Pastors Under Fire | TBN

Pastors Under Fire

Watch Pastors Under Fire
February 5, 2021
51:59

Join host Tom Newman and guest pastors as they discuss today's challenges to religious freedom in America.

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Pastors Under Fire

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  • - TOM NEWMAN: IF I TOLD YOUCHRISTIANS ARE BEING
  • 00:00:00.090 --> 00:00:01.491
  • PERSECUTED FOR HOLDING ACHURCH SERVICE, YOU MAY
  • 00:00:01.491 --> 00:00:04.394
  • THINK THAT IS ONLYHAPPENING IN COMMUNIST
  • 00:00:04.394 --> 00:00:06.629
  • COUNTRIES OR COUNTRIESTHOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY.
  • 00:00:06.629 --> 00:00:10.066
  • BUT IF I TELL YOUCHRISTIANS ARE BEING
  • 00:00:10.066 --> 00:00:11.935
  • PERSECUTED RIGHT HERE INAMERICA, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?
  • 00:00:11.935 --> 00:00:16.439
  • - CHURCHES FIGHT FOR THEIRFREEDOM TO WORSHIP, AND THEN --
  • 00:00:16.439 --> 00:00:19.609
  • - WE CAN'T MEET. WE CAN'TWORSHIP.
  • 00:00:19.609 --> 00:00:20.910
  • WE CAN'T SING.
  • 00:00:20.910 --> 00:00:22.545
  • THERE'S NO POWER GIVEN TOTHE GOVERNMENT --
  • 00:00:22.545 --> 00:00:24.647
  • - --THE CHURCH, AND WHEN THECHURCHES ARE CLOSED AND
  • 00:00:24.647 --> 00:00:29.152
  • THE LIGHTS ARE OFF, THECOMMUNITY GROANS IN
  • 00:00:29.152 --> 00:00:31.754
  • ITS ABSENCE.
  • 00:00:31.754 --> 00:00:33.957
  • - FOR OVER SIX MONTHS,IT HAS BEEN ILLEGAL FOR
  • 00:00:34.991 --> 00:00:37.227
  • 99.9% OF CALIFORNIANSTO WORSHIP IN CHURCH, AND
  • 00:00:37.227 --> 00:00:41.397
  • THE STATE IS TAKINGENFORCEMENT SERIOUSLY.
  • 00:00:41.397 --> 00:00:44.634
  • A LITTLE OVER A WEEKAGO, A PASTOR WAS HAULED
  • 00:00:44.634 --> 00:00:48.438
  • BEFORE A COURT TO FACECONTEMPT FOR REFUSING TO
  • 00:00:48.438 --> 00:00:51.174
  • CLOSE HIS CHURCHBECAUSE OF THE COVID 19
  • 00:00:51.174 --> 00:00:53.710
  • RESTRICTIONS THEGOVERNMENT HAS PLACED ON
  • 00:00:53.710 --> 00:00:56.813
  • THAT STATE ALONE.
  • 00:00:56.813 --> 00:00:58.381
  • THE PERSECUTION IS REALAND IT'S NOT JUST
  • 00:00:58.381 --> 00:01:01.151
  • IN CALIFORNIA.
  • 00:01:01.151 --> 00:01:02.452
  • AT THE TIME OF THISTAPING, ILLINOIS, NEW
  • 00:01:02.452 --> 00:01:04.954
  • YORK, AND MANY OTHERSTATES HAVE PROHIBITED
  • 00:01:04.954 --> 00:01:07.257
  • RELIGIOUS GATHERINGSCOMPLETELY IMPOSING
  • 00:01:07.257 --> 00:01:10.193
  • STRICT FINES ANDPOTENTIAL JAIL TIME ON
  • 00:01:10.193 --> 00:01:13.463
  • THOSE WHO VIOLATETHEIR ORDERS.
  • 00:01:13.463 --> 00:01:15.932
  • NO PASTOR OR PERSON INAMERICA SHOULD BE FORCED
  • 00:01:15.932 --> 00:01:19.235
  • TO CHOOSE BETWEENWORSHIP OR PRISON.
  • 00:01:19.235 --> 00:01:22.372
  • IN THE 1980'S, IWITNESSED A PERSECUTED
  • 00:01:22.372 --> 00:01:25.475
  • CHURCH IN SOVIET RUSSIA.
  • 00:01:25.475 --> 00:01:26.743
  • WE'VE ALL HEARD THESTORIES OF MALTREATMENT
  • 00:01:26.743 --> 00:01:29.012
  • OF CHRISTIANS IN ASIAAND THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT
  • 00:01:29.012 --> 00:01:31.414
  • TODAY THERE ARE PLACESHERE IN AMERICA WHERE YOU
  • 00:01:31.414 --> 00:01:34.517
  • CAN BE HELD IN JAILINDEFINITELY FOR REFUSING
  • 00:01:34.517 --> 00:01:37.921
  • TO CLOSE YOUR CHURCH DOORS.
  • 00:01:37.921 --> 00:01:39.923
  • OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS,TBN HAS BECOME ACUTELY
  • 00:01:39.923 --> 00:01:43.393
  • AWARE OF THE EFFORTS OFTHE LEGAL TEAM AT
  • 00:01:43.393 --> 00:01:46.596
  • LIBERTY COUNSEL.
  • 00:01:46.596 --> 00:01:47.897
  • FOR OVER 30 YEARS THEYHAVE WORKED IN DEFENSE OF
  • 00:01:47.897 --> 00:01:49.933
  • RELIGIOUS LIBERTY,
  • 00:01:49.933 --> 00:01:51.134
  • PRO-LIFE GROUPS ANDPRO-FAMILY ORGANIZATIONS.
  • 00:01:51.134 --> 00:01:53.803
  • IN FACT, I MET MATSTAVER BECAUSE OF THE
  • 00:01:53.803 --> 00:01:56.573
  • TREMENDOUS WORK HE HASDONE FOR THE NATION
  • 00:01:56.573 --> 00:01:58.641
  • OF ISRAEL.
  • 00:01:58.641 --> 00:02:00.276
  • THE LIBERTY COUNSELLEGAL TEAM IS CURRENTLY
  • 00:02:00.276 --> 00:02:02.478
  • FIGHTING BATTLES ACROSSTHE UNITED STATES SO THAT
  • 00:02:02.478 --> 00:02:05.748
  • CHURCHES CAN GATHER ANDYOU CAN PRACTICE YOUR
  • 00:02:05.748 --> 00:02:09.118
  • RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
  • 00:02:09.118 --> 00:02:10.420
  • TONIGHT MAT STAVER, THEFOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN OF
  • 00:02:10.420 --> 00:02:13.189
  • LIBERTY COUNSEL JOINS ME.
  • 00:02:13.189 --> 00:02:14.724
  • MAT, WHAT IS GOINGON WITH CHURCHES ACROSS
  • 00:02:14.724 --> 00:02:17.260
  • AMERICA RIGHT NOW?
  • 00:02:17.260 --> 00:02:18.895
  • - YOU KNOW, WHATYOU JUST SAID ABOUT
  • 00:02:18.895 --> 00:02:20.530
  • PERSECUTION, PEOPLE THINKMAYBE THAT'S AN
  • 00:02:20.530 --> 00:02:22.298
  • OVER EXAGGERATION.
  • 00:02:22.298 --> 00:02:24.000
  • BUT LET ME ASK THISQUESTION: IF PASTORS ARE
  • 00:02:24.000 --> 00:02:27.537
  • GOING TO JAIL, AND WE'VEREPRESENTED SOME PASTORS
  • 00:02:27.537 --> 00:02:29.772
  • WHO HAVE GONE TO JAIL FOROPENING THEIR CHURCHES OR
  • 00:02:29.772 --> 00:02:32.408
  • THREATENED WITH A YEAR INPRISON OR DAILY FINES FOR
  • 00:02:32.408 --> 00:02:36.279
  • SIMPLY WORSHIPPINGTOGETHER WITH EVEN MORE
  • 00:02:36.279 --> 00:02:39.082
  • THAN ONE PERSON IN THECHURCH, IF THAT'S NOT
  • 00:02:39.082 --> 00:02:41.417
  • PERSECUTION THEN WHAT IS?
  • 00:02:41.417 --> 00:02:43.319
  • IT'S NOT JUSTDISCRIMINATION.
  • 00:02:43.319 --> 00:02:45.121
  • IT'S GONE BEYONDDISCRIMINATION --
  • 00:02:45.121 --> 00:02:46.489
  • - WOW.
  • 00:02:46.489 --> 00:02:47.857
  • - TO STRAIGHTOUT PERSECUTION.
  • 00:02:47.857 --> 00:02:49.325
  • - CAN YOU HELP OURVIEWERS UNDERSTAND THEIR
  • 00:02:49.325 --> 00:02:52.028
  • RIGHT TO WORSHIP UNDERTHE CONSTITUTION?
  • 00:02:52.028 --> 00:02:54.097
  • - WELL, FIRST OF ALL,YOU HAVE THE FIRST
  • 00:02:54.097 --> 00:02:55.999
  • AMENDMENT, AND THAT ISTHE FIRST AMENDMENT OF
  • 00:02:55.999 --> 00:02:58.601
  • THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
  • 00:02:58.601 --> 00:02:59.702
  • IT IS THE FOUNDATIONOF OUR FREEDOM.
  • 00:02:59.702 --> 00:03:01.938
  • DEFENDING THE CHURCH ISREALLY DEFENDING THE
  • 00:03:01.938 --> 00:03:04.207
  • REPUBLIC BECAUSE OUR FOREFATHERSAND FOUNDERS CAME
  • 00:03:04.207 --> 00:03:08.111
  • HERE FOR RELIGIOUSFREEDOM.
  • 00:03:08.111 --> 00:03:09.579
  • THEY WANTED TO BE FREE OFTHE STATE TELLING THEM
  • 00:03:09.579 --> 00:03:12.115
  • WHETHER THEY COULD ORCOULD NOT WORSHIP OR HOW
  • 00:03:12.115 --> 00:03:14.150
  • THEY COULD WORSHIP IFTHEY WERE EVEN PERMITTED
  • 00:03:14.150 --> 00:03:16.286
  • TO DO SO.
  • 00:03:16.286 --> 00:03:17.353
  • SO THAT'S WHAT THE FIRSTAMENDMENT REALLY DOES IS
  • 00:03:17.353 --> 00:03:19.389
  • IT SAYS GOVERNMENT AS YOUSO ELOQUENTLY SAID CANNOT
  • 00:03:19.389 --> 00:03:22.592
  • MAKE A LAW ESTABLISHINGA RELIGION MAKING A LAW
  • 00:03:22.592 --> 00:03:25.561
  • THAT SAYS HOW YOUWORSHIP, WHETHER IT'S
  • 00:03:25.561 --> 00:03:27.563
  • ORTHODOX, WHETHER YOU CANOR CANNOT, OR PROHIBITING
  • 00:03:27.563 --> 00:03:30.466
  • THE FREEDEXERCISE THEREOF.
  • 00:03:30.466 --> 00:03:32.602
  • SO WE HAVE A VERYSTRONG FIRST AMEND.
  • 00:03:32.602 --> 00:03:34.804
  • THE PROBLEM IS JUDGESOFTEN TIMES DON'T FOLLOW
  • 00:03:34.804 --> 00:03:37.573
  • IT, AND THAT'S WHY WEHAVE TO LITIGATE THESE
  • 00:03:37.573 --> 00:03:40.009
  • CASES IN COURT.
  • 00:03:40.009 --> 00:03:41.344
  • - YOU KNOW, MAT, ITJUST SEEMS SO ODD TO ME
  • 00:03:41.344 --> 00:03:45.181
  • THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN THISPANDEMIC HAS HAPPENED,
  • 00:03:45.181 --> 00:03:48.618
  • AND GOVERNORS SEEMEDTO START IMPOSING
  • 00:03:48.618 --> 00:03:51.154
  • INDIVIDUALIZED RULESSTATE BY STATE, AND IT
  • 00:03:51.154 --> 00:03:55.792
  • SEEMS SOME HAVECOMPLETELY GONE OFF THE
  • 00:03:55.792 --> 00:03:57.760
  • RAILS WHERE OTHERS SEEMTO UNDERSTAND, AT LEAST
  • 00:03:57.760 --> 00:04:02.065
  • UNDERSTAND THECONSTITUTION.
  • 00:04:02.065 --> 00:04:03.666
  • SO WHY IS THISHAPPENING LIKE THIS?
  • 00:04:03.666 --> 00:04:05.968
  • - YOU KNOW, I THINK ITREALLY GOES BACK TO THEIR
  • 00:04:05.968 --> 00:04:08.471
  • ACTUAL WORLD VIEW.
  • 00:04:08.471 --> 00:04:10.039
  • WHAT DO THEY THINK ABOUTTHE WORLD IN TERMS OF THE
  • 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:12.709
  • ROLE OF INDIVIDUALS, THEROLE OF CHURCH, AND THE
  • 00:04:12.709 --> 00:04:15.845
  • ROLE OF GOVERNMENT.
  • 00:04:15.845 --> 00:04:16.946
  • AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK ATTHESE GOVERNORS, THERE IS
  • 00:04:16.946 --> 00:04:19.716
  • A PATTERN ACROSS THECOUNTRY, AND IT'S BASED
  • 00:04:19.716 --> 00:04:22.485
  • ON WORLD VIEW.
  • 00:04:22.485 --> 00:04:23.586
  • THEY DON'T CONSIDERCHURCHES TO BE ESSENTIAL
  • 00:04:23.586 --> 00:04:25.521
  • YET LIQUOR STORES ANDABORTION CLINICS
  • 00:04:25.521 --> 00:04:27.824
  • ARE ESSENTIAL.
  • 00:04:27.824 --> 00:04:28.925
  • NOW, WHEN THAT IS YOURWORLD VIEW, IT'S TURNED
  • 00:04:28.925 --> 00:04:30.993
  • UPSIDE DOWN AND IT'SCOMPLETELY ANTITHETICAL
  • 00:04:30.993 --> 00:04:33.663
  • TO OUR BASICFOUNDATIONAL LIBERTIES.
  • 00:04:33.663 --> 00:04:36.532
  • SO THEY PUT CHURCHES IN ACATEGORY OF NON-ESSENTIAL
  • 00:04:36.532 --> 00:04:39.969
  • BUT BIG BOX CENTERSAND LIQUOR STORES AND
  • 00:04:39.969 --> 00:04:44.374
  • ABORTION CLINICS AND SOMANY OTHERS, FOR EXAMPLE
  • 00:04:44.374 --> 00:04:46.876
  • IN CALIFORNIA, YOU HAVE29 PAGES OF SINGLE SPACED
  • 00:04:46.876 --> 00:04:50.880
  • ENTITIES THAT AREESSENTIAL WITH HUNDREDS
  • 00:04:50.880 --> 00:04:56.018
  • AND HUNDREDS OF SUBCATEGORIES, BUT CHURCHES
  • 00:04:56.018 --> 00:04:58.321
  • ARE PUT IN THENON-ESSENTIAL CATEGORY.
  • 00:04:58.321 --> 00:05:00.289
  • SO THAT IS A BASIC WORLDVIEW PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE.
  • 00:05:00.289 --> 00:05:04.827
  • AND WHEN THEY PUTCHURCHES IN A
  • 00:05:04.827 --> 00:05:06.496
  • NON ESSENTIAL CATEGORY, THEYWANT TO SUPPRESS THEM.
  • 00:05:06.496 --> 00:05:09.232
  • BUT IT'S NOTHING NEWBECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT
  • 00:05:09.232 --> 00:05:11.868
  • SOVIET UNION OR THEFORMER COMMUNIST MARXIST
  • 00:05:11.868 --> 00:05:15.171
  • ROMANIA OR SOME OF THEOTHER PLACES YOU HAVE
  • 00:05:15.171 --> 00:05:17.840
  • MARXISM, COMMUNISM,REPRESSIVE
  • 00:05:17.840 --> 00:05:20.176
  • REGIMES, WHAT'S THEFIRST TARGET OF ATTACK?
  • 00:05:20.176 --> 00:05:22.412
  • IT'S ALWAYS THE CHURCHBECAUSE THE CHURCH IS THE
  • 00:05:22.412 --> 00:05:24.447
  • FOUNDATION OF FREEDOM.
  • 00:05:24.447 --> 00:05:25.848
  • AND IT IS THE IMPEDIMENTTO AN OVERPOWERING
  • 00:05:25.848 --> 00:05:29.385
  • AGGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT.
  • 00:05:29.385 --> 00:05:30.887
  • - TBN FAMILY, I WANT TOYOU STAY TUNED BECAUSE IN
  • 00:05:30.887 --> 00:05:33.589
  • JUST A LITTLE WHILE WEARE GOING TO ACTUALLY BE
  • 00:05:33.589 --> 00:05:35.591
  • SPEAKING TO PASTORS WHOHAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH
  • 00:05:35.591 --> 00:05:38.161
  • THIS FIGHT WITH MATSTAVER AND LIBERTY
  • 00:05:38.161 --> 00:05:40.229
  • COUNSEL RIGHTBESIDE THEM.
  • 00:05:40.229 --> 00:05:41.931
  • YOU DON'T WANTTO MISS THIS.
  • 00:05:41.931 --> 00:05:43.533
  • YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR FROMTHE PASTORS DIRECTLY IN
  • 00:05:43.533 --> 00:05:45.735
  • JUST A FEW MINUTES.
  • 00:05:45.735 --> 00:05:47.036
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:05:47.036 --> 00:05:51.000
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:05:51.000 --> 00:05:55.212
  • - MAT, IS THEREANYTHING THAT GIVES
  • 00:05:55.212 --> 00:05:57.347
  • ANYONE THE RIGHT TOIMPEDE CHURCH SERVICES?
  • 00:05:57.347 --> 00:05:59.850
  • - NO.
