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Pastors Under Fire

February 5, 2021

51:59

Join host Tom Newman and guest pastors as they discuss today's challenges to religious freedom in America.

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Pastors Under Fire

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- TOM NEWMAN: IF I TOLD YOUCHRISTIANS ARE BEING
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PERSECUTED FOR HOLDING ACHURCH SERVICE, YOU MAY
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THINK THAT IS ONLYHAPPENING IN COMMUNIST
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COUNTRIES OR COUNTRIESTHOUSANDS OF MILES AWAY.
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BUT IF I TELL YOUCHRISTIANS ARE BEING
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PERSECUTED RIGHT HERE INAMERICA, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?
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- CHURCHES FIGHT FOR THEIRFREEDOM TO WORSHIP, AND THEN --
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- WE CAN'T MEET. WE CAN'TWORSHIP.
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WE CAN'T SING.
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THERE'S NO POWER GIVEN TOTHE GOVERNMENT --
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- --THE CHURCH, AND WHEN THECHURCHES ARE CLOSED AND
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THE LIGHTS ARE OFF, THECOMMUNITY GROANS IN
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ITS ABSENCE.
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- FOR OVER SIX MONTHS,IT HAS BEEN ILLEGAL FOR
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99.9% OF CALIFORNIANSTO WORSHIP IN CHURCH, AND
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THE STATE IS TAKINGENFORCEMENT SERIOUSLY.
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A LITTLE OVER A WEEKAGO, A PASTOR WAS HAULED
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BEFORE A COURT TO FACECONTEMPT FOR REFUSING TO
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CLOSE HIS CHURCHBECAUSE OF THE COVID 19
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RESTRICTIONS THEGOVERNMENT HAS PLACED ON
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THAT STATE ALONE.
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THE PERSECUTION IS REALAND IT'S NOT JUST
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IN CALIFORNIA.
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AT THE TIME OF THISTAPING, ILLINOIS, NEW
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YORK, AND MANY OTHERSTATES HAVE PROHIBITED
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RELIGIOUS GATHERINGSCOMPLETELY IMPOSING
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STRICT FINES ANDPOTENTIAL JAIL TIME ON
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THOSE WHO VIOLATETHEIR ORDERS.
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NO PASTOR OR PERSON INAMERICA SHOULD BE FORCED
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TO CHOOSE BETWEENWORSHIP OR PRISON.
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IN THE 1980'S, IWITNESSED A PERSECUTED
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CHURCH IN SOVIET RUSSIA.
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WE'VE ALL HEARD THESTORIES OF MALTREATMENT
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OF CHRISTIANS IN ASIAAND THE MIDDLE EAST, BUT
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TODAY THERE ARE PLACESHERE IN AMERICA WHERE YOU
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CAN BE HELD IN JAILINDEFINITELY FOR REFUSING
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TO CLOSE YOUR CHURCH DOORS.
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OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS,TBN HAS BECOME ACUTELY
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AWARE OF THE EFFORTS OFTHE LEGAL TEAM AT
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LIBERTY COUNSEL.
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FOR OVER 30 YEARS THEYHAVE WORKED IN DEFENSE OF
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RELIGIOUS LIBERTY,
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PRO-LIFE GROUPS ANDPRO-FAMILY ORGANIZATIONS.
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IN FACT, I MET MATSTAVER BECAUSE OF THE
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TREMENDOUS WORK HE HASDONE FOR THE NATION
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OF ISRAEL.
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THE LIBERTY COUNSELLEGAL TEAM IS CURRENTLY
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FIGHTING BATTLES ACROSSTHE UNITED STATES SO THAT
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CHURCHES CAN GATHER ANDYOU CAN PRACTICE YOUR
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RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
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TONIGHT MAT STAVER, THEFOUNDER AND CHAIRMAN OF
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LIBERTY COUNSEL JOINS ME.
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MAT, WHAT IS GOINGON WITH CHURCHES ACROSS
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AMERICA RIGHT NOW?
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- YOU KNOW, WHATYOU JUST SAID ABOUT
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PERSECUTION, PEOPLE THINKMAYBE THAT'S AN
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OVER EXAGGERATION.
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BUT LET ME ASK THISQUESTION: IF PASTORS ARE
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GOING TO JAIL, AND WE'VEREPRESENTED SOME PASTORS
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WHO HAVE GONE TO JAIL FOROPENING THEIR CHURCHES OR
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THREATENED WITH A YEAR INPRISON OR DAILY FINES FOR
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SIMPLY WORSHIPPINGTOGETHER WITH EVEN MORE
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THAN ONE PERSON IN THECHURCH, IF THAT'S NOT
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PERSECUTION THEN WHAT IS?
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IT'S NOT JUSTDISCRIMINATION.
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IT'S GONE BEYONDDISCRIMINATION --
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- WOW.
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- TO STRAIGHTOUT PERSECUTION.
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- CAN YOU HELP OURVIEWERS UNDERSTAND THEIR
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RIGHT TO WORSHIP UNDERTHE CONSTITUTION?
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- WELL, FIRST OF ALL,YOU HAVE THE FIRST
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AMENDMENT, AND THAT ISTHE FIRST AMENDMENT OF
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THE BILL OF RIGHTS.
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IT IS THE FOUNDATIONOF OUR FREEDOM.
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DEFENDING THE CHURCH ISREALLY DEFENDING THE
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REPUBLIC BECAUSE OUR FOREFATHERSAND FOUNDERS CAME
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HERE FOR RELIGIOUSFREEDOM.
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THEY WANTED TO BE FREE OFTHE STATE TELLING THEM
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WHETHER THEY COULD ORCOULD NOT WORSHIP OR HOW
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THEY COULD WORSHIP IFTHEY WERE EVEN PERMITTED
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TO DO SO.
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SO THAT'S WHAT THE FIRSTAMENDMENT REALLY DOES IS
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IT SAYS GOVERNMENT AS YOUSO ELOQUENTLY SAID CANNOT
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MAKE A LAW ESTABLISHINGA RELIGION MAKING A LAW
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THAT SAYS HOW YOUWORSHIP, WHETHER IT'S
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ORTHODOX, WHETHER YOU CANOR CANNOT, OR PROHIBITING
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THE FREEDEXERCISE THEREOF.
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SO WE HAVE A VERYSTRONG FIRST AMEND.
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THE PROBLEM IS JUDGESOFTEN TIMES DON'T FOLLOW
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IT, AND THAT'S WHY WEHAVE TO LITIGATE THESE
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CASES IN COURT.
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- YOU KNOW, MAT, ITJUST SEEMS SO ODD TO ME
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THAT ALL OF A SUDDEN THISPANDEMIC HAS HAPPENED,
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AND GOVERNORS SEEMEDTO START IMPOSING
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INDIVIDUALIZED RULESSTATE BY STATE, AND IT
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SEEMS SOME HAVECOMPLETELY GONE OFF THE
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RAILS WHERE OTHERS SEEMTO UNDERSTAND, AT LEAST
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UNDERSTAND THECONSTITUTION.
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SO WHY IS THISHAPPENING LIKE THIS?
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- YOU KNOW, I THINK ITREALLY GOES BACK TO THEIR
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ACTUAL WORLD VIEW.
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WHAT DO THEY THINK ABOUTTHE WORLD IN TERMS OF THE
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ROLE OF INDIVIDUALS, THEROLE OF CHURCH, AND THE
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ROLE OF GOVERNMENT.
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AND SO WHEN YOU LOOK ATTHESE GOVERNORS, THERE IS
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A PATTERN ACROSS THECOUNTRY, AND IT'S BASED
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ON WORLD VIEW.
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THEY DON'T CONSIDERCHURCHES TO BE ESSENTIAL
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YET LIQUOR STORES ANDABORTION CLINICS
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ARE ESSENTIAL.
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NOW, WHEN THAT IS YOURWORLD VIEW, IT'S TURNED
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UPSIDE DOWN AND IT'SCOMPLETELY ANTITHETICAL
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TO OUR BASICFOUNDATIONAL LIBERTIES.
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SO THEY PUT CHURCHES IN ACATEGORY OF NON-ESSENTIAL
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BUT BIG BOX CENTERSAND LIQUOR STORES AND
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ABORTION CLINICS AND SOMANY OTHERS, FOR EXAMPLE
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IN CALIFORNIA, YOU HAVE29 PAGES OF SINGLE SPACED
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ENTITIES THAT AREESSENTIAL WITH HUNDREDS
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AND HUNDREDS OF SUBCATEGORIES, BUT CHURCHES
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ARE PUT IN THENON-ESSENTIAL CATEGORY.
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SO THAT IS A BASIC WORLDVIEW PROBLEM THAT WE HAVE.
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AND WHEN THEY PUTCHURCHES IN A
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NON ESSENTIAL CATEGORY, THEYWANT TO SUPPRESS THEM.
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BUT IT'S NOTHING NEWBECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT
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SOVIET UNION OR THEFORMER COMMUNIST MARXIST
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ROMANIA OR SOME OF THEOTHER PLACES YOU HAVE
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MARXISM, COMMUNISM,REPRESSIVE
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REGIMES, WHAT'S THEFIRST TARGET OF ATTACK?
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IT'S ALWAYS THE CHURCHBECAUSE THE CHURCH IS THE
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FOUNDATION OF FREEDOM.
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AND IT IS THE IMPEDIMENTTO AN OVERPOWERING
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AGGRESSIVE GOVERNMENT.
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- TBN FAMILY, I WANT TOYOU STAY TUNED BECAUSE IN
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JUST A LITTLE WHILE WEARE GOING TO ACTUALLY BE
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SPEAKING TO PASTORS WHOHAVE BEEN GOING THROUGH
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THIS FIGHT WITH MATSTAVER AND LIBERTY
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COUNSEL RIGHTBESIDE THEM.
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YOU DON'T WANTTO MISS THIS.
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YOU'RE GOING TO HEAR FROMTHE PASTORS DIRECTLY IN
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JUST A FEW MINUTES.
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[MUSIC]
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[MUSIC]
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- MAT, IS THEREANYTHING THAT GIVES
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ANYONE THE RIGHT TOIMPEDE CHURCH SERVICES?
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- NO.
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IN FACT, IF YOU GO BACKTO 1947 IN THE US SUPREME
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COURT CASE OF EVERSONVERSUS BOARD OF EDUCATION
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TALKING ABOUT THEESTABLISHMENT CLAUSE THAT
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GOVERNMENT CAN'TESTABLISH A RELIGION, THE
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COURT SAID AS FAR ASBACK AT 1947 THAT THE
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ESTABLISHMENT CLAUSEMEANS AT A MINIMUM AND IT
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GAVE CERTAIN POINTS OFWHAT IT MEANS INCLUDING
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THAT THE GOVERNMENTCANNOT FORCE SOMEONE TO
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ATTEND CHURCH AGAINSTTHEIR WILL, OR PROHIBIT
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THEM FROM ATTENDINGCHURCH AGAINST THEIR WILL.
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IN OTHER WORDS, THEYCAN'T FORCE THEM TO GO TO
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CHURCH AGAINST THEIR WILLBUT THEY ALSO CANNOT
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PROHIBIT THEM FROM GOINGTO CHURCH AGAINST THEIR WILL.
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AND THAT'S EXACTLY WHATTHESE GOVERNOR ORDERS ARE
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DOING IS THEY'REPROHIBITING PEOPLE FROM
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GOING TO CHURCHAGAINST THEIR WILL.
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IN SOME PLACES LIKECALIFORNIA WE'LL TALK
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ABOUT, 99.9% OF THESTATE IS UNDER A
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NO WORSHIP ORDER.
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THAT MEANS NOT MORE THANONE PERSON IN A CHURCH NO
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MATTER THE SIZE OF THECHURCH FOR WORSHIP.
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AND YOU CAN'T EVENWORSHIP IN YOUR PRIVATE
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HOME WITH SOMEONE WHODOESN'T LIVE IN THAT HOME.
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- WHAT IS THIS DOING TOCHURCHES AND BASICALLY
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THE CHURCH MOVING INOUR COUNTRY TODAY?
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- YOU KNOW, I THINK ASWE TALK TO PASTORS WHO
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HAVE BEEN CLOSED WITHTHEIR CHURCHES EARLY ON
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IN THE PANDEMIC BECAUSEWE DIDN'T KNOW MUCH ABOUT
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IT, AND THOSE CHURCHESHAVE REOPENED AGAIN,
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THEY'RE HAVING A HARD EVERYTIME GETTING PEOPLE TO
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COME TO CHURCH IN TERMSOF THE NUMBERS THEY HAD.
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AND THESE ARE PASTORS WHOARE VERY VERY CONCERNED
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ABOUT THE HEALTH ANDWELFARE, SO THEY'RE DOING
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SOCIAL DISTANCING.
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THEY'RE DOING OTHERTHINGS, BUT THERE'S STILL
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PEOPLE THAT ARE SCAREDTO GO TO CHURCH.
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AND MOREOVER I THINKTHEIR PASTORS STILL IN
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SOME STATES THAT AREHAVING TO DECIDE, DO I
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OPEN THE CHURCH OR DO IFACE CRIMINAL PENALTIES
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UP TO A YEAR IN PRISONAND DAILY FINES OF
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A $1.000?
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SO AS YOU SAID, NO ONE INAMERICA SHOULD EVER HAVE
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TO FACE THAT CHOICE, ANDYET THAT'S WHAT WE'RE
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FACING IN 2020 AND NOWCONTINUING IN 2021.
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- MAT, JUST BEFORE WESTART TRYING OUR PASTORS,
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WHAT IS LIBERTY COUNSELDOING RIGHT NOW TO
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HELP PASTORS?
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- WE'RE LITIGATINGALL OVER THE COUNTRY.
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WE'RE IN FACT IN MULTIPLECOURTS OF APPEALS.
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WE'VE BEEN TO THE SUPREMECOURT AT LEAST FOUR TIMES.
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WE'RE GOING BACK.
00:08:08.011 --> 00:08:08.979
WE HAVE ONE CASE THAT'STHERE READY FOR
00:08:08.979 --> 00:08:10.948
FULL REVIEW.
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IT'S THE FIRST CASEIN THE COUNTRY.
