
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  • and across the world,
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  • from the heart of Europe...
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  • To the tip of Africa...
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  • Praise the Lord
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  • Praise the Lord
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  • - announcer: From the centers
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  • of Asia...
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  • To Central and South America...
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  • Welcome to
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  • the number one Christian network
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  • in all the world.
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  • Joining us from New York City
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  • are co-founder
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  • and Vice President of
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  • Liberty University,
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  • Dr. Elmer Towns;
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  • pastor, speaker, and founder
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  • of Liquid Church, Tim Lucas;
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  • "New York Times"
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  • number one best-selling author,
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  • Eric Metaxas;
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  • worship leader, Onaje Jefferson.
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  • And ready to take your calls,
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  • prayer partners
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  • Praise the Lord
  • 00:01:33.060 --> 00:01:35.140
  • let every nation rejoice!
  • 00:01:35.170 --> 00:01:38.170
  • Praise the Lord
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  • with one mighty voice!
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  • Praise the Lord!
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  • Praise the Lord!
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  • Praise...
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  • pastor, conference speaker,
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  • author, and talk-show host,
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  • [audience applauding]
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  • - Leon Fontaine: Hey!
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  • Welcome, welcome!
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  • It's good to have you guys here.
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  • Woo-hoo!
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  • Welcome!
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  • All right, good.
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  • Man!
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  • I was about to say we're gonna
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  • have a great night because of
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  • the guests.
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  • But now we've got a great night
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  • because of all you guys.
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  • So good.
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  • Well, grab a seat.
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  • It's so good to have you guys
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  • here today.
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  • We have got some amazing guests.
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  • When I saw who the line-up was
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  • for the show today, I went,
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  • So I can't wait for you to get
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  • a chance to hear them.
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  • We've got great music as well.
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  • And so you can't wait to hear
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  • Onaje Jefferson as he begins to
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  • sing.
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  • He's gonna be great.
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  • He's gonna be with us in a few
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  • minutes.
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  • But our first guest, I want you
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  • to welcome Eric Metaxas as he
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  • comes.
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  • [audience applauding]
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  • Welcome, Eric.
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  • Great to have you here.
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  • These are all your fan base,
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  • I think.
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  • Wow.
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  • They're alive.
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  • It's like--
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  • - Eric Metaxas: Why did they
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  • stop?
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  • Why did they stop?
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  • - Leon: I'm Canadian
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  • so I'm always kind
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  • of just shushing it down but
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  • it--they're great.
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  • - Eric: Amazing.
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  • - Leon: Well, it's great to
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  • have you here with us.
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  • Now, we're gonna introduce a
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  • pastor before we talk here.
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  • We've got a Pastor Earlin Thomas
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  • with us right now from Shield of
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  • Faith, Jersey City.
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  • It's so good to have you.
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  • It's so great to have pastors
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  • and those who are supporting
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  • TBN.
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  • We thank you guys.
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  • It's just amazing to see what
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  • God is doing in our churches and
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  • amongst our pastors.
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  • So let me introduce you 'cause,
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  • man, this is, like, a mouthful.
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  • Eric Metaxas, author, radio
  • 00:04:18.220 --> 00:04:20.210
  • host.
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  • Now you've written a number of
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  • books and I mean it's amazing
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  • the areas that you've been
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  • involved in.
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  • You seem to enjoy variety.
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  • - Eric: Exactly.
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  • That's exactly true.
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  • And for years, I kept, you know,
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  • kicking against the goads and
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  • thinking that I've gotta focus.
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  • People say, "You gotta focus."
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  • - Leon: I've heard that too.
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  • - Eric: And then, do you know
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  • what I realized?
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  • The Lord made me this way.
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  • And it doesn't mean that it's
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  • good to be scattered but--it's
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  • good to focus sometimes, but I
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  • had to understand that this is
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  • how God made me.
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  • He made me to do all these
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  • different kinds of things.
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  • That's who I am.
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  • I've accepted it.
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  • - Leon: So if people told you,
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  • "There's one thing.
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  • What is your one thing?"
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  • Have you heard that quite a bit?
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  • - Eric: One thing I would say
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  • to being eclectic.
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  • - Leon: That's exactly right.
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  • - Eric: Yeah.
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  • Being eclectic.
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  • - Leon: Now you have this,
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  • like, and what I've--this is our
  • 00:05:08.130 --> 00:05:09.250
  • first time meeting.
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  • We had a chance to talk in the
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  • green room and I had a chance to
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  • do a little bit of research and
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  • I love the way you think.
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  • You know, one of my--I have a
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  • lot of pet peeves
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  • about the body of Christ.
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  • One of 'em was people just start
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  • thinking for themselves, please.
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  • And that ability just to--I
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  • don't mean against Christ.
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  • I just mean, as we get to know
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  • him, to think and to--God is not
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  • opposed to thinking.
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  • - Eric: Well, not only is he
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  • not opposed to thinking, he
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  • invented it, you know.
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  • He's the one that invented
  • 00:05:38.210 --> 00:05:39.210
  • our--he invented our brains and
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  • we're supposed to worship him
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  • with our minds.
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  • It says--now, think about that.
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  • That's a command.
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  • So there's a lot of Christians
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  • that are actively
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  • They think, "Oh, those
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  • intellectuals, they're ungodly,
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  • atheist, whatever."
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  • Yeah, that's true but instead of
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  • rejecting, you know,
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  • intellectualism, take it back,
  • 00:05:58.160 --> 00:06:00.060
  • you know?
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  • Take it back.
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  • And I--so that's something
  • 00:06:01.260 --> 00:06:03.070
  • that's very important to me
  • 00:06:03.070 --> 00:06:04.030
  • is the idea that our faith
  • 00:06:04.030 --> 00:06:05.250
  • Now, it's also super-rational,
  • 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.240
  • right?
  • 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:12.250
  • But it's not irrational, okay?
  • 00:06:12.250 --> 00:06:14.170
  • So in other words, it's rational
  • 00:06:14.170 --> 00:06:15.200
  • and it's beyond rational but
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  • it's not against rationality.
  • 00:06:17.250 --> 00:06:19.260
  • We can use our minds.
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  • The Lord gave us our minds to
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  • use, to worship him, to get to
  • 00:06:23.270 --> 00:06:26.270
  • know him, to understand him, and
  • 00:06:26.270 --> 00:06:28.120
  • to understand that the universe
  • 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:29.250
  • in which we live, contrary to
  • 00:06:29.250 --> 00:06:31.090
  • the current narrative, science
  • 00:06:31.220 --> 00:06:34.220
  • and faith are not incompatible.
  • 00:06:34.220 --> 00:06:36.150
  • It's a total lie.
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  • The Lord invented the universe
  • 00:06:37.290 --> 00:06:39.290
  • so there's no way that science
  • 00:06:39.290 --> 00:06:42.200
  • and faith could be incompatible.
  • 00:06:42.200 --> 00:06:43.290
  • So these are lies that are in
  • 00:06:43.290 --> 00:06:45.020
  • the culture and a big thing for
  • 00:06:45.020 --> 00:06:46.200
  • me is to get people to use their
  • 00:06:46.200 --> 00:06:48.040
  • minds and to understand that
  • 00:06:48.040 --> 00:06:49.260
  • our faith is utterly reasonable,
  • 00:06:49.260 --> 00:06:52.030
  • totally reasonable.
  • 00:06:52.030 --> 00:06:53.090
  • - Leon: That is so good.
  • 00:06:53.090 --> 00:06:54.000
  • You know, you said something
  • 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:54.210
  • just a few--a little bit ago
  • 00:06:54.210 --> 00:06:55.240
  • about we can worship him
  • 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:57.080
  • with our minds.
  • 00:06:57.080 --> 00:06:58.110
  • 'Cause to me, like, I love to
  • 00:06:58.110 --> 00:06:59.110
  • sing and--but today there is
  • 00:06:59.110 --> 00:07:01.180
  • such a beautiful explosion of
  • 00:07:01.180 --> 00:07:03.170
  • sing-songs and things but when I
  • 00:07:03.170 --> 00:07:05.120
  • get on the couch sometimes with
  • 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:07.040
  • a cup of coffee and everyone's
  • 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:08.230
  • gone and I'm just alone, and I
  • 00:07:08.230 --> 00:07:10.150
  • just get a hold of the Bible or
  • 00:07:10.150 --> 00:07:12.030
  • some great stuff that a friend's
  • 00:07:12.030 --> 00:07:13.230
  • written and I just begin to soak
  • 00:07:13.230 --> 00:07:15.240
  • into it, I feel so close to God.
  • 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:17.130
  • You like that?
  • 00:07:17.130 --> 00:07:18.190
  • - Eric: No.
  • 00:07:18.190 --> 00:07:19.250
  • Yes, of course.
  • 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:21.050
  • Of course.
  • 00:07:21.050 --> 00:07:23.190
  • No, that's totally true.
  • 00:07:23.190 --> 00:07:26.050
  • And in fact I don't know
  • 00:07:26.050 --> 00:07:28.070
  • if we're gonna talk about my
  • 00:07:28.070 --> 00:07:29.010
  • "Miracles" book but really the
  • 00:07:29.010 --> 00:07:31.020
  • one that I was thinking we could
  • 00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:32.260
  • talk about is a book called
  • 00:07:32.260 --> 00:07:35.050
  • "Miracles" and the first part of
  • 00:07:35.050 --> 00:07:36.240
  • it I talk about science and
  • 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.180
  • faith, and so many people have
  • 00:07:39.180 --> 00:07:41.180
  • said to me that when they
  • 00:07:41.180 --> 00:07:43.010
  • realize that the more they look
  • 00:07:43.010 --> 00:07:45.170
  • from a scientific view at God's
  • 00:07:45.170 --> 00:07:47.140
  • creation, the more astounded
  • 00:07:47.140 --> 00:07:50.110
  • they are at our God, right?
  • 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:52.200
  • And some of them said that they
  • 00:07:52.200 --> 00:07:54.130
  • were in awe.
  • 00:07:54.130 --> 00:07:55.170
  • When they're reading this stuff,
  • 00:07:55.170 --> 00:07:56.240
  • they're in awe because they
  • 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:57.210
  • realize that even we who say we
  • 00:07:57.210 --> 00:08:00.080
  • love God and we worship God and
  • 00:08:00.080 --> 00:08:01.170
  • we--in other words, we don't
  • 00:08:01.170 --> 00:08:02.290
  • scratch the surface of how great
  • 00:08:02.290 --> 00:08:05.190
  • he is.
  • 00:08:05.190 --> 00:08:06.130
  • Like, when you realize how great
  • 00:08:06.130 --> 00:08:08.190
  • he is, you get a little glimpse,
  • 00:08:08.190 --> 00:08:09.200
  • it's frightening.
  • 00:08:09.200 --> 00:08:10.250
  • - Leon: That's true.
  • 00:08:10.250 --> 00:08:11.130
  • - Eric: It's frightening.
  • 00:08:11.130 --> 00:08:12.060
  • You realize, like, he's not 20
  • 00:08:12.060 --> 00:08:12.270
  • feet tall.
  • 00:08:12.270 --> 00:08:14.020
  • He invented atomic structure.
  • 00:08:14.020 --> 00:08:16.220
  • He invent--like, how can we--we
  • 00:08:16.220 --> 00:08:19.020
  • can't process that, you know?
  • 00:08:19.020 --> 00:08:20.240
  • And so I think that it's good
  • 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:23.050
  • for us to be blown away, using
  • 00:08:23.050 --> 00:08:25.260
  • science to be blown away by the
  • 00:08:25.260 --> 00:08:27.090
  • God behind it all and to realize
  • 00:08:27.090 --> 00:08:29.020
  • he's infinitely more amazing
  • 00:08:29.020 --> 00:08:30.150
  • than we could begin to
  • 00:08:30.150 --> 00:08:31.190
  • understand.
  • 00:08:31.190 --> 00:08:32.120
  • I mean, we just get this much.
  • 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:33.190
  • - Leon: It's true.
  • 00:08:33.190 --> 00:08:34.080
  • You know, even interviewing, I
  • 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:35.130
  • get an opportunity to interview
  • 00:08:35.130 --> 00:08:37.070
  • some of the most wonderful
  • 00:08:37.070 --> 00:08:39.130
  • people on the planet and many of
  • 00:08:39.130 --> 00:08:40.140
  • them weren't Christians.
  • 00:08:40.140 --> 00:08:42.000
  • You know, one was a journalist,
  • 00:08:42.000 --> 00:08:43.090
  • one was an astrophysicist.
  • 00:08:43.090 --> 00:08:44.260
  • One was a policeman doing cold
  • 00:08:44.260 --> 00:08:47.110
  • case files and none of 'em loved
  • 00:08:47.110 --> 00:08:49.020
  • God.
  • 00:08:49.020 --> 00:08:49.270
  • They actually had an aversion
  • 00:08:49.270 --> 00:08:51.180
  • and just--and they went after it
  • 00:08:51.180 --> 00:08:53.070
  • to disprove the Bible.
  • 00:08:53.070 --> 00:08:54.220
  • So each in their own area.
  • 00:08:54.220 --> 00:08:56.220
  • And when I talk with each of
  • 00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:58.140
  • them, I just stand in awe of how
  • 00:08:58.140 --> 00:09:01.000
  • they couldn't get anywhere but
  • 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:03.100
  • fall in love with this God and
  • 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:04.260
  • believe in him, give their lives
  • 00:09:04.260 --> 00:09:06.190
  • to him.
  • 00:09:06.190 --> 00:09:07.070
  • Some of the most brilliant minds
  • 00:09:07.070 --> 00:09:08.050
  • on the planet.
  • 00:09:08.050 --> 00:09:08.240
  • - Eric: I say--and I say to
  • 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:09.140
  • people, like, "I dare you to--"
  • 00:09:09.140 --> 00:09:11.060
  • like, you know, I'll just lay it
  • 00:09:11.060 --> 00:09:12.100
  • out there.
  • 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:13.010
  • If you think that God
  • 00:09:13.130 --> 00:09:16.130
  • is--believing God is irrational,
  • 00:09:16.130 --> 00:09:18.020
  • I dare you to really look into
  • 00:09:18.020 --> 00:09:20.000
  • it.
  • 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:21.080
  • Like, I dare--'cause easy to say
  • 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:22.030
  • that.
  • 00:09:22.030 --> 00:09:22.290
  • But go look into it, read some
  • 00:09:22.290 --> 00:09:24.040
  • discover.
  • 00:09:26.060 --> 00:09:27.070
  • I mean, the reason I wrote the
  • 00:09:27.070 --> 00:09:27.290
  • "Miracles" book was, in a sense,
  • 00:09:27.290 --> 00:09:29.080
  • to share it with anybody to say,
  • 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:31.100
  • "Look, I'm not telling you what
  • 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:32.150
  • to believe.
  • 00:09:32.150 --> 00:09:33.030
  • I'm not here to preach or
  • 00:09:33.030 --> 00:09:33.240
  • whatever like that because it's
  • 00:09:33.240 --> 00:09:34.160
  • not gonna work.
  • 00:09:34.160 --> 00:09:35.070
  • With some people, it won't
  • 00:09:35.070 --> 00:09:35.290
  • work."
  • 00:09:35.290 --> 00:09:36.180
  • - Leon: Why was miracles so
  • 00:09:36.180 --> 00:09:37.080
  • - Eric: Well, first of all,
  • 00:09:39.100 --> 00:09:40.000
  • I've experienced miracles,
  • 00:09:40.000 --> 00:09:40.220
  • right?
  • 00:09:40.220 --> 00:09:41.110
  • I mean, I'm one of those crazy
  • 00:09:41.110 --> 00:09:42.030
  • Christians.
  • 00:09:42.030 --> 00:09:42.200
  • I've experienced crazy miracles,
  • 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:44.020
  • with unicorns, flying saucers.
  • 00:09:44.020 --> 00:09:45.140
  • Just kidding.
  • 00:09:45.140 --> 00:09:47.070
  • But I've experienced bona fide
  • 00:09:47.070 --> 00:09:49.080
  • miracles of God and I know many
  • 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:50.260
  • people who've experienced
  • 00:09:50.260 --> 00:09:52.010
  • miracles, right?
  • 00:09:52.010 --> 00:09:53.010
  • And--but I didn't wanna write a
  • 00:09:53.010 --> 00:09:54.200
  • book on it.
  • 00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:55.110
  • I've written biographies and
  • 00:09:55.110 --> 00:09:56.060
  • things but I was meeting with
  • 00:09:56.060 --> 00:09:57.100
  • this editor and I was sharing a
  • 00:09:57.100 --> 00:09:58.280
  • miracle story from my life with
  • 00:09:58.280 --> 00:10:00.170
  • him, you know?
  • 00:10:00.170 --> 00:10:01.130
  • I'm a writer but we're just
  • 00:10:01.130 --> 00:10:02.190
  • having lunch and I share a
  • 00:10:02.190 --> 00:10:03.140
  • miracle story and he said, "You
  • 00:10:03.140 --> 00:10:05.100
  • gotta write a book on miracles."
  • 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:06.160
  • And I said, "Oh, that's a great
  • 00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:07.150
  • idea but I really don't wanna
  • 00:10:07.150 --> 00:10:08.150
  • write a book on--I don't feel
  • 00:10:08.150 --> 00:10:09.180
  • called."
  • 00:10:09.180 --> 00:10:10.250
  • That's the Christian way of
  • 00:10:10.250 --> 00:10:11.190
  • putting it.
  • 00:10:11.190 --> 00:10:12.060
  • I don't feel called to write a
  • 00:10:12.060 --> 00:10:13.030
  • book on miracles, you know what
  • 00:10:13.030 --> 00:10:14.040
  • I mean?
  • 00:10:14.040 --> 00:10:14.290
  • It's like I don't wanna do
  • 00:10:14.290 --> 00:10:15.230
  • something, I don't feel called
  • 00:10:15.230 --> 00:10:16.140
  • to take out the garbage.
  • 00:10:16.140 --> 00:10:17.170
  • I don't feel called.
  • 00:10:17.170 --> 00:10:19.010
  • It's not my calling.
  • 00:10:19.010 --> 00:10:20.040
  • I see the need but I'm not the
  • 00:10:20.040 --> 00:10:20.290
  • one God is calling to do that
  • 00:10:20.290 --> 00:10:22.040
  • right now.
  • 00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:23.010
  • So basically, I--he kept
  • 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:26.080
  • hounding me for literally for a
  • 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:27.140
  • year and saying, "You need to
  • 00:10:27.140 --> 00:10:28.180
  • write a book on miracles."
  • 00:10:28.180 --> 00:10:29.150
  • And my wife said to me, "You
  • 00:10:29.150 --> 00:10:30.120
  • know what?
  • 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:31.000
  • There's a lot of books on
  • 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:32.150
  • miracles that are written from
  • 00:10:32.150 --> 00:10:33.120
  • such a Christian perspective,
  • 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:34.070
  • you can't really share them with
  • 00:10:34.070 --> 00:10:35.040
  • a non-believer."
  • 00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:36.080
  • And then the rest of the world,
  • 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:37.230
  • the secular world, sneers at the
  • 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:39.100
  • idea of miracles so much but I
  • 00:10:39.100 --> 00:10:40.180
  • could write a book about
  • 00:10:40.180 --> 00:10:42.290
  • miracles that's critical, you
  • 00:10:42.290 --> 00:10:44.090
  • know, that says that let's use
  • 00:10:44.090 --> 00:10:46.000
  • our minds to see is this a
  • 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:47.110
  • miracle or is it just a
  • 00:10:47.110 --> 00:10:48.190
  • coincidence, right?
  • 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:50.020
  • 'Cause everybody, you
  • 00:10:50.020 --> 00:10:50.280
  • know--there's some Christians
  • 00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:52.000
  • get this idea, it's, like,
  • 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:52.260
  • everything, it's the Lord, it's
  • 00:10:52.260 --> 00:10:53.200
  • the Lord.
  • 00:10:53.200 --> 00:10:54.100
  • Not everything's the Lord, you
  • 00:10:54.100 --> 00:10:55.040
  • know?
  • 00:10:55.040 --> 00:10:55.220
  • You know, if I roll seven, yeah,
  • 00:10:55.220 --> 00:10:57.030
  • it's the Lord and yet, you know,
  • 00:10:57.030 --> 00:10:59.030
  • like, it's kind of--and so to
  • 00:10:59.030 --> 00:11:01.130
  • really say something is the
  • 00:11:01.130 --> 00:11:02.180
  • Lord, we know everything's the
  • 00:11:02.180 --> 00:11:03.250
  • Lord on the one hand but I'm
  • 00:11:03.250 --> 00:11:05.040
  • saying, to really talk about a
  • 00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:06.040
  • miracle--the Red Sea, if anybody
  • 00:11:06.040 --> 00:11:08.170
  • said, "Oh, yeah, that was a
  • 00:11:08.170 --> 00:11:09.270
  • coincidence," you realize
  • 00:11:09.270 --> 00:11:11.050
  • they're crazy.
  • 00:11:11.050 --> 00:11:12.090
  • Everybody with a brain
  • 00:11:12.090 --> 00:11:13.090
  • understands that's a miracle of
  • 00:11:13.090 --> 00:11:14.090
  • God, okay?
  • 00:11:14.090 --> 00:11:15.130
  • When Lazarus was raised from the
  • 00:11:15.130 --> 00:11:16.190
  • tomb, there's nobody around
  • 00:11:16.190 --> 00:11:18.110
  • to--who could say, like, it
  • 00:11:18.110 --> 00:11:21.050
  • wasn't a miracle.
  • 00:11:21.050 --> 00:11:21.290
  • It's a miracle, right?
  • 00:11:21.290 --> 00:11:23.070
  • And I wanted to write about
  • 00:11:23.070 --> 00:11:24.040
  • miracles critically so that you
  • 00:11:24.040 --> 00:11:25.210
  • could--I could share the book
  • 00:11:25.210 --> 00:11:26.180
  • with any friend or whatever.
  • 00:11:26.180 --> 00:11:27.100
  • Just say, "Just check it out and
  • 00:11:27.100 --> 00:11:28.200
  • see what you think," right?
  • 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:31.030
  • And the main point I wanted to
  • 00:11:31.030 --> 00:11:33.070
  • make is that when a miracle
  • 00:11:33.070 --> 00:11:34.070
  • happens, the whole point of the
  • 00:11:34.070 --> 00:11:35.200
  • miracle is God is getting you to
  • 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:36.280
  • look at him.
  • 00:11:36.280 --> 00:11:38.030
  • Not about the miracle, right?
  • 00:11:38.030 --> 00:11:40.090
  • And so, 'cause in the New
  • 00:11:40.090 --> 00:11:41.130
  • Testament the word is signs.
  • 00:11:41.130 --> 00:11:42.130
  • Since I'm Greek, I can say,
  • 00:11:42.130 --> 00:11:43.280
  • sémeios.
  • 00:11:43.280 --> 00:11:44.220
  • That's the word, right?
  • 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:45.180
  • Sign.
  • 00:11:45.180 --> 00:11:46.150
  • It's a sign pointing to God.
  • 00:11:46.150 --> 00:11:48.200
  • So if everybody just looked at
  • 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:49.270
  • the Red Sea and went, like,
  • 00:11:49.270 --> 00:11:50.230
  • "Wow, that's amazing."
  • 00:11:50.230 --> 00:11:51.120
  • But the whole point is the God
  • 00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:53.060
  • behind it.
  • 00:11:53.060 --> 00:11:53.240
  • It's like the Lord's way of
  • 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:54.140
  • saying, "Hey, look at me.
  • 00:11:54.140 --> 00:11:55.150
  • I'm really here.
  • 00:11:55.150 --> 00:11:56.150
  • Look, look.
  • 00:11:56.150 --> 00:11:57.060
  • I want you to look at me," you
  • 00:11:57.060 --> 00:11:57.270
  • know.
  • 00:11:57.270 --> 00:11:58.070
  • - Leon: Some Christians
  • 00:11:58.070 --> 00:11:58.260
  • actually pooh-pooh miracles too.
  • 00:11:58.260 --> 00:11:59.290
  • - Eric: Many miracles--
  • 00:11:59.290 --> 00:12:00.250
  • - Leon: As though it's
  • 00:12:00.250 --> 00:12:01.160
  • finished.
  • 00:12:01.160 --> 00:12:02.080
  • - Eric: And those, they're not
  • 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:03.000
  • saved.
  • 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:03.170
  • You know what I'm saying?
  • 00:12:03.170 --> 00:12:04.070
  • - Leon: Well, even Jesus--
  • 00:12:04.070 --> 00:12:05.130
  • - Eric: No, I joke around.
  • 00:12:05.130 --> 00:12:07.120
  • I like to joke around.
  • 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:08.150
  • I like to joke around but the
  • 00:12:08.150 --> 00:12:09.280
  • fact of the matter is when I
  • 00:12:09.280 --> 00:12:10.200
  • first became a believer and when
  • 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:11.210
  • I finally met some Christians
  • 00:12:11.210 --> 00:12:12.230
  • who kinda didn't believe in this
  • 00:12:12.230 --> 00:12:13.210
  • stuff, I thought, "How could you
  • 00:12:13.210 --> 00:12:14.230
  • not believe in that stuff?"
  • 00:12:14.230 --> 00:12:16.040
  • Because, you know, anyway.
  • 00:12:16.040 --> 00:12:17.290
  • But the point is that I wanna
  • 00:12:17.290 --> 00:12:19.120
  • write about that but I also
  • 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:20.130
  • wanted to write about--so I've
  • 00:12:20.130 --> 00:12:22.030
  • got a ton of stories of miracles
  • 00:12:22.030 --> 00:12:23.170
  • and I always tell my friends,
  • 00:12:23.170 --> 00:12:24.160
  • "If you get bored by the science
  • 00:12:24.160 --> 00:12:25.130
  • stuff, just go to all
  • 00:12:25.130 --> 00:12:26.080
  • the stories."
  • 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:26.270
  • These are stories that either
  • 00:12:26.270 --> 00:12:27.240
  • happened to me or happened to
  • 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:28.260
  • friends of mine so I can
  • 00:12:28.260 --> 00:12:30.150
  • say it has credibility.
  • 00:12:30.150 --> 00:12:32.000
  • I know the person.
  • 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:32.230
  • They're not crazy.
  • 00:12:32.230 --> 00:12:34.060
  • They're not just making stuff
  • 00:12:34.060 --> 00:12:34.270
  • up.
  • 00:12:34.270 --> 00:12:35.130
  • And I tell as many details, as
  • 00:12:35.130 --> 00:12:36.160
  • many journalistic details, as
  • 00:12:36.160 --> 00:12:37.130
  • possible so you can get the
  • 00:12:37.130 --> 00:12:38.290
  • context and say, "Wow,
  • 00:12:38.290 --> 00:12:40.050
  • that's--that is an amazing
  • 00:12:40.050 --> 00:12:41.270
  • story," you know, you
  • 00:12:41.270 --> 00:12:42.230
  • don't--'cause sometimes somebody
  • 00:12:42.230 --> 00:12:43.220
  • tells a story and they don't do
  • 00:12:43.220 --> 00:12:44.140
  • a good job, they kind of leave
  • 00:12:44.140 --> 00:12:45.070
  • stuff out and you go, "I dunno,
  • 00:12:45.070 --> 00:12:45.290
  • what about that?
  • 00:12:45.290 --> 00:12:46.210
  • What about--did you ever think
  • 00:12:46.210 --> 00:12:47.290
  • about this?"
  • 00:12:47.290 --> 00:12:48.190
  • I try to cover all that stuff so
  • 00:12:48.190 --> 00:12:49.180
  • that's that part of the book.
  • 00:12:49.180 --> 00:12:50.230
  • But the first part of the book
  • 00:12:50.230 --> 00:12:51.200
  • is faith and science.
  • 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:53.210
  • And I'll tell you this.
  • 00:12:53.210 --> 00:12:54.280
  • I had one--I talk about how
  • 00:12:55.220 --> 00:12:58.220
  • science--the more science
  • 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:00.070
  • discovers about the universe,
  • 00:13:00.070 --> 00:13:01.230
  • right?
  • 00:13:01.230 --> 00:13:02.190
  • This is just the opposite of
  • 00:13:02.190 --> 00:13:03.090
  • what everybody thinks.
  • 00:13:03.090 --> 00:13:04.010
  • The more science discovers about
  • 00:13:04.010 --> 00:13:05.140
  • the universe, the more it leads
  • 00:13:05.140 --> 00:13:07.290
  • scientists to believe there
  • 00:13:07.290 --> 00:13:10.150
  • has to be an intelligent being
  • 00:13:10.150 --> 00:13:12.000
  • behind the creation, okay?
  • 00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:13.230
  • So that's the more science
  • 00:13:13.230 --> 00:13:15.180
  • discovers, it's--we get this
  • 00:13:15.180 --> 00:13:16.290
  • idea that the more science
  • 00:13:16.290 --> 00:13:18.200
  • discovers, the more it disproves
  • 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:19.180
  • God.
  • 00:13:19.180 --> 00:13:20.220
  • Just the opposite is happening
  • 00:13:20.220 --> 00:13:23.070
  • in the field of science, okay?
  • 00:13:23.070 --> 00:13:24.200
  • - Leon: It's true.
  • 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:25.060
  • - Eric: So I wrote about it and
  • 00:13:25.060 --> 00:13:26.050
  • then I kind of boiled down the
  • 00:13:26.050 --> 00:13:27.050
  • first part of it and sent it to
  • 00:13:27.050 --> 00:13:29.170
  • "The Wall Street Journal" as,
  • 00:13:29.170 --> 00:13:30.200
  • like, an OpEd, right?
  • 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:31.250
  • Like, you know, a short thing.