  • 00:05:59.850 --> 00:06:00.984
  • IN FACT, IF YOU GO BACKTO 1947 IN THE US SUPREME
  • 00:06:00.984 --> 00:06:03.587
  • COURT CASE OF EVERSONVERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION
  • 00:06:03.587 --> 00:06:06.623
  • TALKING ABOUT THEESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE THAT
  • 00:06:06.623 --> 00:06:08.325
  • GOVERNMENT CAN'TESTABLISH A RELIGION, THE
  • 00:06:08.325 --> 00:06:10.227
  • COURT SAID AS FAR ASBACK AT 1947 THAT THE
  • 00:06:10.227 --> 00:06:13.197
  • ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSEMEANS AT A MINIMUM AND IT
  • 00:06:13.197 --> 00:06:15.766
  • GAVE CERTAIN POINTS OFWHAT IT MEANS INCLUDING
  • 00:06:15.766 --> 00:06:18.001
  • THAT THE GOVERNMENTCANNOT FORCE SOMEONE TO
  • 00:06:18.001 --> 00:06:20.737
  • ATTEND CHURCH AGAINSTTHEIR WILL, OR PROHIBIT
  • 00:06:20.737 --> 00:06:24.107
  • THEM FROM ATTENDINGCHURCH AGAINST THEIR WILL.
  • 00:06:24.107 --> 00:06:26.376
  • IN OTHER WORDS, THEYCAN'T FORCE THEM TO GO TO
  • 00:06:26.376 --> 00:06:27.978
  • CHURCH AGAINST THEIR WILLBUT THEY ALSO CANNOT
  • 00:06:27.978 --> 00:06:29.913
  • PROHIBIT THEM FROM GOINGTO CHURCH AGAINST THEIR WILL.
  • 00:06:29.913 --> 00:06:32.883
  • AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHATTHESE GOVERNOR ORDERS ARE
  • 00:06:32.883 --> 00:06:36.019
  • DOING IS THEY'REPROHIBITING PEOPLE FROM
  • 00:06:36.019 --> 00:06:38.121
  • GOING TO CHURCHAGAINST THEIR WILL.
  • 00:06:38.121 --> 00:06:39.790
  • IN SOME PLACES LIKECALIFORNIA WE'LL TALK
  • 00:06:39.790 --> 00:06:41.525
  • ABOUT, 99.9% OF THESTATE IS UNDER A
  • 00:06:41.525 --> 00:06:45.529
  • NO WORSHIP ORDER.
  • 00:06:45.529 --> 00:06:47.231
  • THAT MEANS NOT MORE THANONE PERSON IN A CHURCH NO
  • 00:06:47.231 --> 00:06:50.601
  • MATTER THE SIZE OF THECHURCH FOR WORSHIP.
  • 00:06:50.601 --> 00:06:53.237
  • AND YOU CAN'T EVENWORSHIP IN YOUR PRIVATE
  • 00:06:53.237 --> 00:06:55.405
  • HOME WITH SOMEONE WHODOESN'T LIVE IN THAT HOME.
  • 00:06:55.405 --> 00:06:57.841
  • - WHAT IS THIS DOING TOCHURCHES AND BASICALLY
  • 00:06:57.841 --> 00:07:02.012
  • THE CHURCH MOVING INOUR COUNTRY TODAY?
  • 00:07:02.012 --> 00:07:04.081
  • - YOU KNOW, I THINK ASWE TALK TO PASTORS WHO
  • 00:07:04.081 --> 00:07:07.584
  • HAVE BEEN CLOSED WITHTHEIR CHURCHES EARLY ON
  • 00:07:07.584 --> 00:07:10.487
  • IN THE PANDEMIC BECAUSEWE DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT
  • 00:07:10.487 --> 00:07:12.389
  • IT, AND THOSE CHURCHESHAVE REOPENED AGAIN,
  • 00:07:12.389 --> 00:07:16.493
  • THEY'RE HAVING A HARD EVERYTIME GETTING PEOPLE TO
  • 00:07:16.493 --> 00:07:18.962
  • COME TO CHURCH IN TERMSOF THE NUMBERS THEY HAD.
  • 00:07:18.962 --> 00:07:21.498
  • AND THESE ARE PASTORS WHOARE VERY VERY CONCERNED
  • 00:07:21.498 --> 00:07:23.867
  • ABOUT THE HEALTH ANDWELFARE, SO THEY'RE DOING
  • 00:07:23.867 --> 00:07:26.036
  • SOCIAL DISTANCING.
  • 00:07:26.036 --> 00:07:27.337
  • THEY'RE DOING OTHERTHINGS, BUT THERE'S STILL
  • 00:07:27.337 --> 00:07:29.239
  • PEOPLE THAT ARE SCAREDTO GO TO CHURCH.
  • 00:07:29.239 --> 00:07:31.408
  • AND MOREOVER I THINKTHEIR PASTORS STILL IN
  • 00:07:31.408 --> 00:07:34.244
  • SOME STATES THAT AREHAVING TO DECIDE, DO I
  • 00:07:34.244 --> 00:07:38.382
  • OPEN THE CHURCH OR DO IFACE CRIMINAL PENALTIES
  • 00:07:38.382 --> 00:07:42.519
  • UP TO A YEAR IN PRISONAND DAILY FINES OF
  • 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:44.588
  • A $1.000?
  • 00:07:44.588 --> 00:07:45.689
  • SO AS YOU SAID, NO ONE INAMERICA SHOULD EVER HAVE
  • 00:07:45.689 --> 00:07:49.259
  • TO FACE THAT CHOICE, ANDYET THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
  • 00:07:49.259 --> 00:07:51.795
  • FACING IN 2020 AND NOWCONTINUING IN 2021.
  • 00:07:51.795 --> 00:07:55.032
  • - MAT, JUST BEFORE WESTART TRYING OUR PASTORS,
  • 00:07:55.032 --> 00:07:58.235
  • WHAT IS LIBERTY COUNSELDOING RIGHT NOW TO
  • 00:07:58.235 --> 00:08:00.671
  • HELP PASTORS?
  • 00:08:00.671 --> 00:08:02.105
  • - WE'RE LITIGATINGALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
  • 00:08:02.105 --> 00:08:03.774
  • WE'RE IN FACT IN MULTIPLECOURTS OF APPEALS.
  • 00:08:03.774 --> 00:08:05.742
  • WE'VE BEEN TO THE SUPREMECOURT AT LEAST FOUR TIMES.
  • 00:08:05.742 --> 00:08:08.011
  • WE'RE GOING BACK.
  • 00:08:08.011 --> 00:08:08.979
  • WE HAVE ONE CASE THAT'STHERE READY FOR
  • 00:08:08.979 --> 00:08:10.948
  • FULL REVIEW.
  • 00:08:10.948 --> 00:08:11.982
  • IT'S THE FIRST CASEIN THE COUNTRY.
  • 00:08:11.982 --> 00:08:13.417
  • WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKINGTO THAT PASTOR LATER, AND
  • 00:08:13.417 --> 00:08:15.752
  • WE REPRESENT OVER 2.000PASTORS IN OVER 44 STATES
  • 00:08:15.752 --> 00:08:19.923
  • DEPENDING UPON THEPARTICULAR TIME OF THE
  • 00:08:19.923 --> 00:08:21.858
  • YEAR AS TO WHETHER THESEORDERS ARE OPPRESSIVE OR
  • 00:08:21.858 --> 00:08:24.761
  • CHANGING, SO OVER 2.000PASTORS AND THAT HAS BEEN
  • 00:08:24.761 --> 00:08:29.299
  • EXCEPTIONALLY BUSY.
  • 00:08:29.299 --> 00:08:31.935
  • OUR WEEKENDSHAVE BEEN FULL.
  • 00:08:31.935 --> 00:08:34.271
  • I MEAN, WE'VE HAD COURTDECISIONS ON FRIDAY
  • 00:08:34.271 --> 00:08:35.539
  • NIGHT, SATURDAY, SUNDAY.
  • 00:08:35.539 --> 00:08:37.574
  • WE'VE WORKED THROUGH ALLOF THE HOLIDAYS FOR THE
  • 00:08:37.574 --> 00:08:41.311
  • MOST PART AND HAD TO BEUP UNTIL 3, 4 AM IN THE
  • 00:08:41.311 --> 00:08:45.015
  • MORNING FILING DOCUMENTSBECAUSE OF THE REPETITION
  • 00:08:45.015 --> 00:08:48.085
  • OF THE CASES THAT AREMOVING THROUGH
  • 00:08:48.085 --> 00:08:49.886
  • THIS COUNTRY.
  • 00:08:49.886 --> 00:08:51.321
  • - WELL, MAT, YOU KNOW,WE ARRIVED AT THE AIRPORT
  • 00:08:51.321 --> 00:08:52.422
  • THIS MORNING
  • 00:08:52.422 --> 00:08:53.857
  • AT THE SAME TIME, I HEARDYOU ON THE PHONE,
  • 00:08:53.857 --> 00:08:55.592
  • YOU KNOW.
  • 00:08:55.592 --> 00:08:56.827
  • I WASN'T TRYING TOOVERHEAR BUT YOU WERE ON
  • 00:08:56.827 --> 00:08:58.762
  • THE PHONE WITH COUNSELOUT OF CALIFORNIA ON THE
  • 00:08:58.762 --> 00:09:00.631
  • CASES PENDING TODAY.
  • 00:09:00.631 --> 00:09:01.999
  • - THAT'S RIGHT.
  • 00:09:01.999 --> 00:09:03.100
  • IN FACT, THEY'RE GOING TOA COURT HEARING IN WHICH
  • 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:05.435
  • AFTER THAT COURT HEARING,THE PASTOR MAY WELL BE
  • 00:09:05.435 --> 00:09:07.838
  • REMANDED TO PRISONBECAUSE HE OPENED UP HIS
  • 00:09:07.838 --> 00:09:11.208
  • CHURCH THE SUNDAY BEFORE.
  • 00:09:11.208 --> 00:09:13.210
  • - LET'S GET TO THAT.
  • 00:09:13.210 --> 00:09:14.444
  • LAST YEAR IN JULY, THECOLORADO STATE ATTORNEY
  • 00:09:14.444 --> 00:09:16.613
  • GENERAL ATTEMPTED TO BANANDREW WOMMACK MINISTRIES
  • 00:09:16.613 --> 00:09:19.416
  • FROM HOLDING IN-PERSONGATHERINGS OF MORE THAN
  • 00:09:19.416 --> 00:09:22.119
  • 175 PEOPLE DECLARING THATTHE ACTIVITIES DONE ON
  • 00:09:22.119 --> 00:09:25.122
  • THE MINISTRY'S PROPERTYWERE NON-ESSENTIAL AND
  • 00:09:25.122 --> 00:09:28.392
  • THAT THE MINISTRY WASVIOLATING COLORADO
  • 00:09:28.392 --> 00:09:30.727
  • STATE ORDERS.
  • 00:09:30.727 --> 00:09:32.062
  • IN DECEMBER AFTER ASERIES OF LEGAL BATTLES,
  • 00:09:32.062 --> 00:09:34.898
  • THE STATE OF COLORADO HASDISMISSED THE CASE, AND THE
  • 00:09:34.898 --> 00:09:38.335
  • GOVERNOR RECLASSIFIEDPLACES OF WORSHIP
  • 00:09:38.335 --> 00:09:41.138
  • AS CRITICAL.
  • 00:09:41.138 --> 00:09:42.806
  • ANDREW WOMMACKJOINS ME TONIGHT.
  • 00:09:42.806 --> 00:09:45.308
  • ANDREW, YOU INITIALLYLOST IN COURT BUT THEN
  • 00:09:45.308 --> 00:09:48.311
  • DECIDED TO APPEAL.
  • 00:09:48.311 --> 00:09:50.013
  • WHAT MADE YOU DECIDETO CONTINUE FIGHTING?
  • 00:09:50.013 --> 00:09:53.083
  • BECAUSE I REMEMBER RIGHTAFTER THAT HAPPENED YOU
  • 00:09:53.083 --> 00:09:55.619
  • AND I HAD A LITTLE PHONECONVERSATION, AND YOU
  • 00:09:55.619 --> 00:09:57.988
  • TALKED ABOUT NOTSURE WHAT TO DO.
  • 00:09:57.988 --> 00:09:59.923
  • SO WHAT HAPPENED?
  • 00:09:59.923 --> 00:10:01.024
  • - WELL, YOU KNOW,I'M NOT EXCITED ABOUT
  • 00:10:01.024 --> 00:10:03.026
  • FIGHTING THE STATE ONTHIS, AND WE WERE JUST
  • 00:10:03.026 --> 00:10:05.595
  • GOING ABOUT OUR BUSINESSAND AS MAT CAN TELL YOU
  • 00:10:05.595 --> 00:10:08.932
  • BECAUSE HE WAS OUR LAWYERTHAT WENT THROUGH ALL OF
  • 00:10:08.932 --> 00:10:10.967
  • THIS, WHAT REALLYHAPPENED I THINK WE HELD
  • 00:10:10.967 --> 00:10:14.337
  • THREE MEETINGS THAT THEYBASICALLY DIDN'T SAY
  • 00:10:14.337 --> 00:10:17.908
  • ANYTHING UNTIL WE GOTWHERE WE PUT UP THE
  • 00:10:17.908 --> 00:10:21.311
  • DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM, THEREPUBLICAN PLATFORM SIDE
  • 00:10:21.311 --> 00:10:24.848
  • BY SIDE, AND IN THECENTER WE PUT HERE'S WHAT
  • 00:10:24.848 --> 00:10:27.484
  • THE BIBLE SAYS.
  • 00:10:27.484 --> 00:10:29.119
  • AND OF COURSE WEBROADCAST THAT LIVE CAST,
  • 00:10:29.119 --> 00:10:31.555
  • AND THE VERY NEXTMORNING, WE HAD THE CEASE
  • 00:10:31.555 --> 00:10:34.458
  • AND DESIST ORDERFROM THE GOVERNMENT.
  • 00:10:34.458 --> 00:10:38.562
  • THAT'S WHEN WE CONTACTEDLIBERTY COUNSEL
  • 00:10:38.562 --> 00:10:40.464
  • AND MAT STAVER.
  • 00:10:40.464 --> 00:10:41.798
  • SO ANYWAY, MY POINT IS IREALLY DIDN'T GO LOOKING
  • 00:10:41.798 --> 00:10:45.135
  • FOR A FIGHT, BUT THEYCAME AFTER US, AND THE
  • 00:10:45.135 --> 00:10:48.672
  • REASON I FOUGHT BASICALLYIS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
  • 00:10:48.672 --> 00:10:52.776
  • THEY HAVE THE RIGHT, IKNOW THEY DON'T HAVE THE
  • 00:10:52.776 --> 00:10:55.445
  • RIGHT TO DO THE THINGSTHEY WERE DOING.
  • 00:10:55.445 --> 00:10:57.180
  • AND IF WE JUST GIVE THEMTHIS FREEDOM AND STAY
  • 00:10:57.180 --> 00:11:01.685
  • QUIET, IN A SENSE IN WE'VEGIVEN UP OR RIGHTS TO THEM.
  • 00:11:01.685 --> 00:11:05.722
  • AND I GUARANTY THEM THEYARE NEVER GOING TO JUST
  • 00:11:05.722 --> 00:11:07.758
  • GIVE THEM BACK.
  • 00:11:07.758 --> 00:11:09.192
  • - ANDREW, WHAT WASYOUR RESPONSE OF YOUR
  • 00:11:09.192 --> 00:11:11.461
  • COMMUNITY AND THE PEOPLEAFFILIATED WITH YOUR
  • 00:11:11.461 --> 00:11:13.830
  • MINISTRY WHEN THATVERDICT CAME DOWN?
  • 00:11:13.830 --> 00:11:16.700
  • - YOU KNOW, IT WAS KINDOF A MIXED REACTION, TOM.
  • 00:11:16.700 --> 00:11:19.770
  • WE HAD SOME OF THE CITYOFFICIALS, AND I'M NOT
  • 00:11:19.770 --> 00:11:22.973
  • FREE TO GIVE THEIR NAMES.
  • 00:11:22.973 --> 00:11:24.741
  • IT MIGHT WORK AGAINSTTHEM, BUT THEY CAME AND
  • 00:11:24.741 --> 00:11:27.611
  • THANKED ME FOR DOINGWHAT I WAS DOING.
  • 00:11:27.611 --> 00:11:29.980
  • I WOULD SAY THAT MOST OFOUR STAFF WAS VERY
  • 00:11:29.980 --> 00:11:33.550
  • VERY SUPPORTIVE.
  • 00:11:33.550 --> 00:11:35.085
  • IF THEY WEREN'T, THEYDIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO
  • 00:11:35.085 --> 00:11:36.686
  • ME, BUT AS A WHOLE, THECITY AND THE HEALTH
  • 00:11:36.686 --> 00:11:41.558
  • DEPARTMENT AND THINGSLIKE THIS CAME OUT
  • 00:11:41.558 --> 00:11:43.593
  • AGAINST US.
  • 00:11:43.593 --> 00:11:45.095
  • THEY SAID THINGS ABOUTUS THAT WEREN'T TRUE.
  • 00:11:45.095 --> 00:11:47.631
  • EVEN UNDER OATH DURINGSOME OF THESE COURT
  • 00:11:47.631 --> 00:11:49.800
  • BATTLES, THEY WEREACCUSING US OF THINGS
  • 00:11:49.800 --> 00:11:52.669
  • THAT WE FILLED THEM INAND LET THEM KNOW THIS
  • 00:11:52.669 --> 00:11:54.905
  • WASN'T TRUE.
  • 00:11:54.905 --> 00:11:56.273
  • SO THEY HAD THEINFORMATION FROM US, AND
  • 00:11:56.273 --> 00:11:59.009
  • THEY EITHER JUST CHOSETO TOTALLY DISBELIEVE
  • 00:11:59.009 --> 00:12:02.245
  • EVERYTHING WE SAID, ORTHEY LIED UNDER OATH IN
  • 00:12:02.245 --> 00:12:05.849
  • FRONT OF THE JUDGE.
  • 00:12:05.849 --> 00:12:07.551
  • - AND SO AND IN THENEWSPAPER, WE WERE
  • 00:12:07.551 --> 00:12:10.387
  • BASICALLY TRASHED.
  • 00:12:10.387 --> 00:12:11.888
  • AND THEY SAID ALOT OF THINGS.
  • 00:12:11.888 --> 00:12:13.690
  • MAT STAVER WASA REAL BLESSING.
  • 00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:15.225
  • LIBERTY COUNSEL CAME OUTAND PUT OUT SOME PRESS
  • 00:12:15.225 --> 00:12:19.329
  • RELEASES THAT TRIED TOCORRECT THE SITUATION,
  • 00:12:19.329 --> 00:12:21.898
  • BUT AS A WHOLE, IJUST DECIDED THAT,
  • 00:12:21.898 --> 00:12:24.601
  • YOU KNOW WHAT?