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WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKINGTO THAT PASTOR LATER, AND
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WE REPRESENT OVER 2.000PASTORS IN OVER 44 STATES
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DEPENDING UPON THEPARTICULAR TIME OF THE
00:08:19.923 --> 00:08:21.858
YEAR AS TO WHETHER THESEORDERS ARE OPPRESSIVE OR
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CHANGING, SO OVER 2.000PASTORS AND THAT HAS BEEN
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EXCEPTIONALLY BUSY.
00:08:29.299 --> 00:08:31.935
OUR WEEKENDSHAVE BEEN FULL.
00:08:31.935 --> 00:08:34.271
I MEAN, WE'VE HAD COURTDECISIONS ON FRIDAY
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NIGHT, SATURDAY, SUNDAY.
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WE'VE WORKED THROUGH ALLOF THE HOLIDAYS FOR THE
00:08:37.574 --> 00:08:41.311
MOST PART AND HAD TO BEUP UNTIL 3, 4 AM IN THE
00:08:41.311 --> 00:08:45.015
MORNING FILING DOCUMENTSBECAUSE OF THE REPETITION
00:08:45.015 --> 00:08:48.085
OF THE CASES THAT AREMOVING THROUGH
00:08:48.085 --> 00:08:49.886
THIS COUNTRY.
00:08:49.886 --> 00:08:51.321
- WELL, MAT, YOU KNOW,WE ARRIVED AT THE AIRPORT
00:08:51.321 --> 00:08:52.422
THIS MORNING
00:08:52.422 --> 00:08:53.857
AT THE SAME TIME, I HEARDYOU ON THE PHONE,
00:08:53.857 --> 00:08:55.592
YOU KNOW.
00:08:55.592 --> 00:08:56.827
I WASN'T TRYING TOOVERHEAR BUT YOU WERE ON
00:08:56.827 --> 00:08:58.762
THE PHONE WITH COUNSELOUT OF CALIFORNIA ON THE
00:08:58.762 --> 00:09:00.631
CASES PENDING TODAY.
00:09:00.631 --> 00:09:01.999
- THAT'S RIGHT.
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IN FACT, THEY'RE GOING TOA COURT HEARING IN WHICH
00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:05.435
AFTER THAT COURT HEARING,THE PASTOR MAY WELL BE
00:09:05.435 --> 00:09:07.838
REMANDED TO PRISONBECAUSE HE OPENED UP HIS
00:09:07.838 --> 00:09:11.208
CHURCH THE SUNDAY BEFORE.
00:09:11.208 --> 00:09:13.210
- LET'S GET TO THAT.
00:09:13.210 --> 00:09:14.444
LAST YEAR IN JULY, THECOLORADO STATE ATTORNEY
00:09:14.444 --> 00:09:16.613
GENERAL ATTEMPTED TO BANANDREW WOMMACK MINISTRIES
00:09:16.613 --> 00:09:19.416
FROM HOLDING IN-PERSONGATHERINGS OF MORE THAN
00:09:19.416 --> 00:09:22.119
175 PEOPLE DECLARING THATTHE ACTIVITIES DONE ON
00:09:22.119 --> 00:09:25.122
THE MINISTRY'S PROPERTYWERE NON-ESSENTIAL AND
00:09:25.122 --> 00:09:28.392
THAT THE MINISTRY WASVIOLATING COLORADO
00:09:28.392 --> 00:09:30.727
STATE ORDERS.
00:09:30.727 --> 00:09:32.062
IN DECEMBER AFTER ASERIES OF LEGAL BATTLES,
00:09:32.062 --> 00:09:34.898
THE STATE OF COLORADO HASDISMISSED THE CASE, AND THE
00:09:34.898 --> 00:09:38.335
GOVERNOR RECLASSIFIEDPLACES OF WORSHIP
00:09:38.335 --> 00:09:41.138
AS CRITICAL.
00:09:41.138 --> 00:09:42.806
ANDREW WOMMACKJOINS ME TONIGHT.
00:09:42.806 --> 00:09:45.308
ANDREW, YOU INITIALLYLOST IN COURT BUT THEN
00:09:45.308 --> 00:09:48.311
DECIDED TO APPEAL.
00:09:48.311 --> 00:09:50.013
WHAT MADE YOU DECIDETO CONTINUE FIGHTING?
00:09:50.013 --> 00:09:53.083
BECAUSE I REMEMBER RIGHTAFTER THAT HAPPENED YOU
00:09:53.083 --> 00:09:55.619
AND I HAD A LITTLE PHONECONVERSATION, AND YOU
00:09:55.619 --> 00:09:57.988
TALKED ABOUT NOTSURE WHAT TO DO.
00:09:57.988 --> 00:09:59.923
SO WHAT HAPPENED?
00:09:59.923 --> 00:10:01.024
- WELL, YOU KNOW,I'M NOT EXCITED ABOUT
00:10:01.024 --> 00:10:03.026
FIGHTING THE STATE ONTHIS, AND WE WERE JUST
00:10:03.026 --> 00:10:05.595
GOING ABOUT OUR BUSINESSAND AS MAT CAN TELL YOU
00:10:05.595 --> 00:10:08.932
BECAUSE HE WAS OUR LAWYERTHAT WENT THROUGH ALL OF
00:10:08.932 --> 00:10:10.967
THIS, WHAT REALLYHAPPENED I THINK WE HELD
00:10:10.967 --> 00:10:14.337
THREE MEETINGS THAT THEYBASICALLY DIDN'T SAY
00:10:14.337 --> 00:10:17.908
ANYTHING UNTIL WE GOTWHERE WE PUT UP THE
00:10:17.908 --> 00:10:21.311
DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM, THEREPUBLICAN PLATFORM SIDE
00:10:21.311 --> 00:10:24.848
BY SIDE, AND IN THECENTER WE PUT HERE'S WHAT
00:10:24.848 --> 00:10:27.484
THE BIBLE SAYS.
00:10:27.484 --> 00:10:29.119
AND OF COURSE WEBROADCAST THAT LIVE CAST,
00:10:29.119 --> 00:10:31.555
AND THE VERY NEXTMORNING, WE HAD THE CEASE
00:10:31.555 --> 00:10:34.458
AND DESIST ORDERFROM THE GOVERNMENT.
00:10:34.458 --> 00:10:38.562
THAT'S WHEN WE CONTACTEDLIBERTY COUNSEL
00:10:38.562 --> 00:10:40.464
AND MAT STAVER.
00:10:40.464 --> 00:10:41.798
SO ANYWAY, MY POINT IS IREALLY DIDN'T GO LOOKING
00:10:41.798 --> 00:10:45.135
FOR A FIGHT, BUT THEYCAME AFTER US, AND THE
00:10:45.135 --> 00:10:48.672
REASON I FOUGHT BASICALLYIS BECAUSE I DON'T THINK
00:10:48.672 --> 00:10:52.776
THEY HAVE THE RIGHT, IKNOW THEY DON'T HAVE THE
00:10:52.776 --> 00:10:55.445
RIGHT TO DO THE THINGSTHEY WERE DOING.
00:10:55.445 --> 00:10:57.180
AND IF WE JUST GIVE THEMTHIS FREEDOM AND STAY
00:10:57.180 --> 00:11:01.685
QUIET, IN A SENSE IN WE'VEGIVEN UP OR RIGHTS TO THEM.
00:11:01.685 --> 00:11:05.722
AND I GUARANTY THEM THEYARE NEVER GOING TO JUST
00:11:05.722 --> 00:11:07.758
GIVE THEM BACK.
00:11:07.758 --> 00:11:09.192
- ANDREW, WHAT WASYOUR RESPONSE OF YOUR
00:11:09.192 --> 00:11:11.461
COMMUNITY AND THE PEOPLEAFFILIATED WITH YOUR
00:11:11.461 --> 00:11:13.830
MINISTRY WHEN THATVERDICT CAME DOWN?
00:11:13.830 --> 00:11:16.700
- YOU KNOW, IT WAS KINDOF A MIXED REACTION, TOM.
00:11:16.700 --> 00:11:19.770
WE HAD SOME OF THE CITYOFFICIALS, AND I'M NOT
00:11:19.770 --> 00:11:22.973
FREE TO GIVE THEIR NAMES.
00:11:22.973 --> 00:11:24.741
IT MIGHT WORK AGAINSTTHEM, BUT THEY CAME AND
00:11:24.741 --> 00:11:27.611
THANKED ME FOR DOINGWHAT I WAS DOING.
00:11:27.611 --> 00:11:29.980
I WOULD SAY THAT MOST OFOUR STAFF WAS VERY
00:11:29.980 --> 00:11:33.550
VERY SUPPORTIVE.
00:11:33.550 --> 00:11:35.085
IF THEY WEREN'T, THEYDIDN'T SAY ANYTHING TO
00:11:35.085 --> 00:11:36.686
ME, BUT AS A WHOLE, THECITY AND THE HEALTH
00:11:36.686 --> 00:11:41.558
DEPARTMENT AND THINGSLIKE THIS CAME OUT
00:11:41.558 --> 00:11:43.593
AGAINST US.
00:11:43.593 --> 00:11:45.095
THEY SAID THINGS ABOUTUS THAT WEREN'T TRUE.
00:11:45.095 --> 00:11:47.631
EVEN UNDER OATH DURINGSOME OF THESE COURT
00:11:47.631 --> 00:11:49.800
BATTLES, THEY WEREACCUSING US OF THINGS
00:11:49.800 --> 00:11:52.669
THAT WE FILLED THEM INAND LET THEM KNOW THIS
00:11:52.669 --> 00:11:54.905
WASN'T TRUE.
00:11:54.905 --> 00:11:56.273
SO THEY HAD THEINFORMATION FROM US, AND
00:11:56.273 --> 00:11:59.009
THEY EITHER JUST CHOSETO TOTALLY DISBELIEVE
00:11:59.009 --> 00:12:02.245
EVERYTHING WE SAID, ORTHEY LIED UNDER OATH IN
00:12:02.245 --> 00:12:05.849
FRONT OF THE JUDGE.
00:12:05.849 --> 00:12:07.551
- AND SO AND IN THENEWSPAPER, WE WERE
00:12:07.551 --> 00:12:10.387
BASICALLY TRASHED.
00:12:10.387 --> 00:12:11.888
AND THEY SAID ALOT OF THINGS.
00:12:11.888 --> 00:12:13.690
MAT STAVER WASA REAL BLESSING.
00:12:13.690 --> 00:12:15.225
LIBERTY COUNSEL CAME OUTAND PUT OUT SOME PRESS
00:12:15.225 --> 00:12:19.329
RELEASES THAT TRIED TOCORRECT THE SITUATION,
00:12:19.329 --> 00:12:21.898
BUT AS A WHOLE, IJUST DECIDED THAT,
00:12:21.898 --> 00:12:24.601
YOU KNOW WHAT?
00:12:24.601 --> 00:12:25.836
I'M NOT GOING TO FIGHTTHIS BATTLE IN THE
00:12:25.836 --> 00:12:27.103
PUBLIC SQUARE.
00:12:27.103 --> 00:12:28.104
WE FOUGHT IN COURT.
00:12:28.104 --> 00:12:29.206
LET THEM SAY ABOUT USWHAT THEY WANTED TO, AND
00:12:29.206 --> 00:12:31.141
WE JUST CONTINUED ON.
00:12:31.141 --> 00:12:33.643
BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE INTHIS COMMUNITY THAT JUST
00:12:33.643 --> 00:12:37.848
BELIEVE WE ARE, YOU KNOW,THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE OF
00:12:37.848 --> 00:12:41.351
ALL PROBLEMS INIF THE COMMUNITY.
00:12:41.351 --> 00:12:43.920
AND TOM, THIS IS WHYA LOT OF MINISTERS, I
00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:46.623
BELIEVE, DON'T STAND UPIS BECAUSE THERE'S PEOPLE
00:12:46.623 --> 00:12:50.260
THAT WILL TAKE WHATEVERSTAND YOU HAVE AND USE IT
00:12:50.260 --> 00:12:54.130
AGAINST YOU, AND THEY'REACCUSING ME OF KILLING
00:12:54.130 --> 00:12:56.066
PEOPLE, AND I'M THENUMBER ONE SPREAD OF THE
00:12:56.066 --> 00:12:59.269
VIRUS WHICH ISABSOLUTELY UNTRUE.
00:12:59.269 --> 00:13:02.072
WE HAD 2 CASES FROM OURSUMMER FAMILY BIBLE
00:13:02.072 --> 00:13:05.108
CONFERENCE, AND THEYCALLED IT AN OUTBREAK,
00:13:05.108 --> 00:13:08.044
AND DURING THAT EXACTPERIOD OF TIME, THERE WAS
00:13:08.044 --> 00:13:10.113
25.000 CAMPERS IN OURCOMMUNITY THAT CAME AND
00:13:10.113 --> 00:13:15.919
CAMPED IN THIS AREA.
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:18.321
AND YOU KNOW THEY WENT TOWAL-MART AND THEY WENT TO
00:13:18.321 --> 00:13:20.891
CONVENIENCE STORES, ANDTHEY ATE AND THEY DID
00:13:20.891 --> 00:13:24.027
THINGS, AND YET NOBODYELSE WAS CREDITED
00:13:24.027 --> 00:13:27.297
WITH ANYTHING.
00:13:27.297 --> 00:13:28.365
IT WAS ALL US, AND SO IKNOW THAT'S WHY A LOT OF
00:13:28.365 --> 00:13:32.202
PEOPLE DON'T DO IT ISJUST BECAUSE OF THE FALSE
00:13:32.202 --> 00:13:36.606
THINGS THAT ARE SAIDTHAT THEY USED,
00:13:36.606 --> 00:13:38.308
BUT PRAISE GOD.
00:13:38.308 --> 00:13:39.442
WE TOOK A STAND AND WE'REGOING TO DO IT REGARDLESS
00:13:39.442 --> 00:13:41.244
OF WHAT PEOPLEHAVE TO SAY.
00:13:41.244 --> 00:13:43.213
- AND WHY IS ITIMPORTANT TO CONTINUE
00:13:43.213 --> 00:13:44.948
TO FIGHT?