  • 00:13:31.250 --> 00:13:32.200
  • They published it and the title
  • 00:13:32.200 --> 00:13:34.080
  • was "Science Increasingly
  • 00:13:34.080 --> 00:13:35.180
  • Makes the Case for God."
  • 00:13:35.180 --> 00:13:37.130
  • And it became literally the most
  • 00:13:37.130 --> 00:13:40.060
  • popular shared article in
  • 00:13:40.250 --> 00:13:43.250
  • the history of "The Wall Street
  • 00:13:43.290 --> 00:13:46.290
  • Journal," right?
  • 00:13:46.290 --> 00:13:48.230
  • - Leon: Yes!
  • 00:13:48.230 --> 00:13:49.180
  • C'mon.
  • 00:13:49.180 --> 00:13:50.200
  • Whoo!
  • 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:52.210
  • - Eric: And I say--
  • 00:13:52.210 --> 00:13:54.050
  • - Leon: That's awesome.
  • 00:13:54.050 --> 00:13:56.080
  • - Eric: But I say that--just to
  • 00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:57.230
  • be clear, I say that, it's not
  • 00:13:57.230 --> 00:13:59.040
  • because I wrote it but it's
  • 00:13:59.040 --> 00:13:59.270
  • because there's a hunger in
  • 00:13:59.270 --> 00:14:00.260
  • America to know about God.
  • 00:14:00.260 --> 00:14:03.000
  • And when you open up "The Wall
  • 00:14:03.000 --> 00:14:04.010
  • Street Journal" and you see an
  • 00:14:04.010 --> 00:14:04.260
  • article about science and God,
  • 00:14:04.260 --> 00:14:06.010
  • people are dying to know what we
  • 00:14:06.010 --> 00:14:08.210
  • can know.
  • 00:14:08.210 --> 00:14:10.190
  • And the culture is so secular,
  • 00:14:10.190 --> 00:14:12.050
  • they never get any food of that
  • 00:14:12.050 --> 00:14:13.200
  • kind.
  • 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:14.290
  • So when they get a little bit of
  • 00:14:14.290 --> 00:14:15.270
  • it, they went crazy.
  • 00:14:15.270 --> 00:14:17.000
  • And it was 480.000 Facebook
  • 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:19.010
  • "likes," which is, like, unheard
  • 00:14:19.010 --> 00:14:21.010
  • of.
  • 00:14:21.010 --> 00:14:22.130
  • But it proves to me that there's
  • 00:14:22.130 --> 00:14:23.210
  • a hunger and so I say to people
  • 00:14:23.210 --> 00:14:25.010
  • that, "So tell your friends,
  • 00:14:25.010 --> 00:14:26.180
  • like, what I believe is totally
  • 00:14:26.180 --> 00:14:28.120
  • rational.
  • 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:29.110
  • In fact, it's so rational that
  • 00:14:29.110 --> 00:14:30.080
  • actually you should be
  • 00:14:30.080 --> 00:14:32.110
  • embarrassed not to believe it."
  • 00:14:32.110 --> 00:14:33.250
  • Do you know what I'm saying?
  • 00:14:33.250 --> 00:14:35.060
  • - Leon: It's true.
  • 00:14:35.060 --> 00:14:36.000
  • - Eric: 'Cause when you start
  • 00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:36.240
  • looking into it, it's--is when
  • 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:37.230
  • you say to somebody, you know,
  • 00:14:37.230 --> 00:14:39.090
  • Science says that the odds of
  • 00:14:41.280 --> 00:14:43.010
  • this all just happening are so
  • 00:14:43.010 --> 00:14:44.020
  • astronomical that it would be
  • 00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:46.160
  • like if I flipped a coin, right,
  • 00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:48.140
  • now, right?"
  • 00:14:49.150 --> 00:14:50.050
  • And you'd say, "Well, that's
  • 00:14:50.050 --> 00:14:51.010
  • possible.
  • 00:14:51.010 --> 00:14:51.190
  • It's possible that could happen,
  • 00:14:51.190 --> 00:14:52.240
  • that it lands right on its
  • 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:53.160
  • edge."
  • 00:14:53.160 --> 00:14:54.080
  • Okay, let's say I flip it again
  • 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:55.000
  • and it lands on its edge again.
  • 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:57.120
  • Now you know something's up,
  • 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:58.240
  • right?
  • 00:14:58.240 --> 00:14:59.110
  • What if I did it again and again
  • 00:14:59.110 --> 00:15:00.240
  • and again and a thousand times,
  • 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.060
  • every time it landed on its
  • 00:15:02.060 --> 00:15:03.020
  • edge?
  • 00:15:03.020 --> 00:15:04.010
  • You'd say, "This is not
  • 00:15:04.010 --> 00:15:05.290
  • mathematically possible.
  • 00:15:05.290 --> 00:15:07.270
  • Something is going on here."
  • 00:15:07.270 --> 00:15:09.120
  • Well, that's what science says
  • 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:10.120
  • about creation.
  • 00:15:10.120 --> 00:15:11.260
  • They say that there's so many
  • 00:15:11.260 --> 00:15:13.020
  • things that need to be just
  • 00:15:13.020 --> 00:15:14.060
  • perfect that the more they
  • 00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:16.060
  • study, the more they realize
  • 00:15:16.060 --> 00:15:18.020
  • there is no way scientifically
  • 00:15:18.250 --> 00:15:21.250
  • or mathematically that this is
  • 00:15:21.250 --> 00:15:23.100
  • possible.
  • 00:15:23.100 --> 00:15:24.140
  • And so a lot of scientists are,
  • 00:15:24.140 --> 00:15:26.050
  • you know, they get upset about
  • 00:15:26.050 --> 00:15:27.010
  • it and they come up with really
  • 00:15:27.010 --> 00:15:27.280
  • weird theories to try to
  • 00:15:27.280 --> 00:15:28.290
  • disprove it.
  • 00:15:28.290 --> 00:15:30.020
  • - Leon: The original hypothesis
  • 00:15:30.020 --> 00:15:30.240
  • actually makes it a religion in
  • 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.190
  • its own sometimes, science.
  • 00:15:32.190 --> 00:15:34.010
  • - Eric: Oh, yeah, well, that's
  • 00:15:34.010 --> 00:15:34.270
  • the point.
  • 00:15:34.270 --> 00:15:35.200
  • It's, like, some--many, many
  • 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:36.290
  • scientists are Christians.
  • 00:15:36.290 --> 00:15:38.070
  • Maybe they don't talk about it
  • 00:15:38.070 --> 00:15:39.020
  • too much because, you know, it's
  • 00:15:39.020 --> 00:15:40.070
  • such a weird environment but
  • 00:15:40.070 --> 00:15:41.100
  • many of them are Christians
  • 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:42.200
  • 'cause the more they know, the
  • 00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:43.280
  • more they realize this is
  • 00:15:43.280 --> 00:15:45.000
  • pointing to God.
  • 00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.110
  • Now, 100 years ago, that wasn't
  • 00:15:46.110 --> 00:15:47.120
  • the case.
  • 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:48.080
  • Today, it's very much the case.
  • 00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:49.230
  • And so I say to Christians, you
  • 00:15:49.230 --> 00:15:51.020
  • know, if you read this book or
  • 00:15:51.020 --> 00:15:52.270
  • if you study this kind of stuff,
  • 00:15:52.270 --> 00:15:54.230
  • you will become very much bolder
  • 00:15:54.230 --> 00:15:57.070
  • in your faith.
  • 00:15:57.070 --> 00:15:59.010
  • - Leon: Very true.
  • 00:15:59.010 --> 00:15:59.210
  • - Eric: And we need to be bold
  • 00:15:59.210 --> 00:16:00.160
  • because, guess what?
  • 00:16:00.160 --> 00:16:01.070
  • What we believe,
  • 00:16:01.070 --> 00:16:02.000
  • it's actually true.
  • 00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:03.160
  • - Leon: So it's just called
  • 00:16:03.160 --> 00:16:04.120
  • "Miracles"?
  • 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:05.130
  • - Eric: "Miracles," yeah.
  • 00:16:05.130 --> 00:16:06.040
  • - Leon: And that's available.
  • 00:16:06.040 --> 00:16:06.280
  • I wanna encourage everyone to
  • 00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:07.250
  • grab that because that is, to
  • 00:16:07.250 --> 00:16:08.270
  • me, it's an issue the church has
  • 00:16:08.270 --> 00:16:10.050
  • almost--like, for every mile of
  • 00:16:10.050 --> 00:16:12.090
  • truth there's 2 miles of ditch.
  • 00:16:12.090 --> 00:16:14.000
  • And Christians are famous for
  • 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.140
  • being in the ditch on one side
  • 00:16:15.140 --> 00:16:16.140
  • or the ditch on the other.
  • 00:16:16.140 --> 00:16:18.030
  • So we're backing away from
  • 00:16:18.030 --> 00:16:19.000
  • miracles or we Hollywood them so
  • 00:16:19.000 --> 00:16:21.180
  • much that everyone backs away,
  • 00:16:21.180 --> 00:16:23.220
  • going, "I don't want a part of
  • 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:24.160
  • that."
  • 00:16:24.160 --> 00:16:25.030
  • - Eric: That's right.
  • 00:16:25.030 --> 00:16:25.200
  • I wanna bring my rational mind
  • 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.240
  • to the subject of miracles so I
  • 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:28.080
  • can share the book with anybody,
  • 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:29.210
  • not just with believers but with
  • 00:16:29.210 --> 00:16:30.230
  • anybody and say, "Hey, what do
  • 00:16:30.230 --> 00:16:31.230
  • you think?
  • 00:16:31.230 --> 00:16:32.250
  • What do you--you know, read this
  • 00:16:32.250 --> 00:16:33.260
  • and tell me, what do you think?"
  • 00:16:33.260 --> 00:16:34.270
  • And I think--actually,
  • 00:16:34.270 --> 00:16:35.260
  • this is true.
  • 00:16:35.260 --> 00:16:36.210
  • My wife gave the book to a
  • 00:16:36.210 --> 00:16:37.220
  • friend who gave it to an atheist
  • 00:16:37.220 --> 00:16:39.190
  • cousin who laughed at it and
  • 00:16:39.190 --> 00:16:40.230
  • then she said, "No, no, no,
  • 00:16:40.230 --> 00:16:41.230
  • read it.
  • 00:16:41.230 --> 00:16:42.110
  • Read it."
  • 00:16:42.110 --> 00:16:43.010
  • He read the book.
  • 00:16:43.010 --> 00:16:44.180
  • There was a chapter about the
  • 00:16:44.180 --> 00:16:45.160
  • Resurrection miracle in there,
  • 00:16:45.160 --> 00:16:46.260
  • right?
  • 00:16:46.260 --> 00:16:47.170
  • This atheist said after reading
  • 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:50.240
  • this--he read it twice.
  • 00:16:50.240 --> 00:16:52.200
  • He said, "I think the
  • 00:16:52.200 --> 00:16:53.270
  • Resurrection actually happened."
  • 00:16:53.270 --> 00:16:55.280
  • - Leon: Wow, that's huge.
  • 00:16:55.280 --> 00:16:57.060
  • - Eric: That's insane.
  • 00:16:57.060 --> 00:16:58.000
  • That is nuts.
  • 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:59.230
  • And then even weirder--this is
  • 00:16:59.230 --> 00:17:01.060
  • gonna get really weird.
  • 00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:02.030
  • I have had at least three people
  • 00:17:02.030 --> 00:17:04.130
  • tell me that in reading the book
  • 00:17:04.130 --> 00:17:06.020
  • they experienced a miracle.
  • 00:17:06.020 --> 00:17:08.130
  • They e-mailed me the details and
  • 00:17:08.130 --> 00:17:09.140
  • this is mind-blowing stuff,
  • 00:17:09.140 --> 00:17:10.270
  • right?
  • 00:17:10.270 --> 00:17:11.210
  • Now, if you believe in miracles,
  • 00:17:11.210 --> 00:17:12.220
  • when I was writing about 'em, I
  • 00:17:12.220 --> 00:17:13.150
  • said, "I know that's gonna
  • 00:17:13.150 --> 00:17:14.090
  • happen.
  • 00:17:14.090 --> 00:17:14.270
  • It's gonna--people are--their
  • 00:17:14.270 --> 00:17:15.250
  • faith is gonna get activated and
  • 00:17:15.250 --> 00:17:17.100
  • God's gonna speak to them."
  • 00:17:17.100 --> 00:17:18.100
  • But, you know, that's--we need
  • 00:17:18.100 --> 00:17:20.140
  • that.
  • 00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:21.070
  • It's an encourager to us, right?
  • 00:17:21.070 --> 00:17:22.260
  • - Leon: You know, one of the
  • 00:17:22.260 --> 00:17:23.210
  • things that stands out to me so
  • 00:17:23.210 --> 00:17:24.180
  • much in the Bible was when
  • 00:17:24.180 --> 00:17:25.170
  • John the Baptist was about to be
  • 00:17:25.170 --> 00:17:26.220
  • beheaded.
  • 00:17:26.220 --> 00:17:28.010
  • And he sends word through a
  • 00:17:28.010 --> 00:17:29.100
  • disciple to Jesus.
  • 00:17:29.100 --> 00:17:31.020
  • And he knew he was the one; he
  • 00:17:31.020 --> 00:17:32.230
  • prophesied it.
  • 00:17:32.230 --> 00:17:33.290
  • Then he said, like, "Are you the
  • 00:17:33.290 --> 00:17:35.120
  • one?"
  • 00:17:35.120 --> 00:17:36.120
  • He must have had a low moment.
  • 00:17:36.120 --> 00:17:37.240
  • And then Jesus sent him back
  • 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:39.170
  • saying, "Tell him the miracles
  • 00:17:39.170 --> 00:17:41.150
  • that you see me do."
  • 00:17:41.150 --> 00:17:43.010
  • That's--I've never forgotten
  • 00:17:43.010 --> 00:17:44.180
  • that story 'cause you're dead on
  • 00:17:44.180 --> 00:17:45.260
  • the money.
  • 00:17:45.260 --> 00:17:46.160
  • We need to see miracles coming
  • 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:47.210
  • back.
  • 00:17:47.210 --> 00:17:48.140
  • Stop exaggerating 'em, stop
  • 00:17:48.140 --> 00:17:49.180
  • Hollywooding 'em.
  • 00:17:49.180 --> 00:17:50.180
  • - Eric: Yeah, well, that's the
  • 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:51.100
  • point is, like, don't
  • 00:17:51.100 --> 00:17:52.000
  • exaggerate.
  • 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:52.180
  • When Christians exaggerate, it
  • 00:17:52.180 --> 00:17:53.100
  • brings us all down because
  • 00:17:53.100 --> 00:17:54.240
  • people just go, "Those crazy
  • 00:17:54.240 --> 00:17:55.250
  • Christians.
  • 00:17:55.250 --> 00:17:56.170
  • They're just, like, everything's
  • 00:17:56.170 --> 00:17:57.190
  • a miracle and everything's
  • 00:17:57.190 --> 00:17:58.140
  • that."
  • 00:17:58.140 --> 00:17:59.040
  • But I mean, when you talk about,
  • 00:17:59.040 --> 00:17:59.270
  • for example, Jesus raising
  • 00:17:59.270 --> 00:18:01.190
  • Lazarus from the dead, right?
  • 00:18:01.190 --> 00:18:03.190
  • Now, we all know Jesus could
  • 00:18:03.190 --> 00:18:05.220
  • have healed him when he
  • 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:06.210
  • was--when he had the sniffles,
  • 00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:08.180
  • right?
  • 00:18:08.180 --> 00:18:09.200
  • He didn't need to--why did Jesus
  • 00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.050
  • let him die?
  • 00:18:12.050 --> 00:18:13.090
  • Why did Jesus let him die and
  • 00:18:13.090 --> 00:18:15.010
  • rot in the tomb for 4 days?
  • 00:18:15.010 --> 00:18:17.000
  • Why?
  • 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:17.220
  • Because he wanted to do a
  • 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:20.090
  • miracle that would blow the
  • 00:18:20.090 --> 00:18:21.230
  • minds of everyone there to say,
  • 00:18:21.230 --> 00:18:24.060
  • "I have the power over life and
  • 00:18:24.060 --> 00:18:26.280
  • death."
  • 00:18:26.280 --> 00:18:29.070
  • God wants to point to himself
  • 00:18:29.070 --> 00:18:30.230
  • through these miracles.
  • 00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:34.000
  • So it's, you know--so you kind
  • 00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:37.080
  • of wonder, "How could somebody
  • 00:18:37.080 --> 00:18:39.010
  • read the Bible and not get the
  • 00:18:39.010 --> 00:18:40.070
  • fact that Jesus was specifically
  • 00:18:40.070 --> 00:18:41.240
  • doing a miracle on purpose to
  • 00:18:41.240 --> 00:18:43.100
  • impress people, blow their
  • 00:18:43.100 --> 00:18:46.030
  • minds, so that they would
  • 00:18:46.030 --> 00:18:47.030
  • just say, 'Wow.'"
  • 00:18:47.030 --> 00:18:48.130
  • Same thing with the Red Sea.
  • 00:18:48.130 --> 00:18:49.040
  • God could have figured out a
  • 00:18:49.040 --> 00:18:50.070
  • less crazy way to get the
  • 00:18:50.070 --> 00:18:52.140
  • Israelites to safety.
  • 00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:53.190
  • - Leon: Boat floated over from
  • 00:18:53.190 --> 00:18:54.160
  • the other side.
  • 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:55.090
  • - Eric: Right, there's all
  • 00:18:55.090 --> 00:18:55.290
  • kinds of ways that he could have
  • 00:18:55.290 --> 00:18:57.020
  • gotten 'em there.
  • 00:18:57.020 --> 00:18:57.240
  • He chose to part the Red Sea, to
  • 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.230
  • blow their mind so that forever
  • 00:19:00.230 --> 00:19:02.270
  • they would remember,
  • 00:19:02.270 --> 00:19:04.040
  • "This is the God who saved us."
  • 00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:06.010
  • - Leon: Well, Jesus was very
  • 00:19:06.010 --> 00:19:07.050
  • clear when he said in John, that
  • 00:19:07.050 --> 00:19:09.200
  • "it's better for me to go,"
  • 00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.110
  • because when Jesus was here he
  • 00:19:11.110 --> 00:19:12.260
  • wasn't omnipresent in his--in
  • 00:19:12.260 --> 00:19:14.220
  • that physical body.
  • 00:19:14.220 --> 00:19:16.090
  • But when he left, he was sending
  • 00:19:16.090 --> 00:19:18.050
  • Holy Spirit and then he would
  • 00:19:18.050 --> 00:19:19.100
  • lead us into all truth.
  • 00:19:19.100 --> 00:19:21.140
  • We would do what he was doing.
  • 00:19:21.140 --> 00:19:22.180
  • He would show us things to come.
  • 00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:24.130
  • He wouldn't just be around us,
  • 00:19:24.130 --> 00:19:25.190
  • he'd be within us.
  • 00:19:25.190 --> 00:19:26.260
  • And so we have to.
  • 00:19:26.260 --> 00:19:28.200
  • We can't deny our birthright of
  • 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:31.040
  • we need to see miracles and help
  • 00:19:31.040 --> 00:19:32.110
  • people with them.
  • 00:19:32.110 --> 00:19:33.100
  • - Eric: And, you know, and the
  • 00:19:33.100 --> 00:19:34.020
  • other thing I wanna say
  • 00:19:34.020 --> 00:19:34.230
  • important is that everybody
  • 00:19:34.230 --> 00:19:36.050
  • experiences miracles
  • 00:19:36.050 --> 00:19:38.060
  • differently.
  • 00:19:38.060 --> 00:19:39.130
  • And everybody hears from God
  • 00:19:39.130 --> 00:19:40.070
  • differently.
  • 00:19:40.070 --> 00:19:40.280
  • It's the same God but he--you
  • 00:19:40.280 --> 00:19:42.000
  • know, when I think about how
  • 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.120
  • many miracles I've had, I could
  • 00:19:44.120 --> 00:19:45.190
  • probably point to 12 or
  • 00:19:45.190 --> 00:19:46.260
  • something over the course of 28
  • 00:19:46.260 --> 00:19:48.080
  • years that I would say, "That
  • 00:19:48.080 --> 00:19:50.010
  • was clearly God," right?
  • 00:19:50.010 --> 00:19:51.150
  • I have friends who are full of
  • 00:19:51.150 --> 00:19:52.180
  • faith who have never had a
  • 00:19:52.180 --> 00:19:53.280
  • miracle like that.
  • 00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:55.020
  • Then I have friends who are full
  • 00:19:55.020 --> 00:19:56.120
  • all kinds.
  • 00:19:58.220 --> 00:19:59.240
  • They've seen angels, they've
  • 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:01.000
  • talked to Jesus, they've had
  • 00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:01.260
  • crazy stuff that I'm jealous
  • 00:20:01.260 --> 00:20:02.290
  • when I hear it, right?
  • 00:20:02.290 --> 00:20:04.240
  • And the point of the matter is
  • 00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:06.110
  • that God is not a candy machine
  • 00:20:06.190 --> 00:20:09.190
  • that, "Oh, if I pray this
  • 00:20:09.190 --> 00:20:10.110
  • special prayer, I get to special
  • 00:20:10.110 --> 00:20:11.140
  • exercise my faith, put a seed of
  • 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:12.090
  • faith, I'm gonna get my
  • 00:20:12.090 --> 00:20:13.060
  • miracle."
  • 00:20:13.060 --> 00:20:13.260
  • God will not jump when we say,
  • 00:20:15.280 --> 00:20:17.030
  • "Jump."
  • 00:20:17.030 --> 00:20:17.290
  • God says, "I just want you to
  • 00:20:17.290 --> 00:20:20.190
  • know that I can do miracles and
  • 00:20:20.190 --> 00:20:22.250
  • I will speak to you and I'll do
  • 00:20:22.250 --> 00:20:23.280
  • miracles but when I decide."
  • 00:20:23.280 --> 00:20:25.270
  • So your job is to have the
  • 00:20:25.270 --> 00:20:27.180
  • faith, to be expectant, but if I
  • 00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:30.060
  • don't do it, then don't get mad.
  • 00:20:30.060 --> 00:20:31.220
  • Because first of all,
  • 00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:33.280
  • he answers everything.
  • 00:20:33.280 --> 00:20:35.080
  • Whether we see it or not, he
  • 00:20:35.080 --> 00:20:36.050
  • answers it, right?
  • 00:20:36.050 --> 00:20:36.280
  • So that's very important
  • 00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:38.070
  • because, you know, sometimes you
  • 00:20:38.070 --> 00:20:39.210
  • have Christians putting that on
  • 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:40.220
  • their friends, like, "Well, you
  • 00:20:40.220 --> 00:20:41.170
  • know, your friend died because
  • 00:20:41.170 --> 00:20:43.250
  • they didn't have enough faith or
  • 00:20:43.250 --> 00:20:45.080
  • they don't--" It's like,
  • 00:20:45.080 --> 00:20:46.060
  • "No, no, no, no, no."
  • 00:20:46.060 --> 00:20:47.100
  • That's making them the healer.
  • 00:20:47.100 --> 00:20:49.260
  • Jesus is the healer, not, you
  • 00:20:49.260 --> 00:20:51.050
  • know, your friend.
  • 00:20:51.050 --> 00:20:52.110
  • So it gets a little bit--yeah.
  • 00:20:52.110 --> 00:20:53.130
  • - Leon: So good.
  • 00:20:53.130 --> 00:20:54.110
  • So true.
  • 00:20:54.110 --> 00:20:54.290
  • Yeah, that's very true.
  • 00:20:54.290 --> 00:20:55.230
  • You know, some Christians
  • 00:20:55.230 --> 00:20:56.280
  • believe the Bible is all--they
  • 00:20:57.280 --> 00:21:01.000
  • almost treat it like a magic
  • 00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:02.040
  • book of hexes.
  • 00:21:02.040 --> 00:21:04.140
  • And if you can find the right
  • 00:21:04.140 --> 00:21:05.180
  • hex in the right book with the
  • 00:21:05.180 --> 00:21:07.080
  • right thing and say it the right
  • 00:21:07.080 --> 00:21:08.200
  • way, Elizabethan English.
  • 00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.120
  • But the Bible says that it's
  • 00:21:10.120 --> 00:21:12.110
  • about heart stuff, you know, and
  • 00:21:12.110 --> 00:21:14.090
  • I don't mean good or bad.
  • 00:21:14.090 --> 00:21:15.140
  • I just mean that we've gotta get
  • 00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:16.100
  • the Word into us.
  • 00:21:16.100 --> 00:21:17.270
  • And then he'll guide us.
  • 00:21:17.270 --> 00:21:18.230
  • - Eric: Well, think about this.
  • 00:21:18.230 --> 00:21:19.240
  • If people think, you know,
  • 00:21:19.240 --> 00:21:21.100
  • people--Christians will quote
  • 00:21:21.100 --> 00:21:23.010
  • Scripture, right?
  • 00:21:23.010 --> 00:21:24.070
  • They think it's this magic
  • 00:21:24.070 --> 00:21:25.080
  • stuff, right?
  • 00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:26.070
  • And if you think, like, the
  • 00:21:26.070 --> 00:21:27.100
  • Scripture's magic, Satan quoted
  • 00:21:27.100 --> 00:21:29.190
  • the Scripture.
  • 00:21:29.190 --> 00:21:31.090
  • - Leon: Exactly.
  • 00:21:31.090 --> 00:21:31.260
  • Of Jesus.
  • 00:21:31.260 --> 00:21:32.230
  • - Eric: Okay, I could teach a
  • 00:21:32.230 --> 00:21:33.240
  • parrot to quote Scripture, okay?
  • 00:21:34.100 --> 00:21:37.100
  • The logos of God, okay, the Word
  • 00:21:37.100 --> 00:21:39.160
  • of God, capital "W," that's the
  • 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:40.230
  • anointed Word of God so God's
  • 00:21:40.230 --> 00:21:43.020
  • anointing has to be on it.
  • 00:21:43.020 --> 00:21:44.280
  • When the devil speaks it, God's
  • 00:21:44.280 --> 00:21:46.030
  • anointing is not on it.
  • 00:21:46.030 --> 00:21:47.150
  • If I speak it like a magic
  • 00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:48.220
  • spell, God is not in it.
  • 00:21:48.220 --> 00:21:50.250
  • If a mynah bird or a parrot
  • 00:21:50.250 --> 00:21:52.080
  • speaks it, God is not in it, you
  • 00:21:52.080 --> 00:21:53.250
  • know?
  • 00:21:53.250 --> 00:21:54.170
  • It's--but if Balaam's ass speaks
  • 00:21:54.170 --> 00:21:56.130
  • it, God is in it so that's--it
  • 00:21:56.130 --> 00:21:58.160
  • gets complicated.
  • 00:21:58.160 --> 00:21:59.150
  • - Leon: Numbers.
  • 00:21:59.150 --> 00:22:00.140
  • - Eric: You got it.
  • 00:22:00.140 --> 00:22:01.110
  • But so it's like God has to be
  • 00:22:01.110 --> 00:22:02.080
  • in it.
  • 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:02.280
  • And sometimes Christians think
  • 00:22:02.280 --> 00:22:03.220
  • that, "Oh, it's just this magic
  • 00:22:03.220 --> 00:22:04.190
  • book and I quote these words."
  • 00:22:04.190 --> 00:22:05.210
  • It's, like, you know, if you
  • 00:22:05.210 --> 00:22:06.200
  • bring faith to that, yes, the
  • 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:07.150
  • Lord is in it.
  • 00:22:07.150 --> 00:22:08.160
  • - Leon: But I think what I love
  • 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:09.100
  • about what you're saying, is I
  • 00:22:09.100 --> 00:22:11.090
  • still--as I travel--I travel a
  • 00:22:11.090 --> 00:22:12.230
  • lot around the world with the
  • 00:22:12.230 --> 00:22:13.260
  • church and there's a whole
  • 00:22:13.260 --> 00:22:15.050
  • segment of the church,
  • 00:22:15.050 --> 00:22:16.160
  • especially in the first world,
  • 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.020
  • like America, Canada, England,
  • 00:22:18.020 --> 00:22:19.060
  • that we hardly see miracles.
  • 00:22:19.060 --> 00:22:21.170
  • Yet in the third world, I'm
  • 00:22:21.170 --> 00:22:23.060
  • meeting pastors and leaders that
  • 00:22:23.060 --> 00:22:24.180
  • have explosions and proof.
  • 00:22:24.180 --> 00:22:26.090
  • So I think if we could just
  • 00:22:26.090 --> 00:22:28.010
  • build that expectation again.
  • 00:22:28.010 --> 00:22:30.120
  • Be open, believing.
  • 00:22:30.120 --> 00:22:31.230
  • Pursue love.
  • 00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:33.010
  • - Eric: And be hungry.
  • 00:22:33.010 --> 00:22:34.040
  • Be hungry and say, "God, I know
  • 00:22:34.040 --> 00:22:35.080
  • I can't do anything without you,
  • 00:22:35.080 --> 00:22:37.210
  • you know?
  • 00:22:37.210 --> 00:22:38.290
  • I know it," yeah.
  • 00:22:38.290 --> 00:22:40.000
  • - Leon: Thank you for being
  • 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.260
  • with us today.
  • 00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:41.150
  • - Eric: Oh, my pleasure.
  • 00:22:41.150 --> 00:22:42.040
  • - Leon: This has been awesome.
  • 00:22:42.040 --> 00:22:42.260
  • - Eric: My pleasure.