  • 00:12:24.601 --> 00:12:25.836
  • I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHTTHIS BATTLE IN THE
  • 00:12:25.836 --> 00:12:27.103
  • PUBLIC SQUARE.
  • 00:12:27.103 --> 00:12:28.104
  • WE FOUGHT IN COURT.
  • 00:12:28.104 --> 00:12:29.206
  • LET THEM SAY ABOUT USWHAT THEY WANTED TO, AND
  • 00:12:29.206 --> 00:12:31.141
  • WE JUST CONTINUED ON.
  • 00:12:31.141 --> 00:12:33.643
  • BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE INTHIS COMMUNITY THAT JUST
  • 00:12:33.643 --> 00:12:37.848
  • BELIEVE WE ARE, YOU KNOW,THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF
  • 00:12:37.848 --> 00:12:41.351
  • ALL PROBLEMS INIF THE COMMUNITY.
  • 00:12:41.351 --> 00:12:43.920
  • AND TOM, THIS IS WHYA LOT OF MINISTERS, I
  • 00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:46.623
  • BELIEVE, DON'T STAND UPIS BECAUSE THERE'S PEOPLE
  • 00:12:46.623 --> 00:12:50.260
  • THAT WILL TAKE WHATEVERSTAND YOU HAVE AND USE IT
  • 00:12:50.260 --> 00:12:54.130
  • AGAINST YOU, AND THEY'REACCUSING ME OF KILLING
  • 00:12:54.130 --> 00:12:56.066
  • PEOPLE, AND I'M THENUMBER ONE SPREAD OF THE
  • 00:12:56.066 --> 00:12:59.269
  • VIRUS WHICH ISABSOLUTELY UNTRUE.
  • 00:12:59.269 --> 00:13:02.072
  • WE HAD 2 CASES FROM OURSUMMER FAMILY BIBLE
  • 00:13:02.072 --> 00:13:05.108
  • CONFERENCE, AND THEYCALLED IT AN OUTBREAK,
  • 00:13:05.108 --> 00:13:08.044
  • AND DURING THAT EXACTPERIOD OF TIME, THERE WAS
  • 00:13:08.044 --> 00:13:10.113
  • 25.000 CAMPERS IN OURCOMMUNITY THAT CAME AND
  • 00:13:10.113 --> 00:13:15.919
  • CAMPED IN THIS AREA.
  • 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.321
  • AND YOU KNOW THEY WENT TOWAL-MART AND THEY WENT TO
  • 00:13:18.321 --> 00:13:20.891
  • CONVENIENCE STORES, ANDTHEY ATE AND THEY DID
  • 00:13:20.891 --> 00:13:24.027
  • THINGS, AND YET NOBODYELSE WAS CREDITED
  • 00:13:24.027 --> 00:13:27.297
  • WITH ANYTHING.
  • 00:13:27.297 --> 00:13:28.365
  • IT WAS ALL US, AND SO IKNOW THAT'S WHY A LOT OF
  • 00:13:28.365 --> 00:13:32.202
  • PEOPLE DON'T DO IT ISJUST BECAUSE OF THE FALSE
  • 00:13:32.202 --> 00:13:36.606
  • THINGS THAT ARE SAIDTHAT THEY USED,
  • 00:13:36.606 --> 00:13:38.308
  • BUT PRAISE GOD.
  • 00:13:38.308 --> 00:13:39.442
  • WE TOOK A STAND AND WE'REGOING TO DO IT REGARDLESS
  • 00:13:39.442 --> 00:13:41.244
  • OF WHAT PEOPLEHAVE TO SAY.
  • 00:13:41.244 --> 00:13:43.213
  • - AND WHY IS ITIMPORTANT TO CONTINUE
  • 00:13:43.213 --> 00:13:44.948
  • TO FIGHT?
  • 00:13:44.948 --> 00:13:47.050
  • - WELL, TOM, LIKE I SAIDEARLIER, YOU KNOW, GOD
  • 00:13:47.050 --> 00:13:49.286
  • HAS GIVEN USTHESE RIGHTS.
  • 00:13:49.286 --> 00:13:51.187
  • THIS NATION IS SO BLESSEDTO HAVE THE CONSTITUTION
  • 00:13:51.187 --> 00:13:53.757
  • THAT WE HAVE.
  • 00:13:53.757 --> 00:13:54.958
  • AND IT GIVES US TOTALFREEDOM TO PRACTICE OUR
  • 00:13:54.958 --> 00:13:57.527
  • RELIGION WITHOUT ALLOF THESE RESTRICTIONS.
  • 00:13:57.527 --> 00:14:00.997
  • AND OF COURSE AS YOU KNOWTHEY PUT NO RESTRICTIONS
  • 00:14:00.997 --> 00:14:03.099
  • ON THE CASINOS AND OTHERTHAN PROTESTS AND YOU
  • 00:14:03.099 --> 00:14:06.102
  • COULD DO ALL THESETHINGS, BUT CHURCHES WERE
  • 00:14:06.102 --> 00:14:07.771
  • SINGLED OUT.
  • 00:14:07.771 --> 00:14:09.272
  • IT WAS A DIRECT VIOLATIONOF OUR FIRST AMENDMENT.
  • 00:14:09.272 --> 00:14:11.741
  • AND LIKE I WAS SAYINGEARLIER, IF WE DON'T
  • 00:14:11.741 --> 00:14:13.543
  • FIGHT AND THROUGH OURSILENCE WE ARE IN A SENSE
  • 00:14:13.543 --> 00:14:16.880
  • GIVING APPROVAL TOTHESE OVERREACHES
  • 00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:19.649
  • OF GOVERNMENT.
  • 00:14:19.649 --> 00:14:21.184
  • SO I FEEL WE HAVE TOSTAND UP AND I AM JUST
  • 00:14:21.184 --> 00:14:25.221
  • LIKE MOST PEOPLE, I WOULDJUST AS SOON NOT FIGHT
  • 00:14:25.221 --> 00:14:30.193
  • THE GOVERNMENT.
  • 00:14:30.193 --> 00:14:31.594
  • I'M NOT A FIGHTER BYNATURE, BUT I THINK IF WE
  • 00:14:31.594 --> 00:14:34.931
  • DON'T STAND AND FIGHT,WE'RE DOING A DISSERVICE
  • 00:14:34.931 --> 00:14:37.200
  • TO OUR FOREFATHERSWHO GAVE THEIR LIFE,
  • 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.270
  • THEIR LIBERTY, THEIRFORTUNE, THEY GAVE
  • 00:14:40.270 --> 00:14:42.405
  • THEIR LIVES.
  • 00:14:42.405 --> 00:14:43.606
  • AND WE HAVE TO DOSOMETHING TO STAND UP AND
  • 00:14:43.606 --> 00:14:46.076
  • FIGHT FOR THIS, AND WE'REOBLIGATED BY SCRIPTURE.
  • 00:14:46.076 --> 00:14:49.512
  • IT SAYS THAT GOD HOLDSUS ACCOUNTABLE IF WE SEE
  • 00:14:49.512 --> 00:14:52.082
  • THAT PEOPLE ARE BEINGTREATED UNJUSTLY, AND IF
  • 00:14:52.082 --> 00:14:55.085
  • WE DON'T ACT, HEKNOWS OUR HEART.
  • 00:14:55.085 --> 00:14:57.654
  • AND WE ARE BEINGHELD ACCOUNTABLE.
  • 00:14:57.654 --> 00:14:59.456
  • SO I BELIEVE IN THE SIGHTOF GOD AS WELL AS JUST
  • 00:14:59.456 --> 00:15:03.426
  • STANDING PATRIOTIC THINGSFOR WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN US
  • 00:15:03.426 --> 00:15:06.429
  • IN THIS NATION, THAT WEHAVE TO STAND AND FIGHT
  • 00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:09.265
  • OR WE WILL LOSE THESELIBERTIES, SO I FOR ONE
  • 00:15:09.265 --> 00:15:12.302
  • AM SIGNED UP, AND PRAISEGOD, I'M STANDING UP AND
  • 00:15:12.302 --> 00:15:15.805
  • FIGHTING AS LONGAS IT TAKES.
  • 00:15:15.805 --> 00:15:17.507
  • - WOW, ANDREW.
  • 00:15:17.507 --> 00:15:18.875
  • THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THESTAND YOU'VE MADE AND FOR
  • 00:15:18.875 --> 00:15:21.277
  • THE FIGHT BECAUSE IT'SNOT JUST FOR YOU.
  • 00:15:21.277 --> 00:15:23.913
  • YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU GUYSARE DOING RIGHT NOW MEANS
  • 00:15:23.913 --> 00:15:26.349
  • A LOT TO THE BODY OFCHRIST AROUND THE WORLD
  • 00:15:26.349 --> 00:15:28.918
  • AND SPECIALLY RIGHT HEREIN THE UNITED STATES
  • 00:15:28.918 --> 00:15:30.553
  • RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:15:30.553 --> 00:15:31.454
  • SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
  • 00:15:31.454 --> 00:15:33.123
  • - SO MAT, WHAT DOESALL THIS MEAN LEGALLY?
  • 00:15:33.123 --> 00:15:35.592
  • - WELL, IT MEANS NOW INCOLORADO ANDREW WOMMACK
  • 00:15:35.592 --> 00:15:39.029
  • MINISTRY CAN HAVE THEBIBLE CONFERENCES AND THE
  • 00:15:39.029 --> 00:15:41.564
  • WORSHIP SERVICES WITHOUTTHE RESTRICTIONS SO THAT
  • 00:15:41.564 --> 00:15:43.800
  • IS GOOD NEWS, AND THATNOT ONLY COVERS ANDREW
  • 00:15:43.800 --> 00:15:46.636
  • WOMMACK MINISTRY BUTEVERY OTHER PLACE OF
  • 00:15:46.636 --> 00:15:48.505
  • WORSHIP IN COLORADO.
  • 00:15:48.505 --> 00:15:49.739
  • SO THAT'S AN 180 DEGREETURNAROUND.
  • 00:15:49.739 --> 00:15:52.308
  • AND WHAT CAUSED THAT?
  • 00:15:52.308 --> 00:15:53.710
  • THE CASES THAT WERE ATTHE US SUPREME COURT, THE
  • 00:15:53.710 --> 00:15:56.546
  • THANKSGIVING EVE DECISIONOUT OF NEW YORK, AND THEN
  • 00:15:56.546 --> 00:15:59.115
  • OUR CASE DECISION ONDECEMBER 3 OUT OF
  • 00:15:59.115 --> 00:16:01.384
  • CALIFORNIA ULTIMATELYAFFECTED THE DECISION
  • 00:16:01.384 --> 00:16:04.888
  • IN COLORADO.
  • 00:16:04.888 --> 00:16:06.056
  • - SO HOW IMPORTANT IS ITFOR CHURCHES TO CONTINUE
  • 00:16:06.056 --> 00:16:09.059
  • TO FIGHT THINGSTHAT BASICALLY
  • 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:11.294
  • ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL?
  • 00:16:11.294 --> 00:16:12.829
  • - WELL, I THINK IT'SREALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE
  • 00:16:12.829 --> 00:16:15.365
  • HERE IS THE SITUATION.
  • 00:16:15.365 --> 00:16:16.666
  • YOU MIGHT SAY THAT I'MWORSHIPPING ONLINE, AND
  • 00:16:16.666 --> 00:16:19.702
  • THAT'S FINE.
  • 00:16:19.702 --> 00:16:20.770
  • THAT'S YOUR DECISION,BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE THE
  • 00:16:20.770 --> 00:16:22.505
  • GOVERNMENT'S DECISION TOSAY THAT THIS IS THE ONLY
  • 00:16:22.505 --> 00:16:26.009
  • WAY IN WHICH YOU WILL BEABLE TO WORSHIP BECAUSE
  • 00:16:26.009 --> 00:16:28.745
  • ONCE YOU ALLOW THEGOVERNMENT TO TELL YOU
  • 00:16:28.745 --> 00:16:30.814
  • HOW YOU CAN WORSHIP, WHENYOU CAN WORSHIP, AND THE
  • 00:16:30.814 --> 00:16:33.850
  • THE MANNER IN WHICH YOUCAN WORSHIP, THEN THEY
  • 00:16:33.850 --> 00:16:36.386
  • HAVE TOTAL CONTROL.
  • 00:16:36.386 --> 00:16:37.887
  • AND THE CHURCH IS NOTUNDER THE CONTROL OF CAESAR.
  • 00:16:37.887 --> 00:16:42.225
  • JESUS SAID, RENDER TOCAESAR THE THINGS THAT
  • 00:16:42.225 --> 00:16:45.495
  • BELONG TO CAESAR, ANDTO GOD THE THINGS THAT
  • 00:16:45.495 --> 00:16:48.164
  • BELONG TO GOD.
  • 00:16:48.164 --> 00:16:49.666
  • BUT THE CHURCH HAS NEVERBELONGED TO CAESAR.
  • 00:16:49.666 --> 00:16:52.235
  • IT BELONGS TO GOD.
  • 00:16:52.235 --> 00:16:53.803
  • AND THE CHURCH IS MORETHAN JUST A MESSAGE THAT
  • 00:16:53.803 --> 00:16:57.207
  • YOU RECEIVE EITHER INPERSON OR ONLINE.
  • 00:16:57.207 --> 00:16:59.642
  • IT IS A BODYOF BELIEVERS.
  • 00:16:59.642 --> 00:17:02.045
  • IT IS THE HOSPITAL FORTHE COMMUNITY, AND WHEN
  • 00:17:02.045 --> 00:17:04.981
  • THE CHURCHES ARE CLOSEDAND THE LIGHTS ARE OFF,
  • 00:17:04.981 --> 00:17:08.384
  • THE COMMUNITY GROANSIN ITS ABSENCE.
  • 00:17:08.384 --> 00:17:10.220
  • AND THERE ARE SIGNIFICANTCONSEQUENCES THAT WE'LL
  • 00:17:10.220 --> 00:17:13.389
  • TALK ABOUT LATER IN TERMSOF MENTAL HEALTH AND
  • 00:17:13.389 --> 00:17:15.492
  • OTHER KINDS OF SITUATIONSTHAT ARE DEVASTATING.
  • 00:17:15.492 --> 00:17:18.561
  • - LET'S GO TO CHE' AHN.
  • 00:17:18.561 --> 00:17:19.696
  • WHEN WE CAME TO YOU A FEWMONTHS, WE TOLD YOU ABOUT
  • 00:17:19.696 --> 00:17:22.899
  • PASTOR CHE' AHN OFHARVEST ROCK CHURCH IN
  • 00:17:22.899 --> 00:17:25.668
  • PASADENA, CALIFORNIA.
  • 00:17:25.668 --> 00:17:27.470
  • LAST MARCH AMIDST THEUNCERTAINTY OF THE CORONA
  • 00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.240
  • VIRUS, THE CHURCHSTRICTLY ADHERED TO THE
  • 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.109
  • CALIFORNIA STATEGUIDELINES FOR COVID 19.
  • 00:17:33.109 --> 00:17:36.079
  • FIRST, CLOSING DOORS FORSEVERAL MONTHS AND LATER
  • 00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:39.382
  • UTILIZING SAFETYPROTOCOLS DURING
  • 00:17:39.382 --> 00:17:41.885
  • IN-PERSON SERVICES.
  • 00:17:41.885 --> 00:17:43.586
  • BUT DURING THE SUMMERAFTER THE STATE OF
  • 00:17:43.586 --> 00:17:46.523
  • CALIFORNIA BANNEDIN-PERSON WORSHIP AND
  • 00:17:46.523 --> 00:17:49.425
  • TOLD PASTOR CHE' AHN THATHE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO
  • 00:17:49.425 --> 00:17:52.595
  • GATHER, THE CHURCH FILEDA FEDERAL CIVIL COMPLAINT
  • 00:17:52.595 --> 00:17:55.865
  • AGAINST THE RESTRICTIONSSAYING THAT THOSE
  • 00:17:55.865 --> 00:17:58.535
  • RESTRICTIONS WERESPECIFICALLY AIMED AT
  • 00:17:58.535 --> 00:18:02.005
  • CRIMINALIZING IN-PERSONWORSHIP, BOTH IN AND
  • 00:18:02.005 --> 00:18:04.207
  • OUTSIDE OF PRIVATECITIZEN'S HOMES.
  • 00:18:04.207 --> 00:18:07.577
  • AFTER MONTHS OF IMPENDINGCRIMINAL THREATS AND
  • 00:18:07.577 --> 00:18:11.347
  • FINES BY STATE AND LOCALOFFICIALS, THE CHURCH
  • 00:18:11.347 --> 00:18:13.616
  • REQUESTED THE US SUPREMECOURT INTERVENE.
  • 00:18:13.616 --> 00:18:17.220
  • MEANWHILE, THE CHURCHCONTINUED TO MEET INDOORS
  • 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:20.323
  • DESPITE CALIFORNIA STATEORDER PROHIBITING INDOOR
  • 00:18:20.323 --> 00:18:24.093
  • CHURCH GATHERINGS.
  • 00:18:24.093 --> 00:18:25.828
  • IN LATE NOVEMBER, THESUPREME COURT ORDERED A
  • 00:18:25.828 --> 00:18:29.199
  • LOWER COURT DECISION TOBE VACATED AND THE CASE
  • 00:18:29.199 --> 00:18:32.702
  • SENT BACK DOWN TOA DISTRICT COURT.
  • 00:18:32.702 --> 00:18:35.104
  • HOWEVER, US DISTRICTJUDGE BERNAL RULED
  • 00:18:35.104 --> 00:18:38.975
  • AGAINST THE CHURCH FORA SECOND TIME IN THAT
  • 00:18:38.975 --> 00:18:41.578
  • HEARING PROMPTING LIBERTYCOUNSEL'S APPEAL AGAIN
  • 00:18:41.578 --> 00:18:45.548
  • BACK TO THE 9TH CIRCUITCOURT OF APPEALS.
  • 00:18:45.548 --> 00:18:48.484
  • LAST WEEK LIBERTY COUNSELARGUED IN FRONT OF THE
  • 00:18:48.484 --> 00:18:53.056
  • 9TH CIRCUIT, AND TONIGHTPASTOR CHE' AHN JOINS US
  • 00:18:53.056 --> 00:18:57.594
  • FROM CALIFORNIA.