00:13:44.948 --> 00:13:47.050
- WELL, TOM, LIKE I SAIDEARLIER, YOU KNOW, GOD
00:13:47.050 --> 00:13:49.286
HAS GIVEN USTHESE RIGHTS.
00:13:49.286 --> 00:13:51.187
THIS NATION IS SO BLESSEDTO HAVE THE CONSTITUTION
00:13:51.187 --> 00:13:53.757
THAT WE HAVE.
00:13:53.757 --> 00:13:54.958
AND IT GIVES US TOTALFREEDOM TO PRACTICE OUR
00:13:54.958 --> 00:13:57.527
RELIGION WITHOUT ALLOF THESE RESTRICTIONS.
00:13:57.527 --> 00:14:00.997
AND OF COURSE AS YOU KNOWTHEY PUT NO RESTRICTIONS
00:14:00.997 --> 00:14:03.099
ON THE CASINOS AND OTHERTHAN PROTESTS AND YOU
00:14:03.099 --> 00:14:06.102
COULD DO ALL THESETHINGS, BUT CHURCHES WERE
00:14:06.102 --> 00:14:07.771
SINGLED OUT.
00:14:07.771 --> 00:14:09.272
IT WAS A DIRECT VIOLATIONOF OUR FIRST AMENDMENT.
00:14:09.272 --> 00:14:11.741
AND LIKE I WAS SAYINGEARLIER, IF WE DON'T
00:14:11.741 --> 00:14:13.543
FIGHT AND THROUGH OURSILENCE WE ARE IN A SENSE
00:14:13.543 --> 00:14:16.880
GIVING APPROVAL TOTHESE OVERREACHES
00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:19.649
OF GOVERNMENT.
00:14:19.649 --> 00:14:21.184
SO I FEEL WE HAVE TOSTAND UP AND I AM JUST
00:14:21.184 --> 00:14:25.221
LIKE MOST PEOPLE, I WOULDJUST AS SOON NOT FIGHT
00:14:25.221 --> 00:14:30.193
THE GOVERNMENT.
00:14:30.193 --> 00:14:31.594
I'M NOT A FIGHTER BYNATURE, BUT I THINK IF WE
00:14:31.594 --> 00:14:34.931
DON'T STAND AND FIGHT,WE'RE DOING A DISSERVICE
00:14:34.931 --> 00:14:37.200
TO OUR FOREFATHERSWHO GAVE THEIR LIFE,
00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:40.270
THEIR LIBERTY, THEIRFORTUNE, THEY GAVE
00:14:40.270 --> 00:14:42.405
THEIR LIVES.
00:14:42.405 --> 00:14:43.606
AND WE HAVE TO DOSOMETHING TO STAND UP AND
00:14:43.606 --> 00:14:46.076
FIGHT FOR THIS, AND WE'REOBLIGATED BY SCRIPTURE.
00:14:46.076 --> 00:14:49.512
IT SAYS THAT GOD HOLDSUS ACCOUNTABLE IF WE SEE
00:14:49.512 --> 00:14:52.082
THAT PEOPLE ARE BEINGTREATED UNJUSTLY, AND IF
00:14:52.082 --> 00:14:55.085
WE DON'T ACT, HEKNOWS OUR HEART.
00:14:55.085 --> 00:14:57.654
AND WE ARE BEINGHELD ACCOUNTABLE.
00:14:57.654 --> 00:14:59.456
SO I BELIEVE IN THE SIGHTOF GOD AS WELL AS JUST
00:14:59.456 --> 00:15:03.426
STANDING PATRIOTIC THINGSFOR WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN US
00:15:03.426 --> 00:15:06.429
IN THIS NATION, THAT WEHAVE TO STAND AND FIGHT
00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:09.265
OR WE WILL LOSE THESELIBERTIES, SO I FOR ONE
00:15:09.265 --> 00:15:12.302
AM SIGNED UP, AND PRAISEGOD, I'M STANDING UP AND
00:15:12.302 --> 00:15:15.805
FIGHTING AS LONGAS IT TAKES.
00:15:15.805 --> 00:15:17.507
- WOW, ANDREW.
00:15:17.507 --> 00:15:18.875
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THESTAND YOU'VE MADE AND FOR
00:15:18.875 --> 00:15:21.277
THE FIGHT BECAUSE IT'SNOT JUST FOR YOU.
00:15:21.277 --> 00:15:23.913
YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU GUYSARE DOING RIGHT NOW MEANS
00:15:23.913 --> 00:15:26.349
A LOT TO THE BODY OFCHRIST AROUND THE WORLD
00:15:26.349 --> 00:15:28.918
AND SPECIALLY RIGHT HEREIN THE UNITED STATES
00:15:28.918 --> 00:15:30.553
RIGHT NOW.
00:15:30.553 --> 00:15:31.454
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
00:15:31.454 --> 00:15:33.123
- SO MAT, WHAT DOESALL THIS MEAN LEGALLY?
00:15:33.123 --> 00:15:35.592
- WELL, IT MEANS NOW INCOLORADO ANDREW WOMMACK
00:15:35.592 --> 00:15:39.029
MINISTRY CAN HAVE THEBIBLE CONFERENCES AND THE
00:15:39.029 --> 00:15:41.564
WORSHIP SERVICES WITHOUTTHE RESTRICTIONS SO THAT
00:15:41.564 --> 00:15:43.800
IS GOOD NEWS, AND THATNOT ONLY COVERS ANDREW
00:15:43.800 --> 00:15:46.636
WOMMACK MINISTRY BUTEVERY OTHER PLACE OF
00:15:46.636 --> 00:15:48.505
WORSHIP IN COLORADO.
00:15:48.505 --> 00:15:49.739
SO THAT'S AN 180 DEGREETURNAROUND.
00:15:49.739 --> 00:15:52.308
AND WHAT CAUSED THAT?
00:15:52.308 --> 00:15:53.710
THE CASES THAT WERE ATTHE US SUPREME COURT, THE
00:15:53.710 --> 00:15:56.546
THANKSGIVING EVE DECISIONOUT OF NEW YORK, AND THEN
00:15:56.546 --> 00:15:59.115
OUR CASE DECISION ONDECEMBER 3 OUT OF
00:15:59.115 --> 00:16:01.384
CALIFORNIA ULTIMATELYAFFECTED THE DECISION
00:16:01.384 --> 00:16:04.888
IN COLORADO.
00:16:04.888 --> 00:16:06.056
- SO HOW IMPORTANT IS ITFOR CHURCHES TO CONTINUE
00:16:06.056 --> 00:16:09.059
TO FIGHT THINGSTHAT BASICALLY
00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:11.294
ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL?
00:16:11.294 --> 00:16:12.829
- WELL, I THINK IT'SREALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE
00:16:12.829 --> 00:16:15.365
HERE IS THE SITUATION.
00:16:15.365 --> 00:16:16.666
YOU MIGHT SAY THAT I'MWORSHIPPING ONLINE, AND
00:16:16.666 --> 00:16:19.702
THAT'S FINE.
00:16:19.702 --> 00:16:20.770
THAT'S YOUR DECISION,BUT IT SHOULD NOT BE THE
00:16:20.770 --> 00:16:22.505
GOVERNMENT'S DECISION TOSAY THAT THIS IS THE ONLY
00:16:22.505 --> 00:16:26.009
WAY IN WHICH YOU WILL BEABLE TO WORSHIP BECAUSE
00:16:26.009 --> 00:16:28.745
ONCE YOU ALLOW THEGOVERNMENT TO TELL YOU
00:16:28.745 --> 00:16:30.814
HOW YOU CAN WORSHIP, WHENYOU CAN WORSHIP, AND THE
00:16:30.814 --> 00:16:33.850
THE MANNER IN WHICH YOUCAN WORSHIP, THEN THEY
00:16:33.850 --> 00:16:36.386
HAVE TOTAL CONTROL.
00:16:36.386 --> 00:16:37.887
AND THE CHURCH IS NOTUNDER THE CONTROL OF CAESAR.
00:16:37.887 --> 00:16:42.225
JESUS SAID, RENDER TOCAESAR THE THINGS THAT
00:16:42.225 --> 00:16:45.495
BELONG TO CAESAR, ANDTO GOD THE THINGS THAT
00:16:45.495 --> 00:16:48.164
BELONG TO GOD.
00:16:48.164 --> 00:16:49.666
BUT THE CHURCH HAS NEVERBELONGED TO CAESAR.
00:16:49.666 --> 00:16:52.235
IT BELONGS TO GOD.
00:16:52.235 --> 00:16:53.803
AND THE CHURCH IS MORETHAN JUST A MESSAGE THAT
00:16:53.803 --> 00:16:57.207
YOU RECEIVE EITHER INPERSON OR ONLINE.
00:16:57.207 --> 00:16:59.642
IT IS A BODYOF BELIEVERS.
00:16:59.642 --> 00:17:02.045
IT IS THE HOSPITAL FORTHE COMMUNITY, AND WHEN
00:17:02.045 --> 00:17:04.981
THE CHURCHES ARE CLOSEDAND THE LIGHTS ARE OFF,
00:17:04.981 --> 00:17:08.384
THE COMMUNITY GROANSIN ITS ABSENCE.
00:17:08.384 --> 00:17:10.220
AND THERE ARE SIGNIFICANTCONSEQUENCES THAT WE'LL
00:17:10.220 --> 00:17:13.389
TALK ABOUT LATER IN TERMSOF MENTAL HEALTH AND
00:17:13.389 --> 00:17:15.492
OTHER KINDS OF SITUATIONSTHAT ARE DEVASTATING.
00:17:15.492 --> 00:17:18.561
- LET'S GO TO CHE' AHN.
00:17:18.561 --> 00:17:19.696
WHEN WE CAME TO YOU A FEWMONTHS, WE TOLD YOU ABOUT
00:17:19.696 --> 00:17:22.899
PASTOR CHE' AHN OFHARVEST ROCK CHURCH IN
00:17:22.899 --> 00:17:25.668
PASADENA, CALIFORNIA.
00:17:25.668 --> 00:17:27.470
LAST MARCH AMIDST THEUNCERTAINTY OF THE CORONA
00:17:27.470 --> 00:17:30.240
VIRUS, THE CHURCHSTRICTLY ADHERED TO THE
00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:33.109
CALIFORNIA STATEGUIDELINES FOR COVID 19.
00:17:33.109 --> 00:17:36.079
FIRST, CLOSING DOORS FORSEVERAL MONTHS AND LATER
00:17:36.079 --> 00:17:39.382
UTILIZING SAFETYPROTOCOLS DURING
00:17:39.382 --> 00:17:41.885
IN-PERSON SERVICES.
00:17:41.885 --> 00:17:43.586
BUT DURING THE SUMMERAFTER THE STATE OF
00:17:43.586 --> 00:17:46.523
CALIFORNIA BANNEDIN-PERSON WORSHIP AND
00:17:46.523 --> 00:17:49.425
TOLD PASTOR CHE' AHN THATHE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO
00:17:49.425 --> 00:17:52.595
GATHER, THE CHURCH FILEDA FEDERAL CIVIL COMPLAINT
00:17:52.595 --> 00:17:55.865
AGAINST THE RESTRICTIONSSAYING THAT THOSE
00:17:55.865 --> 00:17:58.535
RESTRICTIONS WERESPECIFICALLY AIMED AT
00:17:58.535 --> 00:18:02.005
CRIMINALIZING IN-PERSONWORSHIP, BOTH IN AND
00:18:02.005 --> 00:18:04.207
OUTSIDE OF PRIVATECITIZEN'S HOMES.
00:18:04.207 --> 00:18:07.577
AFTER MONTHS OF IMPENDINGCRIMINAL THREATS AND
00:18:07.577 --> 00:18:11.347
FINES BY STATE AND LOCALOFFICIALS, THE CHURCH
00:18:11.347 --> 00:18:13.616
REQUESTED THE US SUPREMECOURT INTERVENE.
00:18:13.616 --> 00:18:17.220
MEANWHILE, THE CHURCHCONTINUED TO MEET INDOORS
00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:20.323
DESPITE CALIFORNIA STATEORDER PROHIBITING INDOOR
00:18:20.323 --> 00:18:24.093
CHURCH GATHERINGS.
00:18:24.093 --> 00:18:25.828
IN LATE NOVEMBER, THESUPREME COURT ORDERED A
00:18:25.828 --> 00:18:29.199
LOWER COURT DECISION TOBE VACATED AND THE CASE
00:18:29.199 --> 00:18:32.702
SENT BACK DOWN TOA DISTRICT COURT.
00:18:32.702 --> 00:18:35.104
HOWEVER, US DISTRICTJUDGE BERNAL RULED
00:18:35.104 --> 00:18:38.975
AGAINST THE CHURCH FORA SECOND TIME IN THAT
00:18:38.975 --> 00:18:41.578
HEARING PROMPTING LIBERTYCOUNSEL'S APPEAL AGAIN
00:18:41.578 --> 00:18:45.548
BACK TO THE 9TH CIRCUITCOURT OF APPEALS.
00:18:45.548 --> 00:18:48.484
LAST WEEK LIBERTY COUNSELARGUED IN FRONT OF THE
00:18:48.484 --> 00:18:53.056
9TH CIRCUIT, AND TONIGHTPASTOR CHE' AHN JOINS US
00:18:53.056 --> 00:18:57.594
FROM CALIFORNIA.
00:18:57.594 --> 00:18:58.861
PASTOR CHE', YOU'VEBATTLED THE LAST FEW
00:18:58.861 --> 00:19:01.431
MONTHS BETWEEN THESUPREME COURT AND
00:19:01.431 --> 00:19:02.799
THE 9TH CIRCUIT.
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:04.067
WHAT IS THE PULSE OFYOUR CHURCH AND YOUR
00:19:04.067 --> 00:19:05.602
CONGREGATION NOW?