  • 00:22:42.260 --> 00:22:43.200
  • - Leon: We're gonna go to a
  • 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.130
  • song in just a moment and it's
  • 00:22:44.130 --> 00:22:45.210
  • Onaje Jefferson and it's gonna
  • 00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:47.110
  • be "Amazing Grace."
  • 00:22:47.110 --> 00:22:49.000
  • And that was awesome.
  • 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:50.030
  • Did you enjoy him today?
  • 00:22:50.030 --> 00:22:51.010
  • That was incredible.
  • 00:22:51.010 --> 00:22:52.080
  • Thank you so much.
  • 00:22:52.080 --> 00:22:55.060
  • - Eric: Thank you.
  • 00:22:55.060 --> 00:22:55.270
  • Bless you.
  • 00:22:55.270 --> 00:22:58.080
  • - Onaje Jefferson: TBN
  • 00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:58.270
  • New York, get thankful for
  • 00:22:58.270 --> 00:23:00.030
  • his amazing grace tonight?
  • 00:23:00.030 --> 00:23:02.010
  • C'mon, if you're living in his
  • 00:23:02.010 --> 00:23:03.010
  • grace, can I see you standing
  • 00:23:03.010 --> 00:23:04.020
  • with us tonight?
  • 00:23:04.020 --> 00:23:06.170
  • Oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:23:06.170 --> 00:23:08.270
  • Thankful for your grace,
  • 00:23:08.270 --> 00:23:10.050
  • Oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:23:14.070 --> 00:23:15.200
  • Who breaks the power
  • 00:23:15.200 --> 00:23:17.250
  • of sin and darkness?
  • 00:23:17.250 --> 00:23:20.070
  • and so much stronger?
  • 00:23:22.170 --> 00:23:25.030
  • The King of Glory,
  • 00:23:25.030 --> 00:23:27.090
  • the King above all kings.
  • 00:23:28.060 --> 00:23:31.060
  • Hey!
  • 00:23:31.060 --> 00:23:32.060
  • C'mon, you know that tonight
  • 00:23:32.110 --> 00:23:35.110
  • Who shakes the whole earth
  • 00:23:35.110 --> 00:23:37.180
  • with holy thunder?
  • 00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:39.290
  • Who leaves us breathless
  • 00:23:39.290 --> 00:23:42.080
  • in awe and wonder?
  • 00:23:42.080 --> 00:23:44.260
  • The King of Glory,
  • 00:23:44.260 --> 00:23:47.090
  • the King above all kings.
  • 00:23:47.250 --> 00:23:50.250
  • C'mon, let's lift him up.
  • 00:23:50.250 --> 00:23:51.290
  • This is--
  • 00:23:51.290 --> 00:23:52.190
  • This is amazing grace.
  • 00:23:53.290 --> 00:23:56.290
  • This is unfailing love.
  • 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:02.020
  • Oh, that you would take
  • 00:24:02.020 --> 00:24:03.250
  • my place.
  • 00:24:03.250 --> 00:24:06.170
  • You would bear my cross.
  • 00:24:06.170 --> 00:24:07.160
  • That you would bear my cross
  • 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:09.140
  • Thank you, Jesus.
  • 00:24:09.140 --> 00:24:11.270
  • You laid down your life
  • 00:24:12.290 --> 00:24:15.290
  • that I would be set free.
  • 00:24:16.280 --> 00:24:19.280
  • Yes, Lord,
  • 00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:20.290
  • you freed us, Lord.
  • 00:24:20.290 --> 00:24:22.280
  • Whoa-oh-oh, Jesus,
  • 00:24:22.280 --> 00:24:24.250
  • I sing for all that
  • 00:24:24.250 --> 00:24:27.080
  • you've done for me.
  • 00:24:28.040 --> 00:24:31.040
  • Has he done anything
  • 00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:31.250
  • for you, TBN?
  • 00:24:31.250 --> 00:24:33.180
  • Hey!
  • 00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:34.170
  • All that you've done for me,
  • 00:24:34.170 --> 00:24:36.190
  • oh-oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:24:36.190 --> 00:24:38.180
  • Who brings our chaos back
  • 00:24:38.180 --> 00:24:41.000
  • into order?
  • 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:43.120
  • Who makes the orphan
  • 00:24:43.120 --> 00:24:45.220
  • a son and daughter?
  • 00:24:45.220 --> 00:24:48.170
  • The King of Glory,
  • 00:24:48.170 --> 00:24:51.040
  • the King of Glory.
  • 00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:53.170
  • Who rules the nations
  • 00:24:53.170 --> 00:24:55.260
  • with truth and justice?
  • 00:24:55.260 --> 00:24:58.040
  • Shines like the sun in
  • 00:24:58.040 --> 00:25:00.170
  • all of its brilliance?
  • 00:25:00.170 --> 00:25:03.040
  • The King of Glory,
  • 00:25:03.040 --> 00:25:05.160
  • the King above all kings.
  • 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.000
  • This is amazing grace.
  • 00:25:11.250 --> 00:25:14.250
  • Hey!
  • 00:25:14.250 --> 00:25:15.190
  • Unfailing love.
  • 00:25:15.190 --> 00:25:18.150
  • Ooh-ooh-ooh-ooh,
  • 00:25:18.150 --> 00:25:20.240
  • that you would take my place
  • 00:25:21.190 --> 00:25:24.190
  • So glad you did it, Lord.
  • 00:25:24.190 --> 00:25:25.200
  • Yeah, and you would bear
  • 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:26.270
  • my cross.
  • 00:25:26.270 --> 00:25:28.120
  • You laid down and you
  • 00:25:28.120 --> 00:25:29.140
  • laid down your life that
  • 00:25:31.080 --> 00:25:34.080
  • I would be set free.
  • 00:25:34.140 --> 00:25:37.140
  • Hey, whoa-oh-oh, Jesus,
  • 00:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.000
  • I sing for all
  • 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:44.210
  • that you've done for me.
  • 00:25:46.060 --> 00:25:49.060
  • All you've done for me.
  • 00:25:49.060 --> 00:25:51.290
  • Worthy is the Lamb who
  • 00:25:51.290 --> 00:25:54.020
  • was slain.
  • 00:25:54.020 --> 00:25:56.220
  • Worthy is the King who
  • 00:25:56.220 --> 00:25:58.270
  • conquered the grave.
  • 00:25:58.270 --> 00:26:01.140
  • Whoa, worthy is the Lamb
  • 00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:03.090
  • who was slain.
  • 00:26:03.090 --> 00:26:06.070
  • Yeah, worthy is the King
  • 00:26:06.070 --> 00:26:08.060
  • who conquered the grave.
  • 00:26:08.060 --> 00:26:10.250
  • You say!
  • 00:26:10.250 --> 00:26:11.200
  • Worthy is the Lamb
  • 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.050
  • who was slain.
  • 00:26:13.050 --> 00:26:15.050
  • He's worthy tonight of
  • 00:26:15.050 --> 00:26:16.100
  • all praise.
  • 00:26:16.100 --> 00:26:17.220
  • Worthy is the King
  • 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:18.240
  • who conquered the grave.
  • 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.100
  • Worthy is the Lamb
  • 00:26:21.100 --> 00:26:22.270
  • who was slain.
  • 00:26:22.270 --> 00:26:24.180
  • Worthy.
  • 00:26:24.180 --> 00:26:25.210
  • Yes, he is.
  • 00:26:25.210 --> 00:26:26.230
  • Worthy is the King who
  • 00:26:26.230 --> 00:26:28.090
  • conquered the grave.
  • 00:26:28.090 --> 00:26:29.250
  • This is amazing grace.
  • 00:26:29.250 --> 00:26:32.070
  • C'mon, sing it out.
  • 00:26:32.070 --> 00:26:33.290
  • This is unfailing love that
  • 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:37.200
  • you would take my place.
  • 00:26:39.190 --> 00:26:42.190
  • Oh, that you would bear
  • 00:26:42.190 --> 00:26:44.070
  • my cross.
  • 00:26:44.070 --> 00:26:45.110
  • That you would bear my cross
  • 00:26:45.110 --> 00:26:46.250
  • So glad you did it.
  • 00:26:46.250 --> 00:26:48.130
  • You laid down, you laid down
  • 00:26:48.130 --> 00:26:50.170
  • your life for me that
  • 00:26:50.210 --> 00:26:53.210
  • I would be set free.
  • 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:57.000
  • Yeah-hey-hey-hey-hey.
  • 00:26:57.010 --> 00:27:00.030
  • Oh, Jesus I sing for all
  • 00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:03.060
  • that you've done for me.
  • 00:27:05.060 --> 00:27:08.060
  • Oh-oh-oh-whoa.
  • 00:27:08.060 --> 00:27:10.240
  • Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:13.220
  • All that you've done for me,
  • 00:27:13.220 --> 00:27:16.120
  • Lord.
  • 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:19.160
  • Your amazing grace.
  • 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:22.060
  • Oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:27:22.060 --> 00:27:23.110
  • - Onaje: Somebody shout
  • 00:27:28.060 --> 00:27:28.240
  • "Hallelujah" in this place.
  • 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:30.250
  • [audience applauding]
  • 00:27:36.010 --> 00:27:39.010
  • - Leon: Onaje is--Jefferson
  • 00:27:39.010 --> 00:27:39.250
  • is the worship leader, served as
  • 00:27:39.250 --> 00:27:41.160
  • part of the writing team,
  • 00:27:43.290 --> 00:27:45.070
  • a member of the traveling group,
  • 00:27:45.070 --> 00:27:46.130
  • He currently serves as a member
  • 00:27:53.140 --> 00:27:55.140
  • of Israel & New Breed.
  • 00:27:55.140 --> 00:27:56.260
  • He's got a CD out called
  • 00:27:56.260 --> 00:27:58.020
  • "Extended Rain."
  • 00:27:58.020 --> 00:27:59.240
  • So I wanna encourage you to go
  • 00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:00.260
  • out and get that.
  • 00:28:00.260 --> 00:28:02.140
  • That rocked, that was so good.
  • 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:03.280
  • Well, my next guest, Dr. Elmer
  • 00:28:03.280 --> 00:28:06.100
  • Towns, is the co-founder and
  • 00:28:06.100 --> 00:28:08.070
  • Vice President of Liberty
  • 00:28:08.070 --> 00:28:09.270
  • University.
  • 00:28:09.270 --> 00:28:11.120
  • College seminary professor,
  • 00:28:11.120 --> 00:28:12.190
  • author of popular scholarly
  • 00:28:12.190 --> 00:28:13.290
  • works, editor of two
  • 00:28:13.290 --> 00:28:15.200
  • encyclopedias, a popular seminar
  • 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:17.270
  • lecturer, has developed over 20
  • 00:28:17.270 --> 00:28:19.150
  • resource packets on leadership
  • 00:28:19.150 --> 00:28:21.080
  • education.
  • 00:28:21.080 --> 00:28:22.210
  • Listen to this.
  • 00:28:22.210 --> 00:28:23.190
  • Published over 100 books listed
  • 00:28:23.190 --> 00:28:25.280
  • in the Library of Congress,
  • 00:28:25.280 --> 00:28:27.150
  • 8 listed in the Christian
  • 00:28:27.150 --> 00:28:29.150
  • Booksellers' Bestselling List,
  • 00:28:29.150 --> 00:28:31.150
  • several becoming accepted as
  • 00:28:31.150 --> 00:28:32.200
  • college textbooks, co-founder of
  • 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:35.050
  • Liberty University, and is the
  • 00:28:35.050 --> 00:28:37.010
  • Dean Emeritus of the School of
  • 00:28:37.010 --> 00:28:38.210
  • Religion and is also Dean of the
  • 00:28:38.210 --> 00:28:40.010
  • Liberty Baptist Theological
  • 00:28:40.010 --> 00:28:42.100
  • Seminary.
  • 00:28:42.100 --> 00:28:43.060
  • That is, like, wow, what a list.
  • 00:28:43.060 --> 00:28:45.170
  • Give him a hand, Elmer, as he
  • 00:28:45.170 --> 00:28:46.090
  • come ons out.
  • 00:28:46.090 --> 00:28:47.020
  • So good to have you with us.
  • 00:28:48.030 --> 00:28:51.030
  • [audience applauding]
  • 00:28:53.070 --> 00:28:56.070
  • - Elmer Towns: I love Jesus.
  • 00:28:59.060 --> 00:29:02.080
  • I love Jesus.
  • 00:29:02.080 --> 00:29:04.010
  • Sign language.
  • 00:29:04.010 --> 00:29:05.100
  • I love Jesus.
  • 00:29:05.150 --> 00:29:08.150
  • Ah-hey!
  • 00:29:08.150 --> 00:29:09.090
  • - Leon: Awesome.
  • 00:29:09.090 --> 00:29:12.000
  • It is an honor to have you here,
  • 00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.290
  • my friend.
  • 00:29:14.290 --> 00:29:16.000
  • - Elmer: Thank you, my friend.
  • 00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:16.230
  • We've been friends before.
  • 00:29:16.230 --> 00:29:17.210
  • We've been together before.
  • 00:29:17.210 --> 00:29:18.150
  • - Leon: Ah, it was such a good
  • 00:29:18.150 --> 00:29:19.270
  • time.
  • 00:29:19.270 --> 00:29:20.160
  • You came to Canada.
  • 00:29:20.160 --> 00:29:21.210
  • We met and spent hours just
  • 00:29:21.210 --> 00:29:23.010
  • talking about the Word.
  • 00:29:23.010 --> 00:29:24.210
  • - Elmer: I spent 5 years in
  • 00:29:24.210 --> 00:29:25.180
  • Canada.
  • 00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:26.200
  • Five long, cold winters.
  • 00:29:28.150 --> 00:29:31.150
  • Oh my goodness.
  • 00:29:31.150 --> 00:29:32.170
  • I said, "God, if you ever get me
  • 00:29:32.170 --> 00:29:34.150
  • down south again, I'll never
  • 00:29:34.150 --> 00:29:36.150
  • complain about hot weather.
  • 00:29:37.010 --> 00:29:40.010
  • And I've been in the south for
  • 00:29:40.010 --> 00:29:40.270
  • years and years, most of my
  • 00:29:40.270 --> 00:29:42.160
  • life, so.
  • 00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.110
  • - Leon: You know, I have read
  • 00:29:43.110 --> 00:29:44.140
  • so many of your books and you
  • 00:29:44.140 --> 00:29:45.260
  • are a prolific writer and
  • 00:29:45.260 --> 00:29:48.170
  • your--the way your brain thinks
  • 00:29:48.170 --> 00:29:50.130
  • and just--we were talking about
  • 00:29:50.130 --> 00:29:52.220
  • one of your--one of the books
  • 00:29:52.220 --> 00:29:53.270
  • you were doing on fasting.
  • 00:29:53.270 --> 00:29:55.140
  • - Elmer: Oh, yes, okay.
  • 00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:56.110
  • - Leon: And another one that I
  • 00:29:56.110 --> 00:29:57.150
  • talked about, meditation.
  • 00:29:57.150 --> 00:29:58.210
  • It was the one on meditation
  • 00:29:58.210 --> 00:29:59.210
  • that we began to--and I said,
  • 00:29:59.210 --> 00:30:00.260
  • "That's my favorite one of all
  • 00:30:00.260 --> 00:30:01.290
  • time."
  • 00:30:01.290 --> 00:30:02.220
  • And you said that was the least
  • 00:30:02.220 --> 00:30:03.200
  • popular one that you--
  • 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:04.280
  • and meditate.
  • 00:30:07.100 --> 00:30:08.130
  • They're active.
  • 00:30:08.130 --> 00:30:09.230
  • They wanna go do something.
  • 00:30:09.230 --> 00:30:10.250
  • But let me tell you.
  • 00:30:10.250 --> 00:30:11.160
  • I'm not a author, a writer.
  • 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:13.080
  • I'm a teacher.
  • 00:30:13.080 --> 00:30:14.050
  • And writing is the extension
  • 00:30:14.050 --> 00:30:15.200
  • And if I want to extend my
  • 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:18.110
  • teaching ministry, I write what
  • 00:30:18.110 --> 00:30:20.020
  • I think and I write what I teach
  • 00:30:20.020 --> 00:30:22.000
  • and what I teach and what I
  • 00:30:22.000 --> 00:30:23.190
  • teach I write, so.
  • 00:30:23.190 --> 00:30:25.230
  • - Leon: That's good.
  • 00:30:25.230 --> 00:30:27.060
  • What do your devotions
  • 00:30:27.060 --> 00:30:28.070
  • look like?
  • 00:30:28.070 --> 00:30:29.000
  • - Elmer: Oh my goodness.
  • 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:29.270
  • - Leon: When you spend time
  • 00:30:29.270 --> 00:30:30.220
  • with God, I have this--I've been
  • 00:30:30.220 --> 00:30:32.070
  • wanting to ask you this question
  • 00:30:32.070 --> 00:30:33.000
  • so--when you--if you get a
  • 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:34.120
  • chance to spend a time with God
  • 00:30:34.120 --> 00:30:35.170
  • each day and you just--what
  • 00:30:35.170 --> 00:30:37.110
  • does that look like for you?
  • 00:30:37.110 --> 00:30:38.250
  • - Elmer: Okay, let me tell you.
  • 00:30:38.250 --> 00:30:40.050
  • Thirteen years ago, one morning
  • 00:30:40.050 --> 00:30:42.250
  • I was reading Psalm 37,
  • 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:46.000
  • "Delight thyself in the Lord
  • 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:47.180
  • and he will do," what?
  • 00:30:47.180 --> 00:30:49.050
  • "Give you the desires of your
  • 00:30:49.050 --> 00:30:50.170
  • heart."
  • 00:30:50.170 --> 00:30:52.040
  • And I said, "God, you don't give
  • 00:30:52.040 --> 00:30:53.190
  • me my desires a lot of times."
  • 00:30:53.190 --> 00:30:54.280
  • And so I found the Hebrew text
  • 00:30:54.280 --> 00:30:56.150
  • and I looked it up and then I
  • 00:30:56.150 --> 00:30:57.170
  • wrote it--you know, when
  • 00:30:57.170 --> 00:30:59.280
  • you make God number one in your
  • 00:30:59.280 --> 00:31:01.140
  • life, then what you want is what
  • 00:31:01.140 --> 00:31:03.150
  • God wants and he'll give it to
  • 00:31:03.150 --> 00:31:05.120
  • you.
  • 00:31:05.120 --> 00:31:06.060
  • - Leon: Yeah.
  • 00:31:06.060 --> 00:31:07.030
  • - Elmer: And so I wrote the
  • 00:31:07.210 --> 00:31:10.210
  • whole Psalm 37 into a prayer.
  • 00:31:11.180 --> 00:31:14.180
  • And then, next morning,
  • 00:31:14.180 --> 00:31:15.180
  • Psalm 27.
  • 00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:16.270
  • And next morning, Psalm 1.
  • 00:31:16.270 --> 00:31:18.240
  • That's 3 days.
  • 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:19.260
  • I said, "This is rich."
  • 00:31:19.260 --> 00:31:21.040
  • And so for the next 150 days I
  • 00:31:21.040 --> 00:31:22.170
  • did the Book of Psalms and it's
  • 00:31:22.170 --> 00:31:24.120
  • called "Praying the Psalms."
  • 00:31:24.120 --> 00:31:26.230
  • I did the whole Book of Psalms.
  • 00:31:26.230 --> 00:31:28.110
  • Then I did Proverbs.
  • 00:31:28.110 --> 00:31:29.170
  • Oh, that was rich.
  • 00:31:29.170 --> 00:31:31.090
  • - Leon: That would be.
  • 00:31:31.090 --> 00:31:32.160
  • - Elmer: And then I did praying
  • 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:33.240
  • the Book of Job.
  • 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.280
  • Nobody wanted to buy that book.
  • 00:31:34.280 --> 00:31:37.140
  • Nobody wants to suffer.
  • 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.000
  • So it's in a--it's called a
  • 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:42.240
  • prayer Bible.
  • 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:44.120
  • I did a--I turned the whole
  • 00:31:44.120 --> 00:31:46.200
  • Bible into prayers.
  • 00:31:46.200 --> 00:31:48.170
  • And so that was a rich thing
  • 00:31:48.170 --> 00:31:50.070
  • for me.
  • 00:31:50.070 --> 00:31:51.060
  • - Leon: Do you find that
  • 00:31:51.060 --> 00:31:51.250
  • when--in the people you know and
  • 00:31:51.250 --> 00:31:53.010
  • in yourself, like, there's a lot
  • 00:31:53.010 --> 00:31:54.190
  • of people that in Canada we call
  • 00:31:54.190 --> 00:31:56.040
  • them eggheads or they--they're
  • 00:31:56.040 --> 00:31:57.100
  • very cerebral but they don't
  • 00:31:57.100 --> 00:31:58.230
  • build anything.
  • 00:31:58.230 --> 00:32:00.130
  • But you're not that at all.
  • 00:32:00.130 --> 00:32:01.280
  • In your life, the things you've
  • 00:32:01.280 --> 00:32:03.030
  • built, the things that you've
  • 00:32:03.030 --> 00:32:04.080
  • done for God.
  • 00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:05.070
  • I think when people are going
  • 00:32:05.070 --> 00:32:06.110
  • somewhere for God, the Word
  • 00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:09.140
  • becomes even richer 'cause it's
  • 00:32:09.140 --> 00:32:10.260
  • not just cerebral.
  • 00:32:10.260 --> 00:32:12.070
  • - Elmer: Let's talk about
  • 00:32:12.070 --> 00:32:13.080
  • building something.
  • 00:32:13.080 --> 00:32:13.270
  • When I was in Canada, I tried to
  • 00:32:13.270 --> 00:32:15.170
  • build the best academic
  • 00:32:15.170 --> 00:32:17.020
  • institution.
  • 00:32:17.020 --> 00:32:18.280
  • It was called Winnipeg
  • 00:32:18.280 --> 00:32:19.210
  • Bible College.
  • 00:32:19.210 --> 00:32:20.230
  • And we got that college
  • 00:32:20.230 --> 00:32:21.280
  • accredited by the province of
  • 00:32:21.280 --> 00:32:23.080
  • Manitoba.
  • 00:32:23.080 --> 00:32:24.090
  • No other Bible College in all of
  • 00:32:24.090 --> 00:32:25.170
  • Canada was accredited.
  • 00:32:25.170 --> 00:32:26.290
  • And I still couldn't--I got
  • 00:32:27.050 --> 00:32:30.050
  • 84 students.
  • 00:32:30.050 --> 00:32:31.260
  • That's a little school.
  • 00:32:31.260 --> 00:32:33.050
  • That's a small school.
  • 00:32:33.050 --> 00:32:34.170
  • And I left, a beaten man.
  • 00:32:34.170 --> 00:32:36.180
  • I said, "Lord, I was a failure.
  • 00:32:36.180 --> 00:32:38.090
  • I didn't do a good job."
  • 00:32:38.090 --> 00:32:39.140
  • But I said, "If I ever do it
  • 00:32:39.140 --> 00:32:40.260
  • again, I'm gonna do two things."
  • 00:32:40.260 --> 00:32:43.000
  • There were a couple of big
  • 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:44.130
  • schools in Canada.
  • 00:32:44.130 --> 00:32:45.250
  • In those days, Prairie and
  • 00:32:45.250 --> 00:32:47.070
  • Briercrest had over 1.000
  • 00:32:47.070 --> 00:32:49.010
  • students.
  • 00:32:49.010 --> 00:32:50.000
  • I said, "I'm gonna find a man of
  • 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:50.250
  • God and I'm going to hitch onto
  • 00:32:50.250 --> 00:32:52.160
  • him and let him be the man of
  • 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:53.230
  • God and the spokesman.
  • 00:32:53.230 --> 00:32:54.220
  • I wanna build a school with a
  • 00:32:54.220 --> 00:32:56.090
  • great man.
  • 00:32:56.090 --> 00:32:57.150
  • And number two, I'm gonna make
  • 00:32:57.150 --> 00:32:58.240
  • the local church and the school
  • 00:32:58.240 --> 00:33:00.150
  • the same."
  • 00:33:00.150 --> 00:33:02.030
  • So we started Liberty University
  • 00:33:02.030 --> 00:33:04.030
  • and I said, "Every student has
  • 00:33:04.030 --> 00:33:05.240
  • to come to Thomas Road Baptist
  • 00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:07.210
  • Church and work in Thomas."
  • 00:33:07.210 --> 00:33:09.170
  • You learn ministry by doing
  • 00:33:09.170 --> 00:33:10.190
  • ministry.
  • 00:33:10.190 --> 00:33:12.260
  • You don't learn ministry in an
  • 00:33:12.260 --> 00:33:14.050
  • You learn soul-winning by
  • 00:33:16.070 --> 00:33:17.200
  • winning souls at the altar.
  • 00:33:17.200 --> 00:33:19.070
  • You learn soul-winning by going
  • 00:33:19.070 --> 00:33:20.280
  • out, knocking on doors.
  • 00:33:20.280 --> 00:33:22.040
  • when people go to sleep on you.
  • 00:33:25.060 --> 00:33:28.060
  • - Leon: Well, see,
  • 00:33:28.060 --> 00:33:28.220
  • this is what I'm saying, like--
  • 00:33:28.220 --> 00:33:29.210
  • - Elmer: But let me tell you.
  • 00:33:29.210 --> 00:33:30.120
  • - Leon: What?
  • 00:33:30.120 --> 00:33:31.040
  • - Elmer: That first year we had
  • 00:33:31.040 --> 00:33:31.260
  • 154.
  • 00:33:31.260 --> 00:33:32.190
  • Liberty today has more students
  • 00:33:32.210 --> 00:33:35.210
  • in ministry than any other
  • 00:33:35.210 --> 00:33:38.030
  • academic school in the world.
  • 00:33:38.030 --> 00:33:40.170
  • - Leon: Wow.
  • 00:33:40.170 --> 00:33:41.130
  • - Elmer: We have 114.000
  • 00:33:41.130 --> 00:33:43.050
  • students.
  • 00:33:43.170 --> 00:33:46.170
  • Now, they interrupted me.
  • 00:33:46.170 --> 00:33:47.150
  • You interrupted me.
  • 00:33:47.150 --> 00:33:48.250
  • You didn't hear what I said,
  • 00:33:48.250 --> 00:33:49.270
  • folks.
  • 00:33:49.270 --> 00:33:50.230
  • We have 114.000 students around
  • 00:33:50.230 --> 00:33:53.230
  • the world.
  • 00:33:53.230 --> 00:33:55.100
  • And we believe in putting people
  • 00:33:55.100 --> 00:33:57.160
  • in ministry but not ignoring the
  • 00:33:57.160 --> 00:34:00.020
  • mind.
  • 00:34:00.020 --> 00:34:01.100
  • I hope I've said something about
  • 00:34:01.100 --> 00:34:02.150
  • that but we try to put people in
  • 00:34:02.150 --> 00:34:04.080
  • ministry so God has blessed that
  • 00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:05.100
  • thing.
  • 00:34:05.100 --> 00:34:06.090
  • - Leon: Super.
  • 00:34:06.090 --> 00:34:07.050
  • - Elmer: A local church--no,
  • 00:34:07.050 --> 00:34:09.020
  • let's start this way.
  • 00:34:09.020 --> 00:34:09.230
  • A Christian college is the
  • 00:34:09.230 --> 00:34:10.260
  • extension of a local church at
  • 00:34:10.260 --> 00:34:12.140
  • the academic collegiate level.
  • 00:34:12.140 --> 00:34:15.010
  • Everything a church does to
  • 00:34:15.010 --> 00:34:17.060
  • carry out the Great Commission,
  • 00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:18.270
  • the college must do the same
  • 00:34:18.270 --> 00:34:20.040
  • thing as the church to carry out
  • 00:34:20.040 --> 00:34:22.110
  • the Great Commission.
  • 00:34:22.110 --> 00:34:23.140
  • And so that's what we do for
  • 00:34:23.140 --> 00:34:25.030
  • God.
  • 00:34:25.030 --> 00:34:25.220
  • - Leon: No, that's what I've
  • 00:34:25.220 --> 00:34:26.130
  • noticed.
  • 00:34:26.130 --> 00:34:26.290
  • 'Cause, like, when I read your
  • 00:34:26.290 --> 00:34:27.200
  • books or when I hear you talk,
  • 00:34:27.200 --> 00:34:28.110
  • like, there's some times I'll
  • 00:34:28.110 --> 00:34:30.140
  • read somebody's book or I'll
  • 00:34:30.140 --> 00:34:31.240
  • interview them and, as I'm
  • 00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:33.030
  • listening to them talk, I'm
  • 00:34:33.030 --> 00:34:34.080
  • going, "Okay, I get the doctrine
  • 00:34:34.080 --> 00:34:36.090
  • of it.
  • 00:34:36.090 --> 00:34:37.060
  • I just don't see you--I don't
  • 00:34:37.060 --> 00:34:38.140
  • think you've built anything with
  • 00:34:38.140 --> 00:34:39.290
  • that."
  • 00:34:39.290 --> 00:34:40.200
  • Because when you have to build
  • 00:34:40.200 --> 00:34:41.150
  • or do something for God, because
  • 00:34:41.150 --> 00:34:42.210
  • it's so practical.
  • 00:34:42.210 --> 00:34:43.280
  • The Bible is so practical.
  • 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:45.180
  • It's not just meant for you to
  • 00:34:45.180 --> 00:34:47.160
  • sit around and become smarter
  • 00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:49.020
  • than one like the Sadducees and
  • 00:34:49.020 --> 00:34:50.090
  • the Pharisees.
  • 00:34:50.090 --> 00:34:51.050
  • - Elmer: Two years ago, I
  • 00:34:51.050 --> 00:34:52.140
  • stepped down.
  • 00:34:52.140 --> 00:34:54.120
  • I semi-retired.