  • 00:18:57.594 --> 00:18:58.861
  • PASTOR CHE', YOU'VEBATTLED THE LAST FEW
  • 00:18:58.861 --> 00:19:01.431
  • MONTHS BETWEEN THESUPREME COURT AND
  • 00:19:01.431 --> 00:19:02.799
  • THE 9TH CIRCUIT.
  • 00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:04.067
  • WHAT IS THE PULSE OFYOUR CHURCH AND YOUR
  • 00:19:04.067 --> 00:19:05.602
  • CONGREGATION NOW?
  • 00:19:05.602 --> 00:19:07.270
  • - WE'RE SO GRATEFUL THATTHE SUPREME COURT SPOKE
  • 00:19:07.270 --> 00:19:10.106
  • INTO OUR SITUATION WHENOUR PROSECUTOR THREATENED
  • 00:19:10.106 --> 00:19:13.910
  • TO ARREST ME AND TO FINEOUR CHURCH MEMBERS A
  • 00:19:13.910 --> 00:19:17.113
  • $1.000 PER PERSON, BUTALSO SAID THEY HAD THE
  • 00:19:17.113 --> 00:19:20.416
  • RIGHT TO ARREST OURCHURCH MEMBERS, AND WHEN
  • 00:19:20.416 --> 00:19:23.152
  • I READ THAT LETTER ITHOUGHT I'M NOT IN
  • 00:19:23.152 --> 00:19:26.022
  • COMMUNIST NORTH KOREA.
  • 00:19:26.022 --> 00:19:27.390
  • MY DAD CAME FROM NORTHKOREA, ESCAPED
  • 00:19:27.390 --> 00:19:29.292
  • TO SOUTH KOREA.
  • 00:19:29.292 --> 00:19:30.426
  • I'M NOT INCOMMUNIST CHINA.
  • 00:19:30.426 --> 00:19:32.228
  • I'M IN THE UNITED STATESOF AMERICA, AND THEY WANT
  • 00:19:32.228 --> 00:19:34.430
  • TO ARREST PEOPLE WHO LOVEJESUS WHO JUST WANT TO
  • 00:19:34.430 --> 00:19:37.133
  • WORSHIP, AND THECRAZINESS AND THE IRONY
  • 00:19:37.133 --> 00:19:40.503
  • IS THAT THEY'RE LETTINGPRISONERS OUT OF
  • 00:19:40.503 --> 00:19:42.038
  • PENITENTIARIES INCALIFORNIA BECAUSE OF
  • 00:19:42.038 --> 00:19:44.274
  • COVID 19 CROWDEDNESS,AND YET THEY WANT TO
  • 00:19:44.274 --> 00:19:46.943
  • ARREST PEOPLE WHO ARELAW-ABIDING CITIZENS, SO
  • 00:19:46.943 --> 00:19:48.945
  • THAT'S THE UPSIDE DOWNSITUATION THAT WE'RE IN
  • 00:19:48.945 --> 00:19:51.948
  • IN CALIFORNIA.
  • 00:19:51.948 --> 00:19:54.083
  • - SO DO YOU FEEL LIKEYOU'RE EXPERIENCING AN
  • 00:19:54.083 --> 00:19:56.452
  • INFRINGEMENT ON YOURCONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS?
  • 00:19:56.452 --> 00:19:58.688
  • - ABSOLUTELY.
  • 00:19:58.688 --> 00:19:59.989
  • I REALLY-- IN FACT, EARLYON WHEN HE DECLARED US
  • 00:19:59.989 --> 00:20:03.259
  • NON ESSENTIAL, I ALONGWITH AROUND 150 PASTORS
  • 00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:06.929
  • SIGNED A LETTER TOGOVERNOR NEWSOME TRYING
  • 00:20:06.929 --> 00:20:10.600
  • TO PERSUADE HIM THATWE'VE BEEN ESSENTIAL FOR
  • 00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:12.368
  • 2.000 YEARS.
  • 00:20:12.368 --> 00:20:14.103
  • YOU KNOW, I WAS AHIGH SCHOOL DROP OUT.
  • 00:20:14.103 --> 00:20:15.471
  • I WAS A DRUG ADDICT, ANDAT THE AGE OF 17 I GAVE
  • 00:20:15.471 --> 00:20:17.874
  • MY LIFE TO JESUS CHRIST.
  • 00:20:17.874 --> 00:20:19.442
  • COMPLETELYCHANGED MY LIFE.
  • 00:20:19.442 --> 00:20:21.344
  • AND ONE DAY, AND IT'STHE GRACE OF GOD, I WAS
  • 00:20:21.344 --> 00:20:23.479
  • DELIVERED FROMDRUG ADDICTION.
  • 00:20:23.479 --> 00:20:25.415
  • AND HERE I AM NOW MARRIEDWITH 4 WONDERFUL ADULT
  • 00:20:25.415 --> 00:20:30.586
  • CHILDREN THAT LOVE JESUS,THEY'RE SERVING GOD.
  • 00:20:30.586 --> 00:20:32.889
  • ALL OF THEM ARE INVOLVEDIN SOME KIND OF MINISTRY.
  • 00:20:32.889 --> 00:20:35.124
  • I HAVE 8 GRANDCHILDREN,AND I SHOULD EITHER BE
  • 00:20:35.124 --> 00:20:38.061
  • DEAD OR IN PRISON, ANDTHAT'S WHAT CHRISTIANITY
  • 00:20:38.061 --> 00:20:40.730
  • DOES FOR PEOPLE, AND SO IAPPEALED, BUT HE SAID NO,
  • 00:20:40.730 --> 00:20:44.400
  • YOU CAN'T MEET.
  • 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.668
  • AND YOU KNOW, THEY SAIDYOU COULD MEET ONLINE,
  • 00:20:45.668 --> 00:20:47.970
  • BUT YOU KNOW, THE BIBLESAYS DO NOT FORSAKE THE
  • 00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:50.940
  • ASSEMBLING OF THE SAINTSIN HEBREWS 10: 25.
  • 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:54.811
  • AND THERE ARE OVER 51OTHERS YOU CANNOT DO
  • 00:20:54.811 --> 00:20:57.780
  • BECAUSE OF JUSTWATCHING ONLINE.
  • 00:20:57.780 --> 00:21:00.683
  • - WELL, PASTOR CHE', IFANYONE WOULD BE A WITNESS
  • 00:21:00.683 --> 00:21:04.187
  • AND A TESTIMONY OF CHURCHBEING ESSENTIAL IT WOULD
  • 00:21:04.187 --> 00:21:06.389
  • BE YOURSELF.
  • 00:21:06.389 --> 00:21:07.690
  • AT 17 BEING SAVED FROM ALIFE OF DRUG ADDICTION
  • 00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:10.927
  • AND BASICALLY POSSIBLYEVEN LOSING YOUR LIFE,
  • 00:21:10.927 --> 00:21:13.229
  • YOU ARE THAT EXAMPLE.
  • 00:21:13.229 --> 00:21:16.065
  • AND LOOK AT YOU TODAY NOWSTANDING AND FIGHTING FOR
  • 00:21:16.065 --> 00:21:17.567
  • THE CHURCH IN GENERAL.
  • 00:21:17.567 --> 00:21:18.935
  • THAT'S AMAZING.
  • 00:21:18.935 --> 00:21:20.403
  • I'M HERE WITH MAT.
  • 00:21:20.403 --> 00:21:21.471
  • MAT IS SITTING RIGHTHERE WITH ME, SO I'M
  • 00:21:21.471 --> 00:21:22.672
  • GOING TO ASK MATA LITTLE BIT.
  • 00:21:22.672 --> 00:21:23.773
  • MAT, YOU REPRESENTEDTHIS CASE.
  • 00:21:23.773 --> 00:21:25.274
  • TELL US THE RESULTS OF ITAND WHAT THE BATTLE WAS LIKE.
  • 00:21:25.274 --> 00:21:28.010
  • - WELL, WE WENT ALL THEWAY TO THE US SUPREME COURT.
  • 00:21:28.010 --> 00:21:30.146
  • WE GOT A GOOD DECISIONON DECEMBER 3.
  • 00:21:30.146 --> 00:21:32.849
  • THE CASE WAS SENT BACKTO THE DISTRICT JUDGE.
  • 00:21:32.849 --> 00:21:34.884
  • THE ROADMAP WASPRETTY CLEAR.
  • 00:21:34.884 --> 00:21:36.352
  • THE COURT SAID FOLLOW THEROADMAP, AND IT'S FAIRLY
  • 00:21:36.352 --> 00:21:38.688
  • EASY TO FOLLOW, AND WHENYOU FOLLOW THE ROADMAP,
  • 00:21:38.688 --> 00:21:40.723
  • YOU REALIZE THESERESTRICTIONS
  • 00:21:40.723 --> 00:21:42.425
  • ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
  • 00:21:42.425 --> 00:21:43.626
  • BUT THE JUDGE BELOW DIDNOT WANT TO FOLLOW THE
  • 00:21:43.626 --> 00:21:45.895
  • ROADMAP, RULED AGAINSTUS THE SECOND TIME.
  • 00:21:45.895 --> 00:21:48.264
  • SO I ARGUED IT A SECONDTIME AT THE COURT OF
  • 00:21:48.264 --> 00:21:51.401
  • APPEALS FOR THE9TH CIRCUITS.
  • 00:21:51.401 --> 00:21:52.902
  • AND WE WILL ULTIMATELYWIN THIS CASE.
  • 00:21:52.902 --> 00:21:55.171
  • IT'S NOT A MATTER OF IF.
  • 00:21:55.171 --> 00:21:56.939
  • IT'S A MATTER OF WHEN WE NOTONLY WIN THIS
  • 00:21:56.939 --> 00:22:00.042
  • CASE IN CALIFORNIA ANDFREE UP WORSHIP ALL
  • 00:22:00.042 --> 00:22:03.112
  • ACROSS THE STATE BUT ALLACROSS THIS COUNTRY AS WELL.
  • 00:22:03.112 --> 00:22:06.082
  • - WOW.
  • 00:22:06.082 --> 00:22:07.183
  • SO MAT, AS YOU CONTINUETO TAKE THESE CASES, AND
  • 00:22:07.183 --> 00:22:10.253
  • HOW MANY -HOW MANYCHURCHES ARE YOU
  • 00:22:10.253 --> 00:22:12.622
  • REPRESENTING RIGHT NOW INTHE STATE OF CALIFORNIA?
  • 00:22:12.622 --> 00:22:15.224
  • - WELL, THROUGH PASTORCHE'S HARVEST ROCK CHURCH
  • 00:22:15.224 --> 00:22:18.528
  • WITH MULTIPLE CAMPUSESIN THAT AREA AND THEN
  • 00:22:18.528 --> 00:22:21.297
  • HARVEST INTERNATIONALMINISTRY ALSO FOUNDED BY
  • 00:22:21.297 --> 00:22:23.800
  • PASTOR CHE' AHN, WEREPRESENT IN THE 130,
  • 00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:28.137
  • 140, 150 RANGE INJUST CALIFORNIA.
  • 00:22:28.137 --> 00:22:31.174
  • IN FACT, HARVESTINTERNATIONAL MINISTRY
  • 00:22:31.174 --> 00:22:33.242
  • HAS AN INTERNATIONALMINISTRY OF 65.000
  • 00:22:33.242 --> 00:22:35.678
  • WORLDWIDE, AND SO HE'SALREADY GOTTEN INQUIRIES
  • 00:22:35.678 --> 00:22:39.048
  • FROM THE CHURCHES AROUNDTHE GLOBE THAT ARE FACING
  • 00:22:39.048 --> 00:22:41.818
  • THE SAME KIND OFRESTRICTIONS AND THEY'RE
  • 00:22:41.818 --> 00:22:43.453
  • TRYING TO USE THISAS A PRECEDENT.
  • 00:22:43.453 --> 00:22:45.688
  • - PASTOR CHE', WHATWOULD YOU SAY TO PASTORS
  • 00:22:45.688 --> 00:22:50.793
  • AND CHRISTIANS AROUND THECOUNTRY, PASTORS WHO ARE
  • 00:22:50.793 --> 00:22:52.995
  • IN SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCESTO YOU, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?
  • 00:22:52.995 --> 00:22:56.866
  • WHAT WOULD YOU GIVETHEM FOR A WORD
  • 00:22:56.866 --> 00:22:58.100
  • OF ENCOURAGEMENT?
  • 00:22:58.100 --> 00:22:59.202
  • BECAUSE I KNOW THISHASN'T BEEN EASY ON YOU.
  • 00:22:59.202 --> 00:23:01.070
  • YOU SAID YOURSELFYOU'VE GOT HATE MAIL.
  • 00:23:01.070 --> 00:23:03.206
  • THERE'S A LOT OF THINGSCOMING YOUR WAY.
  • 00:23:03.206 --> 00:23:04.907
  • WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TOBELIEVERS AND PASTORS IN
  • 00:23:04.907 --> 00:23:06.976
  • THIS STATE?
  • 00:23:06.976 --> 00:23:08.144
  • - I'D SAY ANUMBER OF THINGS.
  • 00:23:08.144 --> 00:23:09.412
  • YOU KNOW, GOD LOVES YOUBUT HE'S NOT GIVEN US THE
  • 00:23:09.412 --> 00:23:12.114
  • SPIRIT OF FEAR, BUT LOVE,POWER, AND A SOUND MIND.
  • 00:23:12.114 --> 00:23:15.384
  • 2 TIMOTHY 1:7.
  • 00:23:15.384 --> 00:23:17.453
  • AND NOT TO BE INTIMIDATEDBY THE STATE.
  • 00:23:17.453 --> 00:23:19.922
  • GOD SAID, I'LL NEVERLEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU.
  • 00:23:19.922 --> 00:23:22.692
  • AND JUST LIKE TO JOSHUA,BE STRONG AND COURAGEOUS.
  • 00:23:22.692 --> 00:23:26.095
  • YOU KNOW, ONLY JOSHUA ANDCALEB HAD THE FAITH TO
  • 00:23:26.095 --> 00:23:29.065
  • TAKE THE PROMISED LAND.
  • 00:23:29.065 --> 00:23:30.433
  • THE REST OF THE SPIESWERE COWARDLY, AND IT'S
  • 00:23:30.433 --> 00:23:34.103
  • INTERESTING, THAT WORDFEAR IN 2 TIMOTHY 1 IT'S
  • 00:23:34.103 --> 00:23:38.140
  • NOT THE NORMAL GREEKWORD FOR FEAR WHICH IS
  • 00:23:38.140 --> 00:23:40.243
  • [SPEAKING GREEK] WHEREWE GET THE WORD PHOBIA.
  • 00:23:40.243 --> 00:23:44.947
  • IT'S THE GREEK WORD[SPEAKING GREEK]
  • 00:23:44.947 --> 00:23:47.216
  • IT ONLY APPEARS TWICEIN THE NEW TESTAMENT,
  • 00:23:47.216 --> 00:23:49.285
  • 2 TIMOTHY 1 AND ALSOIN REVELATION 21.
  • 00:23:49.285 --> 00:23:52.622
  • AND IT'S REALLYTRANSLATED OF BEING A COWARD.
  • 00:23:52.622 --> 00:23:55.625
  • THE COWARDS WILL BETHROWN INTO THE LAKE OF
  • 00:23:55.625 --> 00:23:58.160
  • FIRE WITH MURDERERS ANDADULTERERS IN REVELATION 21.
  • 00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:02.732
  • SO WHAT THE BIBLESAYS IS GOD'S NOT GIVEN US
  • 00:24:02.732 --> 00:24:05.201
  • THE SPIRIT OF, SOMETRANSLATIONS SAY TIMIDITY
  • 00:24:05.201 --> 00:24:07.670
  • AND THEY WERE CLOSER, BUTBEING A COWARD, BUT OF
  • 00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:10.573
  • POWER AND LOVEAND SOUND MIND.
  • 00:24:10.573 --> 00:24:12.808
  • SO I WANT TO ENCOURAGEBELIEVERS AND PASTORS,
  • 00:24:12.808 --> 00:24:16.812
  • GOD'S GIVEN YOU THE POWEROF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
  • 00:24:16.812 --> 00:24:19.415
  • YOU SHALL RECEIVE POWERWHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT
  • 00:24:19.415 --> 00:24:21.484
  • COMES UPON YOU.
  • 00:24:21.484 --> 00:24:22.785
  • SO HERE I AM, I AMIMMIGRATED IN 1960 WITH
  • 00:24:22.785 --> 00:24:25.655
  • MY FAMILY.
  • 00:24:25.655 --> 00:24:26.789
  • I BECAME A CITIZENWHEN I WAS 13.
  • 00:24:26.789 --> 00:24:30.393
  • AND I AM -I'VE TRAVELEDTO ALMOST 100 NATIONS.
  • 00:24:30.393 --> 00:24:33.362
  • IT'S NOT A HYPERBOLEBECAUSE WE'RE IN
  • 00:24:33.362 --> 00:24:34.764
  • 70 NATIONS.
  • 00:24:34.764 --> 00:24:36.532
  • AND I STILL COME BACKEVEN THOUGH CALIFORNIA SO
  • 00:24:36.532 --> 00:24:38.734
  • EXTREMELY LEFT.
  • 00:24:38.734 --> 00:24:40.303
  • I SAY, GOD, THANK YOU.
  • 00:24:40.303 --> 00:24:41.571
  • THIS IS THE BESTNATION IN THE WORLD.
  • 00:24:41.571 --> 00:24:43.339
  • I'M SO GRATEFUL THAT I'MA US CITIZEN BECAUSE OF
  • 00:24:43.339 --> 00:24:46.442
  • OUR FREEDOM THAT WASESTABLISHED BY OUR
  • 00:24:46.442 --> 00:24:48.811
  • FOUNDING FATHERS, SO ITHINK I MAY APPRECIATE
  • 00:24:48.811 --> 00:24:51.614
  • MORE BECAUSE WHOEVER ISFORGIVEN MUCH LOVES MUCH.
  • 00:24:51.614 --> 00:24:54.350
  • AND BECAUSE OF WHAT ICAME OUT OF, YOU KNOW, KOREA.
  • 00:24:54.350 --> 00:24:57.687
  • MY DAD WAS A PASTORIN NORTH KOREA.