00:19:05.602 --> 00:19:07.270
- WE'RE SO GRATEFUL THATTHE SUPREME COURT SPOKE
00:19:07.270 --> 00:19:10.106
INTO OUR SITUATION WHENOUR PROSECUTOR THREATENED
00:19:10.106 --> 00:19:13.910
TO ARREST ME AND TO FINEOUR CHURCH MEMBERS A
00:19:13.910 --> 00:19:17.113
$1.000 PER PERSON, BUTALSO SAID THEY HAD THE
00:19:17.113 --> 00:19:20.416
RIGHT TO ARREST OURCHURCH MEMBERS, AND WHEN
00:19:20.416 --> 00:19:23.152
I READ THAT LETTER ITHOUGHT I'M NOT IN
00:19:23.152 --> 00:19:26.022
COMMUNIST NORTH KOREA.
00:19:26.022 --> 00:19:27.390
MY DAD CAME FROM NORTHKOREA, ESCAPED
00:19:27.390 --> 00:19:29.292
TO SOUTH KOREA.
00:19:29.292 --> 00:19:30.426
I'M NOT INCOMMUNIST CHINA.
00:19:30.426 --> 00:19:32.228
I'M IN THE UNITED STATESOF AMERICA, AND THEY WANT
00:19:32.228 --> 00:19:34.430
TO ARREST PEOPLE WHO LOVEJESUS WHO JUST WANT TO
00:19:34.430 --> 00:19:37.133
WORSHIP, AND THECRAZINESS AND THE IRONY
00:19:37.133 --> 00:19:40.503
IS THAT THEY'RE LETTINGPRISONERS OUT OF
00:19:40.503 --> 00:19:42.038
PENITENTIARIES INCALIFORNIA BECAUSE OF
00:19:42.038 --> 00:19:44.274
COVID 19 CROWDEDNESS,AND YET THEY WANT TO
00:19:44.274 --> 00:19:46.943
ARREST PEOPLE WHO ARELAW-ABIDING CITIZENS, SO
00:19:46.943 --> 00:19:48.945
THAT'S THE UPSIDE DOWNSITUATION THAT WE'RE IN
00:19:48.945 --> 00:19:51.948
IN CALIFORNIA.
00:19:51.948 --> 00:19:54.083
- SO DO YOU FEEL LIKEYOU'RE EXPERIENCING AN
00:19:54.083 --> 00:19:56.452
INFRINGEMENT ON YOURCONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS?
00:19:56.452 --> 00:19:58.688
- ABSOLUTELY.
00:19:58.688 --> 00:19:59.989
I REALLY-- IN FACT, EARLYON WHEN HE DECLARED US
00:19:59.989 --> 00:20:03.259
NON ESSENTIAL, I ALONGWITH AROUND 150 PASTORS
00:20:03.259 --> 00:20:06.929
SIGNED A LETTER TOGOVERNOR NEWSOME TRYING
00:20:06.929 --> 00:20:10.600
TO PERSUADE HIM THATWE'VE BEEN ESSENTIAL FOR
00:20:10.600 --> 00:20:12.368
2.000 YEARS.
00:20:12.368 --> 00:20:14.103
YOU KNOW, I WAS AHIGH SCHOOL DROP OUT.
00:20:14.103 --> 00:20:15.471
I WAS A DRUG ADDICT, ANDAT THE AGE OF 17 I GAVE
00:20:15.471 --> 00:20:17.874
MY LIFE TO JESUS CHRIST.
00:20:17.874 --> 00:20:19.442
COMPLETELYCHANGED MY LIFE.
00:20:19.442 --> 00:20:21.344
AND ONE DAY, AND IT'STHE GRACE OF GOD, I WAS
00:20:21.344 --> 00:20:23.479
DELIVERED FROMDRUG ADDICTION.
00:20:23.479 --> 00:20:25.415
AND HERE I AM NOW MARRIEDWITH 4 WONDERFUL ADULT
00:20:25.415 --> 00:20:30.586
CHILDREN THAT LOVE JESUS,THEY'RE SERVING GOD.
00:20:30.586 --> 00:20:32.889
ALL OF THEM ARE INVOLVEDIN SOME KIND OF MINISTRY.
00:20:32.889 --> 00:20:35.124
I HAVE 8 GRANDCHILDREN,AND I SHOULD EITHER BE
00:20:35.124 --> 00:20:38.061
DEAD OR IN PRISON, ANDTHAT'S WHAT CHRISTIANITY
00:20:38.061 --> 00:20:40.730
DOES FOR PEOPLE, AND SO IAPPEALED, BUT HE SAID NO,
00:20:40.730 --> 00:20:44.400
YOU CAN'T MEET.
00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:45.668
AND YOU KNOW, THEY SAIDYOU COULD MEET ONLINE,
00:20:45.668 --> 00:20:47.970
BUT YOU KNOW, THE BIBLESAYS DO NOT FORSAKE THE
00:20:47.970 --> 00:20:50.940
ASSEMBLING OF THE SAINTSIN HEBREWS 10: 25.
00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:54.811
AND THERE ARE OVER 51OTHERS YOU CANNOT DO
00:20:54.811 --> 00:20:57.780
BECAUSE OF JUSTWATCHING ONLINE.
00:20:57.780 --> 00:21:00.683
- WELL, PASTOR CHE', IFANYONE WOULD BE A WITNESS
00:21:00.683 --> 00:21:04.187
AND A TESTIMONY OF CHURCHBEING ESSENTIAL IT WOULD
00:21:04.187 --> 00:21:06.389
BE YOURSELF.
00:21:06.389 --> 00:21:07.690
AT 17 BEING SAVED FROM ALIFE OF DRUG ADDICTION
00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:10.927
AND BASICALLY POSSIBLYEVEN LOSING YOUR LIFE,
00:21:10.927 --> 00:21:13.229
YOU ARE THAT EXAMPLE.
00:21:13.229 --> 00:21:16.065
AND LOOK AT YOU TODAY NOWSTANDING AND FIGHTING FOR
00:21:16.065 --> 00:21:17.567
THE CHURCH IN GENERAL.
00:21:17.567 --> 00:21:18.935
THAT'S AMAZING.
00:21:18.935 --> 00:21:20.403
I'M HERE WITH MAT.
00:21:20.403 --> 00:21:21.471
MAT IS SITTING RIGHTHERE WITH ME, SO I'M
00:21:21.471 --> 00:21:22.672
GOING TO ASK MATA LITTLE BIT.
00:21:22.672 --> 00:21:23.773
MAT, YOU REPRESENTEDTHIS CASE.
00:21:23.773 --> 00:21:25.274
TELL US THE RESULTS OF ITAND WHAT THE BATTLE WAS LIKE.
00:21:25.274 --> 00:21:28.010
- WELL, WE WENT ALL THEWAY TO THE US SUPREME COURT.
00:21:28.010 --> 00:21:30.146
WE GOT A GOOD DECISIONON DECEMBER 3.
00:21:30.146 --> 00:21:32.849
THE CASE WAS SENT BACKTO THE DISTRICT JUDGE.
00:21:32.849 --> 00:21:34.884
THE ROADMAP WASPRETTY CLEAR.
00:21:34.884 --> 00:21:36.352
THE COURT SAID FOLLOW THEROADMAP, AND IT'S FAIRLY
00:21:36.352 --> 00:21:38.688
EASY TO FOLLOW, AND WHENYOU FOLLOW THE ROADMAP,
00:21:38.688 --> 00:21:40.723
YOU REALIZE THESERESTRICTIONS
00:21:40.723 --> 00:21:42.425
ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
00:21:42.425 --> 00:21:43.626
BUT THE JUDGE BELOW DIDNOT WANT TO FOLLOW THE
00:21:43.626 --> 00:21:45.895
ROADMAP, RULED AGAINSTUS THE SECOND TIME.
00:21:45.895 --> 00:21:48.264
SO I ARGUED IT A SECONDTIME AT THE COURT OF
00:21:48.264 --> 00:21:51.401
APPEALS FOR THE9TH CIRCUITS.
00:21:51.401 --> 00:21:52.902
AND WE WILL ULTIMATELYWIN THIS CASE.
00:21:52.902 --> 00:21:55.171
IT'S NOT A MATTER OF IF.
00:21:55.171 --> 00:21:56.939
IT'S A MATTER OF WHEN WE NOTONLY WIN THIS
00:21:56.939 --> 00:22:00.042
CASE IN CALIFORNIA ANDFREE UP WORSHIP ALL
00:22:00.042 --> 00:22:03.112
ACROSS THE STATE BUT ALLACROSS THIS COUNTRY AS WELL.
00:22:03.112 --> 00:22:06.082
- WOW.
00:22:06.082 --> 00:22:07.183
SO MAT, AS YOU CONTINUETO TAKE THESE CASES, AND
00:22:07.183 --> 00:22:10.253
HOW MANY -HOW MANYCHURCHES ARE YOU
00:22:10.253 --> 00:22:12.622
REPRESENTING RIGHT NOW INTHE STATE OF CALIFORNIA?
00:22:12.622 --> 00:22:15.224
- WELL, THROUGH PASTORCHE'S HARVEST ROCK CHURCH
00:22:15.224 --> 00:22:18.528
WITH MULTIPLE CAMPUSESIN THAT AREA AND THEN
00:22:18.528 --> 00:22:21.297
HARVEST INTERNATIONALMINISTRY ALSO FOUNDED BY
00:22:21.297 --> 00:22:23.800
PASTOR CHE' AHN, WEREPRESENT IN THE 130,
00:22:23.800 --> 00:22:28.137
140, 150 RANGE INJUST CALIFORNIA.
00:22:28.137 --> 00:22:31.174
IN FACT, HARVESTINTERNATIONAL MINISTRY
00:22:31.174 --> 00:22:33.242
HAS AN INTERNATIONALMINISTRY OF 65.000
00:22:33.242 --> 00:22:35.678
WORLDWIDE, AND SO HE'SALREADY GOTTEN INQUIRIES
00:22:35.678 --> 00:22:39.048
FROM THE CHURCHES AROUNDTHE GLOBE THAT ARE FACING
00:22:39.048 --> 00:22:41.818
THE SAME KIND OFRESTRICTIONS AND THEY'RE
00:22:41.818 --> 00:22:43.453
TRYING TO USE THISAS A PRECEDENT.
00:22:43.453 --> 00:22:45.688
- PASTOR CHE', WHATWOULD YOU SAY TO PASTORS
00:22:45.688 --> 00:22:50.793
AND CHRISTIANS AROUND THECOUNTRY, PASTORS WHO ARE
00:22:50.793 --> 00:22:52.995
IN SIMILAR CIRCUMSTANCESTO YOU, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?
00:22:52.995 --> 00:22:56.866
WHAT WOULD YOU GIVETHEM FOR A WORD
00:22:56.866 --> 00:22:58.100
OF ENCOURAGEMENT?
00:22:58.100 --> 00:22:59.202
BECAUSE I KNOW THISHASN'T BEEN EASY ON YOU.
00:22:59.202 --> 00:23:01.070
YOU SAID YOURSELFYOU'VE GOT HATE MAIL.
00:23:01.070 --> 00:23:03.206
THERE'S A LOT OF THINGSCOMING YOUR WAY.
00:23:03.206 --> 00:23:04.907
WHAT WOULD YOU SAY TOBELIEVERS AND PASTORS IN
00:23:04.907 --> 00:23:06.976
THIS STATE?
00:23:06.976 --> 00:23:08.144
- I'D SAY ANUMBER OF THINGS.
00:23:08.144 --> 00:23:09.412
YOU KNOW, GOD LOVES YOUBUT HE'S NOT GIVEN US THE
00:23:09.412 --> 00:23:12.114
SPIRIT OF FEAR, BUT LOVE,POWER, AND A SOUND MIND.
00:23:12.114 --> 00:23:15.384
2 TIMOTHY 1:7.
00:23:15.384 --> 00:23:17.453
AND NOT TO BE INTIMIDATEDBY THE STATE.
00:23:17.453 --> 00:23:19.922
GOD SAID, I'LL NEVERLEAVE YOU NOR FORSAKE YOU.
00:23:19.922 --> 00:23:22.692
AND JUST LIKE TO JOSHUA,BE STRONG AND COURAGEOUS.
00:23:22.692 --> 00:23:26.095
YOU KNOW, ONLY JOSHUA ANDCALEB HAD THE FAITH TO
00:23:26.095 --> 00:23:29.065
TAKE THE PROMISED LAND.
00:23:29.065 --> 00:23:30.433
THE REST OF THE SPIESWERE COWARDLY, AND IT'S
00:23:30.433 --> 00:23:34.103
INTERESTING, THAT WORDFEAR IN 2 TIMOTHY 1 IT'S
00:23:34.103 --> 00:23:38.140
NOT THE NORMAL GREEKWORD FOR FEAR WHICH IS
00:23:38.140 --> 00:23:40.243
[SPEAKING GREEK] WHEREWE GET THE WORD PHOBIA.
00:23:40.243 --> 00:23:44.947
IT'S THE GREEK WORD[SPEAKING GREEK]
00:23:44.947 --> 00:23:47.216
IT ONLY APPEARS TWICEIN THE NEW TESTAMENT,
00:23:47.216 --> 00:23:49.285
2 TIMOTHY 1 AND ALSOIN REVELATION 21.
00:23:49.285 --> 00:23:52.622
AND IT'S REALLYTRANSLATED OF BEING A COWARD.
00:23:52.622 --> 00:23:55.625
THE COWARDS WILL BETHROWN INTO THE LAKE OF
00:23:55.625 --> 00:23:58.160
FIRE WITH MURDERERS ANDADULTERERS IN REVELATION 21.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:02.732
SO WHAT THE BIBLESAYS IS GOD'S NOT GIVEN US
00:24:02.732 --> 00:24:05.201
THE SPIRIT OF, SOMETRANSLATIONS SAY TIMIDITY
00:24:05.201 --> 00:24:07.670
AND THEY WERE CLOSER, BUTBEING A COWARD, BUT OF
00:24:07.670 --> 00:24:10.573
POWER AND LOVEAND SOUND MIND.
00:24:10.573 --> 00:24:12.808
SO I WANT TO ENCOURAGEBELIEVERS AND PASTORS,
00:24:12.808 --> 00:24:16.812
GOD'S GIVEN YOU THE POWEROF THE HOLY SPIRIT.
00:24:16.812 --> 00:24:19.415
YOU SHALL RECEIVE POWERWHEN THE HOLY SPIRIT
00:24:19.415 --> 00:24:21.484
COMES UPON YOU.