  • 00:34:54.120 --> 00:34:55.290
  • And I'm no longer--I thought,
  • 00:34:55.290 --> 00:34:57.280
  • "Boy, I'm gonna miss running
  • 00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.200
  • this school and running these
  • 00:35:00.200 --> 00:35:01.260
  • schools," and so about 2 days
  • 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:03.220
  • after I stepped down and
  • 00:35:03.220 --> 00:35:05.020
  • semi-retired, I was heading to
  • 00:35:05.020 --> 00:35:06.170
  • school and I was fussing over a
  • 00:35:06.170 --> 00:35:09.020
  • problem I had to do and "What am
  • 00:35:09.020 --> 00:35:10.170
  • I gonna do about this thing?"
  • 00:35:10.170 --> 00:35:11.140
  • And I was fussing and all of a
  • 00:35:11.140 --> 00:35:12.100
  • sudden it dawned on me.
  • 00:35:12.100 --> 00:35:13.040
  • I said, "I don't have to solve
  • 00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:14.260
  • that problem.
  • 00:35:14.260 --> 00:35:16.030
  • I'm gonna give it to him.
  • 00:35:16.030 --> 00:35:17.080
  • Let him do it."
  • 00:35:17.080 --> 00:35:18.270
  • - Leon: Delegation is great.
  • 00:35:18.270 --> 00:35:20.020
  • - Elmer: All of a sudden, I
  • 00:35:20.020 --> 00:35:20.220
  • loved it, you know?
  • 00:35:20.220 --> 00:35:22.000
  • - Leon: Well, I don't think
  • 00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:23.020
  • you've slowed down at all.
  • 00:35:23.020 --> 00:35:24.170
  • - Elmer: So I wrote a book,
  • 00:35:24.170 --> 00:35:25.130
  • "Three Searching Kings."
  • 00:35:25.130 --> 00:35:27.100
  • - Leon: Okay.
  • 00:35:27.100 --> 00:35:28.020
  • What's it about?
  • 00:35:28.020 --> 00:35:28.240
  • - Elmer: It's about the three
  • 00:35:28.240 --> 00:35:29.270
  • kings.
  • 00:35:29.270 --> 00:35:30.180
  • - Leon: Okay.
  • 00:35:30.180 --> 00:35:32.060
  • - Elmer: Now--
  • 00:35:32.060 --> 00:35:33.170
  • - Leon: That was a leading
  • 00:35:33.170 --> 00:35:34.070
  • question.
  • 00:35:34.070 --> 00:35:34.210
  • - Elmer: It was a good leading
  • 00:35:34.210 --> 00:35:35.130
  • question.
  • 00:35:35.130 --> 00:35:36.240
  • Now, a man came and spoke in our
  • 00:35:36.240 --> 00:35:39.180
  • chapel.
  • 00:35:39.180 --> 00:35:40.180
  • He said, "There weren't three
  • 00:35:40.180 --> 00:35:41.100
  • kings.
  • 00:35:41.100 --> 00:35:42.050
  • There were a hundred of 'em."
  • 00:35:42.050 --> 00:35:43.150
  • I never heard that.
  • 00:35:43.150 --> 00:35:45.040
  • And then he came back and he
  • 00:35:45.040 --> 00:35:45.290
  • said, "And they weren't kings,
  • 00:35:45.290 --> 00:35:47.180
  • they were magi."
  • 00:35:47.180 --> 00:35:48.250
  • And so I began to look it up.
  • 00:35:48.250 --> 00:35:51.000
  • And about 200 years after Jesus
  • 00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:53.130
  • died, they started writing about
  • 00:35:53.130 --> 00:35:56.120
  • these three kings.
  • 00:35:56.120 --> 00:35:58.200
  • And I began to research and
  • 00:35:58.200 --> 00:36:00.050
  • it--boy, there's all kinds of
  • 00:36:00.050 --> 00:36:01.140
  • literature with it.
  • 00:36:01.140 --> 00:36:02.170
  • And I found out that there were
  • 00:36:02.170 --> 00:36:03.280
  • three of them.
  • 00:36:03.280 --> 00:36:05.000
  • Now, more than because there
  • 00:36:05.000 --> 00:36:06.000
  • were three gifts.
  • 00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:06.250
  • But there were three of them and
  • 00:36:06.250 --> 00:36:08.000
  • I came to find out that one was
  • 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:09.120
  • from Persia.
  • 00:36:09.120 --> 00:36:11.090
  • That represented the Near East.
  • 00:36:11.090 --> 00:36:13.100
  • One was from Europe; that
  • 00:36:13.100 --> 00:36:15.050
  • represented the white face.
  • 00:36:15.050 --> 00:36:16.290
  • And one was from Africa,
  • 00:36:16.290 --> 00:36:18.030
  • representing the black face.
  • 00:36:18.030 --> 00:36:19.140
  • - Leon: Really?
  • 00:36:19.140 --> 00:36:20.000
  • - Elmer: Yes.
  • 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:20.250
  • - Leon: I've never heard that.
  • 00:36:20.250 --> 00:36:21.270
  • - Elmer: Oh, yes.
  • 00:36:21.270 --> 00:36:22.250
  • Matter of fact, if you're gonna
  • 00:36:22.250 --> 00:36:24.010
  • read it, read--sneak and read
  • 00:36:24.010 --> 00:36:26.140
  • the last chapter.
  • 00:36:26.140 --> 00:36:27.290
  • - Leon: Read it first?
  • 00:36:27.290 --> 00:36:28.190
  • - Elmer: Yeah.
  • 00:36:28.190 --> 00:36:29.040
  • Now, the last chapter,
  • 00:36:29.040 --> 00:36:30.170
  • God is in heaven.
  • 00:36:30.170 --> 00:36:31.290
  • He says, "Jewel."
  • 00:36:31.290 --> 00:36:33.090
  • He's called one of his angels,
  • 00:36:33.090 --> 00:36:34.170
  • "Jewel."
  • 00:36:34.170 --> 00:36:35.250
  • And Jewel runs up.
  • 00:36:35.250 --> 00:36:36.210
  • "Yes, God, what do you want?"
  • 00:36:36.210 --> 00:36:37.120
  • He said, "I'm gonna send you
  • 00:36:37.120 --> 00:36:38.020
  • down to Persia."
  • 00:36:38.020 --> 00:36:39.010
  • "What am I gonna do?"
  • 00:36:39.010 --> 00:36:39.230
  • He said, "I'm gonna bring three
  • 00:36:39.230 --> 00:36:40.230
  • men together by providence.
  • 00:36:40.230 --> 00:36:42.070
  • men.
  • 00:36:44.110 --> 00:36:45.100
  • I want you to lead these three
  • 00:36:45.100 --> 00:36:46.150
  • men and I want them to worship
  • 00:36:46.150 --> 00:36:48.280
  • my Son who's gonna be born in
  • 00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:51.030
  • Bethlehem.
  • 00:36:51.030 --> 00:36:52.180
  • You know he's gonna be born
  • 00:36:52.180 --> 00:36:53.170
  • there but I want you to make
  • 00:36:53.170 --> 00:36:54.160
  • sure, guide them, don't let 'em
  • 00:36:54.160 --> 00:36:56.260
  • He said, "Jewel--" If you polish
  • 00:36:57.270 --> 00:37:00.030
  • jewel, they shine.
  • 00:37:00.030 --> 00:37:01.280
  • And so, "Jewel, do this job for
  • 00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.140
  • me."
  • 00:37:03.140 --> 00:37:04.010
  • And so as you read the book,
  • 00:37:04.010 --> 00:37:04.260
  • there's a servant there and he's
  • 00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:06.250
  • always stepping up and he's got
  • 00:37:06.250 --> 00:37:08.050
  • the right answer for everything.
  • 00:37:08.050 --> 00:37:09.270
  • He knows everything because he's
  • 00:37:09.270 --> 00:37:11.000
  • God's man there.
  • 00:37:11.000 --> 00:37:12.170
  • - Leon: Now, when you
  • 00:37:12.170 --> 00:37:13.220
  • wrote--this book is written in
  • 00:37:13.220 --> 00:37:14.220
  • story form or is it more--
  • 00:37:14.220 --> 00:37:16.110
  • - Elmer: No, it's called a
  • 00:37:16.110 --> 00:37:17.120
  • historical novel.
  • 00:37:17.120 --> 00:37:18.170
  • - Leon: A novel?
  • 00:37:18.170 --> 00:37:19.120
  • - Elmer: It's a novel based on
  • 00:37:19.120 --> 00:37:20.060
  • history.
  • 00:37:20.060 --> 00:37:21.040
  • Now, we do know that the three
  • 00:37:21.040 --> 00:37:22.100
  • kings were all buried.
  • 00:37:22.140 --> 00:37:25.140
  • There Tehran--there's Tehran.
  • 00:37:25.240 --> 00:37:28.240
  • Persia, today we call it Persia,
  • 00:37:28.240 --> 00:37:30.100
  • but it's Iran.
  • 00:37:30.100 --> 00:37:31.110
  • - Leon: I didn't know that.
  • 00:37:31.110 --> 00:37:32.010
  • - Elmer: Okay.
  • 00:37:32.010 --> 00:37:32.240
  • And we knew that Marco Polo came
  • 00:37:32.240 --> 00:37:33.240
  • and he saw the three and he
  • 00:37:33.240 --> 00:37:35.150
  • wrote about 'em in 1270, yes.
  • 00:37:35.150 --> 00:37:37.230
  • - Leon: That's in there?
  • 00:37:37.230 --> 00:37:39.060
  • - Elmer: Yeah.
  • 00:37:39.060 --> 00:37:39.230
  • Mm-hm.
  • 00:37:39.230 --> 00:37:40.200
  • - Leon: I want a copy.
  • 00:37:40.200 --> 00:37:41.080
  • - Elmer: Okay, now then--I
  • 00:37:41.080 --> 00:37:42.010
  • already gave you a copy.
  • 00:37:42.010 --> 00:37:43.010
  • - Leon: Right.
  • 00:37:43.010 --> 00:37:44.050
  • - Elmer: Now, the
  • 00:37:44.050 --> 00:37:45.100
  • next-to-the-last chapter, this
  • 00:37:45.100 --> 00:37:46.280
  • is the chapter if you're gonna
  • 00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:47.290
  • read backwards.
  • 00:37:47.290 --> 00:37:49.060
  • The next-to-the-last chapter,
  • 00:37:49.060 --> 00:37:50.140
  • there's a man who comes to
  • 00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:53.100
  • Liberty University and he's
  • 00:37:53.100 --> 00:37:54.100
  • lecturing on all of the myths
  • 00:37:54.100 --> 00:37:56.020
  • and the history of the three
  • 00:37:56.020 --> 00:37:58.010
  • kings.
  • 00:37:58.010 --> 00:37:59.050
  • And look at his name very
  • 00:37:59.050 --> 00:38:00.250
  • carefully.
  • 00:38:00.250 --> 00:38:01.200
  • He's got a doctor's degree, he's
  • 00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:03.070
  • from Persia, and his name
  • 00:38:03.070 --> 00:38:05.190
  • backwards is Jewel, the angel.
  • 00:38:05.190 --> 00:38:08.010
  • - Leon: No way.
  • 00:38:08.010 --> 00:38:09.270
  • - Elmer: Yes, that's right.
  • 00:38:09.270 --> 00:38:10.230
  • He's explaining all these things
  • 00:38:10.230 --> 00:38:12.130
  • that happen.
  • 00:38:12.130 --> 00:38:13.120
  • And, of course, you know,
  • 00:38:13.120 --> 00:38:14.110
  • Catherine who's mother to
  • 00:38:14.110 --> 00:38:17.040
  • Constantine, she went and found
  • 00:38:17.040 --> 00:38:19.050
  • 'em, took their bodies, she
  • 00:38:19.050 --> 00:38:20.240
  • said, down to Constantinople,
  • 00:38:20.240 --> 00:38:23.180
  • buried them there.
  • 00:38:23.180 --> 00:38:24.240
  • Big church named after them.
  • 00:38:24.240 --> 00:38:26.130
  • And then, they were taken.
  • 00:38:26.130 --> 00:38:28.170
  • The kings were taken over to
  • 00:38:28.170 --> 00:38:29.260
  • Italy, to Milan.
  • 00:38:29.260 --> 00:38:31.150
  • Church named after them there,
  • 00:38:31.150 --> 00:38:33.030
  • Basilica.
  • 00:38:33.030 --> 00:38:34.010
  • And then Barbarossa in the 1200,
  • 00:38:34.010 --> 00:38:36.180
  • he took their bodies and took
  • 00:38:36.180 --> 00:38:38.090
  • 'em to Cologne, Germany.
  • 00:38:38.090 --> 00:38:39.250
  • So there's all kinds of myths
  • 00:38:39.250 --> 00:38:40.210
  • about--
  • 00:38:40.210 --> 00:38:41.090
  • - Leon: See, I didn't know they
  • 00:38:41.090 --> 00:38:42.010
  • moved the bodies.
  • 00:38:42.010 --> 00:38:42.160
  • Like, I've heard of the churches
  • 00:38:42.160 --> 00:38:43.120
  • where they use these names but
  • 00:38:43.120 --> 00:38:44.200
  • they actually moved the bodies,
  • 00:38:44.200 --> 00:38:45.250
  • Pastor?
  • 00:38:45.250 --> 00:38:46.140
  • - Elmer: Yes, actually moved
  • 00:38:46.140 --> 00:38:47.050
  • the bodies.
  • 00:38:47.050 --> 00:38:47.240
  • Now, they had names, all right?
  • 00:38:47.240 --> 00:38:49.080
  • Melchior was a Persian.
  • 00:38:49.080 --> 00:38:52.050
  • Gaspar, he was from Tarsus, a
  • 00:38:52.270 --> 00:38:55.270
  • kingdom pretty close to Spain.
  • 00:38:55.270 --> 00:38:58.210
  • And the third one,
  • 00:38:58.210 --> 00:39:00.060
  • he was from Ethiopia.
  • 00:39:00.100 --> 00:39:03.100
  • He was a black man, and
  • 00:39:03.100 --> 00:39:05.080
  • Balthazar was his name.
  • 00:39:05.080 --> 00:39:07.000
  • And he had a feisty spirit to
  • 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:08.230
  • them.
  • 00:39:08.230 --> 00:39:09.160
  • And they all meet in Persia.
  • 00:39:09.160 --> 00:39:12.050
  • And Melchior gets 'em together
  • 00:39:12.050 --> 00:39:14.010
  • and come to find out two of them
  • 00:39:14.010 --> 00:39:15.220
  • are slaves being sold to the
  • 00:39:15.220 --> 00:39:18.050
  • slave market.
  • 00:39:18.050 --> 00:39:19.200
  • But we do know about a magi.
  • 00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:21.200
  • A magi was supposed to have
  • 00:39:21.200 --> 00:39:22.290
  • power like a witchdoctor with
  • 00:39:22.290 --> 00:39:25.160
  • the gods but also they knew
  • 00:39:25.160 --> 00:39:26.220
  • astrology.
  • 00:39:26.220 --> 00:39:28.000
  • They knew all about the stars.
  • 00:39:28.000 --> 00:39:29.110
  • And so he walks over.
  • 00:39:29.110 --> 00:39:30.270
  • He sees these two people.
  • 00:39:30.270 --> 00:39:32.150
  • He hears them talking in Latin,
  • 00:39:32.150 --> 00:39:34.050
  • so he knows they're smart.
  • 00:39:34.050 --> 00:39:36.120
  • And then he talks to them in
  • 00:39:36.120 --> 00:39:37.210
  • Greek and they would talk back
  • 00:39:37.210 --> 00:39:38.280
  • to him in Greek.
  • 00:39:38.280 --> 00:39:39.260
  • He said, "Oh, these men are
  • 00:39:39.260 --> 00:39:40.190
  • great."
  • 00:39:40.190 --> 00:39:41.080
  • So he says to the commander,
  • 00:39:41.080 --> 00:39:42.180
  • "Release the men."
  • 00:39:42.180 --> 00:39:43.190
  • He said, "Why should I do this?"
  • 00:39:43.190 --> 00:39:44.230
  • "I'm a magi."
  • 00:39:44.230 --> 00:39:46.090
  • And so he pulls out his sword.
  • 00:39:46.090 --> 00:39:47.160
  • You think he's gonna kill but he
  • 00:39:47.160 --> 00:39:48.190
  • goes over and he released them.
  • 00:39:48.190 --> 00:39:51.050
  • So that begins with a crisis.
  • 00:39:51.240 --> 00:39:54.240
  • Deliver these men from slavery.
  • 00:39:54.240 --> 00:39:56.170
  • They are delivered from slavery
  • 00:39:56.170 --> 00:39:58.130
  • and then they go on a quest.
  • 00:39:58.130 --> 00:40:00.140
  • They go to their home, a
  • 00:40:00.140 --> 00:40:01.290
  • chantry.
  • 00:40:01.290 --> 00:40:02.230
  • A chantry was a home where wise
  • 00:40:02.230 --> 00:40:04.280
  • men, magi, stayed.
  • 00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:07.110
  • And they were on the roof and
  • 00:40:07.110 --> 00:40:09.020
  • they were looking up at the
  • 00:40:09.020 --> 00:40:10.080
  • stars.
  • 00:40:10.080 --> 00:40:11.160
  • It's on December 25 and they
  • 00:40:11.160 --> 00:40:14.070
  • look up in the sky and so he
  • 00:40:14.070 --> 00:40:16.260
  • says, "Now, on December 25, if
  • 00:40:16.260 --> 00:40:19.020
  • you look up at Orion," that's a
  • 00:40:19.020 --> 00:40:21.250
  • star they later called Christ.
  • 00:40:21.250 --> 00:40:24.000
  • And there are three belt stars.
  • 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:25.210
  • And once every year, the three
  • 00:40:25.210 --> 00:40:28.040
  • belt stars are in a perfect,
  • 00:40:28.040 --> 00:40:30.050
  • perfect line.
  • 00:40:30.050 --> 00:40:32.020
  • And he said, "Something's gonna
  • 00:40:32.020 --> 00:40:33.130
  • happen on this night."
  • 00:40:33.130 --> 00:40:35.000
  • He said, "This--something's
  • 00:40:35.000 --> 00:40:36.110
  • gonna happen."
  • 00:40:36.110 --> 00:40:37.130
  • And as they're on the roof, they
  • 00:40:37.130 --> 00:40:38.160
  • look and they see way out in the
  • 00:40:38.160 --> 00:40:39.160
  • distance, they see a star coming
  • 00:40:39.160 --> 00:40:40.210
  • out of the West.
  • 00:40:40.210 --> 00:40:41.280
  • Stars don't come out of the
  • 00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:43.140
  • West.
  • 00:40:43.140 --> 00:40:44.190
  • They like the sun, they come up
  • 00:40:44.190 --> 00:40:46.010
  • in the East and they go down in
  • 00:40:46.010 --> 00:40:47.210
  • the West.
  • 00:40:47.210 --> 00:40:48.270
  • But this star comes up in the
  • 00:40:48.270 --> 00:40:49.190
  • West.
  • 00:40:49.190 --> 00:40:50.100
  • It's over Bethlehem.
  • 00:40:50.100 --> 00:40:51.260
  • It's really not a star.
  • 00:40:51.260 --> 00:40:53.220
  • It's God coming down on the
  • 00:40:57.160 --> 00:40:58.230
  • night of the 25th of December.
  • 00:40:59.090 --> 00:41:02.110
  • And he's telling the angels,
  • 00:41:02.110 --> 00:41:03.200
  • "Unto you this day is born in
  • 00:41:03.200 --> 00:41:05.170
  • the city of David a child,
  • 00:41:05.170 --> 00:41:08.070
  • Jesus the Savior."
  • 00:41:08.070 --> 00:41:09.180
  • And they see that and they say,
  • 00:41:09.180 --> 00:41:10.200
  • "We gotta do something about
  • 00:41:10.200 --> 00:41:11.100
  • it."
  • 00:41:11.100 --> 00:41:11.290
  • Then they put together
  • 00:41:11.290 --> 00:41:12.200
  • the Scripture.
  • 00:41:12.200 --> 00:41:13.140
  • They begin to study
  • 00:41:13.140 --> 00:41:14.080
  • And so they're gonna go and they
  • 00:41:17.240 --> 00:41:19.070
  • said, "We've gotta go.
  • 00:41:19.070 --> 00:41:20.200
  • We've gotta go worship."
  • 00:41:20.200 --> 00:41:21.140
  • Every time a baby king is born,
  • 00:41:21.140 --> 00:41:22.280
  • neighboring kings must go and
  • 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:25.240
  • take him a gift.
  • 00:41:25.240 --> 00:41:27.240
  • And so they said to--Balthazar
  • 00:41:27.240 --> 00:41:29.170
  • said, "Now, my father, he was
  • 00:41:29.170 --> 00:41:30.180
  • king of his tribe in Ethiopia
  • 00:41:30.180 --> 00:41:32.120
  • and I'm a king.
  • 00:41:32.120 --> 00:41:34.180
  • I wanna worship this baby king."
  • 00:41:34.180 --> 00:41:37.070
  • Ah, Melchior, this Persian, he
  • 00:41:37.140 --> 00:41:40.140
  • said, "Twenty-seven generations
  • 00:41:40.140 --> 00:41:43.060
  • ago, my
  • 00:41:43.060 --> 00:41:44.180
  • great-great-great-great-great-
  • 00:41:44.180 --> 00:41:46.170
  • great-grandfather was king of
  • 00:41:46.170 --> 00:41:48.070
  • Persia.
  • 00:41:48.070 --> 00:41:49.260
  • After Darius was king and before
  • 00:41:49.260 --> 00:41:51.260
  • Xerxes, he was king.
  • 00:41:51.260 --> 00:41:54.020
  • He ruled for 8 months."
  • 00:41:54.020 --> 00:41:56.020
  • This is history.
  • 00:41:56.020 --> 00:41:57.010
  • Killed in his bed.
  • 00:41:57.010 --> 00:41:57.270
  • He says, "Maybe I could be king
  • 00:41:57.270 --> 00:41:59.000
  • one day."
  • 00:41:59.000 --> 00:41:59.290
  • And then the third man, Gaspar,
  • 00:41:59.290 --> 00:42:02.250
  • he said, "You know, I was the
  • 00:42:02.250 --> 00:42:04.150
  • son of a king, the son of
  • 00:42:04.150 --> 00:42:06.180
  • Tarsus."
  • 00:42:06.180 --> 00:42:08.050
  • He said, "I could have ruled in
  • 00:42:08.050 --> 00:42:09.260
  • the place of my father but my
  • 00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:11.060
  • mother died and my father
  • 00:42:11.060 --> 00:42:12.270
  • married again and she had a son
  • 00:42:12.270 --> 00:42:15.010
  • and it's my stepmother sold me
  • 00:42:15.010 --> 00:42:17.200
  • into bondage and that's why I'm
  • 00:42:17.200 --> 00:42:19.190
  • a slave today.
  • 00:42:19.190 --> 00:42:20.260
  • And so what must we do?
  • 00:42:20.260 --> 00:42:21.280
  • We all three kings.
  • 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:22.250
  • We must carry a gift."
  • 00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:24.020
  • And so Melchior goes over and he
  • 00:42:24.020 --> 00:42:26.150
  • digs a hole in the living room.
  • 00:42:26.150 --> 00:42:28.170
  • He picks up a box.
  • 00:42:28.170 --> 00:42:30.210
  • He takes out the box and there
  • 00:42:30.210 --> 00:42:32.040
  • are dusty old gold coins.
  • 00:42:32.040 --> 00:42:34.220
  • He said, "They'll shine."
  • 00:42:34.220 --> 00:42:36.070
  • He said, "These coins, these are
  • 00:42:36.070 --> 00:42:38.050
  • from my family.
  • 00:42:38.050 --> 00:42:39.290
  • This is proof that I'm to be
  • 00:42:39.290 --> 00:42:41.270
  • king one day.
  • 00:42:41.270 --> 00:42:43.150
  • I'm gonna give this to the baby
  • 00:42:43.150 --> 00:42:45.070
  • king.
  • 00:42:45.070 --> 00:42:46.150
  • The greatest thing, the most
  • 00:42:46.150 --> 00:42:47.150
  • precious thing in life, I'm
  • 00:42:47.150 --> 00:42:48.170
  • gonna give to the baby king."
  • 00:42:48.170 --> 00:42:50.110
  • And oh, the black man said,
  • 00:42:50.260 --> 00:42:53.260
  • "Oh."
  • 00:42:53.260 --> 00:42:54.190
  • He goes out and he brings in
  • 00:42:54.190 --> 00:42:55.210
  • some frankincense.
  • 00:42:55.210 --> 00:42:57.140
  • He said, "He's gonna be a
  • 00:42:57.140 --> 00:42:58.120
  • priest, a king priest.
  • 00:42:58.120 --> 00:43:00.100
  • And he must have frankincense to
  • 00:43:00.100 --> 00:43:01.260
  • burn in his kingdom, burn in his
  • 00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:04.010
  • house, burn in his temple.
  • 00:43:04.010 --> 00:43:05.200
  • And I'm gonna bring
  • 00:43:05.200 --> 00:43:06.140
  • frankincense."
  • 00:43:06.140 --> 00:43:07.070
  • Here.
  • 00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:08.000
  • - Leon: Keep going, keep going.
  • 00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:09.130
  • - Elmer: I almost dropped it,
  • 00:43:09.130 --> 00:43:11.160
  • folks.
  • 00:43:11.160 --> 00:43:12.100
  • I almost dropped it.
  • 00:43:12.100 --> 00:43:13.060
  • - Leon: I'm listening to you
  • 00:43:13.060 --> 00:43:15.040
  • talking.
  • 00:43:15.040 --> 00:43:15.240
  • I go, "Okay, I wanna make sure I
  • 00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:16.200
  • have a copy, but--" so this--
  • 00:43:17.090 --> 00:43:20.090
  • - Elmer: But I almost dropped
  • 00:43:20.090 --> 00:43:21.000
  • it.
  • 00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:21.170
  • You caught it.
  • 00:43:21.170 --> 00:43:22.130
  • That would have been
  • 00:43:22.130 --> 00:43:23.000
  • bad, to drop it on television.
  • 00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:23.220
  • - Leon: You know what's
  • 00:43:23.220 --> 00:43:24.120
  • beautiful about a book like this
  • 00:43:24.120 --> 00:43:25.160
  • is that all of the
  • 00:43:25.160 --> 00:43:26.160
  • research--'cause sometimes,
  • 00:43:26.160 --> 00:43:28.020
  • reading a book that's just
  • 00:43:28.020 --> 00:43:29.100
  • research can be hard but when
  • 00:43:29.100 --> 00:43:30.210
  • it's in a story like this.
  • 00:43:30.210 --> 00:43:32.040
  • - Elmer: The story is go find
  • 00:43:32.040 --> 00:43:32.260
  • the king and worship him.
  • 00:43:32.260 --> 00:43:35.020
  • - Leon: Which we all need to
  • 00:43:35.020 --> 00:43:36.030
  • do.
  • 00:43:36.030 --> 00:43:37.070
  • - Elmer: Go find the king
  • 00:43:37.070 --> 00:43:38.090
  • and worship him.
  • 00:43:38.090 --> 00:43:39.060
  • Now, let me tell you.
  • 00:43:39.060 --> 00:43:40.240
  • As they begin their journey to
  • 00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:42.070
  • search for the king, all of a
  • 00:43:42.070 --> 00:43:44.210
  • sudden as they get to the edge
  • 00:43:44.210 --> 00:43:46.000
  • of Persia, the king says, "Come,
  • 00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:47.290
  • Melchior.
  • 00:43:47.290 --> 00:43:49.110
  • Be my counsel and when I die,
  • 00:43:49.110 --> 00:43:50.170
  • you could be the next king."
  • 00:43:50.170 --> 00:43:51.210
  • He has to make a choice, "Am I
  • 00:43:51.210 --> 00:43:52.290
  • gonna go back?
  • 00:43:52.290 --> 00:43:53.270
  • Is it pride?
  • 00:43:53.270 --> 00:43:55.200
  • Or do I go worship the baby?"
  • 00:43:55.200 --> 00:43:57.210
  • He turns it down to go and
  • 00:43:57.210 --> 00:43:58.140
  • worship the baby king.
  • 00:43:58.140 --> 00:43:59.170
  • They get halfway there to
  • 00:43:59.170 --> 00:44:01.040
  • Damascus and they see a band of
  • 00:44:01.040 --> 00:44:02.250
  • immigrants from Ethiopia, all
  • 00:44:03.080 --> 00:44:06.080
  • black people.
  • 00:44:06.080 --> 00:44:07.200
  • And a black woman captures his
  • 00:44:07.200 --> 00:44:09.130
  • heart.
  • 00:44:09.130 --> 00:44:10.080
  • "Come, marry me.
  • 00:44:10.080 --> 00:44:11.130
  • All of 'em, we'll go back, we'll
  • 00:44:11.130 --> 00:44:12.160
  • have a revolution.
  • 00:44:12.170 --> 00:44:15.170
  • We'll make you king."
  • 00:44:15.170 --> 00:44:16.250
  • He has to choose.
  • 00:44:16.250 --> 00:44:17.180
  • Am I gonna go worship the baby
  • 00:44:17.180 --> 00:44:18.130
  • king?
  • 00:44:18.130 --> 00:44:19.100
  • Am I gonna go give to--what my
  • 00:44:19.100 --> 00:44:20.210
  • love wants me to do?
  • 00:44:20.210 --> 00:44:23.000
  • He gets almost there and Gaspar,
  • 00:44:23.140 --> 00:44:26.140
  • he's a European.