  • 00:24:57.687 --> 00:24:59.789
  • HE ESCAPED TOSOUTH KOREA.
  • 00:24:59.789 --> 00:25:01.123
  • SO I KNOW WHATCOMMUNISM IS LIKE.
  • 00:25:01.123 --> 00:25:02.925
  • - WOW.
  • 00:25:02.925 --> 00:25:03.993
  • - AND I'M SO GRATEFULBUT I'M ALSO CONCERNED
  • 00:25:03.993 --> 00:25:06.462
  • FOR OUR NATION, BUT WENEED TO SEE A REVIVAL IN
  • 00:25:06.462 --> 00:25:09.865
  • THIS NATION.
  • 00:25:09.865 --> 00:25:10.900
  • - AMEN.
  • 00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:12.068
  • PASTOR CHE', ON BEHALF OFMAT AND LAURIE AND THE
  • 00:25:12.068 --> 00:25:13.703
  • TBN FAMILY, THANK YOUFOR TAKING A STAND.
  • 00:25:13.703 --> 00:25:16.472
  • THANK YOU FOR THEFIGHT YOU'RE WAGING.
  • 00:25:16.472 --> 00:25:17.974
  • WE'RE WITH YOU.
  • 00:25:17.974 --> 00:25:19.208
  • WE'RE PRAYING FOR YOU.
  • 00:25:19.208 --> 00:25:20.409
  • AND YOU KEEP IT UPBECAUSE YOU'RE BEING AN
  • 00:25:20.409 --> 00:25:22.178
  • EXAMPLE THAT OTHERS CANFOLLOW AND THANK YOU FOR
  • 00:25:22.178 --> 00:25:24.847
  • STANDING THE UNITEDSTATES AND FOR YOUR CHURCH.
  • 00:25:24.847 --> 00:25:27.483
  • WE APPRECIATE IT MUCH.
  • 00:25:27.483 --> 00:25:29.085
  • WELL, MAT, I KNOW YOUREPRESENT PASTOR CHE'.
  • 00:25:29.085 --> 00:25:34.323
  • AND AS WE SIT HERE AT THEBEGINNING OF 2021, WHAT
  • 00:25:34.323 --> 00:25:38.027
  • OTHER INFORMATION CAN YOUSHARE REGARDING HIS CASE
  • 00:25:38.027 --> 00:25:41.230
  • AND HOW IT MAY AFFECTOTHER CHURCHES ACROSS
  • 00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:43.432
  • THE COUNTRY?
  • 00:25:43.432 --> 00:25:44.567
  • - LET ME JUST SAY THIS,CALIFORNIA IS THE MOST
  • 00:25:44.567 --> 00:25:47.336
  • RESTRICTIVE IN THE ENTIRENATION, AND IT'S HARD TO
  • 00:25:47.336 --> 00:25:50.906
  • BELIEVE THIS BUT
  • 00:25:50.906 --> 00:25:53.342
  • 99.9% OF PEOPLEIN CALIFORNIA
  • 00:25:53.342 --> 00:25:56.112
  • ARE ON A NO WORSHIP BAN.
  • 00:25:56.112 --> 00:25:58.748
  • IN OTHER WORDS, YOUCANNOT WORSHIP IN ANY
  • 00:25:58.748 --> 00:26:01.083
  • SIZE CHURCH WITH MORETHAN ONE PERSON;
  • 00:26:01.083 --> 00:26:03.419
  • MOREOVER, YOU CAN'TEVEN DO THAT IN A HOME
  • 00:26:03.419 --> 00:26:06.188
  • WITH SOMEONE WHODOESN'T LIVE THERE.
  • 00:26:06.188 --> 00:26:07.957
  • SO FOR SOMEONE WHO SAYS,WELL, MAYBE THE LORD IS
  • 00:26:07.957 --> 00:26:09.625
  • PUTTING US BACK TO HOMECHURCHES, IN CALIFORNIA
  • 00:26:09.625 --> 00:26:12.495
  • THAT'S EVENILLEGAL AS WELL.
  • 00:26:12.495 --> 00:26:14.563
  • SO THAT IS THEUNBELIEVABLE SITUATION
  • 00:26:14.563 --> 00:26:17.867
  • THAT WE FACEIN CALIFORNIA.
  • 00:26:17.867 --> 00:26:20.169
  • PASTORS HAVE BEEN FINED.
  • 00:26:20.169 --> 00:26:21.537
  • PASTORS HAVE BEENTHREATENED WITH ARREST.
  • 00:26:21.537 --> 00:26:22.972
  • WE HAVE A LETTER FROMTHE PASADENA CRIMINAL
  • 00:26:22.972 --> 00:26:25.141
  • PROSECUTOR THAT'S STILLIN EFFECT THREATENING
  • 00:26:25.141 --> 00:26:27.677
  • DAILY CRIMINAL CHARGESAGAINST PASTOR CHE',
  • 00:26:27.677 --> 00:26:30.413
  • THE STAFF AND ALL THEPARISHIONERS WHO ATTEND
  • 00:26:30.413 --> 00:26:33.482
  • AS WELL AS DAILY FINES.THAT IS UNBELIEVABLE,
  • 00:26:33.482 --> 00:26:37.019
  • BUT IT'S HAPPENINGHERE IN AMERICA.
  • 00:26:37.019 --> 00:27:14.000
  • ♪♪
  • 00:27:14.091 --> 00:27:17.427
  • - CHURCHES AROUND THECOUNTRY OPERATE FOOD BANKS,
  • 00:27:17.427 --> 00:27:19.863
  • PROGRAMS FOR THE POOR.
  • 00:27:19.863 --> 00:27:21.631
  • I'VE EVEN HEARD OFCHURCHES NOW BEING USED
  • 00:27:21.631 --> 00:27:24.134
  • AS VACCINATION CENTERSALL WHILE THEY ARE NOT
  • 00:27:24.134 --> 00:27:27.571
  • ALLOWED TO HOLDRELIGIOUS SERVICES.
  • 00:27:27.571 --> 00:27:30.240
  • MATT, WHY IS THERE SUCHRESTRICTION ON RELIGIOUS
  • 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.510
  • MEETINGS AND SERVICES?
  • 00:27:33.510 --> 00:27:35.178
  • - THAT REALLY ILLUSTRATESWHERE THE PROBLEM IS.
  • 00:27:35.178 --> 00:27:38.048
  • IT'S NOT THAT WORSHIP ISANY MORE RISKY THAN OTHER
  • 00:27:38.048 --> 00:27:42.252
  • PLACES WHERE YOU GO TOGROCERY STORES AND YOU
  • 00:27:42.252 --> 00:27:45.021
  • TOUCH THE SAME HANDLETHAT EVERYBODY ELSE
  • 00:27:45.021 --> 00:27:46.790
  • TOUCHES, OR YOU GATHERIN SOME OF THESE OTHER
  • 00:27:46.790 --> 00:27:48.925
  • PLACES FOR UNLIMITEDNUMBERS OF TIME.
  • 00:27:48.925 --> 00:27:51.228
  • IT'S THAT THEY DON'TWANT YOU TO WORSHIP.
  • 00:27:51.228 --> 00:27:53.730
  • IT'S NOT THAT IT'S MORERISKY, IT'S THAT THEY
  • 00:27:53.730 --> 00:27:56.500
  • HAVE AN OPPOSITION TOWORSHIP BECAUSE IN THE
  • 00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:58.702
  • SAME BUILDING WITHUNLIMITED NUMBERS OF
  • 00:27:58.702 --> 00:28:01.004
  • PEOPLE YOU CAN DONON-WORSHIP KIND OF
  • 00:28:01.004 --> 00:28:03.240
  • ACTIVITIES, NON-RELIGIOUSKIND OF ACTIVITIES,
  • 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.509
  • SECULAR GATHERINGS IN THESAME CHURCH BUILDING.
  • 00:28:05.509 --> 00:28:08.879
  • - BUT SURELY THEY HAVETO BE ABLE TO SEE THE
  • 00:28:08.879 --> 00:28:11.882
  • INCONSISTENCIES OFTHESE POLICIES, MATT.
  • 00:28:11.882 --> 00:28:14.951
  • - WELL, I THINK THEY SEEIT, BUT THEY STILL TRY TO
  • 00:28:14.951 --> 00:28:17.854
  • MAKE AN ARGUMENT THATWORSHIP IS MORE RISKY AND
  • 00:28:17.854 --> 00:28:20.524
  • IN FACT IT'S NOT MORERISKY BECAUSE WHEN YOU
  • 00:28:20.524 --> 00:28:22.559
  • LOOK AT THE CONGREGATIONOF GATHERING OF PEOPLE
  • 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.095
  • HERE TO WORSHIP AND ACONGREGATION OF PEOPLE
  • 00:28:25.095 --> 00:28:26.863
  • GATHERING IN THE SAMECHURCH FOR NON-WORSHIP
  • 00:28:26.863 --> 00:28:30.700
  • ACTIVITIES, WHETHER YOUFEED THEM, HOUSE THEM, OR
  • 00:28:30.700 --> 00:28:32.769
  • GIVE THEM COUNSELING FORUNEMPLOYMENT, ABUSE OR
  • 00:28:32.769 --> 00:28:36.106
  • ANYTHING ELSE, ANDTHEY'RE THE SAME PEOPLE
  • 00:28:36.106 --> 00:28:38.608
  • IN THE SAME CHURCH, ONEIS NOT RELIGIOUS, ONE IS,
  • 00:28:38.608 --> 00:28:41.978
  • YOU REALLY BEGIN TOSEE WHERE WE'RE GOING.
  • 00:28:41.978 --> 00:28:44.447
  • - WELL, I KNOW EVEN INOKLAHOMA, A LOT OF THE
  • 00:28:44.447 --> 00:28:48.351
  • CHURCHES ARE WHERE PEOPLEVOTE, SO I KNOW CHURCHES
  • 00:28:48.351 --> 00:28:51.221
  • ALL OVER THE COUNTRYHAVE BEEN MADE POLLING
  • 00:28:51.221 --> 00:28:54.291
  • CENTERS, SO I'M SURE THEY'REAT LEAST TAKING VOTES.
  • 00:28:54.291 --> 00:28:56.359
  • - EXACTLY, AND I THINKPART OF THE CLOSURE OF
  • 00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:58.428
  • CHURCHES WAS NOT ONLY,AS I MENTIONED, A
  • 00:28:58.428 --> 00:29:00.564
  • WORLD VIEW, MORE OF ASECULARIST ANTI-GOD
  • 00:29:00.564 --> 00:29:02.732
  • WORLD VIEW WHERE ABORTIONIS PERMISSIBLE AND
  • 00:29:02.732 --> 00:29:05.235
  • ESSENTIAL,WORSHIP IS NOT.
  • 00:29:05.235 --> 00:29:07.504
  • BUT I THINK WHERE THEREIS AN OPPOSITION OF ANY
  • 00:29:07.504 --> 00:29:10.140
  • STATIST SITUATION WHEREGOVERNMENT CONTROLS
  • 00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:12.843
  • EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO,
  • 00:29:12.843 --> 00:29:14.244
  • WE'VE SEEN THATIN THE PANDEMIC.
  • 00:29:14.244 --> 00:29:15.779
  • THEY WANT TO CONTROLEVERYTHING THAT YOU DO.
  • 00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:17.514
  • WHAT CAN OPEN, WHAT CAN'TOPEN, WHAT YOU HAVE TO
  • 00:29:17.514 --> 00:29:19.916
  • WEAR, WHAT YOUDON'T WEAR.
  • 00:29:19.916 --> 00:29:21.318
  • ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENTTHINGS, AND CHURCHES ARE
  • 00:29:21.318 --> 00:29:24.387
  • A FLY THAT IS THEIRRITANT BECAUSE THEY
  • 00:29:24.387 --> 00:29:28.058
  • WANT TO GET RID OF THATBECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT
  • 00:29:28.058 --> 00:29:30.927
  • SAYS IN THE SCRIPTURES"FOR FREEDOM CHRIST HAS
  • 00:29:30.927 --> 00:29:33.029
  • SET YOU FREE," AND WHENYOU EXPERIENCE THAT
  • 00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:35.098
  • FREEDOM, CHURCHES HAVEALWAYS BEEN THE BASTION
  • 00:29:35.098 --> 00:29:38.368
  • OF FREEDOM AROUND THEWORLD, AND THEY'VE ALWAYS
  • 00:29:38.368 --> 00:29:40.871
  • BEEN THE FIRST TARGET OFREPRESSIVE GOVERNMENTS.
  • 00:29:40.871 --> 00:29:43.306
  • - WOW.
  • 00:29:43.306 --> 00:29:44.474
  • OVER THE LAST YEAR, THETERM "ESSENTIAL" HAS
  • 00:29:44.474 --> 00:29:47.143
  • BECOME A FAMILIAR WORDIN OUR VOCABULARY.
  • 00:29:47.143 --> 00:29:50.213
  • WHETHER IT'S BEEN INREGARD TO BUSINESSES,
  • 00:29:50.213 --> 00:29:52.849
  • PEOPLE, SERVICES OREVEN SURGERY, IF THE
  • 00:29:52.849 --> 00:29:55.852
  • GOVERNMENT DEEMSSOMETHING ESSENTIAL,
  • 00:29:55.852 --> 00:29:58.221
  • THERE'S A FREE PASS TOCONTINUE OPERATING AS
  • 00:29:58.221 --> 00:30:01.191
  • NORMAL. SO REALLY, THEQUESTION BECOMES
  • 00:30:01.191 --> 00:30:04.327
  • WHAT IS ESSENTIAL?ARE YOU ESSENTIAL?
  • 00:30:04.327 --> 00:30:07.497
  • IS YOUR SERVICEESSENTIAL?
  • 00:30:07.497 --> 00:30:09.766
  • IS CHURCH ESSENTIAL?
  • 00:30:09.766 --> 00:30:12.035
  • PASTOR KEN GRAVES INBANGOR, MAINE, SUED THE
  • 00:30:12.035 --> 00:30:14.771
  • GOVERNOR OF HIS STATEBECAUSE THEY DEEMED
  • 00:30:14.771 --> 00:30:17.340
  • CHURCH SERVICES IN HISBUILDING AS NON-ESSENTIAL.
  • 00:30:17.340 --> 00:30:20.777
  • IN FACT, ACCORDING TO HISSTATE'S DEFINITION, THE
  • 00:30:20.777 --> 00:30:23.580
  • CHURCH CAN HOLD SECULARBUT NOT RELIGIOUS
  • 00:30:23.580 --> 00:30:26.783
  • MEETINGS IN THESAME BUILDING.
  • 00:30:26.783 --> 00:30:29.786
  • THE CHURCH CAN FEED,SHELTER AND PROVIDE
  • 00:30:29.786 --> 00:30:31.922
  • SOCIAL SERVICES TO ANUNLIMITED NUMBER OF
  • 00:30:31.922 --> 00:30:34.791
  • PEOPLE, BUT RELIGIOUSSERVICES REMAIN LIMITED
  • 00:30:34.791 --> 00:30:38.361
  • IN SIZE AND SCOPE.
  • 00:30:38.361 --> 00:30:40.463
  • ACCORDING TO PASTOR KEN,THIS SHOWED EXPLICIT
  • 00:30:40.463 --> 00:30:44.234
  • DISCRIMINATION AGAINSTRELIGIOUS GATHERINGS.
  • 00:30:44.234 --> 00:30:47.070
  • PASTOR KEN JOINS USTONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT HOW
  • 00:30:47.070 --> 00:30:50.140
  • ESSENTIAL THE CHURCH IS.WELCOME KEN.
  • 00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:54.377
  • - THANK YOU. GOOD TOBE HERE WITH YOU.
  • 00:30:54.377 --> 00:30:56.179
  • - SO TELL ME, IS YOURCHURCH ESSENTIAL?
  • 00:30:56.179 --> 00:31:00.250
  • - IS IT ESSENTIAL?
  • 00:31:00.250 --> 00:31:02.419
  • IT IS A PRESUMPTUOUS THINGFOR ANY TYRANT TO
  • 00:31:02.419 --> 00:31:04.888
  • SUDDENLY DETERMINE THATANYONE'S ENTERPRISE,
  • 00:31:04.888 --> 00:31:07.490
  • IMAGINE SOMEBODY SAYING THATYOUR HOME IS NOT ESSENTIAL
  • 00:31:07.490 --> 00:31:11.261
  • OR YOUR FOOD ISNOT ESSENTIAL.
  • 00:31:11.261 --> 00:31:12.996
  • WHAT THE ABOUT THEMEANS FOR PAYING FOR
  • 00:31:12.996 --> 00:31:15.065
  • THAT HOME AND THAT FOOD?
  • 00:31:15.065 --> 00:31:17.200
  • I REALLY HAVE TAKENEXCEPTION TO THE FACT
  • 00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.136
  • THAT JESUS CHRISTCONSIDERS THE CHURCH SO
  • 00:31:20.136 --> 00:31:23.907
  • ESSENTIAL THAT HE WOULDDIE FOR IT, AND THAT A
  • 00:31:23.907 --> 00:31:26.710
  • GOVERNMENT OFFICIALPRESUMPTUOUSLY DETERMINES
  • 00:31:26.710 --> 00:31:29.879
  • THAT IT'S NOT,IT'S NOT NECESSARY.
  • 00:31:29.879 --> 00:31:33.116
  • THE IRONY IS, TOM, THATOUR PEOPLE CAN GATHER,
  • 00:31:33.116 --> 00:31:35.819
  • THEY CAN GATHER FORPURPOSES THAT THE
  • 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:37.787
  • GOVERNMENT ALLOWS.
  • 00:31:37.787 --> 00:31:39.255
  • WE WORK WITHDRUG ADDICTS.
  • 00:31:39.255 --> 00:31:40.857
  • THEY ALLOW USTO CONTINUE.
  • 00:31:40.857 --> 00:31:42.292
  • EVEN DURING THE STRICTESTEARLY SEASON OF SHUTDOWN,
  • 00:31:42.292 --> 00:31:47.430
  • WE WERE ALLOWED BYTHE GOVERNMENT, OUR
  • 00:31:47.430 --> 00:31:49.966
  • GOVERNOR'S GUIDELINES TOACTUALLY CONTINUE OUR
  • 00:31:49.966 --> 00:31:53.003
  • WORK WITH DRUG ADDICTS,AND THAT INVOLVES
  • 00:31:53.003 --> 00:31:54.804
  • BRINGING THEM ALLTOGETHER
  • 00:31:54.804 --> 00:31:56.639
  • AND INSTRUCTING THEM.