00:24:21.484 --> 00:24:22.785
SO HERE I AM, I AMIMMIGRATED IN 1960 WITH
00:24:22.785 --> 00:24:25.655
MY FAMILY.
00:24:25.655 --> 00:24:26.789
I BECAME A CITIZENWHEN I WAS 13.
00:24:26.789 --> 00:24:30.393
AND I AM -I'VE TRAVELEDTO ALMOST 100 NATIONS.
00:24:30.393 --> 00:24:33.362
IT'S NOT A HYPERBOLEBECAUSE WE'RE IN
00:24:33.362 --> 00:24:34.764
70 NATIONS.
00:24:34.764 --> 00:24:36.532
AND I STILL COME BACKEVEN THOUGH CALIFORNIA SO
00:24:36.532 --> 00:24:38.734
EXTREMELY LEFT.
00:24:38.734 --> 00:24:40.303
I SAY, GOD, THANK YOU.
00:24:40.303 --> 00:24:41.571
THIS IS THE BESTNATION IN THE WORLD.
00:24:41.571 --> 00:24:43.339
I'M SO GRATEFUL THAT I'MA US CITIZEN BECAUSE OF
00:24:43.339 --> 00:24:46.442
OUR FREEDOM THAT WASESTABLISHED BY OUR
00:24:46.442 --> 00:24:48.811
FOUNDING FATHERS, SO ITHINK I MAY APPRECIATE
00:24:48.811 --> 00:24:51.614
MORE BECAUSE WHOEVER ISFORGIVEN MUCH LOVES MUCH.
00:24:51.614 --> 00:24:54.350
AND BECAUSE OF WHAT ICAME OUT OF, YOU KNOW, KOREA.
00:24:54.350 --> 00:24:57.687
MY DAD WAS A PASTORIN NORTH KOREA.
00:24:57.687 --> 00:24:59.789
HE ESCAPED TOSOUTH KOREA.
00:24:59.789 --> 00:25:01.123
SO I KNOW WHATCOMMUNISM IS LIKE.
00:25:01.123 --> 00:25:02.925
- WOW.
00:25:02.925 --> 00:25:03.993
- AND I'M SO GRATEFULBUT I'M ALSO CONCERNED
00:25:03.993 --> 00:25:06.462
FOR OUR NATION, BUT WENEED TO SEE A REVIVAL IN
00:25:06.462 --> 00:25:09.865
THIS NATION.
00:25:09.865 --> 00:25:10.900
- AMEN.
00:25:10.900 --> 00:25:12.068
PASTOR CHE', ON BEHALF OFMAT AND LAURIE AND THE
00:25:12.068 --> 00:25:13.703
TBN FAMILY, THANK YOUFOR TAKING A STAND.
00:25:13.703 --> 00:25:16.472
THANK YOU FOR THEFIGHT YOU'RE WAGING.
00:25:16.472 --> 00:25:17.974
WE'RE WITH YOU.
00:25:17.974 --> 00:25:19.208
WE'RE PRAYING FOR YOU.
00:25:19.208 --> 00:25:20.409
AND YOU KEEP IT UPBECAUSE YOU'RE BEING AN
00:25:20.409 --> 00:25:22.178
EXAMPLE THAT OTHERS CANFOLLOW AND THANK YOU FOR
00:25:22.178 --> 00:25:24.847
STANDING THE UNITEDSTATES AND FOR YOUR CHURCH.
00:25:24.847 --> 00:25:27.483
WE APPRECIATE IT MUCH.
00:25:27.483 --> 00:25:29.085
WELL, MAT, I KNOW YOUREPRESENT PASTOR CHE'.
00:25:29.085 --> 00:25:34.323
AND AS WE SIT HERE AT THEBEGINNING OF 2021, WHAT
00:25:34.323 --> 00:25:38.027
OTHER INFORMATION CAN YOUSHARE REGARDING HIS CASE
00:25:38.027 --> 00:25:41.230
AND HOW IT MAY AFFECTOTHER CHURCHES ACROSS
00:25:41.230 --> 00:25:43.432
THE COUNTRY?
00:25:43.432 --> 00:25:44.567
- LET ME JUST SAY THIS,CALIFORNIA IS THE MOST
00:25:44.567 --> 00:25:47.336
RESTRICTIVE IN THE ENTIRENATION, AND IT'S HARD TO
00:25:47.336 --> 00:25:50.906
BELIEVE THIS BUT
00:25:50.906 --> 00:25:53.342
99.9% OF PEOPLEIN CALIFORNIA
00:25:53.342 --> 00:25:56.112
ARE ON A NO WORSHIP BAN.
00:25:56.112 --> 00:25:58.748
IN OTHER WORDS, YOUCANNOT WORSHIP IN ANY
00:25:58.748 --> 00:26:01.083
SIZE CHURCH WITH MORETHAN ONE PERSON;
00:26:01.083 --> 00:26:03.419
MOREOVER, YOU CAN'TEVEN DO THAT IN A HOME
00:26:03.419 --> 00:26:06.188
WITH SOMEONE WHODOESN'T LIVE THERE.
00:26:06.188 --> 00:26:07.957
SO FOR SOMEONE WHO SAYS,WELL, MAYBE THE LORD IS
00:26:07.957 --> 00:26:09.625
PUTTING US BACK TO HOMECHURCHES, IN CALIFORNIA
00:26:09.625 --> 00:26:12.495
THAT'S EVENILLEGAL AS WELL.
00:26:12.495 --> 00:26:14.563
SO THAT IS THEUNBELIEVABLE SITUATION
00:26:14.563 --> 00:26:17.867
THAT WE FACEIN CALIFORNIA.
00:26:17.867 --> 00:26:20.169
PASTORS HAVE BEEN FINED.
00:26:20.169 --> 00:26:21.537
PASTORS HAVE BEENTHREATENED WITH ARREST.
00:26:21.537 --> 00:26:22.972
WE HAVE A LETTER FROMTHE PASADENA CRIMINAL
00:26:22.972 --> 00:26:25.141
PROSECUTOR THAT'S STILLIN EFFECT THREATENING
00:26:25.141 --> 00:26:27.677
DAILY CRIMINAL CHARGESAGAINST PASTOR CHE',
00:26:27.677 --> 00:26:30.413
THE STAFF AND ALL THEPARISHIONERS WHO ATTEND
00:26:30.413 --> 00:26:33.482
AS WELL AS DAILY FINES.THAT IS UNBELIEVABLE,
00:26:33.482 --> 00:26:37.019
BUT IT'S HAPPENINGHERE IN AMERICA.
00:26:37.019 --> 00:27:14.000
♪♪
00:27:14.091 --> 00:27:17.427
- CHURCHES AROUND THECOUNTRY OPERATE FOOD BANKS,
00:27:17.427 --> 00:27:19.863
PROGRAMS FOR THE POOR.
00:27:19.863 --> 00:27:21.631
I'VE EVEN HEARD OFCHURCHES NOW BEING USED
00:27:21.631 --> 00:27:24.134
AS VACCINATION CENTERSALL WHILE THEY ARE NOT
00:27:24.134 --> 00:27:27.571
ALLOWED TO HOLDRELIGIOUS SERVICES.
00:27:27.571 --> 00:27:30.240
MATT, WHY IS THERE SUCHRESTRICTION ON RELIGIOUS
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.510
MEETINGS AND SERVICES?
00:27:33.510 --> 00:27:35.178
- THAT REALLY ILLUSTRATESWHERE THE PROBLEM IS.
00:27:35.178 --> 00:27:38.048
IT'S NOT THAT WORSHIP ISANY MORE RISKY THAN OTHER
00:27:38.048 --> 00:27:42.252
PLACES WHERE YOU GO TOGROCERY STORES AND YOU
00:27:42.252 --> 00:27:45.021
TOUCH THE SAME HANDLETHAT EVERYBODY ELSE
00:27:45.021 --> 00:27:46.790
TOUCHES, OR YOU GATHERIN SOME OF THESE OTHER
00:27:46.790 --> 00:27:48.925
PLACES FOR UNLIMITEDNUMBERS OF TIME.
00:27:48.925 --> 00:27:51.228
IT'S THAT THEY DON'TWANT YOU TO WORSHIP.
00:27:51.228 --> 00:27:53.730
IT'S NOT THAT IT'S MORERISKY, IT'S THAT THEY
00:27:53.730 --> 00:27:56.500
HAVE AN OPPOSITION TOWORSHIP BECAUSE IN THE
00:27:56.500 --> 00:27:58.702
SAME BUILDING WITHUNLIMITED NUMBERS OF
00:27:58.702 --> 00:28:01.004
PEOPLE YOU CAN DONON-WORSHIP KIND OF
00:28:01.004 --> 00:28:03.240
ACTIVITIES, NON-RELIGIOUSKIND OF ACTIVITIES,
00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:05.509
SECULAR GATHERINGS IN THESAME CHURCH BUILDING.
00:28:05.509 --> 00:28:08.879
- BUT SURELY THEY HAVETO BE ABLE TO SEE THE
00:28:08.879 --> 00:28:11.882
INCONSISTENCIES OFTHESE POLICIES, MATT.
00:28:11.882 --> 00:28:14.951
- WELL, I THINK THEY SEEIT, BUT THEY STILL TRY TO
00:28:14.951 --> 00:28:17.854
MAKE AN ARGUMENT THATWORSHIP IS MORE RISKY AND
00:28:17.854 --> 00:28:20.524
IN FACT IT'S NOT MORERISKY BECAUSE WHEN YOU
00:28:20.524 --> 00:28:22.559
LOOK AT THE CONGREGATIONOF GATHERING OF PEOPLE
00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:25.095
HERE TO WORSHIP AND ACONGREGATION OF PEOPLE
00:28:25.095 --> 00:28:26.863
GATHERING IN THE SAMECHURCH FOR NON-WORSHIP
00:28:26.863 --> 00:28:30.700
ACTIVITIES, WHETHER YOUFEED THEM, HOUSE THEM, OR
00:28:30.700 --> 00:28:32.769
GIVE THEM COUNSELING FORUNEMPLOYMENT, ABUSE OR
00:28:32.769 --> 00:28:36.106
ANYTHING ELSE, ANDTHEY'RE THE SAME PEOPLE
00:28:36.106 --> 00:28:38.608
IN THE SAME CHURCH, ONEIS NOT RELIGIOUS, ONE IS,
00:28:38.608 --> 00:28:41.978
YOU REALLY BEGIN TOSEE WHERE WE'RE GOING.
00:28:41.978 --> 00:28:44.447
- WELL, I KNOW EVEN INOKLAHOMA, A LOT OF THE
00:28:44.447 --> 00:28:48.351
CHURCHES ARE WHERE PEOPLEVOTE, SO I KNOW CHURCHES
00:28:48.351 --> 00:28:51.221
ALL OVER THE COUNTRYHAVE BEEN MADE POLLING
00:28:51.221 --> 00:28:54.291
CENTERS, SO I'M SURE THEY'REAT LEAST TAKING VOTES.
00:28:54.291 --> 00:28:56.359
- EXACTLY, AND I THINKPART OF THE CLOSURE OF
00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:58.428
CHURCHES WAS NOT ONLY,AS I MENTIONED, A
00:28:58.428 --> 00:29:00.564
WORLD VIEW, MORE OF ASECULARIST ANTI-GOD
00:29:00.564 --> 00:29:02.732
WORLD VIEW WHERE ABORTIONIS PERMISSIBLE AND
00:29:02.732 --> 00:29:05.235
ESSENTIAL,WORSHIP IS NOT.
00:29:05.235 --> 00:29:07.504
BUT I THINK WHERE THEREIS AN OPPOSITION OF ANY
00:29:07.504 --> 00:29:10.140
STATIST SITUATION WHEREGOVERNMENT CONTROLS
00:29:10.140 --> 00:29:12.843
EVERYTHING THAT YOU DO,
00:29:12.843 --> 00:29:14.244
WE'VE SEEN THATIN THE PANDEMIC.
00:29:14.244 --> 00:29:15.779
THEY WANT TO CONTROLEVERYTHING THAT YOU DO.
00:29:15.779 --> 00:29:17.514
WHAT CAN OPEN, WHAT CAN'TOPEN, WHAT YOU HAVE TO
00:29:17.514 --> 00:29:19.916
WEAR, WHAT YOUDON'T WEAR.
00:29:19.916 --> 00:29:21.318
ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENTTHINGS, AND CHURCHES ARE
00:29:21.318 --> 00:29:24.387
A FLY THAT IS THEIRRITANT BECAUSE THEY
00:29:24.387 --> 00:29:28.058
WANT TO GET RID OF THATBECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT
00:29:28.058 --> 00:29:30.927
SAYS IN THE SCRIPTURES"FOR FREEDOM CHRIST HAS
00:29:30.927 --> 00:29:33.029
SET YOU FREE," AND WHENYOU EXPERIENCE THAT
00:29:33.029 --> 00:29:35.098
FREEDOM, CHURCHES HAVEALWAYS BEEN THE BASTION
00:29:35.098 --> 00:29:38.368
OF FREEDOM AROUND THEWORLD, AND THEY'VE ALWAYS
00:29:38.368 --> 00:29:40.871
BEEN THE FIRST TARGET OFREPRESSIVE GOVERNMENTS.
00:29:40.871 --> 00:29:43.306
- WOW.
00:29:43.306 --> 00:29:44.474
OVER THE LAST YEAR, THETERM "ESSENTIAL" HAS
00:29:44.474 --> 00:29:47.143
BECOME A FAMILIAR WORDIN OUR VOCABULARY.
00:29:47.143 --> 00:29:50.213
WHETHER IT'S BEEN INREGARD TO BUSINESSES,
00:29:50.213 --> 00:29:52.849
PEOPLE, SERVICES OREVEN SURGERY, IF THE
00:29:52.849 --> 00:29:55.852
GOVERNMENT DEEMSSOMETHING ESSENTIAL,
00:29:55.852 --> 00:29:58.221
THERE'S A FREE PASS TOCONTINUE OPERATING AS
00:29:58.221 --> 00:30:01.191
NORMAL. SO REALLY, THEQUESTION BECOMES
00:30:01.191 --> 00:30:04.327
WHAT IS ESSENTIAL?ARE YOU ESSENTIAL?