  • 00:44:26.140 --> 00:44:28.110
  • He runs into a European, very
  • 00:44:28.110 --> 00:44:30.020
  • wealthy.
  • 00:44:30.020 --> 00:44:31.010
  • He says, "Come, living with me.
  • 00:44:31.010 --> 00:44:33.020
  • You can have all my money.
  • 00:44:33.020 --> 00:44:34.040
  • They all--" Lust of the flesh,
  • 00:44:34.040 --> 00:44:36.040
  • lust of the eyes, and pride of
  • 00:44:36.040 --> 00:44:36.280
  • life.
  • 00:44:36.280 --> 00:44:37.250
  • We are all tempted when we go to
  • 00:44:37.250 --> 00:44:39.220
  • worship the king.
  • 00:44:39.220 --> 00:44:40.240
  • - Leon: That's true.
  • 00:44:40.240 --> 00:44:41.150
  • - Elmer: And so all three are
  • 00:44:41.150 --> 00:44:42.090
  • tempted.
  • 00:44:42.090 --> 00:44:42.270
  • They all had to turn it down.
  • 00:44:42.270 --> 00:44:43.270
  • And they end up--now--
  • 00:44:49.180 --> 00:44:52.180
  • The last line of the book.
  • 00:44:52.180 --> 00:44:53.210
  • You've gotta have the last line
  • 00:44:53.210 --> 00:44:54.180
  • of the book, okay.
  • 00:44:54.180 --> 00:44:55.230
  • "They worshiped the baby and
  • 00:44:55.230 --> 00:44:58.200
  • thereafter they served him.
  • 00:44:58.200 --> 00:45:00.080
  • And in that worship, they found
  • 00:45:00.090 --> 00:45:03.090
  • that they acquired the kingly
  • 00:45:03.090 --> 00:45:06.010
  • qualities of that king and
  • 00:45:06.010 --> 00:45:08.100
  • therefore, that's why we should
  • 00:45:08.100 --> 00:45:10.060
  • call them kings today."
  • 00:45:10.060 --> 00:45:11.280
  • - Leon: Wow.
  • 00:45:11.280 --> 00:45:13.020
  • - Elmer: So that is the last
  • 00:45:13.020 --> 00:45:13.280
  • line of the book.
  • 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:14.200
  • - Leon: That is so good.
  • 00:45:14.200 --> 00:45:15.110
  • Thank you for being with me
  • 00:45:15.110 --> 00:45:16.010
  • today.
  • 00:45:16.010 --> 00:45:16.200
  • Isn't it awesome, our time is
  • 00:45:16.200 --> 00:45:17.140
  • already up.
  • 00:45:17.140 --> 00:45:18.170
  • - Elmer: Oh, is it up?
  • 00:45:18.170 --> 00:45:19.120
  • Okay.
  • 00:45:19.120 --> 00:45:20.140
  • - Leon: But I wanna encourage
  • 00:45:20.140 --> 00:45:21.190
  • everyone out there.
  • 00:45:21.190 --> 00:45:22.250
  • This book, "Three Searching
  • 00:45:23.010 --> 00:45:26.010
  • Kings."
  • 00:45:26.010 --> 00:45:27.040
  • You might think it's a Christmas
  • 00:45:27.040 --> 00:45:28.040
  • story but actually it's not.
  • 00:45:28.040 --> 00:45:30.040
  • It'll change your life as you go
  • 00:45:30.040 --> 00:45:31.210
  • search for the king in your own
  • 00:45:31.210 --> 00:45:33.080
  • life.
  • 00:45:33.080 --> 00:45:34.040
  • Thank you so much for being with
  • 00:45:34.040 --> 00:45:35.070
  • us, Dr. Towns.
  • 00:45:35.070 --> 00:45:35.260
  • - Elmer: Thank you.
  • 00:45:35.260 --> 00:45:37.040
  • - Leon: Man, wasn't he great?
  • 00:45:37.040 --> 00:45:38.120
  • That was awesome.
  • 00:45:38.120 --> 00:45:40.260
  • Wow.
  • 00:45:40.260 --> 00:45:43.030
  • Okay, Onaje Jefferson and "Good,
  • 00:45:43.030 --> 00:45:46.020
  • Good Father."
  • 00:45:46.020 --> 00:45:47.060
  • They think you're like but
  • 00:46:08.060 --> 00:46:11.060
  • I hear the tender whisper of
  • 00:46:12.220 --> 00:46:15.220
  • love in the dead of night
  • 00:46:16.210 --> 00:46:19.210
  • you're pleased and that
  • 00:46:23.100 --> 00:46:24.230
  • I'm never alone.
  • 00:46:27.040 --> 00:46:30.040
  • You're a good, good Father.
  • 00:46:30.060 --> 00:46:33.060
  • It's who you are.
  • 00:46:33.060 --> 00:46:35.060
  • It's who you are.
  • 00:46:35.060 --> 00:46:37.180
  • It's who you are and
  • 00:46:37.180 --> 00:46:39.250
  • I'm loved by you.
  • 00:46:39.250 --> 00:46:42.100
  • It's who I am.
  • 00:46:42.100 --> 00:46:44.180
  • It's who I am.
  • 00:46:44.180 --> 00:46:46.270
  • It's who I am.
  • 00:46:46.270 --> 00:46:49.110
  • Oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:46:49.110 --> 00:46:51.050
  • Oh-oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:46:51.110 --> 00:46:54.110
  • You're a good, good Father.
  • 00:46:54.110 --> 00:46:56.130
  • Yeah.
  • 00:46:57.150 --> 00:47:00.170
  • And I've seen many searching
  • 00:47:01.130 --> 00:47:04.130
  • for answers far and wide.
  • 00:47:05.210 --> 00:47:08.210
  • Oh, but I know we're all
  • 00:47:09.040 --> 00:47:12.040
  • searching for answers only
  • 00:47:12.170 --> 00:47:15.170
  • you can provide 'cause you
  • 00:47:15.170 --> 00:47:18.060
  • know just what we need
  • 00:47:19.280 --> 00:47:22.280
  • before we say a word.
  • 00:47:23.240 --> 00:47:26.240
  • You're a good, good Father.
  • 00:47:26.240 --> 00:47:29.090
  • Yeah.
  • 00:47:29.090 --> 00:47:29.270
  • It's who you are.
  • 00:47:29.270 --> 00:47:31.120
  • We know that
  • 00:47:31.120 --> 00:47:32.020
  • you're like.
  • 00:47:32.020 --> 00:47:32.230
  • It's who he is.
  • 00:47:32.230 --> 00:47:33.210
  • He's a good Father.
  • 00:47:33.210 --> 00:47:34.220
  • It's who you are.
  • 00:47:34.220 --> 00:47:36.060
  • And I'm loved by you.
  • 00:47:36.060 --> 00:47:38.220
  • It's who I am.
  • 00:47:38.220 --> 00:47:40.170
  • Yeah, it's who I am.
  • 00:47:40.170 --> 00:47:42.140
  • It's who I am.
  • 00:47:42.140 --> 00:47:45.090
  • Oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:47:45.090 --> 00:47:46.150
  • Good, good Father.
  • 00:47:46.150 --> 00:47:48.050
  • Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:47:48.050 --> 00:47:50.050
  • Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh.
  • 00:47:50.050 --> 00:47:52.100
  • Loved by you.
  • 00:47:52.100 --> 00:47:54.170
  • This is my favorite part.
  • 00:47:54.170 --> 00:47:55.160
  • Says, you are perfect
  • 00:47:55.160 --> 00:47:57.120
  • in all of your ways.
  • 00:47:57.180 --> 00:48:00.200
  • You are perfect in all of
  • 00:48:00.200 --> 00:48:03.080
  • your ways.
  • 00:48:03.080 --> 00:48:05.090
  • You are perfect in all of
  • 00:48:05.090 --> 00:48:07.250
  • your ways to us.
  • 00:48:08.070 --> 00:48:11.070
  • Has he been good
  • 00:48:11.070 --> 00:48:12.130
  • to you, TBN?
  • 00:48:12.130 --> 00:48:13.290
  • Give a shout.
  • 00:48:13.290 --> 00:48:15.040
  • You are perfect
  • 00:48:15.040 --> 00:48:16.130
  • in all of your ways.
  • 00:48:16.130 --> 00:48:19.000
  • It's who you are.
  • 00:48:19.000 --> 00:48:20.090
  • Perfect in all of your ways
  • 00:48:20.090 --> 00:48:22.160
  • and I'm loved by you.
  • 00:48:23.220 --> 00:48:26.220
  • It's who I am.
  • 00:48:26.220 --> 00:48:28.030
  • It's who I am.
  • 00:48:28.030 --> 00:48:30.150
  • Oh-oh-oh, oh-oh-oh,
  • 00:48:30.150 --> 00:48:32.250
  • you're perfect.
  • 00:48:32.250 --> 00:48:33.270
  • You are perfect
  • 00:48:33.270 --> 00:48:35.000
  • in all of your ways.
  • 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:37.150
  • Yeah, you are perfect
  • 00:48:37.150 --> 00:48:39.160
  • in all of your ways.
  • 00:48:39.190 --> 00:48:42.190
  • You are perfect
  • 00:48:42.190 --> 00:48:44.080
  • in all of your ways to us.
  • 00:48:46.290 --> 00:48:49.290
  • Yes, you're perfect.
  • 00:48:49.290 --> 00:48:51.010
  • You are.
  • 00:48:51.010 --> 00:48:52.040
  • You are perfect in
  • 00:48:52.040 --> 00:48:54.100
  • all of your ways.
  • 00:48:54.100 --> 00:48:56.070
  • You are perfect in
  • 00:48:56.070 --> 00:48:58.180
  • all of your ways.
  • 00:48:58.220 --> 00:49:01.240
  • You are perfect
  • 00:49:01.240 --> 00:49:03.150
  • in all of your ways to us.
  • 00:49:06.060 --> 00:49:09.060
  • Whoa-oh.
  • 00:49:09.060 --> 00:49:10.120
  • You're a perfect Father.
  • 00:49:10.120 --> 00:49:13.070
  • It's who you are.
  • 00:49:13.070 --> 00:49:15.110
  • It's who you are.
  • 00:49:15.110 --> 00:49:17.110
  • - Leon: Onaje, c'mon, wow!
  • 00:49:32.000 --> 00:49:35.000
  • Makes you wanna just get another
  • 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:37.170
  • song and another song and just
  • 00:49:37.170 --> 00:49:38.200
  • keep going and worshiping and so
  • 00:49:38.200 --> 00:49:40.140
  • good.
  • 00:49:40.140 --> 00:49:41.160
  • Tim Lucas.
  • 00:49:44.080 --> 00:49:45.210
  • He's the lead pastor
  • 00:49:45.210 --> 00:49:46.210
  • at Liquid Church.
  • 00:49:46.210 --> 00:49:47.280
  • Pastor, speaker,
  • 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:49.010
  • founder of the Liquid Church,
  • 00:49:49.010 --> 00:49:50.050
  • one of the fastest growing
  • 00:49:50.050 --> 00:49:51.180
  • Liquid Church's innovative
  • 00:49:54.010 --> 00:49:55.040
  • approaches to outreach have been
  • 00:49:55.040 --> 00:49:57.190
  • spotlighted by CNN, "New York
  • 00:49:57.190 --> 00:49:59.140
  • Times," and he's the author of
  • 00:49:59.140 --> 00:50:01.150
  • "You Married the Wrong Person."
  • 00:50:02.140 --> 00:50:05.140
  • Give him a hand, Tim Lucas,
  • 00:50:05.140 --> 00:50:06.180
  • as he comes.
  • 00:50:06.180 --> 00:50:08.000
  • Hey, Tim.
  • 00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:09.190
  • - Tim Lucas: How you doing,
  • 00:50:09.190 --> 00:50:10.170
  • my man?
  • 00:50:10.170 --> 00:50:11.280
  • - Leon: Good to have you.
  • 00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:12.230
  • - Tim: Thank you very much.
  • 00:50:12.230 --> 00:50:13.170
  • Glad to see you.
  • 00:50:15.220 --> 00:50:18.220
  • - Leon: I don't know
  • 00:50:18.220 --> 00:50:19.160
  • if I should point
  • 00:50:19.160 --> 00:50:20.140
  • out your wife in the crowd
  • 00:50:20.140 --> 00:50:21.160
  • 'cause she's here, after I read
  • 00:50:21.160 --> 00:50:22.230
  • the title.
  • 00:50:22.230 --> 00:50:23.270
  • - Tim: Yeah, "You Married the
  • 00:50:23.270 --> 00:50:24.180
  • Wrong Person."
  • 00:50:24.180 --> 00:50:25.030
  • She wrote the book.
  • 00:50:25.030 --> 00:50:26.040
  • All right?
  • 00:50:26.040 --> 00:50:26.190
  • We'll just clarify it.
  • 00:50:26.190 --> 00:50:27.250
  • Clarify.
  • 00:50:27.250 --> 00:50:29.040
  • Great to be here with you, Leon.
  • 00:50:29.040 --> 00:50:30.230
  • - Leon: It is great to have you
  • 00:50:30.230 --> 00:50:31.150
  • with me.
  • 00:50:31.150 --> 00:50:31.280
  • - Tim: Yeah, thank you so much.
  • 00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:32.210
  • - Leon: You are an innovative
  • 00:50:32.210 --> 00:50:33.260
  • pastor.
  • 00:50:33.260 --> 00:50:34.180
  • You love being contemporary but
  • 00:50:34.180 --> 00:50:36.050
  • not losing the power of God.
  • 00:50:36.050 --> 00:50:38.190
  • - Tim: Absolutely, absolutely.
  • 00:50:38.190 --> 00:50:39.230
  • - Leon: They both can go
  • 00:50:39.230 --> 00:50:40.180
  • together.
  • 00:50:40.180 --> 00:50:41.030
  • - Tim: God is still speaking
  • 00:50:41.030 --> 00:50:41.240
  • today.
  • 00:50:41.240 --> 00:50:42.170
  • It's a question of are we
  • 00:50:42.170 --> 00:50:43.080
  • listening?
  • 00:50:43.080 --> 00:50:44.020
  • - Leon: Yeah.
  • 00:50:44.020 --> 00:50:44.230
  • - Tim: Right?
  • 00:50:44.230 --> 00:50:45.150
  • - Leon: It's true.
  • 00:50:45.150 --> 00:50:46.040
  • Now, why did you write this
  • 00:50:46.040 --> 00:50:46.240
  • book?
  • 00:50:46.240 --> 00:50:48.010
  • "You've Married the Wrong
  • 00:50:48.010 --> 00:50:49.020
  • Person."
  • 00:50:49.020 --> 00:50:50.080
  • - Tim: Well,
  • 00:50:50.080 --> 00:50:50.270
  • you know, probably, like
  • 00:50:50.270 --> 00:50:51.190
  • you, as a pastor, I perform, you
  • 00:50:51.190 --> 00:50:53.080
  • know, dozens of weddings every
  • 00:50:53.080 --> 00:50:54.200
  • year and I always notice that
  • 00:50:54.200 --> 00:50:56.130
  • whenever the bride makes her
  • 00:50:56.130 --> 00:50:57.050
  • three things.
  • 00:50:59.130 --> 00:51:00.140
  • She sees the aisle in which
  • 00:51:00.140 --> 00:51:02.000
  • she's gonna make her grand
  • 00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:02.200
  • entrance.
  • 00:51:02.200 --> 00:51:03.190
  • She sees the altar where her
  • 00:51:03.190 --> 00:51:05.060
  • family and friends are gathered
  • 00:51:05.060 --> 00:51:05.280
  • before God.
  • 00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:06.280
  • And then she sees him, the man
  • 00:51:06.280 --> 00:51:08.160
  • of her dreams.
  • 00:51:08.160 --> 00:51:09.160
  • She's going to devote her life.
  • 00:51:09.160 --> 00:51:10.110
  • Aisle, altar, him.
  • 00:51:11.180 --> 00:51:12.280
  • Aisle, altar, him.
  • 00:51:12.280 --> 00:51:13.250
  • And from that moment on, that
  • 00:51:13.250 --> 00:51:15.010
  • becomes her life's mission,
  • 00:51:15.010 --> 00:51:17.090
  • "I'll alter him.
  • 00:51:17.090 --> 00:51:18.150
  • I'm gonna change something about
  • 00:51:18.150 --> 00:51:19.200
  • this guy."
  • 00:51:19.200 --> 00:51:20.180
  • Let's be honest, right?
  • 00:51:20.180 --> 00:51:21.240
  • I've been married 18 years and
  • 00:51:21.240 --> 00:51:23.230
  • how long have you and Sally been
  • 00:51:23.230 --> 00:51:24.250
  • married?
  • 00:51:24.250 --> 00:51:25.130
  • - Leon: Thirty-one.
  • 00:51:25.130 --> 00:51:26.030
  • - Tim: Congratulations.
  • 00:51:26.030 --> 00:51:27.030
  • That's a huge achievement,
  • 00:51:27.030 --> 00:51:28.040
  • though.
  • 00:51:28.040 --> 00:51:28.250
  • That's--praise God for that.
  • 00:51:28.250 --> 00:51:29.180
  • That's incredible.
  • 00:51:29.180 --> 00:51:30.110
  • It really is.
  • 00:51:30.110 --> 00:51:31.150
  • It's a rare thing in this world.
  • 00:51:31.150 --> 00:51:32.270
  • And I think if we're honest, any
  • 00:51:32.270 --> 00:51:35.110
  • couple who's been married, you
  • 00:51:35.110 --> 00:51:37.100
  • know, more than 5 years has to
  • 00:51:37.100 --> 00:51:38.120
  • admit there's a moment where
  • 00:51:38.120 --> 00:51:39.180
  • their head hits the pillow and
  • 00:51:39.180 --> 00:51:41.040
  • they wonder, "Maybe I married
  • 00:51:41.040 --> 00:51:42.150
  • the wrong person."
  • 00:51:42.150 --> 00:51:43.290
  • You know, he's too talkative,
  • 00:51:43.290 --> 00:51:45.150
  • she's too touchy, high
  • 00:51:45.150 --> 00:51:46.190
  • maintenance, whatever the
  • 00:51:46.190 --> 00:51:47.140
  • complaint is.
  • 00:51:47.140 --> 00:51:48.150
  • And I think as Christians
  • 00:51:48.150 --> 00:51:50.070
  • sometimes, we idealize marriage.
  • 00:51:50.070 --> 00:51:53.050
  • But the truth is, whatever we
  • 00:51:53.050 --> 00:51:54.110
  • idealize we eventually idolize
  • 00:51:54.110 --> 00:51:57.030
  • and when that person can't be
  • 00:51:57.030 --> 00:51:58.070
  • Jesus for us, we demonize them.
  • 00:51:58.070 --> 00:52:00.140
  • - Leon: Ooh, very true.
  • 00:52:00.140 --> 00:52:02.050
  • Well said.
  • 00:52:02.050 --> 00:52:03.160
  • You know, everyone has
  • 00:52:03.160 --> 00:52:04.110
  • this dream on the inside that
  • 00:52:04.110 --> 00:52:06.120
  • they've nurtured through movies,
  • 00:52:06.120 --> 00:52:08.140
  • Harlequin romance, porn,
  • 00:52:08.140 --> 00:52:10.200
  • whatever it is they've been
  • 00:52:10.200 --> 00:52:11.210
  • getting it from.
  • 00:52:11.210 --> 00:52:12.180
  • And then they superimpose this
  • 00:52:12.180 --> 00:52:14.100
  • dream onto a person.
  • 00:52:14.100 --> 00:52:17.020
  • And when that person does not
  • 00:52:17.020 --> 00:52:18.190
  • fulfill that, it just crashes.
  • 00:52:19.070 --> 00:52:22.070
  • What an awful way to live with
  • 00:52:22.070 --> 00:52:23.210
  • someone, though, because you
  • 00:52:23.210 --> 00:52:24.230
  • just can't be that thing.
  • 00:52:24.230 --> 00:52:26.050
  • - Tim: I had a single gentleman
  • 00:52:26.050 --> 00:52:27.030
  • in our church, in his 30s, works
  • 00:52:27.030 --> 00:52:28.240
  • in Manhattan, successful guy.
  • 00:52:28.240 --> 00:52:31.080
  • And he came to me all
  • 00:52:31.080 --> 00:52:32.090
  • frustrated.
  • 00:52:32.090 --> 00:52:33.010
  • He said, "Pastor Tim, I just
  • 00:52:33.010 --> 00:52:33.270
  • can't find a good Christian
  • 00:52:33.270 --> 00:52:35.090
  • woman at church."
  • 00:52:35.090 --> 00:52:36.080
  • Got 4.000 people in the church,
  • 00:52:36.080 --> 00:52:37.150
  • right?
  • 00:52:37.150 --> 00:52:38.050
  • "I can't possibly--" So, you
  • 00:52:38.050 --> 00:52:39.190
  • know, I said, "Okay, Jim, you
  • 00:52:39.190 --> 00:52:40.210
  • know, what are you looking for?"
  • 00:52:40.210 --> 00:52:41.240
  • And he said, "Well, you know,
  • 00:52:41.240 --> 00:52:43.000
  • I'm pretty tall so she should be
  • 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:44.140
  • at least, you know, 5'10", you
  • 00:52:44.140 --> 00:52:45.290
  • know, blond hair, you know, big
  • 00:52:45.290 --> 00:52:47.140
  • eyes and I hope that she likes,
  • 00:52:48.280 --> 00:52:51.280
  • you know, my sports teams and
  • 00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:54.040
  • wants to go kayaking in
  • 00:52:54.040 --> 00:52:55.010
  • Costa Rica.
  • 00:52:55.010 --> 00:52:55.270
  • I love to do that."
  • 00:52:55.270 --> 00:52:56.180
  • And I just kinda gave him this
  • 00:52:56.180 --> 00:52:57.290
  • look, you know, where it's,
  • 00:52:57.290 --> 00:52:59.230
  • like, I'll give you the right
  • 00:52:59.230 --> 00:53:00.210
  • foot of fellowship, kind of, you
  • 00:53:00.210 --> 00:53:01.160
  • know, out of
  • 00:53:01.160 --> 00:53:02.210
  • out of church, right?
  • 00:53:02.210 --> 00:53:03.290
  • And I think he caught himself.
  • 00:53:03.290 --> 00:53:05.040
  • He realized how superficial he
  • 00:53:05.040 --> 00:53:06.000
  • sounded, as he said, "Well, of
  • 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:07.200
  • course, she should love the Lord
  • 00:53:07.200 --> 00:53:08.250
  • too."
  • 00:53:08.250 --> 00:53:09.250
  • I said, "So let me get this
  • 00:53:09.250 --> 00:53:10.150
  • straight.
  • 00:53:10.150 --> 00:53:11.010
  • You're basically looking for a
  • 00:53:11.010 --> 00:53:11.250
  • Victoria's Secret model who
  • 00:53:11.250 --> 00:53:13.020
  • loves Jesus, right?"
  • 00:53:13.020 --> 00:53:14.230
  • - Leon: Yeah, yeah.
  • 00:53:14.230 --> 00:53:15.160
  • - Tim: Pretty much.
  • 00:53:15.160 --> 00:53:16.110
  • Pretty much.
  • 00:53:16.110 --> 00:53:17.130
  • And I think that's what's caught
  • 00:53:17.130 --> 00:53:18.180
  • the next generation in a
  • 00:53:18.180 --> 00:53:19.280
  • quandary.
  • 00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:20.260
  • You know, it's the millennials
  • 00:53:20.260 --> 00:53:21.270
  • who are--they're marrying at a
  • 00:53:21.270 --> 00:53:23.130
  • much later age, if at all.
  • 00:53:23.130 --> 00:53:25.130
  • The national average now is 28,
  • 00:53:25.130 --> 00:53:27.220
  • 29.
  • 00:53:27.220 --> 00:53:28.160
  • This is the first year in the
  • 00:53:28.160 --> 00:53:29.190
  • history of our nation that the
  • 00:53:29.190 --> 00:53:31.250
  • majority of the adult population
  • 00:53:31.250 --> 00:53:32.260
  • will--18 and older, will be
  • 00:53:32.260 --> 00:53:34.200
  • single.
  • 00:53:34.200 --> 00:53:35.280
  • First time ever.
  • 00:53:35.280 --> 00:53:37.000
  • Tectonic shifts happening.
  • 00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:38.130
  • And so, as a church, that's a
  • 00:53:38.130 --> 00:53:39.270
  • massive challenge to us as we
  • 00:53:39.270 --> 00:53:41.150
  • elevate marriage, which is a
  • 00:53:41.150 --> 00:53:42.200
  • symbol of the gospel.
  • 00:53:42.200 --> 00:53:44.040
  • - Leon: So do you tell married
  • 00:53:44.040 --> 00:53:45.020
  • people this?
  • 00:53:45.020 --> 00:53:46.080
  • - Tim: You married the wrong
  • 00:53:46.080 --> 00:53:48.000
  • person?
  • 00:53:48.000 --> 00:53:48.180
  • Yes!
  • 00:53:48.180 --> 00:53:49.060
  • Yes, and this is the good news.
  • 00:53:49.060 --> 00:53:50.240
  • - Leon: How many divorces have
  • 00:53:50.240 --> 00:53:51.160
  • you caused?
  • 00:53:51.160 --> 00:53:52.250
  • - Tim: Well,
  • 00:53:52.250 --> 00:53:53.160
  • this is the good news of
  • 00:53:53.160 --> 00:53:54.240
  • the gospel.
  • 00:53:54.240 --> 00:53:56.020
  • If we just acknowledge--see,
  • 00:53:56.020 --> 00:53:57.090
  • according to the Bible, there is
  • 00:53:57.090 --> 00:53:58.240
  • only, you know, there's just one
  • 00:53:58.240 --> 00:54:00.070
  • problem with marriage.
  • 00:54:00.070 --> 00:54:01.050
  • It always involves two sinners,
  • 00:54:01.050 --> 00:54:02.240
  • right?
  • 00:54:02.240 --> 00:54:03.240
  • main sanctification tool.
  • 00:54:05.260 --> 00:54:06.250
  • Fancy word, just means he's
  • 00:54:06.250 --> 00:54:07.250
  • gonna sand off the edges of us.
  • 00:54:07.250 --> 00:54:09.100
  • The last leaves of selfishness
  • 00:54:09.100 --> 00:54:11.070
  • and pride get torn off.
  • 00:54:11.070 --> 00:54:12.200
  • That's what--that's our story.
  • 00:54:12.200 --> 00:54:13.290
  • That's what happened with
  • 00:54:13.290 --> 00:54:14.200
  • Colleen and I.
  • 00:54:14.200 --> 00:54:15.220
  • - Leon: Now, when you look at
  • 00:54:15.220 --> 00:54:16.140
  • one that wrote the book so just
  • 00:54:19.030 --> 00:54:20.040
  • jump in anywhere but it's almost
  • 00:54:20.040 --> 00:54:22.030
  • as though you are attracted to
  • 00:54:22.030 --> 00:54:25.020
  • the very thing that will help
  • 00:54:25.020 --> 00:54:27.020
  • you become--help you be what you
  • 00:54:28.100 --> 00:54:31.100
  • need to be, otherwise you're
  • 00:54:31.100 --> 00:54:32.190
  • going just marry yourself.
  • 00:54:32.190 --> 00:54:34.020
  • - Tim: Ha, ha, pretty much!
  • 00:54:34.020 --> 00:54:35.250
  • - Leon: Pretty much, you know?
  • 00:54:35.250 --> 00:54:37.030
  • - Tim: Pretty much, yeah, I
  • 00:54:37.030 --> 00:54:37.250
  • think so.
  • 00:54:37.250 --> 00:54:38.150
  • - Leon: And that's--they say
  • 00:54:38.150 --> 00:54:39.110
  • opposites attract but even when
  • 00:54:39.110 --> 00:54:40.030
  • you do fall in love with
  • 00:54:40.030 --> 00:54:41.020
  • somebody and you don't really
  • 00:54:41.020 --> 00:54:42.000
  • know them, I mean, I met Sally
  • 00:54:42.000 --> 00:54:44.140
  • and I mean, I chased her and
  • 00:54:44.140 --> 00:54:46.140
  • chased her until she caught me.
  • 00:54:46.140 --> 00:54:49.120
  • And then, you know, as
  • 00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:51.160
  • we--but now as I look back over
  • 00:54:51.160 --> 00:54:52.190
  • 31 years, there is no way I
  • 00:54:52.190 --> 00:54:54.200
  • could be or do what I'm doing
  • 00:54:54.200 --> 00:54:57.060
  • today if it wasn't for the
  • 00:54:57.060 --> 00:54:59.070
  • things we walked through, talked
  • 00:54:59.070 --> 00:55:01.100
  • through, cried through, prayed
  • 00:55:01.100 --> 00:55:03.180
  • through, and something changed
  • 00:55:03.180 --> 00:55:06.040
  • in me for the good.
  • 00:55:06.040 --> 00:55:07.210
  • - Tim: Absolutely.
  • 00:55:07.210 --> 00:55:08.170
  • And you've the experience of 31
  • 00:55:08.170 --> 00:55:10.010
  • years, walking with the Lord and
  • 00:55:10.010 --> 00:55:11.190
  • you've had to draw on Jesus, I'm
  • 00:55:11.190 --> 00:55:12.250
  • sure, in a deeper way.
  • 00:55:12.250 --> 00:55:13.290
  • - Leon: Totally.
  • 00:55:13.290 --> 00:55:14.200
  • - Tim: Because is it okay to
  • 00:55:14.200 --> 00:55:16.030
  • say that actually we have needs,
  • 00:55:16.030 --> 00:55:17.240
  • both men and women, that our
  • 00:55:17.240 --> 00:55:19.070
  • spouses were never designed to
  • 00:55:19.070 --> 00:55:21.060
  • meet.