  • 00:31:56.639 --> 00:31:58.308
  • BASICALLY, WE'RE DOINGCHURCH WITH THE DRUG
  • 00:31:58.308 --> 00:32:00.744
  • ADDICTS. THEY WERE ESSENTIAL.
  • 00:32:00.744 --> 00:32:04.080
  • BUT THE REST OF OURCONGREGATION HAD TO BE
  • 00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.216
  • KEPT OFF THE PROPERTYAND OUTSIDE OUR DOORS.
  • 00:32:06.216 --> 00:32:08.952
  • THAT ONLY LASTED ABOUTFOUR WEEKS FOR US BEFORE
  • 00:32:08.952 --> 00:32:11.388
  • WE SAID, WE'RE TRYING TOGET OUR FEET UNDER THIS
  • 00:32:11.388 --> 00:32:13.590
  • EARLY ON. WE SAIDTHIS CANNOT STAND.
  • 00:32:13.590 --> 00:32:16.593
  • OUR PEOPLE CAN GATHER ASLONG AS THAT GATHERING
  • 00:32:16.593 --> 00:32:18.995
  • WAS OVER AT WALMART.
  • 00:32:18.995 --> 00:32:20.864
  • THEY COULD GATHER FOR THENECESSARY COMMERCE BUT
  • 00:32:20.864 --> 00:32:23.967
  • NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OFHEARING THE WORD OF GOD.
  • 00:32:23.967 --> 00:32:27.670
  • THIS WAS BLATANTDISCRIMINATION.
  • 00:32:27.670 --> 00:32:30.673
  • - WOW.
  • 00:32:30.673 --> 00:32:31.841
  • AND HOW DID YOU COME INCONTACT WITH MATT STAVER
  • 00:32:31.841 --> 00:32:34.344
  • AND LIBERTY COUNSEL?
  • 00:32:34.344 --> 00:32:35.445
  • DID YOU GUYS KNOW EACHOTHER PRIOR TO THIS?
  • 00:32:35.445 --> 00:32:37.914
  • - I'M GRATEFUL TO HAVE AFRIEND LIKE MATT STAVER
  • 00:32:37.914 --> 00:32:42.419
  • AND GRATEFUL THAT I HADHIS CELL PHONE NUMBER IN
  • 00:32:42.419 --> 00:32:45.255
  • MY PHONE, AND I HAD TOCALL AND MAKE MY CASE,
  • 00:32:45.255 --> 00:32:49.692
  • WHAT WE'REDEALING WITH HERE.
  • 00:32:49.692 --> 00:32:50.760
  • THEY HAD TO EXPLAIN TO MEMANY THINGS THAT I DID
  • 00:32:50.760 --> 00:32:53.363
  • NOT KNOW, THAT I DID NOTKNOW THAT WERE PART OF
  • 00:32:53.363 --> 00:32:55.532
  • THE FIRST CIRCUITCOURT OF APPEALS.
  • 00:32:55.532 --> 00:32:57.667
  • WE'RE IN THE NORTHEASTCORNER, AND WE ARE UNDER
  • 00:32:57.667 --> 00:33:00.570
  • THE RULE OF THE SECONDMOST LIBERAL COURT IN
  • 00:33:00.570 --> 00:33:04.641
  • AMERICA, SO THAT WOULDINVOLVE TIME, RESOURCES,
  • 00:33:04.641 --> 00:33:09.412
  • AND I'M GRATEFUL FORLIBERTY COUNSEL.
  • 00:33:09.412 --> 00:33:11.347
  • THEY SAID GIVE US ACOUPLE OF DAYS TO FIGURE
  • 00:33:11.347 --> 00:33:12.949
  • THIS OUT AND TALK ANDPRAY, YOU PRAY, AND THEN
  • 00:33:12.949 --> 00:33:15.819
  • WE'LL DETERMINE WHETHEROR NOT WE CAN DO IT.
  • 00:33:15.819 --> 00:33:17.387
  • HE CALLED ME BACK UP ANDSAID ARE YOU READY TO
  • 00:33:17.387 --> 00:33:18.755
  • SUE THE GOVERNOR? ANDI SAID I AM SO READY.
  • 00:33:18.755 --> 00:33:22.225
  • - MATT, TELL US ABOUTTHAT PHONE CALL.
  • 00:33:22.225 --> 00:33:25.095
  • - WELL, PASTOR KEN WE'VEKNOWN FOR A LONG TIME.
  • 00:33:25.095 --> 00:33:28.298
  • HE'S BEEN A GREAT FRIEND,AND I'VE ALWAYS ADMIRED
  • 00:33:28.298 --> 00:33:30.400
  • THE FACT THAT HE PREACHESTHE WORD OF GOD IN SEASON
  • 00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.036
  • AND OUT OF SEASON. AND ONCEHE MADE THAT DECISION,
  • 00:33:33.036 --> 00:33:36.372
  • HE WAS READY TO GO.
  • 00:33:36.372 --> 00:33:37.540
  • I THINK TOM, KEN'S CASEREALLY UNDERSCORES THIS
  • 00:33:37.540 --> 00:33:41.478
  • DISCRIMINATION BECAUSEAS HE SAID, HE HAS
  • 00:33:41.478 --> 00:33:44.380
  • A PROGRAM THAT'S ARESIDENTIAL PROGRAM.
  • 00:33:44.380 --> 00:33:46.749
  • IT'S A YEARLONG FORSUBSTANCE ABUSE INDIVIDUALS.
  • 00:33:46.749 --> 00:33:50.520
  • HE'S GOT A HOUSE FOR24 WOMEN, 24 MEN.
  • 00:33:50.520 --> 00:33:54.224
  • THEY COULD MEET IN THECHURCH, BUT THE QUESTION
  • 00:33:54.224 --> 00:33:56.826
  • IS COULD THEY WORSHIP?WORSHIP WAS BANNED.
  • 00:33:56.826 --> 00:33:59.229
  • BUT NOBODY ELSE WAS ABLE TOCOME THERE AND WORSHIP.
  • 00:33:59.229 --> 00:34:02.465
  • SO YOU HAD THIS ONE SIZEFITS ALL TEMPLATE THAT
  • 00:34:02.465 --> 00:34:05.835
  • THE GOVERNOR AND OTHERGOVERNORS WERE PUTTING ON
  • 00:34:05.835 --> 00:34:08.204
  • ALL CHURCHES BECAUSE OFTHEIR WRONG VIEW OF
  • 00:34:08.204 --> 00:34:11.007
  • WHAT A CHURCH IS.
  • 00:34:11.007 --> 00:34:12.542
  • THE CHURCH THERE ISCRITICALLY ESSENTIAL BECAUSE
  • 00:34:12.542 --> 00:34:15.044
  • IT IS THE HOME, IT'STHE FAMILY OF THESE PEOPLE.
  • 00:34:15.044 --> 00:34:17.647
  • - WOW. PASTOR KEN, WHATADDITIONAL AFFECTS HAVE
  • 00:34:17.647 --> 00:34:20.650
  • YOU SEEN IN YOURCOMMUNITY AS A RESULT
  • 00:34:20.650 --> 00:34:22.752
  • OF COVID ANDRESTRICTIONS THERE?
  • 00:34:22.752 --> 00:34:25.255
  • - DEFINITELY THE RESULTOF THE GOVERNMENT'S
  • 00:34:25.255 --> 00:34:29.025
  • RESPONSE TO COVID HASGENERATED POVERTY.
  • 00:34:29.025 --> 00:34:33.329
  • THE DRUG ADDICTIONRATE HAS SKYROCKETED.
  • 00:34:33.329 --> 00:34:37.901
  • DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHSFAR EXCEED THE DEATHS
  • 00:34:37.901 --> 00:34:41.804
  • THAT THEY WANT TOATTRIBUTE TO COVID.
  • 00:34:41.804 --> 00:34:44.574
  • OF COURSE WE KNOW THATGAME THAT THEY PLAY, THE
  • 00:34:44.574 --> 00:34:46.543
  • DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "DYINGWITH" OR "DYING FROM"
  • 00:34:46.543 --> 00:34:50.013
  • COVID. TWO DIFFERENTREALITIES.
  • 00:34:50.013 --> 00:34:51.981
  • BUT EVEN THEIR NUMBERSEXAGGERATED, AS I BELIEVE
  • 00:34:51.981 --> 00:34:54.184
  • THEY ARE, DO NOT COMECLOSE TO THE NUMBERS OF
  • 00:34:54.184 --> 00:34:57.854
  • DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHSTHAT HAVE BEEN THE
  • 00:34:57.854 --> 00:35:00.657
  • RESULT OF THE LOCK DOWN.
  • 00:35:00.657 --> 00:35:02.759
  • - WOW.
  • 00:35:02.759 --> 00:35:03.893
  • SO KEN, HOW IS YOURCHURCH RESPONDING TO THE
  • 00:35:03.893 --> 00:35:07.197
  • GOVERNOR'S ORDERS NOW?
  • 00:35:07.197 --> 00:35:09.098
  • WHAT HAS HAPPENED AS ARESULT OF YOU GOING TO
  • 00:35:09.098 --> 00:35:11.534
  • COURT ALONG WITH MATTSTAVER REPRESENTING YOU?
  • 00:35:11.534 --> 00:35:15.305
  • HOW ARE THINGS NOW?WHAT'S GOING ON?
  • 00:35:15.305 --> 00:35:18.608
  • - WELL, WE HAVE BEEN FREE.
  • 00:35:18.608 --> 00:35:20.443
  • WE HAVE BEEN UN-HARASSEDWHILE THIS HAS MADE ITS
  • 00:35:20.443 --> 00:35:24.147
  • WAY THROUGH THE COURTS. WEWENT FIRST TO THE U.S.
  • 00:35:24.147 --> 00:35:26.082
  • DISTRICT COURT WHEREDENIED QUICKLY.
  • 00:35:26.082 --> 00:35:29.085
  • JUSTICE IN OUR CAUSE.
  • 00:35:29.085 --> 00:35:30.420
  • WE MADE OUR APPEAL TO THEFIRST CIRCUIT COURT OF
  • 00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.422
  • APPEALS, AND THEY TOOKMONTHS TO HEAR THE CASE.
  • 00:35:32.422 --> 00:35:35.291
  • THEN AFTER HEARING OURARGUMENTS, THEY TOOK
  • 00:35:35.291 --> 00:35:37.393
  • MONTHS TO KICK THECASE BACK TO THE
  • 00:35:37.393 --> 00:35:39.662
  • U.S. DISTRICT COURT.BUT IN THE MEANTIME,
  • 00:35:39.662 --> 00:35:42.165
  • OUR GOVERNMENT HASLEFT US ALONE.
  • 00:35:42.165 --> 00:35:44.867
  • WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE HEREWHERE WE LIVE THAT OUR
  • 00:35:44.867 --> 00:35:47.670
  • COUNTY SHERIFF HAPPENS TOBE A GOOD FRIEND OF OURS.
  • 00:35:47.670 --> 00:35:50.073
  • HE ALSO SHARES OURCONVICTION WITH REGARD TO
  • 00:35:50.073 --> 00:35:52.475
  • OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTTO FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS
  • 00:35:52.475 --> 00:35:55.078
  • AND THE RIGHT TOPEACEFUL ASSEMBLY.
  • 00:35:55.078 --> 00:35:57.380
  • SO THOUGH I BELIEVE HEHAS BEEN PRESSURED TO
  • 00:35:57.380 --> 00:36:00.350
  • TAKE ACTION AGAINST US,NO ACTION HAS BEEN
  • 00:36:00.350 --> 00:36:02.585
  • TAKEN, SO WE CONTINUE.
  • 00:36:02.585 --> 00:36:04.020
  • WE FOLLOW SAFETYPROTOCOLS, BUT WE'VE NOT
  • 00:36:04.020 --> 00:36:07.857
  • LIMITED OUR NUMBERS ORDONE ANY OF THE THINGS
  • 00:36:07.857 --> 00:36:11.928
  • THAT THE GOVERNMENT HASIMPOSED UPON ALL THE
  • 00:36:11.928 --> 00:36:13.896
  • CHURCHES, WHICH TO ME TOMREVEALS THAT MOST OF WHAT
  • 00:36:13.896 --> 00:36:17.867
  • THE GOVERNMENT IS DOINGAROUND THIS COUNTRY IS
  • 00:36:17.867 --> 00:36:21.437
  • BLUFF. THEY'RE DOINGIT BECAUSE PEOPLE,
  • 00:36:21.437 --> 00:36:23.306
  • CHURCHES WILL COMPLY.
  • 00:36:23.306 --> 00:36:25.241
  • - PASTOR KEN, WHAT WOULDYOU SAY TO CHRISTIANS WHO
  • 00:36:25.241 --> 00:36:27.543
  • ARE TUNING IN WATCHINGTHIS BROADCAST TONIGHT.
  • 00:36:27.543 --> 00:36:29.812
  • WHY IS IT IMPORTANTTO TAKE A STAND?
  • 00:36:29.812 --> 00:36:32.382
  • - THAT HAS BEEN ASTRUGGLE FOR ME TOM,
  • 00:36:32.382 --> 00:36:34.250
  • HONESTLY, TO ANSWER THATGRACIOUSLY, TO ALLOW FOR
  • 00:36:34.250 --> 00:36:39.122
  • THE FACT THAT WE'VE GOTTWO AND A HALF CENTURIES
  • 00:36:39.122 --> 00:36:41.691
  • OF AMERICAN PASTORSBEING ABLE TO TRUST
  • 00:36:41.691 --> 00:36:44.327
  • OUR GOVERNMENT, ANDTHERE IS NO SORT OF
  • 00:36:44.327 --> 00:36:47.830
  • INSTINCT TO REBEL.
  • 00:36:47.830 --> 00:36:49.999
  • OUR PASTORS UNDERSTANDROMANS CHAPTER 13,
  • 00:36:49.999 --> 00:36:54.737
  • 1 PETER CHAPTER 2, AND THEADMONITION TO BE GOOD
  • 00:36:54.737 --> 00:36:57.407
  • CITIZENS AND OBEY THE LAWTO SUCH A DEGREE THAT
  • 00:36:57.407 --> 00:37:01.411
  • THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE THATTHE LAW IS SOMETHING, THE
  • 00:37:01.411 --> 00:37:04.914
  • GOVERNMENT HAS STEPPEDOUT FROM UNDER THE
  • 00:37:04.914 --> 00:37:07.483
  • AUTHORITY OF THE UNITEDSTATES CONSTITUTION.
  • 00:37:07.483 --> 00:37:11.020
  • IT IS THERE THAT IBELIEVE OUR CHOICE MUST
  • 00:37:11.020 --> 00:37:14.157
  • BE THAT WE WILL, IN THEAPPLICATION OF SCRIPTURE,
  • 00:37:14.157 --> 00:37:18.628
  • BEING OBEDIENT TO OURGOVERNMENT, CHOOSE BETTER
  • 00:37:18.628 --> 00:37:23.700
  • TO OBEY THE CONSTITUTIONTHAN TO OBEY THOSE
  • 00:37:23.700 --> 00:37:26.803
  • TYRANTS WHO HAVESTEPPED OUT FROM
  • 00:37:26.803 --> 00:37:28.304
  • UNDER THAT CONSTITUTION.
  • 00:37:28.304 --> 00:37:29.806
  • I REALLY THINK THAT ATTHE ISSUE OF SORT OF THE
  • 00:37:29.806 --> 00:37:32.542
  • DOCTRINAL THEOLOGICALDIVISION THAT MIGHT BE
  • 00:37:32.542 --> 00:37:35.778
  • GOING ON BETWEENCHRISTIANS IS THAT
  • 00:37:35.778 --> 00:37:38.681
  • UNDERSTANDING OF EXACTLYWHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO
  • 00:37:38.681 --> 00:37:40.550
  • BE IN SUBMISSION TO.
  • 00:37:40.550 --> 00:37:41.884
  • - WOW.
  • 00:37:41.884 --> 00:37:43.019
  • PASTOR KEN, THANK YOU SOMUCH FOR YOUR STAND, FOR
  • 00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.288
  • YOUR CONTRIBUTION TOTONIGHT, AND FOR HELPING
  • 00:37:45.288 --> 00:37:47.724
  • OTHERS NOT ONLY WATCHWHAT YOU ARE DOING TO
  • 00:37:47.724 --> 00:37:50.560
  • TAKE A STAND, BECAUSEWHEN THAT LAW GETS
  • 00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:53.029
  • WRITTEN LIKE THAT, WHENYOU OVERTURN THOSE
  • 00:37:53.029 --> 00:37:54.964
  • THINGS, THAT OPENSUP FREEDOM TO MANY.
  • 00:37:54.964 --> 00:37:57.133
  • SO THANK YOU FOR BEING ACHAMPION OF FREEDOM AND
  • 00:37:57.133 --> 00:38:00.336
  • STANDING FOR YOUR RIGHTS.
  • 00:38:00.336 --> 00:38:01.537
  • IT MEANS THE WORLD.
  • 00:38:01.537 --> 00:38:03.039
  • - HONORED.- BLESSING.
  • 00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:05.541
  • SO ONE NATION UNDER GOD.
  • 00:38:05.541 --> 00:38:07.543
  • WHEN THE NATION DOESN'TACT LIKE IT'S UNDER GOD,
  • 00:38:07.543 --> 00:38:10.646
  • WHAT DO WE DO MATT?
  • 00:38:10.646 --> 00:38:12.248
  • - WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK ATROMANS 13, IT TALKS ABOUT
  • 00:38:12.248 --> 00:38:14.417
  • OBEYING THE RULERS, BUTIT TALKS ALSO ABOUT WHAT
  • 00:38:14.417 --> 00:38:17.053
  • THE PURPOSE OF GOVERNMENTIS, AND THAT IS TO PUNISH
  • 00:38:17.053 --> 00:38:19.622
  • THE EVIL DOER ANDPROTECT THE GOOD.
  • 00:38:19.622 --> 00:38:22.258
  • AND JESUS SAYS RENDER TOCAESAR WHAT BELONGS TO
  • 00:38:22.258 --> 00:38:26.095
  • CAESAR. YOU MAY NOT LIKETO PAY TAXES, BUT YOU
  • 00:38:26.095 --> 00:38:28.231
  • STILL NEED TO PAY TAXES.