00:30:04.327 --> 00:30:07.497
IS YOUR SERVICEESSENTIAL?
00:30:07.497 --> 00:30:09.766
IS CHURCH ESSENTIAL?
00:30:09.766 --> 00:30:12.035
PASTOR KEN GRAVES INBANGOR, MAINE, SUED THE
00:30:12.035 --> 00:30:14.771
GOVERNOR OF HIS STATEBECAUSE THEY DEEMED
00:30:14.771 --> 00:30:17.340
CHURCH SERVICES IN HISBUILDING AS NON-ESSENTIAL.
00:30:17.340 --> 00:30:20.777
IN FACT, ACCORDING TO HISSTATE'S DEFINITION, THE
00:30:20.777 --> 00:30:23.580
CHURCH CAN HOLD SECULARBUT NOT RELIGIOUS
00:30:23.580 --> 00:30:26.783
MEETINGS IN THESAME BUILDING.
00:30:26.783 --> 00:30:29.786
THE CHURCH CAN FEED,SHELTER AND PROVIDE
00:30:29.786 --> 00:30:31.922
SOCIAL SERVICES TO ANUNLIMITED NUMBER OF
00:30:31.922 --> 00:30:34.791
PEOPLE, BUT RELIGIOUSSERVICES REMAIN LIMITED
00:30:34.791 --> 00:30:38.361
IN SIZE AND SCOPE.
00:30:38.361 --> 00:30:40.463
ACCORDING TO PASTOR KEN,THIS SHOWED EXPLICIT
00:30:40.463 --> 00:30:44.234
DISCRIMINATION AGAINSTRELIGIOUS GATHERINGS.
00:30:44.234 --> 00:30:47.070
PASTOR KEN JOINS USTONIGHT TO TALK ABOUT HOW
00:30:47.070 --> 00:30:50.140
ESSENTIAL THE CHURCH IS.WELCOME KEN.
00:30:50.140 --> 00:30:54.377
- THANK YOU. GOOD TOBE HERE WITH YOU.
00:30:54.377 --> 00:30:56.179
- SO TELL ME, IS YOURCHURCH ESSENTIAL?
00:30:56.179 --> 00:31:00.250
- IS IT ESSENTIAL?
00:31:00.250 --> 00:31:02.419
IT IS A PRESUMPTUOUS THINGFOR ANY TYRANT TO
00:31:02.419 --> 00:31:04.888
SUDDENLY DETERMINE THATANYONE'S ENTERPRISE,
00:31:04.888 --> 00:31:07.490
IMAGINE SOMEBODY SAYING THATYOUR HOME IS NOT ESSENTIAL
00:31:07.490 --> 00:31:11.261
OR YOUR FOOD ISNOT ESSENTIAL.
00:31:11.261 --> 00:31:12.996
WHAT THE ABOUT THEMEANS FOR PAYING FOR
00:31:12.996 --> 00:31:15.065
THAT HOME AND THAT FOOD?
00:31:15.065 --> 00:31:17.200
I REALLY HAVE TAKENEXCEPTION TO THE FACT
00:31:17.200 --> 00:31:20.136
THAT JESUS CHRISTCONSIDERS THE CHURCH SO
00:31:20.136 --> 00:31:23.907
ESSENTIAL THAT HE WOULDDIE FOR IT, AND THAT A
00:31:23.907 --> 00:31:26.710
GOVERNMENT OFFICIALPRESUMPTUOUSLY DETERMINES
00:31:26.710 --> 00:31:29.879
THAT IT'S NOT,IT'S NOT NECESSARY.
00:31:29.879 --> 00:31:33.116
THE IRONY IS, TOM, THATOUR PEOPLE CAN GATHER,
00:31:33.116 --> 00:31:35.819
THEY CAN GATHER FORPURPOSES THAT THE
00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:37.787
GOVERNMENT ALLOWS.
00:31:37.787 --> 00:31:39.255
WE WORK WITHDRUG ADDICTS.
00:31:39.255 --> 00:31:40.857
THEY ALLOW USTO CONTINUE.
00:31:40.857 --> 00:31:42.292
EVEN DURING THE STRICTESTEARLY SEASON OF SHUTDOWN,
00:31:42.292 --> 00:31:47.430
WE WERE ALLOWED BYTHE GOVERNMENT, OUR
00:31:47.430 --> 00:31:49.966
GOVERNOR'S GUIDELINES TOACTUALLY CONTINUE OUR
00:31:49.966 --> 00:31:53.003
WORK WITH DRUG ADDICTS,AND THAT INVOLVES
00:31:53.003 --> 00:31:54.804
BRINGING THEM ALLTOGETHER
00:31:54.804 --> 00:31:56.639
AND INSTRUCTING THEM.
00:31:56.639 --> 00:31:58.308
BASICALLY, WE'RE DOINGCHURCH WITH THE DRUG
00:31:58.308 --> 00:32:00.744
ADDICTS. THEY WERE ESSENTIAL.
00:32:00.744 --> 00:32:04.080
BUT THE REST OF OURCONGREGATION HAD TO BE
00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.216
KEPT OFF THE PROPERTYAND OUTSIDE OUR DOORS.
00:32:06.216 --> 00:32:08.952
THAT ONLY LASTED ABOUTFOUR WEEKS FOR US BEFORE
00:32:08.952 --> 00:32:11.388
WE SAID, WE'RE TRYING TOGET OUR FEET UNDER THIS
00:32:11.388 --> 00:32:13.590
EARLY ON. WE SAIDTHIS CANNOT STAND.
00:32:13.590 --> 00:32:16.593
OUR PEOPLE CAN GATHER ASLONG AS THAT GATHERING
00:32:16.593 --> 00:32:18.995
WAS OVER AT WALMART.
00:32:18.995 --> 00:32:20.864
THEY COULD GATHER FOR THENECESSARY COMMERCE BUT
00:32:20.864 --> 00:32:23.967
NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OFHEARING THE WORD OF GOD.
00:32:23.967 --> 00:32:27.670
THIS WAS BLATANTDISCRIMINATION.
00:32:27.670 --> 00:32:30.673
- WOW.
00:32:30.673 --> 00:32:31.841
AND HOW DID YOU COME INCONTACT WITH MATT STAVER
00:32:31.841 --> 00:32:34.344
AND LIBERTY COUNSEL?
00:32:34.344 --> 00:32:35.445
DID YOU GUYS KNOW EACHOTHER PRIOR TO THIS?
00:32:35.445 --> 00:32:37.914
- I'M GRATEFUL TO HAVE AFRIEND LIKE MATT STAVER
00:32:37.914 --> 00:32:42.419
AND GRATEFUL THAT I HADHIS CELL PHONE NUMBER IN
00:32:42.419 --> 00:32:45.255
MY PHONE, AND I HAD TOCALL AND MAKE MY CASE,
00:32:45.255 --> 00:32:49.692
WHAT WE'REDEALING WITH HERE.
00:32:49.692 --> 00:32:50.760
THEY HAD TO EXPLAIN TO MEMANY THINGS THAT I DID
00:32:50.760 --> 00:32:53.363
NOT KNOW, THAT I DID NOTKNOW THAT WERE PART OF
00:32:53.363 --> 00:32:55.532
THE FIRST CIRCUITCOURT OF APPEALS.
00:32:55.532 --> 00:32:57.667
WE'RE IN THE NORTHEASTCORNER, AND WE ARE UNDER
00:32:57.667 --> 00:33:00.570
THE RULE OF THE SECONDMOST LIBERAL COURT IN
00:33:00.570 --> 00:33:04.641
AMERICA, SO THAT WOULDINVOLVE TIME, RESOURCES,
00:33:04.641 --> 00:33:09.412
AND I'M GRATEFUL FORLIBERTY COUNSEL.
00:33:09.412 --> 00:33:11.347
THEY SAID GIVE US ACOUPLE OF DAYS TO FIGURE
00:33:11.347 --> 00:33:12.949
THIS OUT AND TALK ANDPRAY, YOU PRAY, AND THEN
00:33:12.949 --> 00:33:15.819
WE'LL DETERMINE WHETHEROR NOT WE CAN DO IT.
00:33:15.819 --> 00:33:17.387
HE CALLED ME BACK UP ANDSAID ARE YOU READY TO
00:33:17.387 --> 00:33:18.755
SUE THE GOVERNOR? ANDI SAID I AM SO READY.
00:33:18.755 --> 00:33:22.225
- MATT, TELL US ABOUTTHAT PHONE CALL.
00:33:22.225 --> 00:33:25.095
- WELL, PASTOR KEN WE'VEKNOWN FOR A LONG TIME.
00:33:25.095 --> 00:33:28.298
HE'S BEEN A GREAT FRIEND,AND I'VE ALWAYS ADMIRED
00:33:28.298 --> 00:33:30.400
THE FACT THAT HE PREACHESTHE WORD OF GOD IN SEASON
00:33:30.400 --> 00:33:33.036
AND OUT OF SEASON. AND ONCEHE MADE THAT DECISION,
00:33:33.036 --> 00:33:36.372
HE WAS READY TO GO.
00:33:36.372 --> 00:33:37.540
I THINK TOM, KEN'S CASEREALLY UNDERSCORES THIS
00:33:37.540 --> 00:33:41.478
DISCRIMINATION BECAUSEAS HE SAID, HE HAS
00:33:41.478 --> 00:33:44.380
A PROGRAM THAT'S ARESIDENTIAL PROGRAM.
00:33:44.380 --> 00:33:46.749
IT'S A YEARLONG FORSUBSTANCE ABUSE INDIVIDUALS.
00:33:46.749 --> 00:33:50.520
HE'S GOT A HOUSE FOR24 WOMEN, 24 MEN.
00:33:50.520 --> 00:33:54.224
THEY COULD MEET IN THECHURCH, BUT THE QUESTION
00:33:54.224 --> 00:33:56.826
IS COULD THEY WORSHIP?WORSHIP WAS BANNED.
00:33:56.826 --> 00:33:59.229
BUT NOBODY ELSE WAS ABLE TOCOME THERE AND WORSHIP.
00:33:59.229 --> 00:34:02.465
SO YOU HAD THIS ONE SIZEFITS ALL TEMPLATE THAT
00:34:02.465 --> 00:34:05.835
THE GOVERNOR AND OTHERGOVERNORS WERE PUTTING ON
00:34:05.835 --> 00:34:08.204
ALL CHURCHES BECAUSE OFTHEIR WRONG VIEW OF
00:34:08.204 --> 00:34:11.007
WHAT A CHURCH IS.
00:34:11.007 --> 00:34:12.542
THE CHURCH THERE ISCRITICALLY ESSENTIAL BECAUSE
00:34:12.542 --> 00:34:15.044
IT IS THE HOME, IT'STHE FAMILY OF THESE PEOPLE.
00:34:15.044 --> 00:34:17.647
- WOW. PASTOR KEN, WHATADDITIONAL AFFECTS HAVE
00:34:17.647 --> 00:34:20.650
YOU SEEN IN YOURCOMMUNITY AS A RESULT
00:34:20.650 --> 00:34:22.752
OF COVID ANDRESTRICTIONS THERE?
00:34:22.752 --> 00:34:25.255
- DEFINITELY THE RESULTOF THE GOVERNMENT'S
00:34:25.255 --> 00:34:29.025
RESPONSE TO COVID HASGENERATED POVERTY.
00:34:29.025 --> 00:34:33.329
THE DRUG ADDICTIONRATE HAS SKYROCKETED.
00:34:33.329 --> 00:34:37.901
DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHSFAR EXCEED THE DEATHS
00:34:37.901 --> 00:34:41.804
THAT THEY WANT TOATTRIBUTE TO COVID.
00:34:41.804 --> 00:34:44.574
OF COURSE WE KNOW THATGAME THAT THEY PLAY, THE
00:34:44.574 --> 00:34:46.543
DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "DYINGWITH" OR "DYING FROM"
00:34:46.543 --> 00:34:50.013
COVID. TWO DIFFERENTREALITIES.
00:34:50.013 --> 00:34:51.981
BUT EVEN THEIR NUMBERSEXAGGERATED, AS I BELIEVE
00:34:51.981 --> 00:34:54.184
THEY ARE, DO NOT COMECLOSE TO THE NUMBERS OF
00:34:54.184 --> 00:34:57.854
DRUG OVERDOSE DEATHSTHAT HAVE BEEN THE
00:34:57.854 --> 00:35:00.657
RESULT OF THE LOCK DOWN.
00:35:00.657 --> 00:35:02.759
- WOW.
00:35:02.759 --> 00:35:03.893
SO KEN, HOW IS YOURCHURCH RESPONDING TO THE
00:35:03.893 --> 00:35:07.197
GOVERNOR'S ORDERS NOW?
00:35:07.197 --> 00:35:09.098
WHAT HAS HAPPENED AS ARESULT OF YOU GOING TO
00:35:09.098 --> 00:35:11.534
COURT ALONG WITH MATTSTAVER REPRESENTING YOU?
00:35:11.534 --> 00:35:15.305
HOW ARE THINGS NOW?WHAT'S GOING ON?
00:35:15.305 --> 00:35:18.608
- WELL, WE HAVE BEEN FREE.
00:35:18.608 --> 00:35:20.443
WE HAVE BEEN UN-HARASSEDWHILE THIS HAS MADE ITS
00:35:20.443 --> 00:35:24.147
WAY THROUGH THE COURTS. WEWENT FIRST TO THE U.S.
00:35:24.147 --> 00:35:26.082
DISTRICT COURT WHEREDENIED QUICKLY.
00:35:26.082 --> 00:35:29.085
JUSTICE IN OUR CAUSE.
00:35:29.085 --> 00:35:30.420
WE MADE OUR APPEAL TO THEFIRST CIRCUIT COURT OF
00:35:30.420 --> 00:35:32.422
APPEALS, AND THEY TOOKMONTHS TO HEAR THE CASE.