  • 00:55:21.060 --> 00:55:22.010
  • - Leon: So you can't say, "You
  • 00:55:22.010 --> 00:55:23.000
  • complete me"?
  • 00:55:23.000 --> 00:55:23.260
  • - Tim: Well, that's it.
  • 00:55:23.260 --> 00:55:25.030
  • Remember Jerry Maguire, that
  • 00:55:25.030 --> 00:55:25.290
  • movie, right?
  • 00:55:25.290 --> 00:55:26.240
  • Looks into--Tom Cruise sees
  • 00:55:26.240 --> 00:55:28.040
  • Renée Zellweger and she says,
  • 00:55:28.040 --> 00:55:29.280
  • "You complete me."
  • 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:31.060
  • Oh, it's a bunch of, you know.
  • 00:55:31.060 --> 00:55:33.010
  • This is TBN.
  • 00:55:33.010 --> 00:55:34.090
  • I wanna be careful here, I wanna
  • 00:55:34.090 --> 00:55:35.050
  • be careful here.
  • 00:55:35.050 --> 00:55:36.000
  • I just--
  • 00:55:36.000 --> 00:55:37.070
  • - Leon: Baloney.
  • 00:55:37.070 --> 00:55:37.270
  • - Tim: Yeah, baloney.
  • 00:55:37.270 --> 00:55:38.190
  • But I think that's what a lot of
  • 00:55:38.190 --> 00:55:39.170
  • people think that there's one
  • 00:55:39.170 --> 00:55:40.180
  • perfect person out there.
  • 00:55:40.180 --> 00:55:42.280
  • But if you acknowledge that
  • 00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:44.220
  • actually there's a number of
  • 00:55:44.220 --> 00:55:45.230
  • people that God can use and I
  • 00:55:45.230 --> 00:55:47.010
  • know that's controversial.
  • 00:55:47.010 --> 00:55:48.000
  • You know, a lot of people say,
  • 00:55:48.000 --> 00:55:48.210
  • "Well, you know, there's one
  • 00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:49.110
  • soul mate."
  • 00:55:49.110 --> 00:55:50.000
  • But that's really more of an
  • 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:50.240
  • invention of Hollywood than it
  • 00:55:50.240 --> 00:55:51.200
  • is of the holy Scriptures.
  • 00:55:51.200 --> 00:55:52.270
  • - Leon: You know, there's
  • 00:55:52.270 --> 00:55:53.250
  • something I'll go on record of
  • 00:55:53.250 --> 00:55:54.230
  • saying.
  • 00:55:54.230 --> 00:55:55.130
  • After--I don't counsel anymore
  • 00:55:55.130 --> 00:55:56.250
  • but after decades of counseling,
  • 00:55:56.250 --> 00:55:58.100
  • pastoral counseling, most people
  • 00:55:58.100 --> 00:56:00.080
  • who are struggling in a second
  • 00:56:00.080 --> 00:56:02.050
  • or a third marriage, not all,
  • 00:56:02.050 --> 00:56:04.040
  • most, though, would say, "I
  • 00:56:04.040 --> 00:56:06.110
  • should have worked out my
  • 00:56:06.110 --> 00:56:07.110
  • first."
  • 00:56:07.110 --> 00:56:08.110
  • - Tim: Yeah, absolutely.
  • 00:56:08.110 --> 00:56:09.060
  • And that's another cultural
  • 00:56:09.060 --> 00:56:10.190
  • trend we're seeing with
  • 00:56:10.190 --> 00:56:11.180
  • the next generation.
  • 00:56:11.180 --> 00:56:12.270
  • You've a very contemporary
  • 00:56:12.270 --> 00:56:13.160
  • church in the Springs,
  • 00:56:13.160 --> 00:56:14.160
  • similar scenario.
  • 00:56:14.160 --> 00:56:15.170
  • People are just using it in
  • 00:56:15.170 --> 00:56:16.260
  • a disposable way.
  • 00:56:16.260 --> 00:56:17.260
  • They say, "Well, if this doesn't
  • 00:56:17.260 --> 00:56:18.220
  • work out, it's like my starter
  • 00:56:18.220 --> 00:56:19.150
  • marriage."
  • 00:56:19.150 --> 00:56:20.160
  • And then they kinda move on.
  • 00:56:20.160 --> 00:56:21.230
  • Now, at Liquid Church, we
  • 00:56:21.230 --> 00:56:23.000
  • welcome divorced folks, in fact,
  • 00:56:23.000 --> 00:56:24.250
  • more than anything.
  • 00:56:24.250 --> 00:56:25.240
  • It's our joy that they would
  • 00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:27.000
  • join our family.
  • 00:56:27.000 --> 00:56:28.040
  • I have a single parent, my wife
  • 00:56:28.040 --> 00:56:29.180
  • was raised by--I'm indebted.
  • 00:56:29.180 --> 00:56:31.240
  • - Leon: But they'd be the first
  • 00:56:31.240 --> 00:56:33.010
  • people to tell you, "Could you
  • 00:56:33.010 --> 00:56:34.000
  • help my kids not go through the
  • 00:56:34.000 --> 00:56:35.220
  • pain that I went through?
  • 00:56:35.220 --> 00:56:37.080
  • I would love their first
  • 00:56:37.080 --> 00:56:38.020
  • marriage to work."
  • 00:56:38.020 --> 00:56:39.080
  • So that way, we--'cause I was,
  • 00:56:39.080 --> 00:56:40.180
  • like, I would back away from
  • 00:56:40.180 --> 00:56:41.190
  • marriage 'cause I didn't want to
  • 00:56:41.190 --> 00:56:42.280
  • offend these precious people who
  • 00:56:42.280 --> 00:56:44.210
  • were divorced and on their
  • 00:56:44.210 --> 00:56:46.080
  • second marriage.
  • 00:56:46.080 --> 00:56:47.110
  • And one day, I just said that at
  • 00:56:47.110 --> 00:56:48.140
  • one of the messages.
  • 00:56:48.140 --> 00:56:49.210
  • And a bunch of 'em said after,
  • 00:56:49.210 --> 00:56:51.020
  • "Pastor, we get it.
  • 00:56:51.020 --> 00:56:52.240
  • We want you to teach our kids.
  • 00:56:52.240 --> 00:56:53.290
  • We don't want them to go like
  • 00:56:53.290 --> 00:56:55.070
  • that."
  • 00:56:55.070 --> 00:56:55.270
  • So I'm glad you brought that up.
  • 00:56:55.270 --> 00:56:57.060
  • We love 'em, we want 'em in
  • 00:56:57.060 --> 00:56:58.110
  • droves.
  • 00:56:58.110 --> 00:56:59.030
  • - Tim: Absolutely.
  • 00:56:59.030 --> 00:56:59.290
  • - Leon: Half our church has
  • 00:56:59.290 --> 00:57:00.220
  • been there.
  • 00:57:00.220 --> 00:57:01.110
  • It's like at--
  • 00:57:01.110 --> 00:57:02.070
  • - Tim: Absolutely.
  • 00:57:02.070 --> 00:57:02.270
  • It's very, very similar, very
  • 00:57:02.270 --> 00:57:03.180
  • similar.
  • 00:57:03.180 --> 00:57:04.090
  • So we're thrilled, you know.
  • 00:57:04.090 --> 00:57:05.010
  • I think, you know, one of the
  • 00:57:05.010 --> 00:57:05.230
  • cultural trends that we're
  • 00:57:05.230 --> 00:57:06.170
  • seeing now, particularly with
  • 00:57:06.170 --> 00:57:07.150
  • millennials, there's this
  • 00:57:07.150 --> 00:57:08.150
  • interesting gap right now where
  • 00:57:08.150 --> 00:57:09.250
  • they have, because of the
  • 00:57:09.250 --> 00:57:10.280
  • pornographic media culture,
  • 00:57:10.280 --> 00:57:12.060
  • right, that exists out there,
  • 00:57:12.060 --> 00:57:13.180
  • never before have people just
  • 00:57:13.180 --> 00:57:14.290
  • kinda idealized who
  • 00:57:14.290 --> 00:57:16.040
  • potential--you know, their
  • 00:57:16.040 --> 00:57:17.280
  • spouse could be.
  • 00:57:17.280 --> 00:57:18.260
  • At the same time, never before
  • 00:57:18.260 --> 00:57:19.290
  • have they had a lower view of
  • 00:57:19.290 --> 00:57:21.220
  • marriage, of what it's gonna be
  • 00:57:21.220 --> 00:57:23.130
  • like, because there's so few
  • 00:57:23.130 --> 00:57:24.120
  • examples of it.
  • 00:57:24.120 --> 00:57:25.170
  • Healthy, vibrant, actually, not
  • 00:57:25.170 --> 00:57:26.250
  • perfect.
  • 00:57:26.250 --> 00:57:27.160
  • Not perfect.
  • 00:57:27.160 --> 00:57:28.150
  • There is no perfect marriage but
  • 00:57:28.150 --> 00:57:30.010
  • there's this gap and so they
  • 00:57:30.010 --> 00:57:31.250
  • feel paralyzed.
  • 00:57:31.250 --> 00:57:33.020
  • You know, "I'll never find that
  • 00:57:33.020 --> 00:57:34.220
  • person and, if I do, here's my
  • 00:57:34.220 --> 00:57:35.240
  • choices.
  • 00:57:35.240 --> 00:57:37.110
  • I'm gonna be married and bored
  • 00:57:37.110 --> 00:57:38.270
  • or lonely and single."
  • 00:57:38.270 --> 00:57:40.120
  • That's what a lot of
  • 00:57:40.120 --> 00:57:41.040
  • 20-somethings think.
  • 00:57:41.040 --> 00:57:42.230
  • And that's why they're living in
  • 00:57:42.230 --> 00:57:43.200
  • your basement.
  • 00:57:43.200 --> 00:57:44.210
  • That's why
  • 00:57:44.210 --> 00:57:46.260
  • - Leon: You know, when it comes
  • 00:57:46.260 --> 00:57:49.020
  • to those who are listening,
  • 00:57:49.020 --> 00:57:50.220
  • 'cause sexuality's a huge issue.
  • 00:57:50.220 --> 00:57:53.070
  • I mean, God has given us desires
  • 00:57:53.070 --> 00:57:55.010
  • and then he said, "Delight
  • 00:57:55.010 --> 00:57:56.180
  • yourself in me and I'll show you
  • 00:57:56.180 --> 00:57:57.270
  • how to meet them."
  • 00:57:57.270 --> 00:57:58.200
  • But people don't realize it.
  • 00:57:58.200 --> 00:58:00.060
  • If you--whether it's
  • 00:58:00.060 --> 00:58:01.170
  • pornography, whether it's books,
  • 00:58:01.170 --> 00:58:03.000
  • that write in a way you could
  • 00:58:03.000 --> 00:58:04.200
  • never achieve it, they paint
  • 00:58:04.200 --> 00:58:06.120
  • these pictures and they actually
  • 00:58:06.120 --> 00:58:08.000
  • begin to destroy our ability to
  • 00:58:08.000 --> 00:58:09.170
  • have great sex lives as married
  • 00:58:09.170 --> 00:58:10.260
  • people.
  • 00:58:10.260 --> 00:58:11.270
  • - Tim: That's right, that's
  • 00:58:11.270 --> 00:58:12.170
  • right.
  • 00:58:12.170 --> 00:58:13.090
  • - Leon: They destroy it because
  • 00:58:13.090 --> 00:58:14.020
  • this fantasy goes so far, and
  • 00:58:14.020 --> 00:58:15.230
  • I'm not even gonna say beyond,
  • 00:58:15.230 --> 00:58:17.070
  • it's just unrealistic.
  • 00:58:17.070 --> 00:58:19.050
  • - Tim: Yeah, absolutely.
  • 00:58:19.050 --> 00:58:19.280
  • It corrodes.
  • 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:21.090
  • It's very much like a toxin and
  • 00:58:21.090 --> 00:58:22.200
  • it erodes our capacity for
  • 00:58:22.200 --> 00:58:24.060
  • delayed gratification which,
  • 00:58:24.060 --> 00:58:25.200
  • P.S., the majority of adult life
  • 00:58:25.200 --> 00:58:27.060
  • is about.
  • 00:58:27.060 --> 00:58:28.130
  • We try to impart that to our
  • 00:58:28.130 --> 00:58:29.140
  • kids.
  • 00:58:29.140 --> 00:58:30.200
  • - Leon: I tell people all the
  • 00:58:30.200 --> 00:58:31.120
  • time, I say, "You think you know
  • 00:58:31.120 --> 00:58:32.100
  • sex because of technique and how
  • 00:58:32.100 --> 00:58:34.070
  • many people you've been with."
  • 00:58:34.070 --> 00:58:36.040
  • I said, "But you have no concept
  • 00:58:36.040 --> 00:58:37.180
  • of the depths of loving somebody
  • 00:58:37.200 --> 00:58:40.200
  • as a person before."
  • 00:58:40.200 --> 00:58:43.100
  • It's something so few have ever
  • 00:58:43.100 --> 00:58:45.100
  • experienced.
  • 00:58:45.100 --> 00:58:46.140
  • - Tim: Very much so.
  • 00:58:46.140 --> 00:58:47.080
  • Very much so.
  • 00:58:47.080 --> 00:58:48.040
  • You know, we have so many folks
  • 00:58:48.040 --> 00:58:49.090
  • you probably heard the argument,
  • 00:58:51.110 --> 00:58:52.130
  • who say, "Well, you know, you
  • 00:58:52.130 --> 00:58:53.040
  • wouldn't get married
  • 00:58:53.040 --> 00:58:53.230
  • without--you wouldn't buy a pair
  • 00:58:53.230 --> 00:58:54.210
  • of shoes without trying 'em on
  • 00:58:54.210 --> 00:58:55.210
  • first, right?"
  • 00:58:55.210 --> 00:58:56.260
  • This is the hook-up culture.
  • 00:58:56.260 --> 00:58:58.140
  • It's the hook-up, it's
  • 00:58:58.140 --> 00:58:59.050
  • the shack-up culture.
  • 00:58:59.050 --> 00:59:00.030
  • Again, 1960, it would be
  • 00:59:00.030 --> 00:59:01.260
  • a phenomenon.
  • 00:59:01.260 --> 00:59:02.230
  • There wasn't even a term called
  • 00:59:02.230 --> 00:59:03.150
  • cohabitation.
  • 00:59:03.150 --> 00:59:04.180
  • It was a phenomenon.
  • 00:59:04.180 --> 00:59:05.280
  • Nobody did.
  • 00:59:05.280 --> 00:59:06.140
  • Now today, more than 60% of
  • 00:59:06.140 --> 00:59:08.000
  • people will live together
  • 00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:09.080
  • before getting married.
  • 00:59:09.080 --> 00:59:10.250
  • I talk about this in the book.
  • 00:59:10.250 --> 00:59:11.210
  • consequences that are
  • 00:59:13.250 --> 00:59:15.070
  • devastating.
  • 00:59:15.070 --> 00:59:16.030
  • It's completely unequal footing.
  • 00:59:16.030 --> 00:59:17.290
  • Because the female typically
  • 00:59:17.290 --> 00:59:19.040
  • goes in, she sees living
  • 00:59:19.040 --> 00:59:20.040
  • together as, "This is a step
  • 00:59:20.040 --> 00:59:21.070
  • towards marriage."
  • 00:59:21.070 --> 00:59:22.190
  • Where the guy actually thinks
  • 00:59:22.190 --> 00:59:23.200
  • just the opposite.
  • 00:59:23.200 --> 00:59:25.060
  • "This is my chance to tap the
  • 00:59:25.060 --> 00:59:27.070
  • brakes and, if I get a red light
  • 00:59:27.070 --> 00:59:29.280
  • on the dashboard, I got an easy
  • 00:59:29.280 --> 00:59:31.160
  • out."
  • 00:59:31.160 --> 00:59:32.080
  • So it's already starting the
  • 00:59:32.080 --> 00:59:33.060
  • relationship off on unequal
  • 00:59:33.060 --> 00:59:34.070
  • footing.
  • 00:59:34.070 --> 00:59:35.070
  • - Leon: Oh, I tell a story
  • 00:59:35.070 --> 00:59:36.120
  • whenever I talk to singles or
  • 00:59:36.120 --> 00:59:38.140
  • when I get a chance to talk on
  • 00:59:38.140 --> 00:59:39.100
  • sexuality, I'll say, "If you
  • 00:59:39.100 --> 00:59:40.080
  • want me to tell--explain to you
  • 00:59:40.080 --> 00:59:41.210
  • the most perfect wedding night,
  • 00:59:41.210 --> 00:59:43.260
  • this is what it looks like."
  • 00:59:43.260 --> 00:59:45.030
  • And they all kind of go quiet.
  • 00:59:45.030 --> 00:59:46.160
  • And I said, "It's you get
  • 00:59:46.160 --> 00:59:48.070
  • married, you go to the room that
  • 00:59:48.070 --> 00:59:49.230
  • you've rented or hotel or
  • 00:59:49.230 --> 00:59:51.160
  • cottage or tent or whatever
  • 00:59:51.160 --> 00:59:52.280
  • you've got."
  • 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:53.200
  • And I said, "You both get ready
  • 00:59:53.200 --> 00:59:56.160
  • for bed," and they think I'm
  • 00:59:56.160 --> 00:59:57.260
  • about to get X-rated.
  • 00:59:57.260 --> 00:59:59.050
  • And I go, "And you both are such
  • 00:59:59.050 --> 01:00:01.190
  • rookies, you don't know what
  • 01:00:01.190 --> 01:00:03.110
  • you're doing, it's hilarious,
  • 01:00:03.110 --> 01:00:05.120
  • it's funny."
  • 01:00:05.120 --> 01:00:06.150
  • I said, "That's the most
  • 01:00:06.150 --> 01:00:07.210
  • gorgeous, beautiful wedding
  • 01:00:07.210 --> 01:00:09.140
  • night you could ever have."
  • 01:00:09.140 --> 01:00:10.160
  • And they kind of go, "What?"
  • 01:00:10.160 --> 01:00:11.170
  • Or I said, "You could get
  • 01:00:11.170 --> 01:00:12.100
  • married and the other person
  • 01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:14.050
  • knows every trick in the book
  • 01:00:14.050 --> 01:00:15.100
  • and then you're kind of going,
  • 01:00:15.100 --> 01:00:16.180
  • 'Uh, where'd they get that
  • 01:00:16.180 --> 01:00:17.150
  • from?'"
  • 01:00:17.150 --> 01:00:18.160
  • - Tim: "Who is he thinking of?
  • 01:00:18.160 --> 01:00:19.180
  • Who is he comparing me to?"
  • 01:00:19.180 --> 01:00:21.030
  • All of that.
  • 01:00:21.030 --> 01:00:22.010
  • - Leon: So God wants us to
  • 01:00:22.010 --> 01:00:23.010
  • learn and develop together.
  • 01:00:23.010 --> 01:00:24.000
  • - Tim: He's the inventor of
  • 01:00:24.000 --> 01:00:25.000
  • sex.
  • 01:00:25.000 --> 01:00:25.220
  • - Leon: C'mon.
  • 01:00:25.220 --> 01:00:26.140
  • - Tim: Christians should not be
  • 01:00:26.140 --> 01:00:27.100
  • prudes about this.
  • 01:00:27.100 --> 01:00:28.060
  • What you're describing is
  • 01:00:28.060 --> 01:00:29.050
  • the original in the garden.
  • 01:00:29.050 --> 01:00:31.250
  • The man and the woman were naked
  • 01:00:31.250 --> 01:00:32.170
  • and they felt no shame.
  • 01:00:32.170 --> 01:00:34.050
  • - Leon: No shame.
  • 01:00:34.050 --> 01:00:34.270
  • - Tim: Our culture is shameless
  • 01:00:34.270 --> 01:00:36.100
  • but in a negative context.
  • 01:00:36.100 --> 01:00:37.290
  • There's so much bad and so much
  • 01:00:37.290 --> 01:00:39.120
  • shame, so much pressure attached
  • 01:00:39.120 --> 01:00:41.100
  • to that, that I think people
  • 01:00:41.100 --> 01:00:43.130
  • either--they kind of either
  • 01:00:43.130 --> 01:00:44.140
  • freeze up or they just say,
  • 01:00:44.140 --> 01:00:45.220
  • "Well, you know what?
  • 01:00:45.220 --> 01:00:46.140
  • I'm just gonna go out and to
  • 01:00:46.140 --> 01:00:47.120
  • heck with the consequences of
  • 01:00:47.120 --> 01:00:48.130
  • this.
  • 01:00:48.130 --> 01:00:49.150
  • At some point, maybe I'll get it
  • 01:00:49.150 --> 01:00:50.140
  • right.
  • 01:00:50.140 --> 01:00:51.060
  • Maybe it'll stick."
  • 01:00:51.060 --> 01:00:52.030
  • But it's just like a piece of
  • 01:00:52.030 --> 01:00:52.240
  • tape.
  • 01:00:52.240 --> 01:00:53.110
  • You start sticking it onto
  • 01:00:53.110 --> 01:00:54.000
  • people and eventually it just
  • 01:00:54.000 --> 01:00:54.210
  • loses its grip.
  • 01:00:54.210 --> 01:00:55.180
  • That's the problem with
  • 01:00:55.180 --> 01:00:56.070
  • intimacy.
  • 01:00:56.070 --> 01:00:56.280
  • - Leon: So "You Married the
  • 01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:57.200
  • Wrong Person!
  • 01:00:57.200 --> 01:00:58.230
  • The Relationship Secret Every
  • 01:00:58.230 --> 01:01:00.020
  • Couple Needs to Know."
  • 01:01:00.020 --> 01:01:02.150
  • What would you say if we just
  • 01:01:02.150 --> 01:01:03.260
  • unpacked a couple points?
  • 01:01:03.260 --> 01:01:05.130
  • What do you say to the people in
  • 01:01:05.130 --> 01:01:06.180
  • your church as you take on this?
  • 01:01:06.180 --> 01:01:08.150
  • 'Cause it's true, I have never
  • 01:01:08.150 --> 01:01:10.030
  • met so many lonely singles.
  • 01:01:10.030 --> 01:01:11.210
  • I mean, person after person
  • 01:01:11.210 --> 01:01:12.280
  • will tell me they've tried
  • 01:01:12.280 --> 01:01:14.070
  • everything, their friends
  • 01:01:14.070 --> 01:01:15.090
  • setting them up, and they'll
  • 01:01:15.090 --> 01:01:16.190
  • all--every one of them says
  • 01:01:16.190 --> 01:01:17.200
  • the same thing.
  • 01:01:17.200 --> 01:01:18.180
  • They'll look at you, gonna go,
  • 01:01:18.180 --> 01:01:19.140
  • "Am I gonna be lonely for
  • 01:01:19.140 --> 01:01:20.150
  • the rest of my life?
  • 01:01:20.150 --> 01:01:21.080
  • Are there no great people
  • 01:01:21.080 --> 01:01:22.080
  • out there?"
  • 01:01:22.080 --> 01:01:23.120
  • What do you say to--'cause
  • 01:01:23.120 --> 01:01:24.200
  • you've got a young church.
  • 01:01:24.200 --> 01:01:26.000
  • What do you say to them?
  • 01:01:26.000 --> 01:01:26.270
  • Well, how do you encourage them?
  • 01:01:26.270 --> 01:01:27.250
  • - Tim: Yeah, I just say,
  • 01:01:27.250 --> 01:01:28.160
  • "Have hope here."
  • 01:01:28.160 --> 01:01:29.240
  • There really is, I mean, God,
  • 01:01:29.240 --> 01:01:31.050
  • you know, he invented marriage
  • 01:01:31.050 --> 01:01:32.230
  • to reflect the gospel and so
  • 01:01:32.230 --> 01:01:34.060
  • people with a gospel heart,
  • 01:01:34.060 --> 01:01:35.130
  • think--they change the question.
  • 01:01:35.130 --> 01:01:37.040
  • It's not about finding the right
  • 01:01:37.040 --> 01:01:39.150
  • person, it's about becoming the
  • 01:01:39.150 --> 01:01:41.010
  • right person.
  • 01:01:41.010 --> 01:01:41.210
  • - Leon: Beautiful.
  • 01:01:41.210 --> 01:01:42.100
  • Beautiful.
  • 01:01:42.100 --> 01:01:43.040
  • - Tim: Am I becoming the man or
  • 01:01:43.040 --> 01:01:45.020
  • the woman of God who's worth
  • 01:01:45.020 --> 01:01:46.290
  • actually a commitment that
  • 01:01:46.290 --> 01:01:48.100
  • reflects the gospel?
  • 01:01:48.100 --> 01:01:49.240
  • And when you have--that just
  • 01:01:49.240 --> 01:01:51.220
  • changes everything.
  • 01:01:51.220 --> 01:01:52.230
  • - Leon: It changes everything.
  • 01:01:52.230 --> 01:01:53.180
  • - Tim: It changes everything.
  • 01:01:53.180 --> 01:01:54.180
  • It changes from
  • 01:01:54.180 --> 01:01:55.100
  • your disappointment,
  • 01:01:55.100 --> 01:01:56.030
  • your expectations.
  • 01:01:56.030 --> 01:01:57.000
  • You become more humble.
  • 01:01:57.000 --> 01:01:57.270
  • You actually take a look at the
  • 01:01:57.270 --> 01:01:59.010
  • character, which is of great
  • 01:01:59.010 --> 01:02:00.060
  • worth in God's eyes, right?
  • 01:02:00.060 --> 01:02:02.030
  • It shouldn't be about outward
  • 01:02:02.030 --> 01:02:03.150
  • adornment and gold jewelry.
  • 01:02:03.150 --> 01:02:04.290
  • In other words, put away the
  • 01:02:04.290 --> 01:02:06.000
  • bling, ladies, that's not it.
  • 01:02:06.000 --> 01:02:08.000
  • That's not--that's a piece, yes.
  • 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:09.240
  • But is there an inner character
  • 01:02:09.240 --> 01:02:11.210
  • and a depth?
  • 01:02:11.210 --> 01:02:12.220
  • Because that's the thing that's
  • 01:02:12.220 --> 01:02:13.190
  • gonna overcome when your wife
  • 01:02:13.190 --> 01:02:15.170
  • has depression, you know?
  • 01:02:15.170 --> 01:02:17.000
  • You were attracted originally
  • 01:02:17.000 --> 01:02:18.210
  • but now she's going through a
  • 01:02:18.210 --> 01:02:19.180
  • season of depression.
  • 01:02:19.180 --> 01:02:20.200
  • She needs meds.
  • 01:02:20.200 --> 01:02:21.150
  • Oh, well, it's not happy, happy,
  • 01:02:21.150 --> 01:02:22.100
  • joy, joy, anymore.
  • 01:02:22.100 --> 01:02:23.140
  • The gospel can get you through
  • 01:02:23.140 --> 01:02:24.050
  • this.
  • 01:02:24.050 --> 01:02:24.230
  • That's where character comes in.
  • 01:02:24.230 --> 01:02:26.180
  • When a husband is unfaithful,
  • 01:02:26.180 --> 01:02:28.150
  • he's--now he's looking at
  • 01:02:28.150 --> 01:02:30.040
  • pornography and she discovers
  • 01:02:30.040 --> 01:02:30.270
  • this.
  • 01:02:30.270 --> 01:02:31.170
  • Do we now just, you know, throw
  • 01:02:31.170 --> 01:02:32.240
  • that out with the bathwater?
  • 01:02:32.240 --> 01:02:34.050
  • Or is there something deeper and
  • 01:02:34.050 --> 01:02:35.180
  • substantive that says, "We can
  • 01:02:35.180 --> 01:02:37.060
  • put the cross into play here.
  • 01:02:37.060 --> 01:02:39.060
  • We can actually forgive
  • 01:02:39.060 --> 01:02:40.060
  • We can actually say,
  • 01:02:42.080 --> 01:02:43.060
  • you know what?
  • 01:02:43.060 --> 01:02:43.240
  • This can make us stronger
  • 01:02:43.240 --> 01:02:44.140
  • in Christ."
  • 01:02:44.140 --> 01:02:45.030
  • - Leon: That is so good, so
  • 01:02:45.030 --> 01:02:46.030
  • good.
  • 01:02:46.030 --> 01:02:47.030
  • Give me some--another thought.
  • 01:02:47.030 --> 01:02:48.140
  • What's another thought from
  • 01:02:48.140 --> 01:02:49.080
  • here?
  • 01:02:49.080 --> 01:02:50.010
  • - Tim: Well, you know, I think
  • 01:02:50.010 --> 01:02:50.230
  • that whole idea, it's--it was
  • 01:02:50.230 --> 01:02:52.010
  • Jonathan Edwards.
  • 01:02:52.010 --> 01:02:52.280
  • I don't wanna take credit for
  • 01:02:52.280 --> 01:02:53.190
  • it, you know.
  • 01:02:53.190 --> 01:02:54.080
  • I'm just saying these things in
  • 01:02:54.080 --> 01:02:55.000
  • a contemporary fashion.
  • 01:02:55.000 --> 01:02:56.080
  • - Leon: We need to.
  • 01:02:56.080 --> 01:02:57.100
  • - Tim: Jonathan Edwards, older
  • 01:02:57.100 --> 01:02:58.110
  • Puritan preacher.
  • 01:02:58.110 --> 01:02:59.190
  • He was the one who originally
  • 01:02:59.190 --> 01:03:00.210
  • said, "Whatever we idolize,
  • 01:03:00.210 --> 01:03:02.280
  • eventually--or idealize,
  • 01:03:02.280 --> 01:03:04.170
  • eventually we'll idolize it."