  • 00:38:28.231 --> 00:38:30.466
  • BUT UNTO GOD WHATBELONGS TO GOD.
  • 00:38:30.466 --> 00:38:32.368
  • AND THE CHURCH ISBELONGING TO GOD.
  • 00:38:32.368 --> 00:38:35.505
  • AND AS PASTOR KEN SORIGHTLY SAID, JESUS GAVE
  • 00:38:35.505 --> 00:38:39.108
  • HIS LIFE FOR THE CHURCH.
  • 00:38:39.108 --> 00:38:41.077
  • THAT MAKES ITBEYOND ESSENTIAL.
  • 00:38:41.077 --> 00:38:43.212
  • IT'S ALWAYS BEENESSENTIAL FOR 2.000 YEARS
  • 00:38:43.212 --> 00:38:45.081
  • BUT IT'S EVEN MOREESSENTIAL NOW DURING THIS
  • 00:38:45.081 --> 00:38:47.583
  • PANDEMIC BECAUSE INKEN'S STATE, AS HE SAID,
  • 00:38:47.583 --> 00:38:51.654
  • SUICIDE AND DEPRESSIONHAVE INCREASED.
  • 00:38:51.654 --> 00:38:53.689
  • THERE'S A TRAGIC STORYOF A 16 YEAR OLD BOY,
  • 00:38:53.689 --> 00:38:56.225
  • BECAUSE OF ISOLATION,NOT BEING ABLE TO GO TO
  • 00:38:56.225 --> 00:38:59.896
  • EITHER CHURCH OR TOSCHOOL, JUST ENDED UP
  • 00:38:59.896 --> 00:39:03.299
  • TAKING HIS LIFE.
  • 00:39:03.299 --> 00:39:04.634
  • AND WE'VE SEEN THOSENUMBERS TRAGICALLY
  • 00:39:04.634 --> 00:39:07.437
  • INCREASE ACROSSTHE COUNTRY.
  • 00:39:07.437 --> 00:39:08.938
  • THERE'S ONLY ONE GROUPIN THE COUNTRY THAT WE
  • 00:39:08.938 --> 00:39:11.974
  • HAVEN'T SEEN AN INCREASEIN MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS
  • 00:39:11.974 --> 00:39:15.278
  • AND THAT IS INDIVIDUALSWHO REGULARLY ATTEND
  • 00:39:15.278 --> 00:39:17.613
  • CHURCH IN 2020 COMPAREDTO 2019, AND THAT MAKES A
  • 00:39:17.613 --> 00:39:22.785
  • DIFFERENCE. THAT'S WHY IT'S--
  • 00:39:22.785 --> 00:39:24.720
  • - THAT'S DOCUMENTED?
  • 00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:26.189
  • - IT'S DOCUMENTED BYTHE CENTERS FOR DISEASE
  • 00:39:26.189 --> 00:39:28.291
  • CONTROL, IT'S DOCUMENTEDBY VARIOUS KINDS OF
  • 00:39:28.291 --> 00:39:30.993
  • RESEARCH THAT HAS BEENDONE OVER MANY YEARS.
  • 00:39:30.993 --> 00:39:33.629
  • - SAY THATONE MORE TIME.
  • 00:39:33.629 --> 00:39:34.964
  • I DON'T WANT THAT TO JUSTBLOW BY SOMEBODY'S--
  • 00:39:34.964 --> 00:39:37.233
  • - THE GALLUP POLL SAYS,AND IT'S BEEN DOING
  • 00:39:37.233 --> 00:39:40.937
  • THESE POLLS EVERY YEARREGARDING MENTAL HEALTH
  • 00:39:40.937 --> 00:39:43.372
  • AND CERTAINLY THOSETHAT ATTEND CHURCH, AND
  • 00:39:43.372 --> 00:39:45.741
  • THERE'S ONLY ONE CATEGORYOF PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN
  • 00:39:45.741 --> 00:39:48.644
  • SURVEYED IN 2020 THATDID NOT HAVE A DECREASE,
  • 00:39:48.644 --> 00:39:52.381
  • DECLINE IN MENTAL HEALTH.
  • 00:39:52.381 --> 00:39:53.616
  • IN FACT, THEY HAD ANINCREASE IN MENTAL
  • 00:39:53.616 --> 00:39:55.251
  • HEALTH, AND THAT ISPEOPLE WHO REGULARLY
  • 00:39:55.251 --> 00:39:57.320
  • ATTEND CHURCH. EVERYBODY ELSE,
  • 00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:59.956
  • ALL THE DIFFERENTAGE GROUPS, ALL
  • 00:39:59.956 --> 00:40:01.791
  • THE DIFFERENTDEMOGRAPHICS AND RACES
  • 00:40:01.791 --> 00:40:03.759
  • AND ETHNICITY HAD ASIGNIFICANT DECREASE.
  • 00:40:03.759 --> 00:40:06.462
  • AND THERE'S A TRAGICAMOUNT OF INDIVIDUALS,
  • 00:40:06.462 --> 00:40:09.131
  • EVEN YOUNG PEOPLE, 18 TO24, AND EVEN THOSE FROM
  • 00:40:09.131 --> 00:40:12.602
  • ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ONUP WHO HAVE CONSIDERED
  • 00:40:12.602 --> 00:40:15.271
  • SUICIDE OR WHO HAVEACTUALLY COMMITTED
  • 00:40:15.271 --> 00:40:18.508
  • SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THISISOLATION AND DEPRESSION.
  • 00:40:18.508 --> 00:40:20.776
  • - THOSE FIGURES ALONEWOULD SEEM TO ME TO MAKE
  • 00:40:20.776 --> 00:40:24.847
  • THE CHURCH TO BEDEEMED ESSENTIAL.
  • 00:40:24.847 --> 00:40:27.617
  • MATT, LET'S GET ONTO OUR NEXT PASTOR.
  • 00:40:27.617 --> 00:40:30.520
  • IN THE FALL, WE BROUGHTYOU A STORY THAT SOUNDED
  • 00:40:30.520 --> 00:40:33.289
  • MORE LIKE A COLD WAR SPYNOVEL THAN A MODERN-DAY
  • 00:40:33.289 --> 00:40:36.726
  • AMERICAN HEADLINE.
  • 00:40:36.726 --> 00:40:38.427
  • PASTOR CRISTIAN IONESCUMOVED HIS FAMILY FROM
  • 00:40:38.427 --> 00:40:41.430
  • ROMANIA TO THE UNITEDSTATES AFTER EXPERIENCING
  • 00:40:41.430 --> 00:40:43.966
  • THE TERRORS OFTHE COLD WAR.
  • 00:40:43.966 --> 00:40:46.636
  • NOW HE LIVES AND PASTORSIN CHICAGO, BUT IT SEEMS
  • 00:40:46.636 --> 00:40:50.106
  • LIKE HE IS RELIVING THESOVIET ERA RESTRICTIONS
  • 00:40:50.106 --> 00:40:54.043
  • ON WORSHIP ALLOVER AGAIN.
  • 00:40:54.043 --> 00:40:56.345
  • LISTEN TO THIS SECRETPOLICE STAKING OUT CHURCH
  • 00:40:56.345 --> 00:40:59.882
  • GATHERINGS, PASTORS BEINGPUBLICLY PRESSURED BY
  • 00:40:59.882 --> 00:41:02.418
  • LOCAL OFFICIALS,ROADBLOCKS SET UP IN
  • 00:41:02.418 --> 00:41:04.987
  • NEIGHBORHOODS PREVENTINGPEOPLE FROM PARKING
  • 00:41:04.987 --> 00:41:08.324
  • ANYWHERE NEAR HISCHURCH SERVICE.
  • 00:41:08.324 --> 00:41:10.326
  • THESE ARE NOT HEADLINESFROM COMMUNIST CHINA OR
  • 00:41:10.326 --> 00:41:13.462
  • STALIN'S SOVIET UNION,BUT THIS IS WHAT PASTOR
  • 00:41:13.462 --> 00:41:17.199
  • CRISTIAN IS FACINGIN CHICAGO TONIGHT.
  • 00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:20.303
  • PASTOR CRISTIANIONESCU JOINS US NOW.
  • 00:41:20.303 --> 00:41:23.606
  • PASTOR, WHEN WE TALKED INTHE FALL, THE CITY HAD
  • 00:41:23.606 --> 00:41:26.208
  • IMPOSED STRICT RESTRICTIONSON YOUR SERVICES.
  • 00:41:26.208 --> 00:41:29.245
  • TELL ME WHAT IS GOING ONIN CHICAGO, AND WHAT HAS
  • 00:41:29.245 --> 00:41:32.315
  • THE CITY DONE TO KEEPYOUR CONGREGANTS FROM
  • 00:41:32.315 --> 00:41:35.618
  • ATTENDING YOUR CHURCH?
  • 00:41:35.618 --> 00:41:37.620
  • - WELL, THE LAST THINGTHEY DID WAS DELAY OUR
  • 00:41:37.620 --> 00:41:42.458
  • COURT CASE WHERE THEYGAVE US CITATIONS FOR
  • 00:41:42.458 --> 00:41:48.164
  • DISORDERLY CONDUCTAND MOB ACTION.
  • 00:41:48.164 --> 00:41:51.934
  • AND WE'VE BEEN DELAYEDMONTH TO MONTH,
  • 00:41:51.934 --> 00:41:57.640
  • AND NOW WE HAVE A COURTCASE HEARING HERE
  • 00:41:57.640 --> 00:42:01.444
  • IN CHICAGO IN FEBRUARY.
  • 00:42:01.444 --> 00:42:04.480
  • IN THE MEANTIME, BY THEGRACE OF THE LORD AND
  • 00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.084
  • WITH THE HELP OF OURFRIENDS AT LIBERTY
  • 00:42:08.084 --> 00:42:10.720
  • COUNSEL, WE'RE MOVINGFORWARD WITH OUR CASE
  • 00:42:10.720 --> 00:42:13.289
  • AGAINST THE GOVERNOR.
  • 00:42:13.289 --> 00:42:14.657
  • WE ARE WAITING FORA HEARING AT
  • 00:42:14.657 --> 00:42:18.394
  • THE SUPREME COURT.
  • 00:42:18.394 --> 00:42:19.829
  • - YOU FLED FROMCOMMUNISM TO COME TO THE
  • 00:42:19.829 --> 00:42:21.797
  • UNITED STATES, SO HOWDOES YOUR EXPERIENCE
  • 00:42:21.797 --> 00:42:24.867
  • WITH THESE RESTRICTIONSCOMPARE TO
  • 00:42:24.867 --> 00:42:26.769
  • WHAT YOU FLED FROM?
  • 00:42:26.769 --> 00:42:28.337
  • - WELL, I THINK WHAT WESEE HERE IS THE BEGINNING
  • 00:42:28.337 --> 00:42:32.141
  • STAGES OF SOCIALISM.
  • 00:42:32.141 --> 00:42:37.546
  • IT COMES IN FORMS OF JUSTCONVINCING THE POPULATION
  • 00:42:37.546 --> 00:42:44.086
  • THAT THEY ARE RIGHT ANDTHEY WANT THE GOOD,
  • 00:42:44.086 --> 00:42:46.689
  • THE COMMON GOODFOR EVERYBODY.
  • 00:42:46.689 --> 00:42:49.325
  • IN THE MEANTIME,THERE ARE A LOT OF
  • 00:42:49.325 --> 00:42:52.094
  • COVERT OPERATIONS ANDDECEIVING AND LYING.
  • 00:42:52.094 --> 00:42:56.799
  • WHENEVER YOU HAVE AGOVERNMENT, WHATEVER THE
  • 00:42:56.799 --> 00:42:59.869
  • NUANCE IS, WHEN THEY WANTTO IMPOSE SOMETHING THAT
  • 00:42:59.869 --> 00:43:05.241
  • THE POPULATION WOULDREJECT OUTRIGHT, THEY
  • 00:43:05.241 --> 00:43:09.879
  • HAVE TO EMPLOY ALL KINDSOF STRATEGIES AND TACTICS
  • 00:43:09.879 --> 00:43:16.085
  • TO DECEIVE THEPOPULATION, TO ELIMINATE
  • 00:43:16.085 --> 00:43:20.690
  • THE OPPOSITION ONE WAY ORANOTHER, TO DISCREDIT
  • 00:43:20.690 --> 00:43:23.826
  • THE OPPOSITION ANDTHIS IS WHAT THEY
  • 00:43:23.826 --> 00:43:26.295
  • ARE DOING RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:43:26.295 --> 00:43:27.530
  • - SO MATT, YOU REPRESENTPASTOR CRISTIAN,
  • 00:43:27.530 --> 00:43:31.600
  • SO WHAT IS THIS BATTLE?WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?
  • 00:43:31.600 --> 00:43:34.403
  • - WELL, IF YOU LOOK ATWHAT HAPPENED IN CHICAGO
  • 00:43:34.403 --> 00:43:36.138
  • WITH ELIM ROMANIANPENTECOSTAL CHURCH AND
  • 00:43:36.138 --> 00:43:38.107
  • LOGOS BAPTIST MINISTRIES THATWE REPRESENT, THEY DID A
  • 00:43:38.107 --> 00:43:41.944
  • LOT OF HARASSMENT, FOREXAMPLE THEY FIRST OF ALL
  • 00:43:41.944 --> 00:43:45.981
  • TOWED ALL THE CARS AROUNDTHE CHURCH FOR NINE BLOCKS.
  • 00:43:45.981 --> 00:43:49.351
  • THIS WAS STREET PARKINGOF A RESIDENTIAL
  • 00:43:49.351 --> 00:43:51.987
  • NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THECHURCH DIDN'T USE STREET
  • 00:43:51.987 --> 00:43:54.256
  • PARKING, BUT WE SAW THEMTOW THE CARS AND THESE
  • 00:43:54.256 --> 00:43:57.893
  • RESIDENTS HAD THEIRCARS IMPOUNDED.
  • 00:43:57.893 --> 00:44:00.396
  • THEN THEY SENT LETTERS TOTHE RESIDENTS SAYING THE
  • 00:44:00.396 --> 00:44:02.531
  • REASON WHY YOUR CAR HASBEEN TOWED AND YOU CAN'T
  • 00:44:02.531 --> 00:44:04.633
  • PARK IN FRONT OF YOURHOUSE IS BECAUSE THIS
  • 00:44:04.633 --> 00:44:07.303
  • CHURCH IS DISOBEYING THEGOVERNOR'S ORDERS, WHICH
  • 00:44:07.303 --> 00:44:09.505
  • AT THE TIME WAS NOMORE THAN TEN PEOPLE.
  • 00:44:09.505 --> 00:44:11.373
  • WHEN THAT DIDN'T STOPTHIS ROMANIAN CHURCH,
  • 00:44:11.373 --> 00:44:14.777
  • THEN THEY HAD FIVE POLICECARS THAT BLOCKED THE
  • 00:44:14.777 --> 00:44:17.980
  • ENTRANCE TO THEIRPRIVATE PARKING LOT.
  • 00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:19.682
  • BUT THE PEOPLE, BEINGUSED TO PERSECUTION
  • 00:44:19.682 --> 00:44:23.519
  • EITHER DIRECTLY ORTHROUGH THEIR ANCESTORS
  • 00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:25.387
  • IN ROMANIA, THAT DIDN'TSTOP THEM EITHER.
  • 00:44:25.387 --> 00:44:27.890
  • THEY DROPPED OFF PARTS OFTHEIR FAMILY, THEY THEN
  • 00:44:27.890 --> 00:44:30.693
  • DROVE FOR NINE, TEN,ELEVEN BLOCKS, CAME BACK
  • 00:44:30.693 --> 00:44:33.963
  • IN RAIN AND FREEZINGCOLD AND WENT TO CHURCH.
  • 00:44:33.963 --> 00:44:37.266
  • WHEN THAT DIDN'T STOPTHEM, THEY CHARGED THE
  • 00:44:37.266 --> 00:44:39.635
  • PASTOR WITH DISORDERLYCONDUCT FOR HAVING
  • 00:44:39.635 --> 00:44:41.337
  • MORE THAN TEN PEOPLE.
  • 00:44:41.337 --> 00:44:42.638
  • WHEN THAT DIDN'T SHUTDOWN THE CHURCH, THEY
  • 00:44:42.638 --> 00:44:44.540
  • SENT THEM TWO LETTERSFROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH
  • 00:44:44.540 --> 00:44:46.208
  • DEPARTMENT. THE LAST ONESAID WE'RE GOING TO
  • 00:44:46.208 --> 00:44:48.377
  • EXECUTE SOME RE-ABATEMENT.
  • 00:44:48.377 --> 00:44:50.012
  • IN ILLINOIS THAT MEANSDESTROYING THE ACTUAL
  • 00:44:50.012 --> 00:44:52.114
  • BUILDING. THAT'S HOWEXTREME IT WAS.
  • 00:44:52.114 --> 00:44:55.384
  • - NOW WERE YOU INVOLVEDTHROUGH ALL THESE PHASES?
  • 00:44:55.384 --> 00:44:57.887
  • - YES, IN FACT IT WASAFTER THEY STARTED
  • 00:44:57.887 --> 00:44:59.622
  • WORSHIPPING AND THEY DIDALL KINDS OF MODEL SOCIAL
  • 00:44:59.622 --> 00:45:04.493
  • DISTANCING AND SANITIZINGTHAT SHOULD BE A MODEL
  • 00:45:04.493 --> 00:45:07.596
  • FOR EVERYONE ELSE, ANDYET THEY WERE OPPRESSED
  • 00:45:07.596 --> 00:45:10.399
  • AND THEY HAD THESEEXTREME ACTIONS BY THE
  • 00:45:10.399 --> 00:45:12.868
  • MAYOR AND THE GOVERNOR.
  • 00:45:12.868 --> 00:45:14.937
  • SO WHAT WE DID WASWE WENT TO THE U.S.
  • 00:45:14.937 --> 00:45:17.239
  • SUPREME COURT AND WITHINFOUR HOURS OF THEIR
  • 00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:19.909
  • RESPONSE, THAT'S WHENTHEY DID A 180
  • 00:45:19.909 --> 00:45:21.811
  • AND THEY REMOVED THERESTRICTIONS BECAUSE
  • 00:45:21.811 --> 00:45:23.679
  • THEY WANTED TO MAKE OUR--
  • 00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.481
  • - JUST YOU FILED WITHTHE SUPREME COURT.