00:35:32.422 --> 00:35:35.291
THEN AFTER HEARING OURARGUMENTS, THEY TOOK
00:35:35.291 --> 00:35:37.393
MONTHS TO KICK THECASE BACK TO THE
00:35:37.393 --> 00:35:39.662
U.S. DISTRICT COURT.BUT IN THE MEANTIME,
00:35:39.662 --> 00:35:42.165
OUR GOVERNMENT HASLEFT US ALONE.
00:35:42.165 --> 00:35:44.867
WE'RE VERY FORTUNATE HEREWHERE WE LIVE THAT OUR
00:35:44.867 --> 00:35:47.670
COUNTY SHERIFF HAPPENS TOBE A GOOD FRIEND OF OURS.
00:35:47.670 --> 00:35:50.073
HE ALSO SHARES OURCONVICTION WITH REGARD TO
00:35:50.073 --> 00:35:52.475
OUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTTO FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS
00:35:52.475 --> 00:35:55.078
AND THE RIGHT TOPEACEFUL ASSEMBLY.
00:35:55.078 --> 00:35:57.380
SO THOUGH I BELIEVE HEHAS BEEN PRESSURED TO
00:35:57.380 --> 00:36:00.350
TAKE ACTION AGAINST US,NO ACTION HAS BEEN
00:36:00.350 --> 00:36:02.585
TAKEN, SO WE CONTINUE.
00:36:02.585 --> 00:36:04.020
WE FOLLOW SAFETYPROTOCOLS, BUT WE'VE NOT
00:36:04.020 --> 00:36:07.857
LIMITED OUR NUMBERS ORDONE ANY OF THE THINGS
00:36:07.857 --> 00:36:11.928
THAT THE GOVERNMENT HASIMPOSED UPON ALL THE
00:36:11.928 --> 00:36:13.896
CHURCHES, WHICH TO ME TOMREVEALS THAT MOST OF WHAT
00:36:13.896 --> 00:36:17.867
THE GOVERNMENT IS DOINGAROUND THIS COUNTRY IS
00:36:17.867 --> 00:36:21.437
BLUFF. THEY'RE DOINGIT BECAUSE PEOPLE,
00:36:21.437 --> 00:36:23.306
CHURCHES WILL COMPLY.
00:36:23.306 --> 00:36:25.241
- PASTOR KEN, WHAT WOULDYOU SAY TO CHRISTIANS WHO
00:36:25.241 --> 00:36:27.543
ARE TUNING IN WATCHINGTHIS BROADCAST TONIGHT.
00:36:27.543 --> 00:36:29.812
WHY IS IT IMPORTANTTO TAKE A STAND?
00:36:29.812 --> 00:36:32.382
- THAT HAS BEEN ASTRUGGLE FOR ME TOM,
00:36:32.382 --> 00:36:34.250
HONESTLY, TO ANSWER THATGRACIOUSLY, TO ALLOW FOR
00:36:34.250 --> 00:36:39.122
THE FACT THAT WE'VE GOTTWO AND A HALF CENTURIES
00:36:39.122 --> 00:36:41.691
OF AMERICAN PASTORSBEING ABLE TO TRUST
00:36:41.691 --> 00:36:44.327
OUR GOVERNMENT, ANDTHERE IS NO SORT OF
00:36:44.327 --> 00:36:47.830
INSTINCT TO REBEL.
00:36:47.830 --> 00:36:49.999
OUR PASTORS UNDERSTANDROMANS CHAPTER 13,
00:36:49.999 --> 00:36:54.737
1 PETER CHAPTER 2, AND THEADMONITION TO BE GOOD
00:36:54.737 --> 00:36:57.407
CITIZENS AND OBEY THE LAWTO SUCH A DEGREE THAT
00:36:57.407 --> 00:37:01.411
THEY DON'T RECOGNIZE THATTHE LAW IS SOMETHING, THE
00:37:01.411 --> 00:37:04.914
GOVERNMENT HAS STEPPEDOUT FROM UNDER THE
00:37:04.914 --> 00:37:07.483
AUTHORITY OF THE UNITEDSTATES CONSTITUTION.
00:37:07.483 --> 00:37:11.020
IT IS THERE THAT IBELIEVE OUR CHOICE MUST
00:37:11.020 --> 00:37:14.157
BE THAT WE WILL, IN THEAPPLICATION OF SCRIPTURE,
00:37:14.157 --> 00:37:18.628
BEING OBEDIENT TO OURGOVERNMENT, CHOOSE BETTER
00:37:18.628 --> 00:37:23.700
TO OBEY THE CONSTITUTIONTHAN TO OBEY THOSE
00:37:23.700 --> 00:37:26.803
TYRANTS WHO HAVESTEPPED OUT FROM
00:37:26.803 --> 00:37:28.304
UNDER THAT CONSTITUTION.
00:37:28.304 --> 00:37:29.806
I REALLY THINK THAT ATTHE ISSUE OF SORT OF THE
00:37:29.806 --> 00:37:32.542
DOCTRINAL THEOLOGICALDIVISION THAT MIGHT BE
00:37:32.542 --> 00:37:35.778
GOING ON BETWEENCHRISTIANS IS THAT
00:37:35.778 --> 00:37:38.681
UNDERSTANDING OF EXACTLYWHAT ARE WE SUPPOSED TO
00:37:38.681 --> 00:37:40.550
BE IN SUBMISSION TO.
00:37:40.550 --> 00:37:41.884
- WOW.
00:37:41.884 --> 00:37:43.019
PASTOR KEN, THANK YOU SOMUCH FOR YOUR STAND, FOR
00:37:43.019 --> 00:37:45.288
YOUR CONTRIBUTION TOTONIGHT, AND FOR HELPING
00:37:45.288 --> 00:37:47.724
OTHERS NOT ONLY WATCHWHAT YOU ARE DOING TO
00:37:47.724 --> 00:37:50.560
TAKE A STAND, BECAUSEWHEN THAT LAW GETS
00:37:50.560 --> 00:37:53.029
WRITTEN LIKE THAT, WHENYOU OVERTURN THOSE
00:37:53.029 --> 00:37:54.964
THINGS, THAT OPENSUP FREEDOM TO MANY.
00:37:54.964 --> 00:37:57.133
SO THANK YOU FOR BEING ACHAMPION OF FREEDOM AND
00:37:57.133 --> 00:38:00.336
STANDING FOR YOUR RIGHTS.
00:38:00.336 --> 00:38:01.537
IT MEANS THE WORLD.
00:38:01.537 --> 00:38:03.039
- HONORED.- BLESSING.
00:38:03.039 --> 00:38:05.541
SO ONE NATION UNDER GOD.
00:38:05.541 --> 00:38:07.543
WHEN THE NATION DOESN'TACT LIKE IT'S UNDER GOD,
00:38:07.543 --> 00:38:10.646
WHAT DO WE DO MATT?
00:38:10.646 --> 00:38:12.248
- WELL, WHEN YOU LOOK ATROMANS 13, IT TALKS ABOUT
00:38:12.248 --> 00:38:14.417
OBEYING THE RULERS, BUTIT TALKS ALSO ABOUT WHAT
00:38:14.417 --> 00:38:17.053
THE PURPOSE OF GOVERNMENTIS, AND THAT IS TO PUNISH
00:38:17.053 --> 00:38:19.622
THE EVIL DOER ANDPROTECT THE GOOD.
00:38:19.622 --> 00:38:22.258
AND JESUS SAYS RENDER TOCAESAR WHAT BELONGS TO
00:38:22.258 --> 00:38:26.095
CAESAR. YOU MAY NOT LIKETO PAY TAXES, BUT YOU
00:38:26.095 --> 00:38:28.231
STILL NEED TO PAY TAXES.
00:38:28.231 --> 00:38:30.466
BUT UNTO GOD WHATBELONGS TO GOD.
00:38:30.466 --> 00:38:32.368
AND THE CHURCH ISBELONGING TO GOD.
00:38:32.368 --> 00:38:35.505
AND AS PASTOR KEN SORIGHTLY SAID, JESUS GAVE
00:38:35.505 --> 00:38:39.108
HIS LIFE FOR THE CHURCH.
00:38:39.108 --> 00:38:41.077
THAT MAKES ITBEYOND ESSENTIAL.
00:38:41.077 --> 00:38:43.212
IT'S ALWAYS BEENESSENTIAL FOR 2.000 YEARS
00:38:43.212 --> 00:38:45.081
BUT IT'S EVEN MOREESSENTIAL NOW DURING THIS
00:38:45.081 --> 00:38:47.583
PANDEMIC BECAUSE INKEN'S STATE, AS HE SAID,
00:38:47.583 --> 00:38:51.654
SUICIDE AND DEPRESSIONHAVE INCREASED.
00:38:51.654 --> 00:38:53.689
THERE'S A TRAGIC STORYOF A 16 YEAR OLD BOY,
00:38:53.689 --> 00:38:56.225
BECAUSE OF ISOLATION,NOT BEING ABLE TO GO TO
00:38:56.225 --> 00:38:59.896
EITHER CHURCH OR TOSCHOOL, JUST ENDED UP
00:38:59.896 --> 00:39:03.299
TAKING HIS LIFE.
00:39:03.299 --> 00:39:04.634
AND WE'VE SEEN THOSENUMBERS TRAGICALLY
00:39:04.634 --> 00:39:07.437
INCREASE ACROSSTHE COUNTRY.
00:39:07.437 --> 00:39:08.938
THERE'S ONLY ONE GROUPIN THE COUNTRY THAT WE
00:39:08.938 --> 00:39:11.974
HAVEN'T SEEN AN INCREASEIN MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEMS
00:39:11.974 --> 00:39:15.278
AND THAT IS INDIVIDUALSWHO REGULARLY ATTEND
00:39:15.278 --> 00:39:17.613
CHURCH IN 2020 COMPAREDTO 2019, AND THAT MAKES A
00:39:17.613 --> 00:39:22.785
DIFFERENCE. THAT'S WHY IT'S--
00:39:22.785 --> 00:39:24.720
- THAT'S DOCUMENTED?
00:39:24.720 --> 00:39:26.189
- IT'S DOCUMENTED BYTHE CENTERS FOR DISEASE
00:39:26.189 --> 00:39:28.291
CONTROL, IT'S DOCUMENTEDBY VARIOUS KINDS OF
00:39:28.291 --> 00:39:30.993
RESEARCH THAT HAS BEENDONE OVER MANY YEARS.
00:39:30.993 --> 00:39:33.629
- SAY THATONE MORE TIME.
00:39:33.629 --> 00:39:34.964
I DON'T WANT THAT TO JUSTBLOW BY SOMEBODY'S--
00:39:34.964 --> 00:39:37.233
- THE GALLUP POLL SAYS,AND IT'S BEEN DOING
00:39:37.233 --> 00:39:40.937
THESE POLLS EVERY YEARREGARDING MENTAL HEALTH
00:39:40.937 --> 00:39:43.372
AND CERTAINLY THOSETHAT ATTEND CHURCH, AND
00:39:43.372 --> 00:39:45.741
THERE'S ONLY ONE CATEGORYOF PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN
00:39:45.741 --> 00:39:48.644
SURVEYED IN 2020 THATDID NOT HAVE A DECREASE,
00:39:48.644 --> 00:39:52.381
DECLINE IN MENTAL HEALTH.
00:39:52.381 --> 00:39:53.616
IN FACT, THEY HAD ANINCREASE IN MENTAL
00:39:53.616 --> 00:39:55.251
HEALTH, AND THAT ISPEOPLE WHO REGULARLY
00:39:55.251 --> 00:39:57.320
ATTEND CHURCH. EVERYBODY ELSE,
00:39:57.320 --> 00:39:59.956
ALL THE DIFFERENTAGE GROUPS, ALL
00:39:59.956 --> 00:40:01.791
THE DIFFERENTDEMOGRAPHICS AND RACES
00:40:01.791 --> 00:40:03.759
AND ETHNICITY HAD ASIGNIFICANT DECREASE.
00:40:03.759 --> 00:40:06.462
AND THERE'S A TRAGICAMOUNT OF INDIVIDUALS,
00:40:06.462 --> 00:40:09.131
EVEN YOUNG PEOPLE, 18 TO24, AND EVEN THOSE FROM
00:40:09.131 --> 00:40:12.602
ELEMENTARY SCHOOL ONUP WHO HAVE CONSIDERED
00:40:12.602 --> 00:40:15.271
SUICIDE OR WHO HAVEACTUALLY COMMITTED
00:40:15.271 --> 00:40:18.508
SUICIDE BECAUSE OF THISISOLATION AND DEPRESSION.
00:40:18.508 --> 00:40:20.776
- THOSE FIGURES ALONEWOULD SEEM TO ME TO MAKE
00:40:20.776 --> 00:40:24.847
THE CHURCH TO BEDEEMED ESSENTIAL.
00:40:24.847 --> 00:40:27.617
MATT, LET'S GET ONTO OUR NEXT PASTOR.
00:40:27.617 --> 00:40:30.520
IN THE FALL, WE BROUGHTYOU A STORY THAT SOUNDED
00:40:30.520 --> 00:40:33.289
MORE LIKE A COLD WAR SPYNOVEL THAN A MODERN-DAY
00:40:33.289 --> 00:40:36.726
AMERICAN HEADLINE.
00:40:36.726 --> 00:40:38.427
PASTOR CRISTIAN IONESCUMOVED HIS FAMILY FROM
00:40:38.427 --> 00:40:41.430
ROMANIA TO THE UNITEDSTATES AFTER EXPERIENCING
00:40:41.430 --> 00:40:43.966
THE TERRORS OFTHE COLD WAR.
00:40:43.966 --> 00:40:46.636
NOW HE LIVES AND PASTORSIN CHICAGO, BUT IT SEEMS
00:40:46.636 --> 00:40:50.106
LIKE HE IS RELIVING THESOVIET ERA RESTRICTIONS
00:40:50.106 --> 00:40:54.043
ON WORSHIP ALLOVER AGAIN.
00:40:54.043 --> 00:40:56.345
LISTEN TO THIS SECRETPOLICE STAKING OUT CHURCH
00:40:56.345 --> 00:40:59.882
GATHERINGS, PASTORS BEINGPUBLICLY PRESSURED BY
00:40:59.882 --> 00:41:02.418
LOCAL OFFICIALS,ROADBLOCKS SET UP IN
00:41:02.418 --> 00:41:04.987
NEIGHBORHOODS PREVENTINGPEOPLE FROM PARKING
00:41:04.987 --> 00:41:08.324
ANYWHERE NEAR HISCHURCH SERVICE.