  • 01:03:04.170 --> 01:03:06.010
  • In other words, we read
  • 01:03:06.010 --> 01:03:06.280
  • the Bible a lot of times and
  • 01:03:06.280 --> 01:03:07.210
  • does that mean, you know,
  • 01:03:09.230 --> 01:03:10.120
  • carved idols or something?
  • 01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:11.130
  • What is that
  • 01:03:11.130 --> 01:03:12.030
  • in the modern world?"
  • 01:03:12.030 --> 01:03:12.260
  • Often greed, power, money.
  • 01:03:12.260 --> 01:03:14.030
  • Sex is that for our culture,
  • 01:03:14.030 --> 01:03:15.250
  • for sure.
  • 01:03:15.250 --> 01:03:16.230
  • But I think we idealize that and
  • 01:03:16.230 --> 01:03:18.180
  • then all of a sudden, when we
  • 01:03:18.180 --> 01:03:19.250
  • set them up, we set them up
  • 01:03:19.250 --> 01:03:20.210
  • for failure.
  • 01:03:20.210 --> 01:03:21.220
  • When my wife couldn't be the
  • 01:03:21.220 --> 01:03:22.170
  • perfect wife that I thought she
  • 01:03:22.170 --> 01:03:24.080
  • should be, cooking every night,
  • 01:03:24.080 --> 01:03:26.000
  • intimacy every night, you know,
  • 01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:27.130
  • all that kind of stuff, which
  • 01:03:27.130 --> 01:03:29.040
  • I know all of you are, like,
  • 01:03:29.040 --> 01:03:30.190
  • "Rookie!"
  • 01:03:30.190 --> 01:03:31.160
  • Right?
  • 01:03:31.160 --> 01:03:33.250
  • I eventually demonize.
  • 01:03:33.250 --> 01:03:35.140
  • You say, "Well, this person,
  • 01:03:35.140 --> 01:03:37.000
  • she's high maintenance or,
  • 01:03:37.000 --> 01:03:38.130
  • you know, he's not doing this."
  • 01:03:38.130 --> 01:03:39.240
  • And then we demonize them.
  • 01:03:39.240 --> 01:03:41.140
  • We throw them out.
  • 01:03:41.140 --> 01:03:42.130
  • And that's the opposite of what
  • 01:03:42.130 --> 01:03:43.100
  • God wants us to do.
  • 01:03:43.100 --> 01:03:44.130
  • - Leon: It's so true.
  • 01:03:44.130 --> 01:03:45.220
  • - Tim: And marriage reflects
  • 01:03:45.220 --> 01:03:46.180
  • gospel and, without the gospel,
  • 01:03:46.180 --> 01:03:47.230
  • marriage just won't work.
  • 01:03:47.230 --> 01:03:49.070
  • - Leon: You know, one of the
  • 01:03:49.070 --> 01:03:50.180
  • most horrible feelings there is,
  • 01:03:50.180 --> 01:03:52.060
  • is the feeling of powerlessness,
  • 01:03:52.060 --> 01:03:54.250
  • that you can't change something
  • 01:03:54.250 --> 01:03:56.190
  • that you're unhappy about in
  • 01:03:56.190 --> 01:03:57.140
  • your own life.
  • 01:03:57.140 --> 01:03:58.240
  • So when you do what you just
  • 01:03:58.240 --> 01:04:00.050
  • said, you begin to demonize the
  • 01:04:00.050 --> 01:04:01.220
  • person that you love so much and
  • 01:04:01.220 --> 01:04:03.180
  • you do, and you begin to hold
  • 01:04:03.180 --> 01:04:04.270
  • them at fault and you blame them
  • 01:04:04.270 --> 01:04:06.160
  • for, you begin to enter the zone
  • 01:04:06.160 --> 01:04:08.160
  • of powerlessness.
  • 01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:10.140
  • And it is the worst place to
  • 01:04:10.140 --> 01:04:12.000
  • ever be in 'cause now you think
  • 01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:13.180
  • that person controls everything
  • 01:04:13.180 --> 01:04:15.170
  • in your life.
  • 01:04:15.170 --> 01:04:16.110
  • - Tim: They have the control.
  • 01:04:16.110 --> 01:04:17.020
  • - Leon: And they don't.
  • 01:04:17.020 --> 01:04:17.280
  • When you take that back and you
  • 01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:19.130
  • go, "Jesus, I can change.
  • 01:04:19.130 --> 01:04:21.100
  • I can grow.
  • 01:04:21.100 --> 01:04:22.170
  • I can fall in love with you,"
  • 01:04:22.170 --> 01:04:23.280
  • there's no way that you're
  • 01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:24.240
  • marrying someone to make you
  • 01:04:24.240 --> 01:04:25.210
  • happy, okay?
  • 01:04:25.210 --> 01:04:27.070
  • Because that is a tall order.
  • 01:04:27.070 --> 01:04:29.000
  • You're marrying someone to grow
  • 01:04:29.000 --> 01:04:30.020
  • together with and I don't
  • 01:04:30.020 --> 01:04:31.190
  • believe love is the first reason
  • 01:04:31.190 --> 01:04:33.060
  • for marriage.
  • 01:04:33.060 --> 01:04:34.100
  • Now, this--everyone gets shocked
  • 01:04:34.100 --> 01:04:35.140
  • when they hear that.
  • 01:04:35.140 --> 01:04:36.080
  • - Tim: Controversial, right?
  • 01:04:36.080 --> 01:04:36.290
  • - Leon: Because the Bible says,
  • 01:04:36.290 --> 01:04:38.050
  • "Seek first the kingdom."
  • 01:04:38.050 --> 01:04:39.080
  • - Tim: That's right.
  • 01:04:39.080 --> 01:04:39.260
  • - Leon: So people say, "Well,
  • 01:04:39.260 --> 01:04:40.260
  • whoa, whoa, wait.
  • 01:04:40.260 --> 01:04:41.180
  • You'd get married for not--" No,
  • 01:04:41.180 --> 01:04:42.240
  • no, I'm just saying, when you
  • 01:04:42.240 --> 01:04:44.020
  • find someone, do they have
  • 01:04:44.020 --> 01:04:46.170
  • a purpose for Christ,
  • 01:04:46.170 --> 01:04:48.080
  • a love for Christ?
  • 01:04:48.080 --> 01:04:49.170
  • And then fall in love
  • 01:04:49.170 --> 01:04:50.280
  • with that person.
  • 01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:52.100
  • Seek first the kingdom, because
  • 01:04:52.100 --> 01:04:53.180
  • otherwise, literally, if you
  • 01:04:53.180 --> 01:04:55.030
  • find someone with a certain
  • 01:04:55.030 --> 01:04:56.120
  • build, a certain personality,
  • 01:04:56.120 --> 01:04:59.050
  • and you just hang with them
  • 01:04:59.050 --> 01:05:00.110
  • a few days a week, you'll just
  • 01:05:00.110 --> 01:05:02.030
  • start falling in love with them
  • 01:05:02.030 --> 01:05:03.000
  • or the word that we use
  • 01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:03.280
  • for love.
  • 01:05:03.280 --> 01:05:04.230
  • - Tim: That's right.
  • 01:05:04.230 --> 01:05:05.100
  • - Leon: Wouldn't you agree it's
  • 01:05:05.100 --> 01:05:06.020
  • pretty easy to do?
  • 01:05:06.020 --> 01:05:06.170
  • - Tim: Absolutely.
  • 01:05:06.170 --> 01:05:07.040
  • I think our culture makes
  • 01:05:07.040 --> 01:05:07.290
  • happiness the number one purpose
  • 01:05:07.290 --> 01:05:09.150
  • of marriage.
  • 01:05:09.150 --> 01:05:10.130
  • Why do you get married?
  • 01:05:10.130 --> 01:05:11.080
  • Well, to be happy.
  • 01:05:11.080 --> 01:05:12.060
  • He completes me, right?
  • 01:05:12.060 --> 01:05:13.140
  • That whole thing.
  • 01:05:13.140 --> 01:05:14.220
  • The Bible says, guess what?
  • 01:05:14.220 --> 01:05:16.230
  • The original purpose of marriage
  • 01:05:16.230 --> 01:05:18.130
  • is holiness.
  • 01:05:18.130 --> 01:05:19.260
  • And if you go after holiness,
  • 01:05:19.260 --> 01:05:21.130
  • you get happiness thrown in.
  • 01:05:21.130 --> 01:05:23.070
  • But if you go after happiness,
  • 01:05:23.070 --> 01:05:24.130
  • you don't get either.
  • 01:05:24.130 --> 01:05:25.280
  • - Leon: You know, every
  • 01:05:25.280 --> 01:05:26.230
  • person--yeah, amen.
  • 01:05:26.230 --> 01:05:28.050
  • That's a great point, isn't it?
  • 01:05:28.050 --> 01:05:28.290
  • C'mon.
  • 01:05:28.290 --> 01:05:29.260
  • - Tim: Just telling the truth.
  • 01:05:29.260 --> 01:05:31.050
  • From the Word and experience.
  • 01:05:31.050 --> 01:05:32.190
  • - Leon: I have noticed that
  • 01:05:32.190 --> 01:05:34.270
  • everybody and anybody that
  • 01:05:34.270 --> 01:05:37.200
  • pursues happiness are some of
  • 01:05:37.200 --> 01:05:39.150
  • the most unhappy people
  • 01:05:39.150 --> 01:05:40.250
  • I've ever met.
  • 01:05:40.250 --> 01:05:41.290
  • I'll ask parents today what do
  • 01:05:41.290 --> 01:05:43.050
  • you want for your kids.
  • 01:05:43.050 --> 01:05:44.220
  • Now, in my parents' day, if you
  • 01:05:44.220 --> 01:05:46.220
  • asked 'em that they would say,
  • 01:05:46.220 --> 01:05:47.220
  • "I want them to be good people.
  • 01:05:47.220 --> 01:05:49.280
  • I want them to live
  • 01:05:49.280 --> 01:05:50.170
  • with purpose.
  • 01:05:50.170 --> 01:05:51.110
  • I want 'em to know God."
  • 01:05:51.110 --> 01:05:52.160
  • They wouldn't even talk about
  • 01:05:52.160 --> 01:05:53.100
  • the word happy.
  • 01:05:53.100 --> 01:05:54.100
  • But today the only thing parents
  • 01:05:54.100 --> 01:05:55.110
  • say is, "I just want them
  • 01:05:55.110 --> 01:05:57.240
  • to be happy."
  • 01:05:57.240 --> 01:05:59.180
  • And we're raising up a depressed
  • 01:05:59.180 --> 01:06:01.060
  • generation until they decide to
  • 01:06:01.060 --> 01:06:04.040
  • stop pursuing--and pursue Christ
  • 01:06:04.040 --> 01:06:06.060
  • and purpose and value.
  • 01:06:06.060 --> 01:06:07.280
  • And then happiness will chase
  • 01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:08.220
  • you down.
  • 01:06:08.220 --> 01:06:09.260
  • - Tim: Yes.
  • 01:06:09.260 --> 01:06:10.170
  • It sounds loving.
  • 01:06:10.170 --> 01:06:11.170
  • We want our kids to be happy.
  • 01:06:11.170 --> 01:06:12.280
  • It's such a low bar.
  • 01:06:12.280 --> 01:06:14.160
  • I want them to have purpose and
  • 01:06:14.160 --> 01:06:16.170
  • meaning to know that they were
  • 01:06:16.170 --> 01:06:18.020
  • actually created by God, on
  • 01:06:18.020 --> 01:06:19.170
  • purpose, born into this time to
  • 01:06:19.170 --> 01:06:21.220
  • change their times.
  • 01:06:21.220 --> 01:06:23.090
  • There's a bigger destiny that
  • 01:06:23.090 --> 01:06:24.260
  • they have in God's great
  • 01:06:24.260 --> 01:06:25.230
  • universe than just happiness,
  • 01:06:25.230 --> 01:06:27.060
  • and our version of it, for sure.
  • 01:06:27.060 --> 01:06:29.110
  • - Leon: Amen.
  • 01:06:29.110 --> 01:06:29.290
  • Well, before we--our time is up,
  • 01:06:29.290 --> 01:06:31.010
  • you--Liquid Church is the name
  • 01:06:31.010 --> 01:06:32.250
  • of your church.
  • 01:06:32.250 --> 01:06:33.180
  • - Tim: Yes.
  • 01:06:33.180 --> 01:06:34.040
  • - Leon: And you guys are in how
  • 01:06:34.040 --> 01:06:34.260
  • many sites?
  • 01:06:34.260 --> 01:06:35.200
  • - Tim: We have 5 sites where,
  • 01:06:35.200 --> 01:06:36.260
  • similar to the Springs, we have
  • 01:06:36.260 --> 01:06:38.070
  • 4.000 people, and it's right
  • 01:06:40.150 --> 01:06:42.060
  • outside of New York City so we
  • 01:06:42.060 --> 01:06:43.180
  • have these different locations
  • 01:06:43.180 --> 01:06:44.210
  • and it's really--
  • 01:06:44.210 --> 01:06:45.130
  • - Leon: Name them real quick.
  • 01:06:45.130 --> 01:06:46.090
  • - Tim: Sure, we actually have
  • 01:06:46.090 --> 01:06:47.040
  • Morristown campus, Nutley, New
  • 01:06:47.040 --> 01:06:49.110
  • Mountainside, and we're gonna be
  • 01:06:51.220 --> 01:06:53.000
  • starting one in Jersey City
  • 01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:53.210
  • very soon.
  • 01:06:53.210 --> 01:06:54.130
  • So we're excited about that.
  • 01:06:54.130 --> 01:06:55.060
  • - Leon: So if they google
  • 01:06:55.060 --> 01:06:55.250
  • Liquid Church--
  • 01:06:55.250 --> 01:06:56.140
  • - Tim: Jersey City!
  • 01:06:56.140 --> 01:06:57.080
  • That's right.
  • 01:06:57.080 --> 01:06:59.140
  • - Leon: So if anyone is looking
  • 01:06:59.140 --> 01:07:00.230
  • for a church that's contemporary
  • 01:07:00.230 --> 01:07:02.290
  • but loves the Word of God, no
  • 01:07:02.290 --> 01:07:04.230
  • compromise, all we'd have to do
  • 01:07:04.230 --> 01:07:06.080
  • would be to google or what's the
  • 01:07:06.080 --> 01:07:07.290
  • website?
  • 01:07:07.290 --> 01:07:08.200
  • - Tim: Liquidchurch.com.
  • 01:07:08.200 --> 01:07:09.290
  • - Leon: Liquidchurch.com.
  • 01:07:09.290 --> 01:07:11.260
  • - Tim: I think people hear the
  • 01:07:11.260 --> 01:07:12.180
  • name Liquid, let's be honest,
  • 01:07:12.180 --> 01:07:13.200
  • they assume we're a, you know,
  • 01:07:13.200 --> 01:07:14.270
  • a cult.
  • 01:07:14.270 --> 01:07:16.060
  • They're either a cult or a
  • 01:07:16.060 --> 01:07:17.190
  • drinking fraternity, right?
  • 01:07:17.190 --> 01:07:18.250
  • But we--then they're wrong on,
  • 01:07:18.250 --> 01:07:20.220
  • you know, the first one.
  • 01:07:20.220 --> 01:07:22.180
  • And the--but the reality is we
  • 01:07:22.180 --> 01:07:23.270
  • named it liquid for a simple
  • 01:07:23.270 --> 01:07:25.000
  • reason.
  • 01:07:25.000 --> 01:07:25.240
  • Jesus calls himself the living
  • 01:07:25.240 --> 01:07:26.250
  • water.
  • 01:07:26.250 --> 01:07:27.190
  • And we believe church should be
  • 01:07:27.190 --> 01:07:28.270
  • refreshing.
  • 01:07:28.270 --> 01:07:29.210
  • It should bring a spring, a
  • 01:07:29.210 --> 01:07:31.050
  • spring of liquid within you,
  • 01:07:31.050 --> 01:07:32.120
  • coming out, overflowing,
  • 01:07:32.120 --> 01:07:33.210
  • presenting the gospel a winsome
  • 01:07:33.210 --> 01:07:34.250
  • way.
  • 01:07:34.250 --> 01:07:35.210
  • - Leon: Well, talking to you is
  • 01:07:35.210 --> 01:07:37.100
  • refreshing.
  • 01:07:37.100 --> 01:07:38.000
  • - Tim: It's a pleasure, Leon.
  • 01:07:38.000 --> 01:07:38.220
  • - Leon: It's a pleasure to have
  • 01:07:38.220 --> 01:07:39.140
  • you--
  • 01:07:39.140 --> 01:07:39.290
  • Give him a hand.
  • 01:07:39.290 --> 01:07:40.270
  • That was awesome.
  • 01:07:40.270 --> 01:07:41.210
  • Wasn't that good?
  • 01:07:41.210 --> 01:07:42.280
  • Man, oh man.
  • 01:07:42.280 --> 01:07:45.090
  • Well, we're gonna have one more
  • 01:07:46.020 --> 01:07:49.020
  • song and so welcome
  • 01:07:49.020 --> 01:07:51.090
  • Onaje Jefferson and
  • 01:07:51.090 --> 01:07:52.050
  • [music]
  • 01:07:59.100 --> 01:08:02.120
  • You unravel me,
  • 01:08:02.230 --> 01:08:05.230
  • Surround me with a song
  • 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:15.000
  • of deliverance,
  • 01:08:15.130 --> 01:08:18.130
  • 'til all my fears are gone.
  • 01:08:23.280 --> 01:08:26.280
  • Anybody glad about that?
  • 01:08:26.280 --> 01:08:28.050
  • I'm no longer
  • 01:08:28.050 --> 01:08:30.090
  • a slave to fear.
  • 01:08:30.090 --> 01:08:33.050
  • C'mon, if you know it,
  • 01:08:33.050 --> 01:08:33.270
  • sing it out, church.
  • 01:08:33.270 --> 01:08:34.280
  • I am a child of God.
  • 01:08:37.280 --> 01:08:40.280
  • And I'm no longer a slave
  • 01:08:41.250 --> 01:08:44.250
  • to fear.
  • 01:08:44.250 --> 01:08:47.080
  • Oh, I am a child of God.
  • 01:08:51.130 --> 01:08:54.130
  • Oh, yeah.
  • 01:09:00.250 --> 01:09:03.250
  • And from my mother's womb
  • 01:09:03.270 --> 01:09:06.270
  • you have chosen me.
  • 01:09:07.010 --> 01:09:10.010
  • Love has called my name.
  • 01:09:13.060 --> 01:09:16.060
  • And I've been born again,
  • 01:09:16.080 --> 01:09:19.080
  • to your family.
  • 01:09:20.010 --> 01:09:23.010
  • Oh, your blood flows
  • 01:09:23.010 --> 01:09:25.120
  • through my veins.
  • 01:09:25.170 --> 01:09:28.170
  • Sing it out, say,
  • 01:09:28.170 --> 01:09:29.220
  • and I'm no longer
  • 01:09:29.220 --> 01:09:32.010
  • a slave to fear.
  • 01:09:32.010 --> 01:09:34.220
  • Yeah.
  • 01:09:34.220 --> 01:09:35.260
  • I am a child of God.
  • 01:09:38.090 --> 01:09:41.090
  • It's who we are.
  • 01:09:41.090 --> 01:09:42.150
  • I'm no longer a slave
  • 01:09:42.240 --> 01:09:45.240
  • to fear.
  • 01:09:45.240 --> 01:09:48.090
  • Oh no, no.
  • 01:09:48.090 --> 01:09:49.140
  • I am a child of God.
  • 01:09:50.220 --> 01:09:53.220
  • Sing it again,say
  • 01:09:53.220 --> 01:09:55.270
  • I'm no longer
  • 01:09:55.270 --> 01:09:57.210
  • a slave to fear.
  • 01:09:57.210 --> 01:10:00.180
  • Oh no.
  • 01:10:00.180 --> 01:10:02.020
  • I am a child of God.
  • 01:10:04.040 --> 01:10:07.040
  • Oh, yes.
  • 01:10:07.040 --> 01:10:08.240
  • I'm no longer
  • 01:10:08.240 --> 01:10:10.200
  • a slave to fear.
  • 01:10:11.050 --> 01:10:14.050
  • Oh, I am a child of God.
  • 01:10:17.280 --> 01:10:20.280
  • Oh, oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:10:22.060 --> 01:10:25.060
  • Oh-oh.
  • 01:10:25.260 --> 01:10:28.260
  • Oh-oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:10:32.040 --> 01:10:35.040
  • Oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:10:35.110 --> 01:10:38.110
  • - Onaje: One voice tonight.
  • 01:10:38.110 --> 01:10:39.250
  • If you're a child of God,
  • 01:10:39.250 --> 01:10:40.240
  • can you sing it out with us?
  • 01:10:40.240 --> 01:10:42.110
  • C'mon, like one choir
  • 01:10:42.110 --> 01:10:43.140
  • in this place, say, oh!
  • 01:10:43.140 --> 01:10:45.120
  • Oh-oh,
  • 01:10:45.120 --> 01:10:48.080
  • oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:10:48.080 --> 01:10:51.000
  • - Onaje: Well, that's the sound
  • 01:10:51.000 --> 01:10:51.220
  • of a child of God tonight.
  • 01:10:51.220 --> 01:10:53.180
  • That's the sound of a son or
  • 01:10:53.180 --> 01:10:55.080
  • a daughter who's been redeemed
  • 01:10:55.080 --> 01:10:56.110
  • by the blood of the Lamb.
  • 01:10:56.110 --> 01:10:58.190
  • Whoa-oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:10:59.070 --> 01:11:02.090
  • Oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:11:02.090 --> 01:11:03.220
  • Whoa-oh-oh-oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:11:04.040 --> 01:11:07.040
  • Yes!
  • 01:11:07.040 --> 01:11:08.170
  • Split the sea, yeah.
  • 01:11:08.170 --> 01:11:11.000
  • You split the sea so I could
  • 01:11:11.010 --> 01:11:14.010
  • walk right through it.
  • 01:11:14.120 --> 01:11:17.120
  • My fears.
  • 01:11:17.120 --> 01:11:18.050
  • My fears are drowned
  • 01:11:18.050 --> 01:11:19.210
  • in perfect love.
  • 01:11:19.210 --> 01:11:21.150
  • Perfect love cast out
  • 01:11:21.150 --> 01:11:23.130
  • every feelings.
  • 01:11:23.130 --> 01:11:24.080
  • You rescued me so
  • 01:11:24.080 --> 01:11:26.100
  • I could stand and sing.
  • 01:11:26.200 --> 01:11:29.200
  • I am a child of God.
  • 01:11:31.100 --> 01:11:34.100
  • Oh-oh-oh-oh-oh.
  • 01:11:34.100 --> 01:11:36.160
  • He split the sea.
  • 01:11:36.160 --> 01:11:38.080
  • You split the sea so I could
  • 01:11:38.080 --> 01:11:40.000
  • walk right through it.
  • 01:11:40.240 --> 01:11:43.240
  • My fears are drowned
  • 01:11:43.240 --> 01:11:45.210
  • in perfect love.
  • 01:11:45.210 --> 01:11:47.070
  • Yeah.
  • 01:11:47.070 --> 01:11:50.060
  • You rescued me
  • 01:11:50.060 --> 01:11:52.060
  • so I could stand and sing
  • 01:11:52.220 --> 01:11:55.220
  • I am a child of God, oh-oh,
  • 01:11:57.000 --> 01:12:00.020
  • I am a child of God.
  • 01:12:00.020 --> 01:12:03.000
  • I am a child of God.
  • 01:12:03.260 --> 01:12:06.260
  • Call me by name,
  • 01:12:06.260 --> 01:12:08.140
  • [audience applauding]
  • 01:12:20.250 --> 01:12:23.250
  • - Leon: That is so good,
  • 01:12:23.250 --> 01:12:25.150
  • my friend.
  • 01:12:25.150 --> 01:12:26.160
  • Bless you.
  • 01:12:26.160 --> 01:12:27.030
  • Thank you so much.
  • 01:12:27.030 --> 01:12:27.270
  • - Onaje: Appreciate it.
  • 01:12:27.270 --> 01:12:29.060
  • - Leon: Wow, wasn't that good?
  • 01:12:29.060 --> 01:12:31.140
  • So good.
  • 01:12:35.060 --> 01:12:38.060
  • You know, with the few minutes
  • 01:12:38.060 --> 01:12:39.080
  • we have remaining today, I wanna
  • 01:12:39.080 --> 01:12:41.100
  • talk to you about a topic that
  • 01:12:41.100 --> 01:12:44.100
  • is changing people's lives
  • 01:12:44.100 --> 01:12:45.290
  • around the world and I believe
  • 01:12:45.290 --> 01:12:47.200
  • it's gonna become one of the
  • 01:12:47.200 --> 01:12:49.070
  • greatest moves of God in the
  • 01:12:49.070 --> 01:12:50.270
  • church.
  • 01:12:50.270 --> 01:12:52.110
  • It's a concept that we call
  • 01:12:52.110 --> 01:12:53.290
  • spirit contemporary.
  • 01:12:53.290 --> 01:12:56.130
  • You see, we need to be like
  • 01:12:56.130 --> 01:12:58.140
  • Jesus who grew in favor with God
  • 01:12:58.140 --> 01:13:01.150
  • but he also grew in favor with
  • 01:13:01.150 --> 01:13:04.080
  • man.
  • 01:13:04.080 --> 01:13:05.060
  • Today, we have so many
  • 01:13:05.060 --> 01:13:06.280
  • Christians who are working so
  • 01:13:06.280 --> 01:13:08.170
  • contemporary.
  • 01:13:11.110 --> 01:13:13.040
  • They dress just right, muss
  • 01:13:13.040 --> 01:13:14.100
  • their hair just right, got the
  • 01:13:14.100 --> 01:13:15.240
  • right holes somewhere in their
  • 01:13:15.240 --> 01:13:17.110
  • jeans.
  • 01:13:17.110 --> 01:13:18.070
  • They're wearing jeans,
  • 01:13:18.070 --> 01:13:19.080
  • every--they are the coolest,
  • 01:13:19.080 --> 01:13:22.080
  • but there's no power.
  • 01:13:22.080 --> 01:13:24.070
  • relationship with them, but if
  • 01:13:25.110 --> 01:13:27.130
  • you need a miracle, you'd better
  • 01:13:27.130 --> 01:13:28.240
  • find someone else.
  • 01:13:28.240 --> 01:13:30.090
  • Now, then there's people on the
  • 01:13:30.090 --> 01:13:31.120
  • other side and they, there's
  • 01:13:32.050 --> 01:13:35.050
  • nothing contemporary, relevant,
  • 01:13:35.050 --> 01:13:37.250
  • you wouldn't even want them to
  • 01:13:37.250 --> 01:13:39.190
  • explain Jesus to an unsaved
  • 01:13:39.190 --> 01:13:41.010
  • brother because they wouldn't
  • 01:13:41.010 --> 01:13:42.230
  • even speak the language.
  • 01:13:42.230 --> 01:13:44.090
  • But yet, they've learned to get
  • 01:13:44.090 --> 01:13:46.060
  • a hold of God in a way that if
  • 01:13:46.060 --> 01:13:48.070
  • you were ever in a hospital and
  • 01:13:48.070 --> 01:13:49.250
  • you needed a miracle, that'd be
  • 01:13:49.250 --> 01:13:51.020
  • the guy you wanted marched in
  • 01:13:51.020 --> 01:13:52.100
  • your room.
  • 01:13:53.040 --> 01:13:56.040
  • Now, what God is doing today is
  • 01:13:58.130 --> 01:14:01.150
  • he's not saying to us,
  • 01:14:01.150 --> 01:14:04.120
  • "Be one or the other."
  • 01:14:04.120 --> 01:14:06.110
  • To be spirit contemporary is to
  • 01:14:06.110 --> 01:14:08.230
  • be a believer who is
  • 01:14:08.230 --> 01:14:09.240
  • contemporary for whatever
  • 01:14:09.240 --> 01:14:11.070
  • situation you step into.
  • 01:14:11.070 --> 01:14:13.010
  • If you're in a boardroom, don't
  • 01:14:13.010 --> 01:14:14.110
  • be going up and giving a message
  • 01:14:14.110 --> 01:14:16.060
  • in tongues and an
  • 01:14:16.060 --> 01:14:17.090
  • interpretation, okay?
  • 01:14:17.090 --> 01:14:19.010
  • If you're talking to a guy on
  • 01:14:19.010 --> 01:14:20.180
  • the street, whose life is just a
  • 01:14:20.180 --> 01:14:23.130
  • mess, there's gonna be a way to
  • 01:14:23.130 --> 01:14:24.240
  • speak to him in a contemporary
  • 01:14:24.240 --> 01:14:26.250
  • way.
  • 01:14:26.250 --> 01:14:27.250
  • If you're gonna be flying in to
  • 01:14:27.250 --> 01:14:28.250
  • India and speaking with people
  • 01:14:28.250 --> 01:14:31.030
  • there, to be contemporary in
  • 01:14:31.030 --> 01:14:32.200
  • that city, you're gonna need to
  • 01:14:32.200 --> 01:14:34.030
  • develop the skills of being
  • 01:14:34.030 --> 01:14:36.080
  • contemporary there.
  • 01:14:36.080 --> 01:14:37.220
  • So to become contemporary,
  • 01:14:37.220 --> 01:14:38.280
  • relevant, to speak the language
  • 01:14:38.280 --> 01:14:41.130
  • in a way that the person you're
  • 01:14:41.130 --> 01:14:42.270
  • speaking to understands and gets
  • 01:14:42.270 --> 01:14:45.190
  • it, it's not about what you're
  • 01:14:45.190 --> 01:14:47.020
  • saying, it's about what he's
  • 01:14:47.070 --> 01:14:50.070
  • hearing.