  • 00:45:25.481 --> 00:45:27.516
  • - YEAH BECAUSE THEYDIDN'T WANT TO FACE WHAT
  • 00:45:27.516 --> 00:45:29.385
  • WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ATTHE U.S. SUPREME COURT.
  • 00:45:29.385 --> 00:45:31.520
  • BUT NOW WE'REBACK AT THE U.S.
  • 00:45:31.520 --> 00:45:33.355
  • SUPREME COURT BECAUSE WEHAVE A FINAL DECISION OF
  • 00:45:33.355 --> 00:45:35.324
  • THE CASE, AND IT'S THEFIRST CASE TO BE ACTUALLY
  • 00:45:35.324 --> 00:45:38.527
  • HEARD IN THE NEAR FUTUREHOPEFULLY BY THE
  • 00:45:38.527 --> 00:45:40.663
  • U.S. SUPREME COURT.
  • 00:45:40.663 --> 00:45:42.031
  • AND ISN'T IT AMAZING,TOM, THAT WE HAVE
  • 00:45:42.031 --> 00:45:44.767
  • ROMANIAN IMMIGRANTSWHO LOVE AMERICA, WHO
  • 00:45:44.767 --> 00:45:47.636
  • IMMIGRATED HERE TO FLEESOCIALISM IN ROMANIA,
  • 00:45:47.636 --> 00:45:51.040
  • AND NOW THEY'RE AT THESUPREME COURT DEFENDING
  • 00:45:51.040 --> 00:45:53.142
  • RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FORALL PEOPLE OF FAITH.
  • 00:45:53.142 --> 00:45:56.445
  • - SO PASTOR, IS THE CHURCHIN AMERICA IN TROUBLE?
  • 00:45:56.445 --> 00:46:00.649
  • - UM, I'M GOING TO BEVERY HONEST WITH YOU.
  • 00:46:00.649 --> 00:46:06.355
  • I AM A LITTLEDISAPPOINTED BY WHAT
  • 00:46:06.355 --> 00:46:09.158
  • I SEE IN CHURCHESIN AMERICA.
  • 00:46:09.158 --> 00:46:12.294
  • OUR CHURCH WILL CONTINUETO BE OPEN, AND LISTEN,
  • 00:46:12.294 --> 00:46:17.299
  • I UNDERSTAND THERESERVATIONS.
  • 00:46:17.299 --> 00:46:19.768
  • WE HAVE TO BE GRATEFUL TOOUR FRIENDS AT LIBERTY
  • 00:46:19.768 --> 00:46:22.638
  • COUNSEL AND MATT STAVERPARTICULARLY AND OUR
  • 00:46:22.638 --> 00:46:27.076
  • FRIEND HARRY BECAUSETHEY STOOD WITH US.
  • 00:46:27.076 --> 00:46:30.546
  • WHEN A CHURCH IS ATTACKEDBY THE GOVERNMENT, ONE OF
  • 00:46:30.546 --> 00:46:34.783
  • THE ARMS THEY NEED TOUSE TO GET OUT OF THAT
  • 00:46:34.783 --> 00:46:38.821
  • SITUATION ISTHE LEGAL ARM.
  • 00:46:38.821 --> 00:46:42.291
  • AND IF YOU DON'T HAVEGOOD REPRESENTATION, AND IF
  • 00:46:42.291 --> 00:46:45.694
  • YOU DON'T HAVE LIBERTYCOUNSEL ON YOUR SIDE, YOU
  • 00:46:45.694 --> 00:46:50.900
  • ARE FACED WITH TERRIBLECOSTS, AND SO I
  • 00:46:50.900 --> 00:46:55.237
  • UNDERSTAND WHY A LOTOF PASTORS WOULD HAVE
  • 00:46:55.237 --> 00:46:58.374
  • RESERVATIONS, BUT AT THESAME TIME, ONCE WE ARE AT
  • 00:46:58.374 --> 00:47:02.244
  • THE FOREFRONT OF THISMOVEMENT AND WE CAN
  • 00:47:02.244 --> 00:47:05.648
  • CREATE PRECEDENCE, I AMDISAPPOINTED THAT THE
  • 00:47:05.648 --> 00:47:09.652
  • AMERICAN CHURCHES ARENOT OPEN, MANY AMERICAN,
  • 00:47:09.652 --> 00:47:15.591
  • PROBABLY MOST AMERICANCHURCHES ARE NOT OPEN TO
  • 00:47:15.591 --> 00:47:18.894
  • CAPACITY. WE NEED TO STANDUP TO THE GOVERNMENT.
  • 00:47:18.894 --> 00:47:21.864
  • THE ROMANIAN CHURCH KNOWSTHAT IN ROMANIA, IF YOU
  • 00:47:21.864 --> 00:47:26.468
  • DON'T STEP UP TO THEPLATE, IF YOU DON'T STAND
  • 00:47:26.468 --> 00:47:30.039
  • UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS RIGHTIN THE BEGINNING, THEY'RE
  • 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:33.008
  • GOING TO TAKE CHUNKS OFYOUR LIBERTY, LITTLE BY
  • 00:47:33.008 --> 00:47:36.545
  • LITTLE AND PUSH YOUINTO A CORNER AND
  • 00:47:36.545 --> 00:47:39.081
  • PUSH YOU ON THE GROUND.
  • 00:47:39.081 --> 00:47:40.649
  • AND WE CAN SEE THISIN AMERICA RIGHT NOW.
  • 00:47:40.649 --> 00:47:45.788
  • CHURCHES, PASTORS ONTHEIR HEELS BENDING
  • 00:47:45.788 --> 00:47:49.291
  • BACKWARDS TRYINGTO SURVIVE.
  • 00:47:49.291 --> 00:47:51.860
  • THIS IS NO WAY YOU'REGOING TO COME OUT
  • 00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:54.630
  • WELL OUT OF THIS.
  • 00:47:54.630 --> 00:47:56.799
  • YOU HAVE TO STAND UP,YOU HAVE TO DEFEAT THE
  • 00:47:56.799 --> 00:48:00.169
  • SYSTEM, YOU HAVE TODISOBEY THE SYSTEM IN A
  • 00:48:00.169 --> 00:48:03.272
  • PEACEFUL MANNER, BUTYOU HAVE TO DO IT.
  • 00:48:03.272 --> 00:48:06.909
  • I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGHHOW GRATEFUL OUR CHURCH
  • 00:48:06.909 --> 00:48:11.447
  • AND MYSELF PERSONALLYARE TO MATT STAVER AND
  • 00:48:11.447 --> 00:48:14.717
  • LIBERTY COUNSEL FOR THEHELP THEY GAVE US, BUT WE
  • 00:48:14.717 --> 00:48:18.053
  • ARE IN THE PROCESS OFGIVING THE BLUEPRINT FOR
  • 00:48:18.053 --> 00:48:20.556
  • EVERY CHURCH TO EXERCISETHEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS
  • 00:48:20.556 --> 00:48:25.160
  • AND STILL THE CONSTITUTIONALRIGHTS THAT WE HAVE.
  • 00:48:25.160 --> 00:48:29.298
  • - PASTOR CRISTIANIONESCU, THANK YOU SO
  • 00:48:29.298 --> 00:48:31.133
  • MUCH FOR YOUR STANCE.
  • 00:48:31.133 --> 00:48:33.369
  • THANK YOU FOREDUCATING US.
  • 00:48:33.369 --> 00:48:35.170
  • YOU LIVED THROUGHTHIS ONCE.
  • 00:48:35.170 --> 00:48:36.772
  • YOU'RE WARNING US NOWIT'S TIME FOR CHURCHES
  • 00:48:36.772 --> 00:48:39.308
  • TO TAKE A STAND.
  • 00:48:39.308 --> 00:48:40.642
  • GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOUTHERE IN CHICAGO BROTHER.
  • 00:48:40.642 --> 00:48:42.611
  • THANK YOU.
  • 00:48:42.611 --> 00:48:44.747
  • - THANK YOU VERY MUCH ANDMAY GOD BLESS YOU TOO.
  • 00:48:44.747 --> 00:48:48.317
  • - SO MATT, WHEREDO WE GO FROM HERE?
  • 00:48:48.317 --> 00:48:50.519
  • - WELL, YOU KNOW, ASPASTOR CRISTIAN SAYS, I
  • 00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:52.554
  • THINK IT'S TIME TO OPENCHURCHES, AND OBVIOUSLY
  • 00:48:52.554 --> 00:48:55.290
  • YOU CAN DO THAT IN ASMART WAY TO PROTECT THE
  • 00:48:55.290 --> 00:48:57.626
  • HEALTH. NOBODY WANTS TO PUTANYBODY IN DANGER,
  • 00:48:57.626 --> 00:48:59.962
  • BUT THE CONSEQUENCESOF KEEPING CHURCHES
  • 00:48:59.962 --> 00:49:01.964
  • CLOSED ARE CATASTROPHIC.
  • 00:49:01.964 --> 00:49:04.166
  • AND WE'RE GONNACONTINUE TO LITIGATE.
  • 00:49:04.166 --> 00:49:05.901
  • WE REPRESENT CHURCHES ALLOVER THE COUNTRY, AND
  • 00:49:05.901 --> 00:49:08.137
  • WE'RE AVAILABLE TOTALK TO PASTORS ALL
  • 00:49:08.137 --> 00:49:10.205
  • OVER AMERICA TO MAKESURE THAT THEIR
  • 00:49:10.205 --> 00:49:12.841
  • LIBERTIES ARE PROTECTED.
  • 00:49:12.841 --> 00:49:14.343
  • AND WE'LL ULTIMATELYWIN THIS, AS I SAID.
  • 00:49:14.343 --> 00:49:16.311
  • I DON'T USUALLY PREDICTTHAT FOR CASES BECAUSE
  • 00:49:16.311 --> 00:49:18.714
  • YOU JUST NEVER KNOW, BUTI KNOW THE ROAD MAP THAT
  • 00:49:18.714 --> 00:49:21.417
  • THE SUPREME COURT GAVE ONTHANKSGIVING EVE, WHEN
  • 00:49:21.417 --> 00:49:23.819
  • YOU FOLLOW THAT, THEINEVITABLE RESULT IS
  • 00:49:23.819 --> 00:49:25.954
  • THESE RESTRICTIONSARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
  • 00:49:25.954 --> 00:49:28.123
  • SO WE WILL WIN THISLITIGATION, AND WE'RE
  • 00:49:28.123 --> 00:49:30.192
  • GONNA CONTINUE TOPRESS FORWARD IN 2021.
  • 00:49:30.192 --> 00:49:32.361
  • WE NEVER WANT TO GO DOWNTHIS ROAD AGAIN, AND WE
  • 00:49:32.361 --> 00:49:35.531
  • WILL MAKE SURE WE DON'T.
  • 00:49:35.531 --> 00:49:37.499
  • - MATT, I'M SURE THATTHOSE WHO ARE WATCHING
  • 00:49:37.499 --> 00:49:40.135
  • TONIGHT WHO HAVE WATCHEDTHE FIRST PASTORS UNDER
  • 00:49:40.135 --> 00:49:42.404
  • FIRE ARE WONDERING, THEYWANT TO KEEP UP WITH
  • 00:49:42.404 --> 00:49:44.706
  • WHAT YOU'RE DOING ATLIBERTY COUNSEL.
  • 00:49:44.706 --> 00:49:46.208
  • THEY WANT TO KNOWMORE INFORMATION.
  • 00:49:46.208 --> 00:49:47.676
  • THEY WANT TO KEEPUP WITH THESE CASES.
  • 00:49:47.676 --> 00:49:49.545
  • HOW DO PEOPLE GET INCONTACT WITH YOU?
  • 00:49:49.545 --> 00:49:51.180
  • HOW DO THEY? DO YOUHAVE A NEWSLETTER?
  • 00:49:51.180 --> 00:49:53.449
  • HOW DO PEOPLESTAY IN TOUCH?
  • 00:49:53.449 --> 00:49:55.284
  • - WELL, THEY CAN GOTO OUR WEBSITE LC.ORG.
  • 00:49:55.284 --> 00:49:58.353
  • - WE'LL PUT THAT AT THEBOTTOM OF THE SCREEN.
  • 00:49:58.353 --> 00:50:00.522
  • - LC.ORG.
  • 00:50:00.522 --> 00:50:02.791
  • AND ON THE WEB PAGE, YOUCAN GO TO THE SUBSCRIBE
  • 00:50:02.791 --> 00:50:05.828
  • BUTTON AND GET OURFREE EMAILS AND OUR
  • 00:50:05.828 --> 00:50:09.164
  • NEWSLETTERS, AND THATWILL KEEP YOU IN THE LOOP.
  • 00:50:09.164 --> 00:50:11.600
  • AND THERE'S ALSO A WAY TOCALL US AND ALSO A WAY TO
  • 00:50:11.600 --> 00:50:14.269
  • GIVE INFORMATIONABOUT QUESTIONS.
  • 00:50:14.269 --> 00:50:16.038
  • LC.ORG IS THE REALPLACE TO GO
  • 00:50:16.038 --> 00:50:18.774
  • FOR ALL THAT INFORMATION.
  • 00:50:18.774 --> 00:50:20.142
  • - AND I'M SURE THESEPASTORS ARE PAYING YOU
  • 00:50:20.142 --> 00:50:21.677
  • THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FORYOUR LEGAL WORK, RIGHT?
  • 00:50:21.677 --> 00:50:24.313
  • - NO, WE DON'TCHARGE ANYTHING.
  • 00:50:24.313 --> 00:50:25.714
  • WE'RE A MINISTRY IN THELAW, AND WE KNOW THAT
  • 00:50:25.714 --> 00:50:28.951
  • PEOPLE THAT WE REPRESENTCOULDN'T AFFORD
  • 00:50:28.951 --> 00:50:31.320
  • WHAT IT WOULD COST TORETAIN AN ATTORNEY.
  • 00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:34.056
  • - SO YOU'RE A 501(C)3?
  • 00:50:34.056 --> 00:50:35.624
  • - A 501(C)3.
  • 00:50:35.624 --> 00:50:36.992
  • - JUST LIKE A CHURCH,PEOPLE WHO MAKE DONATIONS
  • 00:50:36.992 --> 00:50:39.528
  • TO YOU WOULD BE ATAX-FREE DEDUCTION.
  • 00:50:39.528 --> 00:50:41.396
  • - YES, EXACTLY.
  • 00:50:41.396 --> 00:50:43.098
  • LIBERTY COUNSEL HAS BEENTAX DEDUCTIBLE SINCE ITS
  • 00:50:43.098 --> 00:50:45.167
  • INCEPTION IN 1989 ANDTHAT'S HOW WE OPERATE IS
  • 00:50:45.167 --> 00:50:48.070
  • THROUGH GIFTSOF INDIVIDUALS.
  • 00:50:48.070 --> 00:50:50.339
  • WE'RE THEN ABLE TO EXTENDTHAT REACH TO GO OUT
  • 00:50:50.339 --> 00:50:53.575
  • AND REPRESENT PEOPLELIKE PASTOR CHE'.
  • 00:50:53.575 --> 00:50:55.210
  • AND THESE CASES AREENORMOUSLY EXPENSIVE,
  • 00:50:55.210 --> 00:50:58.147
  • BUT THE COST OF NOTREPRESENTING RELIGIOUS
  • 00:50:58.147 --> 00:51:01.183
  • FREEDOM OR THE SANCTITYOF HUMAN LIFE IS EVEN
  • 00:51:01.183 --> 00:51:02.951
  • MORE CONSEQUENTIAL.
  • 00:51:02.951 --> 00:51:04.686
  • SO WE SURVIVE AND WEEXIST AND THE MINISTRY
  • 00:51:04.686 --> 00:51:07.656
  • OPERATES THROUGH PRAYERSAND FINANCIAL SUPPORT OF
  • 00:51:07.656 --> 00:51:10.692
  • INDIVIDUALS AROUNDTHE COUNTRY.
  • 00:51:10.692 --> 00:51:12.294
  • - WOW, FOLKS, OF THOSEOF YOU WATCHING, I THINK
  • 00:51:12.294 --> 00:51:14.630
  • IT'S AN ORGANIZATION THATNEEDS OUR SUPPORT, SO
  • 00:51:14.630 --> 00:51:17.366
  • PLEASE, IF GOD LAYS IT ONYOUR HEART TO DO THAT,
  • 00:51:17.366 --> 00:51:19.635
  • PLEASE MAKE A GIFTTHAT DIRECTION AND
  • 00:51:19.635 --> 00:51:21.637
  • BE PRAYING FOR THEM.
  • 00:51:21.637 --> 00:51:22.738
  • I MEAN, YOU'VE ARGUEDIN FRONT OF THE SUPREME
  • 00:51:22.738 --> 00:51:24.940
  • COURT MANY TIMES, YOU'REREPRESENTING OVER 1700
  • 00:51:24.940 --> 00:51:27.910
  • CHURCHES IN CALIFORNIA?
  • 00:51:27.910 --> 00:51:29.778
  • - WE'RE REPRESENTINGIN THE HUNDREDS JUST IN
  • 00:51:29.778 --> 00:51:32.614
  • CALIFORNIA ALONE,BUT WE REPRESENT
  • 00:51:32.614 --> 00:51:34.616
  • OVER 2.000 NATIONWIDE.
  • 00:51:34.616 --> 00:51:37.085
  • - WOW. SO YOU'VE GOT YOURWORK CUT OUT FOR YOU.
  • 00:51:37.085 --> 00:51:39.454
  • YOU SAID YOU'REWORKING WEEKENDS.
  • 00:51:39.454 --> 00:51:41.557
  • - AND EVENINGS AND EARLYMORNINGS, AND THAT'S
  • 00:51:41.557 --> 00:51:44.126
  • JUST ON THE CHURCHES.
  • 00:51:44.126 --> 00:51:45.394
  • WE HAVE MANY OTHERCASES AS WELL.
  • 00:51:45.394 --> 00:51:47.062
  • - WOW. THANK YOU MATT STAVERFOR ALL YOU'RE DOING.
  • 00:51:47.062 --> 00:51:49.031
  • GOD BLESS.
  • 00:51:49.031 --> 00:51:49.031