  • 01:14:50.070 --> 01:14:51.110
  • That's the problem with
  • 01:14:51.110 --> 01:14:52.080
  • Christians.
  • 01:14:52.080 --> 01:14:53.080
  • We've gotta get this figured
  • 01:14:53.080 --> 01:14:54.050
  • out.
  • 01:14:54.050 --> 01:14:54.220
  • Now, I do a lot of training with
  • 01:14:56.000 --> 01:14:59.000
  • pastors and leaders on this
  • 01:14:59.000 --> 01:15:00.160
  • issue of what is contemporary,
  • 01:15:00.160 --> 01:15:02.220
  • 'cause it's not compromise and
  • 01:15:02.220 --> 01:15:03.290
  • we need to be able to
  • 01:15:03.290 --> 01:15:06.010
  • communicate but today, for the
  • 01:15:06.010 --> 01:15:07.290
  • few minutes, I wanna talk about
  • 01:15:07.290 --> 01:15:09.100
  • being spiritual.
  • 01:15:09.100 --> 01:15:11.090
  • Because so many of us think that
  • 01:15:11.090 --> 01:15:13.180
  • being spiritual is to be weird.
  • 01:15:13.180 --> 01:15:15.220
  • Or the more spiritual you are,
  • 01:15:15.240 --> 01:15:18.240
  • the more odd that you look.
  • 01:15:18.260 --> 01:15:21.260
  • Yet, when you look at Jesus,
  • 01:15:21.260 --> 01:15:23.130
  • he was none of the above.
  • 01:15:23.130 --> 01:15:26.020
  • Walked, talked, ate, drank,
  • 01:15:26.020 --> 01:15:28.100
  • laughed with kids, everywhere he
  • 01:15:28.100 --> 01:15:30.020
  • went people flocked him down
  • 01:15:30.020 --> 01:15:31.130
  • just to be around him.
  • 01:15:31.130 --> 01:15:33.250
  • This was the coolest, most
  • 01:15:33.250 --> 01:15:34.200
  • relevant.
  • 01:15:34.200 --> 01:15:35.140
  • We need to bring the cool back
  • 01:15:35.140 --> 01:15:36.260
  • to Jesus but not at the cost of
  • 01:15:36.260 --> 01:15:38.100
  • compromise or power.
  • 01:15:38.100 --> 01:15:40.260
  • Now, think about this.
  • 01:15:40.260 --> 01:15:42.170
  • The disciples were trained by
  • 01:15:42.170 --> 01:15:44.190
  • Jesus for more than 3 years.
  • 01:15:44.290 --> 01:15:47.290
  • Now you would think that me, as
  • 01:15:47.290 --> 01:15:49.280
  • a pastor, if I had any hope of
  • 01:15:49.280 --> 01:15:51.060
  • doing something with our
  • 01:15:51.060 --> 01:15:54.050
  • churches, you know, I wanna
  • 01:15:54.050 --> 01:15:55.250
  • train them but if Jesus spent
  • 01:15:55.250 --> 01:15:58.040
  • 3-1/2 years training 12 men he
  • 01:15:58.250 --> 01:16:01.270
  • hand-picked, 1 of them turned on
  • 01:16:01.270 --> 01:16:04.140
  • him, 10 of them didn't know who
  • 01:16:04.140 --> 01:16:06.220
  • he was, 1 of them got it.
  • 01:16:07.180 --> 01:16:10.180
  • When he died, they all left him.
  • 01:16:12.010 --> 01:16:15.010
  • Where were the 11?
  • 01:16:15.010 --> 01:16:17.150
  • Where were the 70 that he
  • 01:16:17.150 --> 01:16:18.230
  • trained and sent out?
  • 01:16:18.230 --> 01:16:20.160
  • Where were the 500?
  • 01:16:20.160 --> 01:16:22.170
  • Where was the lady whose son was
  • 01:16:22.170 --> 01:16:24.020
  • raised from the dead?
  • 01:16:24.020 --> 01:16:25.140
  • Where was the man whose boy was
  • 01:16:25.140 --> 01:16:27.090
  • delivered from that evil spirit
  • 01:16:27.090 --> 01:16:29.030
  • who was trying to kill himself
  • 01:16:29.030 --> 01:16:30.160
  • daily?
  • 01:16:30.160 --> 01:16:31.120
  • Of all the miracles and the
  • 01:16:31.120 --> 01:16:32.240
  • things that Jesus taught and the
  • 01:16:32.240 --> 01:16:34.100
  • things that Jesus did, he died
  • 01:16:34.100 --> 01:16:36.190
  • alone.
  • 01:16:36.190 --> 01:16:37.200
  • And it just makes you wonder, it
  • 01:16:37.200 --> 01:16:40.010
  • makes you--can we train and
  • 01:16:40.010 --> 01:16:42.140
  • teach people enough to be this
  • 01:16:42.140 --> 01:16:45.020
  • spirit contemporary Christian?
  • 01:16:45.020 --> 01:16:48.000
  • And the answer is, "No."
  • 01:16:48.000 --> 01:16:49.220
  • If Jesus Christ himself, the Son
  • 01:16:49.220 --> 01:16:52.160
  • of God, Emmanuel, God with us,
  • 01:16:52.160 --> 01:16:55.050
  • couldn't equip them in 3-1/2
  • 01:16:55.050 --> 01:16:57.110
  • years, and he's the one that
  • 01:16:57.110 --> 01:16:59.160
  • said in John, he said, "It's
  • 01:16:59.160 --> 01:17:02.020
  • better if I go."
  • 01:17:02.020 --> 01:17:04.090
  • When you read the chapter John
  • 01:17:04.090 --> 01:17:06.080
  • 14, he's telling us, "It's
  • 01:17:06.080 --> 01:17:07.030
  • better if I go."
  • 01:17:07.030 --> 01:17:08.240
  • It seems like Jesus in his
  • 01:17:08.240 --> 01:17:09.260
  • physical body couldn't stay on
  • 01:17:09.260 --> 01:17:12.180
  • the earth at the same time as
  • 01:17:12.180 --> 01:17:14.180
  • the Holy Spirit being released
  • 01:17:14.180 --> 01:17:16.150
  • in that special way.
  • 01:17:16.150 --> 01:17:17.260
  • So as Jesus went, Holy Spirit
  • 01:17:18.060 --> 01:17:21.060
  • was released.
  • 01:17:21.060 --> 01:17:22.260
  • Now, here's what's interesting
  • 01:17:22.260 --> 01:17:23.220
  • to me.
  • 01:17:23.220 --> 01:17:25.020
  • Jesus--it was discouraging when
  • 01:17:25.020 --> 01:17:26.180
  • I began to study how Jesus
  • 01:17:26.180 --> 01:17:27.290
  • trained the disciples.
  • 01:17:27.290 --> 01:17:29.070
  • It's an interesting study.
  • 01:17:29.070 --> 01:17:30.100
  • 'Cause I wanted to see
  • 01:17:30.100 --> 01:17:31.140
  • the power of God.
  • 01:17:31.140 --> 01:17:32.200
  • I wanted to truly sense
  • 01:17:32.200 --> 01:17:34.070
  • Holy Spirit, know, hear him,
  • 01:17:34.070 --> 01:17:36.270
  • sense him.
  • 01:17:36.270 --> 01:17:37.240
  • I wanted to pray with people in
  • 01:17:37.240 --> 01:17:39.050
  • a cool way and see his power
  • 01:17:39.050 --> 01:17:41.010
  • released into people.
  • 01:17:41.010 --> 01:17:42.230
  • But every time I looked at these
  • 01:17:42.230 --> 01:17:44.130
  • disciples, I just thought--I
  • 01:17:44.130 --> 01:17:45.240
  • didn't really call them losers
  • 01:17:45.240 --> 01:17:47.000
  • but I just thought, "They're
  • 01:17:47.000 --> 01:17:48.190
  • just--they're normal people like
  • 01:17:48.190 --> 01:17:50.110
  • you and I."
  • 01:17:50.110 --> 01:17:51.190
  • You know, we don't measure up.
  • 01:17:51.190 --> 01:17:53.120
  • None of us are perfect.
  • 01:17:53.120 --> 01:17:54.090
  • You know, if we have to have it
  • 01:17:54.090 --> 01:17:56.140
  • all together before God uses us,
  • 01:17:56.140 --> 01:17:57.250
  • you know, the love chapter is
  • 01:17:57.250 --> 01:17:59.170
  • how to love imperfect people
  • 01:17:59.170 --> 01:18:01.060
  • because all of us are and is.
  • 01:18:01.060 --> 01:18:03.290
  • We're not.
  • 01:18:03.290 --> 01:18:05.170
  • But yet, Holy Spirit came and
  • 01:18:05.170 --> 01:18:07.230
  • Jesus said there in John as
  • 01:18:07.230 --> 01:18:09.230
  • well, that "you're gonna do what
  • 01:18:09.230 --> 01:18:11.000
  • I do."
  • 01:18:11.000 --> 01:18:11.240
  • He said Holy Spirit comes.
  • 01:18:11.240 --> 01:18:13.200
  • He's gonna be within you.
  • 01:18:13.200 --> 01:18:15.070
  • And he's gonna teach you things.
  • 01:18:15.070 --> 01:18:17.270
  • He's gonna show you things
  • 01:18:17.270 --> 01:18:20.010
  • to come.
  • 01:18:20.010 --> 01:18:21.160
  • As a young man, I began this
  • 01:18:21.160 --> 01:18:23.270
  • journey as a pastor's kid, a
  • 01:18:23.270 --> 01:18:26.090
  • precious mom and dad who've
  • 01:18:26.090 --> 01:18:27.200
  • taught me the Word, taught me
  • 01:18:27.200 --> 01:18:29.060
  • how to get miracles in church.
  • 01:18:29.060 --> 01:18:30.190
  • We loved having beautiful music
  • 01:18:30.190 --> 01:18:32.250
  • played and we were a typical
  • 01:18:32.250 --> 01:18:34.070
  • full gospel, real great
  • 01:18:34.070 --> 01:18:35.250
  • Pentecostal church.
  • 01:18:35.250 --> 01:18:38.050
  • And every service would end with
  • 01:18:38.050 --> 01:18:39.140
  • us worshiping God like we did
  • 01:18:39.140 --> 01:18:41.250
  • today with this great musician,
  • 01:18:41.250 --> 01:18:43.160
  • Onaje.
  • 01:18:43.160 --> 01:18:44.150
  • And then we would ask people to
  • 01:18:44.150 --> 01:18:46.010
  • come forward for prayer.
  • 01:18:46.010 --> 01:18:47.100
  • We would lay hands on them and I
  • 01:18:47.100 --> 01:18:49.220
  • would see people healed, hearing
  • 01:18:49.220 --> 01:18:52.040
  • come back, growths disappear.
  • 01:18:52.040 --> 01:18:54.020
  • Doctors' tests proving
  • 01:18:54.020 --> 01:18:56.100
  • the miraculous.
  • 01:18:56.100 --> 01:18:57.110
  • But something took place in my
  • 01:18:57.110 --> 01:18:58.260
  • life that put me on a journey
  • 01:18:58.260 --> 01:19:00.250
  • that I'd never been on before.
  • 01:19:00.250 --> 01:19:02.170
  • I became a paramedic.
  • 01:19:02.170 --> 01:19:04.040
  • And as I begin to go into the
  • 01:19:04.040 --> 01:19:07.010
  • ditches of overturned cars, into
  • 01:19:07.010 --> 01:19:09.180
  • the places of people hurting and
  • 01:19:09.180 --> 01:19:12.050
  • dying, I would think, "God, I
  • 01:19:12.190 --> 01:19:15.190
  • need your presence here but
  • 01:19:15.190 --> 01:19:16.210
  • there's no choir to sing, 'He
  • 01:19:16.210 --> 01:19:18.240
  • Touched Me,' for me.
  • 01:19:18.240 --> 01:19:20.170
  • There's no beautiful organ music
  • 01:19:20.170 --> 01:19:23.060
  • to keep the anointing flowing.
  • 01:19:23.060 --> 01:19:25.190
  • control everything.
  • 01:19:28.020 --> 01:19:29.060
  • It's an automobile accident with
  • 01:19:29.060 --> 01:19:30.270
  • a crying mom, one dead child,
  • 01:19:31.020 --> 01:19:34.020
  • and one dying."
  • 01:19:34.020 --> 01:19:35.210
  • If some people think the
  • 01:19:35.210 --> 01:19:37.090
  • anointing is so fragile that,
  • 01:19:37.090 --> 01:19:38.180
  • you know, you don't touch the
  • 01:19:38.180 --> 01:19:40.030
  • anointed man of God, you know,
  • 01:19:40.030 --> 01:19:40.290
  • because the anointing might just
  • 01:19:43.150 --> 01:19:45.010
  • leave.
  • 01:19:45.010 --> 01:19:46.150
  • But then talk to our first
  • 01:19:46.150 --> 01:19:48.050
  • responders who are police and
  • 01:19:48.050 --> 01:19:49.220
  • fire, doctors, nurses,
  • 01:19:49.220 --> 01:19:52.000
  • ambulances, and if they are
  • 01:19:52.000 --> 01:19:53.230
  • allowed to use the power of God,
  • 01:19:53.230 --> 01:19:56.120
  • and it's not for the pastors.
  • 01:19:56.120 --> 01:19:58.000
  • Pastors are the coaches.
  • 01:19:58.000 --> 01:20:00.160
  • You don't go to a game to
  • 01:20:00.160 --> 01:20:01.280
  • watch the coach.
  • 01:20:01.280 --> 01:20:03.210
  • He equips the saints for
  • 01:20:03.210 --> 01:20:05.180
  • the work of the ministry.
  • 01:20:05.180 --> 01:20:07.240
  • The clergy-laity gap is so big
  • 01:20:07.240 --> 01:20:09.240
  • today that you have to go to a
  • 01:20:09.240 --> 01:20:11.120
  • special meeting with a special
  • 01:20:11.120 --> 01:20:12.290
  • anointed man of God
  • 01:20:12.290 --> 01:20:14.070
  • to get a miracle.
  • 01:20:14.070 --> 01:20:16.110
  • But yet, the Bible does not say
  • 01:20:16.110 --> 01:20:17.150
  • that.
  • 01:20:17.150 --> 01:20:18.110
  • It does not say when Jesus said,
  • 01:20:18.110 --> 01:20:20.140
  • "It's better for me to go
  • 01:20:20.140 --> 01:20:21.250
  • because you're gonna do
  • 01:20:21.250 --> 01:20:22.270
  • what I do, pastors."
  • 01:20:22.270 --> 01:20:24.120
  • No, he said to us as believers,
  • 01:20:24.120 --> 01:20:27.110
  • "The fivefold ministry are to
  • 01:20:27.110 --> 01:20:29.060
  • equip the saints for the work of
  • 01:20:29.060 --> 01:20:30.240
  • the ministry."
  • 01:20:30.240 --> 01:20:33.000
  • I wanna challenge everyone who's
  • 01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:34.140
  • watching today and I want you to
  • 01:20:34.140 --> 01:20:36.130
  • understand that if we do not
  • 01:20:36.130 --> 01:20:38.170
  • change the way we do
  • 01:20:38.170 --> 01:20:40.110
  • Christianity, where we raise up
  • 01:20:40.110 --> 01:20:43.000
  • our own heroes, and they are the
  • 01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:45.070
  • healers, the man who's gonna
  • 01:20:45.070 --> 01:20:47.070
  • give me a word from God, the
  • 01:20:47.070 --> 01:20:48.290
  • woman who's gonna do this for my
  • 01:20:48.290 --> 01:20:50.020
  • life.
  • 01:20:50.020 --> 01:20:51.010
  • We have literally gone backwards
  • 01:20:51.010 --> 01:20:52.290
  • from the direction that Jesus
  • 01:20:52.290 --> 01:20:54.200
  • has taken us to.
  • 01:20:54.200 --> 01:20:56.020
  • He said you are kings and you
  • 01:20:56.020 --> 01:20:57.190
  • can learn to run and rule and
  • 01:20:57.190 --> 01:20:59.150
  • reign with him.
  • 01:20:59.150 --> 01:21:01.100
  • You are priests.
  • 01:21:01.100 --> 01:21:02.250
  • You can hear from God for
  • 01:21:02.250 --> 01:21:04.060
  • yourself.
  • 01:21:04.060 --> 01:21:05.230
  • We think, "Well,
  • 01:21:05.230 --> 01:21:07.040
  • I'm not a prophet."
  • 01:21:07.040 --> 01:21:07.290
  • You're wrong.
  • 01:21:08.050 --> 01:21:11.050
  • There's a huge difference
  • 01:21:11.050 --> 01:21:13.200
  • between an Old Testament prophet
  • 01:21:13.200 --> 01:21:15.120
  • who gave people direction and a
  • 01:21:15.120 --> 01:21:17.090
  • New Testament prophet who is one
  • 01:21:17.090 --> 01:21:19.000
  • of the fivefold and ministers to
  • 01:21:19.000 --> 01:21:21.020
  • people who all hear from God.
  • 01:21:21.020 --> 01:21:23.280
  • Because everyone--it says,
  • 01:21:23.280 --> 01:21:25.100
  • "My sheep know my voice."
  • 01:21:25.100 --> 01:21:27.140
  • It says that we sense him on the
  • 01:21:27.140 --> 01:21:28.290
  • inside.
  • 01:21:28.290 --> 01:21:30.080
  • There is gonna be an explosion
  • 01:21:30.080 --> 01:21:32.010
  • of people just simply
  • 01:21:32.010 --> 01:21:34.230
  • recognizing, I don't need to see
  • 01:21:34.230 --> 01:21:36.110
  • angels walking up and down
  • 01:21:36.110 --> 01:21:37.160
  • ladders.
  • 01:21:37.160 --> 01:21:38.140
  • I don't need to hear them sing
  • 01:21:38.140 --> 01:21:39.190
  • the hallelujah chorus.
  • 01:21:39.190 --> 01:21:40.190
  • I don't need 7 years of
  • 01:21:40.190 --> 01:21:42.120
  • seminary--or cemetery.
  • 01:21:42.120 --> 01:21:44.080
  • I don't need to have titles and
  • 01:21:44.080 --> 01:21:45.260
  • I don't need--no, putting the
  • 01:21:45.260 --> 01:21:47.210
  • word Bishop Tutankhamun on my
  • 01:21:47.210 --> 01:21:50.080
  • door doesn't change anything in
  • 01:21:50.080 --> 01:21:51.220
  • my actual ministry.
  • 01:21:51.220 --> 01:21:54.020
  • But if I can learn to quietly
  • 01:21:54.220 --> 01:21:57.220
  • sense and know Holy Spirit.
  • 01:21:57.220 --> 01:22:00.130
  • When you walk into a restaurant,
  • 01:22:00.130 --> 01:22:02.040
  • if someone just stands out to
  • 01:22:02.040 --> 01:22:03.180
  • you, just walk across the room.
  • 01:22:03.180 --> 01:22:05.140
  • You don't need to hear his name,
  • 01:22:05.140 --> 01:22:07.100
  • his address, and all these
  • 01:22:07.100 --> 01:22:08.170
  • things.
  • 01:22:08.170 --> 01:22:09.150
  • Let Holy Spirit just nudge you
  • 01:22:09.150 --> 01:22:11.050
  • in a direction.
  • 01:22:11.050 --> 01:22:13.110
  • I've begun to do that years ago
  • 01:22:13.110 --> 01:22:14.190
  • and I begin to see so many
  • 01:22:14.190 --> 01:22:15.290
  • miracles in my life.
  • 01:22:15.290 --> 01:22:17.210
  • As I would meet someone and just
  • 01:22:17.210 --> 01:22:19.140
  • look at 'em and say, "Hey, I'm
  • 01:22:19.140 --> 01:22:20.090
  • alone for a coffee.
  • 01:22:20.090 --> 01:22:21.230
  • Do you mind if I join you?"
  • 01:22:21.230 --> 01:22:22.280
  • Because he just stood out to me.
  • 01:22:22.280 --> 01:22:24.090
  • Someone ever stood out to you
  • 01:22:24.090 --> 01:22:25.030
  • sometimes?
  • 01:22:25.030 --> 01:22:26.030
  • You know, that's Holy Spirit
  • 01:22:26.030 --> 01:22:27.020
  • nudging you?
  • 01:22:27.020 --> 01:22:28.040
  • If we could ramp down the
  • 01:22:28.040 --> 01:22:30.100
  • rhetoric of the crazy
  • 01:22:30.100 --> 01:22:32.120
  • Hollywoodness of the gifts in
  • 01:22:32.120 --> 01:22:33.290
  • operation and recognize there's
  • 01:22:33.290 --> 01:22:35.280
  • a sensing and a knowing in here,
  • 01:22:35.280 --> 01:22:38.030
  • he'll guide you with your
  • 01:22:38.030 --> 01:22:39.180
  • business--who to hire, who not
  • 01:22:39.180 --> 01:22:41.050
  • to hire.
  • 01:22:41.050 --> 01:22:42.030
  • He will guide you with your
  • 01:22:42.030 --> 01:22:43.050
  • kids.
  • 01:22:43.050 --> 01:22:44.150
  • My mama would know which of my
  • 01:22:44.150 --> 01:22:45.180
  • brothers brought in dope and
  • 01:22:45.180 --> 01:22:47.180
  • exactly the drawer it was in.
  • 01:22:47.180 --> 01:22:49.120
  • And she'd walk to it, pull it
  • 01:22:49.120 --> 01:22:50.240
  • out, and flush it, while my
  • 01:22:50.240 --> 01:22:51.250
  • brother watched as God gave her
  • 01:22:51.250 --> 01:22:53.070
  • a word of knowledge so she knew.
  • 01:22:53.070 --> 01:22:55.000
  • Lots of moms will tell me that
  • 01:22:55.000 --> 01:22:56.180
  • they sensed God when their kids
  • 01:22:56.180 --> 01:22:59.010
  • were in trouble.
  • 01:23:01.120 --> 01:23:04.120
  • I want you to simply pray this
  • 01:23:04.120 --> 01:23:05.290
  • prayer every day as we close
  • 01:23:05.290 --> 01:23:08.180
  • today.
  • 01:23:08.180 --> 01:23:09.210
  • And that as the Bible says, to
  • 01:23:09.210 --> 01:23:11.100
  • pursue love but desire earnestly
  • 01:23:13.070 --> 01:23:16.070
  • the spiritual gifts.
  • 01:23:16.070 --> 01:23:18.140
  • Why don't you start today, every
  • 01:23:18.140 --> 01:23:19.230
  • night, every morning, and just
  • 01:23:19.230 --> 01:23:21.160
  • say, "God, I'm not gonna pursue
  • 01:23:21.160 --> 01:23:23.030
  • gifts so I can be somebody
  • 01:23:23.030 --> 01:23:24.160
  • amazing."
  • 01:23:24.160 --> 01:23:25.250
  • No, no, no, we pursue love, as
  • 01:23:25.250 --> 01:23:27.190
  • it says in 1 Corinthians 14.
  • 01:23:27.190 --> 01:23:28.290
  • But then why don't you just let
  • 01:23:28.290 --> 01:23:31.120
  • him know every day, "I desire
  • 01:23:31.120 --> 01:23:32.100
  • for Holy Spirit to use me to
  • 01:23:32.100 --> 01:23:34.170
  • touch others."
  • 01:23:34.170 --> 01:23:35.220
  • Just ask him, every morning,
  • 01:23:35.220 --> 01:23:37.170
  • every night, "God, is there
  • 01:23:37.170 --> 01:23:38.070
  • anything I can do for you
  • 01:23:38.070 --> 01:23:39.200
  • today?"
  • 01:23:39.200 --> 01:23:41.140
  • Just ask it, I dare you.
  • 01:23:41.140 --> 01:23:42.140
  • I dare you every time you pray,
  • 01:23:42.140 --> 01:23:44.210
  • yes, speak to your mountains.
  • 01:23:44.210 --> 01:23:46.270
  • Yes, believe God for the things
  • 01:23:46.270 --> 01:23:48.230
  • that you need in your world, but
  • 01:23:48.230 --> 01:23:50.140
  • somewhere in your prayer time,
  • 01:23:50.140 --> 01:23:52.160
  • somewhere in your study time,
  • 01:23:52.160 --> 01:23:54.040
  • I'm challenging the body of
  • 01:23:54.040 --> 01:23:55.180
  • Christ to pray this simple
  • 01:23:55.180 --> 01:23:57.140
  • prayer, "God, what can I do for
  • 01:23:58.150 --> 01:24:01.170
  • you?"
  • 01:24:01.170 --> 01:24:03.050
  • It will heighten your awareness.
  • 01:24:03.050 --> 01:24:04.260
  • It'll make your Spidey senses
  • 01:24:04.260 --> 01:24:07.060
  • tingle.
  • 01:24:07.060 --> 01:24:08.020
  • It'll begin to make your antenna
  • 01:24:08.020 --> 01:24:09.200
  • in your satellite dish this big.
  • 01:24:09.200 --> 01:24:12.090
  • It'll cause you to walk into a
  • 01:24:13.180 --> 01:24:16.180
  • situation--you'd walk down the
  • 01:24:16.180 --> 01:24:17.280
  • street and someone just stand
  • 01:24:17.280 --> 01:24:19.060
  • out to you.
  • 01:24:19.060 --> 01:24:20.030
  • And all you'll do is walk over
  • 01:24:20.030 --> 01:24:21.010
  • and say, "Hey, how you doing
  • 01:24:21.010 --> 01:24:22.180
  • today?
  • 01:24:22.180 --> 01:24:23.230
  • Great day."
  • 01:24:23.230 --> 01:24:24.140
  • And all of a sudden, you'll know
  • 01:24:24.140 --> 01:24:25.150
  • what to say because when you
  • 01:24:25.150 --> 01:24:27.060
  • open your mouth he'll fill it.
  • 01:24:27.060 --> 01:24:28.250
  • And you will enter a zone of
  • 01:24:28.250 --> 01:24:30.150
  • miracles and signs and wonders
  • 01:24:30.150 --> 01:24:32.220
  • that'll start so beautifully,
  • 01:24:32.220 --> 01:24:34.260
  • so simply.
  • 01:24:34.260 --> 01:24:36.020
  • And people's needs will be met.
  • 01:24:36.020 --> 01:24:38.200
  • You don't need to be perfect.
  • 01:24:38.200 --> 01:24:40.040
  • You don't need to have
  • 01:24:40.040 --> 01:24:41.060
  • a flawless pedigree.
  • 01:24:41.060 --> 01:24:42.290
  • You don't have to have
  • 01:24:42.290 --> 01:24:44.040
  • everything figured out,
  • 01:24:44.040 --> 01:24:45.020
  • et cetera.
  • 01:24:45.020 --> 01:24:47.100
  • Just trust.
  • 01:24:47.100 --> 01:24:48.260
  • If God can use whatever he
  • 01:24:48.260 --> 01:24:50.020
  • wants, he wants to use me.
  • 01:24:50.020 --> 01:24:52.040
  • He wants to use you.
  • 01:24:52.040 --> 01:24:55.020
  • If you don't know Jesus as your
  • 01:24:55.020 --> 01:24:57.070
  • Savior, today just say, "Wow,
  • 01:24:57.070 --> 01:24:59.250
  • he sounds too good to be true."
  • 01:24:59.250 --> 01:25:01.250
  • Just tell him, "Jesus,
  • 01:25:01.250 --> 01:25:03.010
  • I give you my life.
  • 01:25:03.010 --> 01:25:04.090
  • Come into my heart,"
  • 01:25:04.090 --> 01:25:05.180
  • and the Holy Spirit,
  • 01:25:05.180 --> 01:25:07.050
  • the presence of God,
  • 01:25:07.050 --> 01:25:08.120
  • will guide you and love you.
  • 01:25:08.120 --> 01:25:10.160
  • We love you.
  • 01:25:10.160 --> 01:25:11.270
  • We love here at TBN.
  • 01:25:11.270 --> 01:25:13.070
  • God bless you.
  • 01:25:13.070 --> 01:25:13.290
  • [audience applauding]
  • 01:25:18.060 --> 01:25:20.140
  • - announcer: We're so glad
  • 01:25:20.140 --> 01:25:21.050
  • you've been with us
  • 01:25:21.050 --> 01:25:22.040
  • for "Praise The Lord."
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  • TBN has a worldwide ministry.
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  • We need your love gifts,
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  • large or small, to help keep
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  • the Gospel of Jesus Christ
  • 01:25:28.150 --> 01:25:29.220
  • going around the world.
  • 01:25:29.220 --> 01:25:31.030
  • So write today, Praise The Lord,
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  • P.O. Box A,
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  • Santa Ana, California 92711.
  • 01:25:34.240 --> 01:25:37.240
  • If you haven't asked Christ into
  • 01:25:37.240 --> 01:25:39.100
  • your life, call a prayer partner
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  • now and pray to receive Jesus
  • 01:25:41.100 --> 01:25:43.040
  • as Savior and Lord.
  • 01:25:43.040 --> 01:25:45.010
  • Now until next time,
  • 01:25:45.010 --> 01:25:46.080
  • [music]
  • 01:25:50.080 --> 01:25:52.270
  • Praise...
  • 01:25:55.030 --> 01:25:58.030
  • Praise the Lord!
  • 01:26:00.160 --> 01:26:03.160
  • - announcer: This program
  • 01:26:07.240 --> 01:26:08.240
  • has been brought to you through
  • 01:26:08.240 --> 01:26:10.020
  • the prayers and contributions of
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  • our faithful partners throughout
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