00:41:08.324 --> 00:41:10.326
THESE ARE NOT HEADLINESFROM COMMUNIST CHINA OR
00:41:10.326 --> 00:41:13.462
STALIN'S SOVIET UNION,BUT THIS IS WHAT PASTOR
00:41:13.462 --> 00:41:17.199
CRISTIAN IS FACINGIN CHICAGO TONIGHT.
00:41:17.199 --> 00:41:20.303
PASTOR CRISTIANIONESCU JOINS US NOW.
00:41:20.303 --> 00:41:23.606
PASTOR, WHEN WE TALKED INTHE FALL, THE CITY HAD
00:41:23.606 --> 00:41:26.208
IMPOSED STRICT RESTRICTIONSON YOUR SERVICES.
00:41:26.208 --> 00:41:29.245
TELL ME WHAT IS GOING ONIN CHICAGO, AND WHAT HAS
00:41:29.245 --> 00:41:32.315
THE CITY DONE TO KEEPYOUR CONGREGANTS FROM
00:41:32.315 --> 00:41:35.618
ATTENDING YOUR CHURCH?
00:41:35.618 --> 00:41:37.620
- WELL, THE LAST THINGTHEY DID WAS DELAY OUR
00:41:37.620 --> 00:41:42.458
COURT CASE WHERE THEYGAVE US CITATIONS FOR
00:41:42.458 --> 00:41:48.164
DISORDERLY CONDUCTAND MOB ACTION.
00:41:48.164 --> 00:41:51.934
AND WE'VE BEEN DELAYEDMONTH TO MONTH,
00:41:51.934 --> 00:41:57.640
AND NOW WE HAVE A COURTCASE HEARING HERE
00:41:57.640 --> 00:42:01.444
IN CHICAGO IN FEBRUARY.
00:42:01.444 --> 00:42:04.480
IN THE MEANTIME, BY THEGRACE OF THE LORD AND
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:08.084
WITH THE HELP OF OURFRIENDS AT LIBERTY
00:42:08.084 --> 00:42:10.720
COUNSEL, WE'RE MOVINGFORWARD WITH OUR CASE
00:42:10.720 --> 00:42:13.289
AGAINST THE GOVERNOR.
00:42:13.289 --> 00:42:14.657
WE ARE WAITING FORA HEARING AT
00:42:14.657 --> 00:42:18.394
THE SUPREME COURT.
00:42:18.394 --> 00:42:19.829
- YOU FLED FROMCOMMUNISM TO COME TO THE
00:42:19.829 --> 00:42:21.797
UNITED STATES, SO HOWDOES YOUR EXPERIENCE
00:42:21.797 --> 00:42:24.867
WITH THESE RESTRICTIONSCOMPARE TO
00:42:24.867 --> 00:42:26.769
WHAT YOU FLED FROM?
00:42:26.769 --> 00:42:28.337
- WELL, I THINK WHAT WESEE HERE IS THE BEGINNING
00:42:28.337 --> 00:42:32.141
STAGES OF SOCIALISM.
00:42:32.141 --> 00:42:37.546
IT COMES IN FORMS OF JUSTCONVINCING THE POPULATION
00:42:37.546 --> 00:42:44.086
THAT THEY ARE RIGHT ANDTHEY WANT THE GOOD,
00:42:44.086 --> 00:42:46.689
THE COMMON GOODFOR EVERYBODY.
00:42:46.689 --> 00:42:49.325
IN THE MEANTIME,THERE ARE A LOT OF
00:42:49.325 --> 00:42:52.094
COVERT OPERATIONS ANDDECEIVING AND LYING.
00:42:52.094 --> 00:42:56.799
WHENEVER YOU HAVE AGOVERNMENT, WHATEVER THE
00:42:56.799 --> 00:42:59.869
NUANCE IS, WHEN THEY WANTTO IMPOSE SOMETHING THAT
00:42:59.869 --> 00:43:05.241
THE POPULATION WOULDREJECT OUTRIGHT, THEY
00:43:05.241 --> 00:43:09.879
HAVE TO EMPLOY ALL KINDSOF STRATEGIES AND TACTICS
00:43:09.879 --> 00:43:16.085
TO DECEIVE THEPOPULATION, TO ELIMINATE
00:43:16.085 --> 00:43:20.690
THE OPPOSITION ONE WAY ORANOTHER, TO DISCREDIT
00:43:20.690 --> 00:43:23.826
THE OPPOSITION ANDTHIS IS WHAT THEY
00:43:23.826 --> 00:43:26.295
ARE DOING RIGHT NOW.
00:43:26.295 --> 00:43:27.530
- SO MATT, YOU REPRESENTPASTOR CRISTIAN,
00:43:27.530 --> 00:43:31.600
SO WHAT IS THIS BATTLE?WHAT'S GOING ON HERE?
00:43:31.600 --> 00:43:34.403
- WELL, IF YOU LOOK ATWHAT HAPPENED IN CHICAGO
00:43:34.403 --> 00:43:36.138
WITH ELIM ROMANIANPENTECOSTAL CHURCH AND
00:43:36.138 --> 00:43:38.107
LOGOS BAPTIST MINISTRIES THATWE REPRESENT, THEY DID A
00:43:38.107 --> 00:43:41.944
LOT OF HARASSMENT, FOREXAMPLE THEY FIRST OF ALL
00:43:41.944 --> 00:43:45.981
TOWED ALL THE CARS AROUNDTHE CHURCH FOR NINE BLOCKS.
00:43:45.981 --> 00:43:49.351
THIS WAS STREET PARKINGOF A RESIDENTIAL
00:43:49.351 --> 00:43:51.987
NEIGHBORHOOD, AND THECHURCH DIDN'T USE STREET
00:43:51.987 --> 00:43:54.256
PARKING, BUT WE SAW THEMTOW THE CARS AND THESE
00:43:54.256 --> 00:43:57.893
RESIDENTS HAD THEIRCARS IMPOUNDED.
00:43:57.893 --> 00:44:00.396
THEN THEY SENT LETTERS TOTHE RESIDENTS SAYING THE
00:44:00.396 --> 00:44:02.531
REASON WHY YOUR CAR HASBEEN TOWED AND YOU CAN'T
00:44:02.531 --> 00:44:04.633
PARK IN FRONT OF YOURHOUSE IS BECAUSE THIS
00:44:04.633 --> 00:44:07.303
CHURCH IS DISOBEYING THEGOVERNOR'S ORDERS, WHICH
00:44:07.303 --> 00:44:09.505
AT THE TIME WAS NOMORE THAN TEN PEOPLE.
00:44:09.505 --> 00:44:11.373
WHEN THAT DIDN'T STOPTHIS ROMANIAN CHURCH,
00:44:11.373 --> 00:44:14.777
THEN THEY HAD FIVE POLICECARS THAT BLOCKED THE
00:44:14.777 --> 00:44:17.980
ENTRANCE TO THEIRPRIVATE PARKING LOT.
00:44:17.980 --> 00:44:19.682
BUT THE PEOPLE, BEINGUSED TO PERSECUTION
00:44:19.682 --> 00:44:23.519
EITHER DIRECTLY ORTHROUGH THEIR ANCESTORS
00:44:23.519 --> 00:44:25.387
IN ROMANIA, THAT DIDN'TSTOP THEM EITHER.
00:44:25.387 --> 00:44:27.890
THEY DROPPED OFF PARTS OFTHEIR FAMILY, THEY THEN
00:44:27.890 --> 00:44:30.693
DROVE FOR NINE, TEN,ELEVEN BLOCKS, CAME BACK
00:44:30.693 --> 00:44:33.963
IN RAIN AND FREEZINGCOLD AND WENT TO CHURCH.
00:44:33.963 --> 00:44:37.266
WHEN THAT DIDN'T STOPTHEM, THEY CHARGED THE
00:44:37.266 --> 00:44:39.635
PASTOR WITH DISORDERLYCONDUCT FOR HAVING
00:44:39.635 --> 00:44:41.337
MORE THAN TEN PEOPLE.
00:44:41.337 --> 00:44:42.638
WHEN THAT DIDN'T SHUTDOWN THE CHURCH, THEY
00:44:42.638 --> 00:44:44.540
SENT THEM TWO LETTERSFROM THE PUBLIC HEALTH
00:44:44.540 --> 00:44:46.208
DEPARTMENT. THE LAST ONESAID WE'RE GOING TO
00:44:46.208 --> 00:44:48.377
EXECUTE SOME RE-ABATEMENT.
00:44:48.377 --> 00:44:50.012
IN ILLINOIS THAT MEANSDESTROYING THE ACTUAL
00:44:50.012 --> 00:44:52.114
BUILDING. THAT'S HOWEXTREME IT WAS.
00:44:52.114 --> 00:44:55.384
- NOW WERE YOU INVOLVEDTHROUGH ALL THESE PHASES?
00:44:55.384 --> 00:44:57.887
- YES, IN FACT IT WASAFTER THEY STARTED
00:44:57.887 --> 00:44:59.622
WORSHIPPING AND THEY DIDALL KINDS OF MODEL SOCIAL
00:44:59.622 --> 00:45:04.493
DISTANCING AND SANITIZINGTHAT SHOULD BE A MODEL
00:45:04.493 --> 00:45:07.596
FOR EVERYONE ELSE, ANDYET THEY WERE OPPRESSED
00:45:07.596 --> 00:45:10.399
AND THEY HAD THESEEXTREME ACTIONS BY THE
00:45:10.399 --> 00:45:12.868
MAYOR AND THE GOVERNOR.
00:45:12.868 --> 00:45:14.937
SO WHAT WE DID WASWE WENT TO THE U.S.
00:45:14.937 --> 00:45:17.239
SUPREME COURT AND WITHINFOUR HOURS OF THEIR
00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:19.909
RESPONSE, THAT'S WHENTHEY DID A 180
00:45:19.909 --> 00:45:21.811
AND THEY REMOVED THERESTRICTIONS BECAUSE
00:45:21.811 --> 00:45:23.679
THEY WANTED TO MAKE OUR--
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.481
- JUST YOU FILED WITHTHE SUPREME COURT.
00:45:25.481 --> 00:45:27.516
- YEAH BECAUSE THEYDIDN'T WANT TO FACE WHAT
00:45:27.516 --> 00:45:29.385
WAS GOING TO HAPPEN ATTHE U.S. SUPREME COURT.
00:45:29.385 --> 00:45:31.520
BUT NOW WE'REBACK AT THE U.S.
00:45:31.520 --> 00:45:33.355
SUPREME COURT BECAUSE WEHAVE A FINAL DECISION OF
00:45:33.355 --> 00:45:35.324
THE CASE, AND IT'S THEFIRST CASE TO BE ACTUALLY
00:45:35.324 --> 00:45:38.527
HEARD IN THE NEAR FUTUREHOPEFULLY BY THE
00:45:38.527 --> 00:45:40.663
U.S. SUPREME COURT.
00:45:40.663 --> 00:45:42.031
AND ISN'T IT AMAZING,TOM, THAT WE HAVE
00:45:42.031 --> 00:45:44.767
ROMANIAN IMMIGRANTSWHO LOVE AMERICA, WHO
00:45:44.767 --> 00:45:47.636
IMMIGRATED HERE TO FLEESOCIALISM IN ROMANIA,
00:45:47.636 --> 00:45:51.040
AND NOW THEY'RE AT THESUPREME COURT DEFENDING
00:45:51.040 --> 00:45:53.142
RELIGIOUS FREEDOM FORALL PEOPLE OF FAITH.
00:45:53.142 --> 00:45:56.445
- SO PASTOR, IS THE CHURCHIN AMERICA IN TROUBLE?
00:45:56.445 --> 00:46:00.649
- UM, I'M GOING TO BEVERY HONEST WITH YOU.
00:46:00.649 --> 00:46:06.355
I AM A LITTLEDISAPPOINTED BY WHAT
00:46:06.355 --> 00:46:09.158
I SEE IN CHURCHESIN AMERICA.
00:46:09.158 --> 00:46:12.294
OUR CHURCH WILL CONTINUETO BE OPEN, AND LISTEN,
00:46:12.294 --> 00:46:17.299
I UNDERSTAND THERESERVATIONS.
00:46:17.299 --> 00:46:19.768
WE HAVE TO BE GRATEFUL TOOUR FRIENDS AT LIBERTY
00:46:19.768 --> 00:46:22.638
COUNSEL AND MATT STAVERPARTICULARLY AND OUR
00:46:22.638 --> 00:46:27.076
FRIEND HARRY BECAUSETHEY STOOD WITH US.
00:46:27.076 --> 00:46:30.546
WHEN A CHURCH IS ATTACKEDBY THE GOVERNMENT, ONE OF
00:46:30.546 --> 00:46:34.783
THE ARMS THEY NEED TOUSE TO GET OUT OF THAT
00:46:34.783 --> 00:46:38.821
SITUATION ISTHE LEGAL ARM.
00:46:38.821 --> 00:46:42.291
AND IF YOU DON'T HAVEGOOD REPRESENTATION, AND IF
00:46:42.291 --> 00:46:45.694
YOU DON'T HAVE LIBERTYCOUNSEL ON YOUR SIDE, YOU
00:46:45.694 --> 00:46:50.900
ARE FACED WITH TERRIBLECOSTS, AND SO I
00:46:50.900 --> 00:46:55.237
UNDERSTAND WHY A LOTOF PASTORS WOULD HAVE
00:46:55.237 --> 00:46:58.374
RESERVATIONS, BUT AT THESAME TIME, ONCE WE ARE AT
00:46:58.374 --> 00:47:02.244
THE FOREFRONT OF THISMOVEMENT AND WE CAN
00:47:02.244 --> 00:47:05.648
CREATE PRECEDENCE, I AMDISAPPOINTED THAT THE
00:47:05.648 --> 00:47:09.652
AMERICAN CHURCHES ARENOT OPEN, MANY AMERICAN,
00:47:09.652 --> 00:47:15.591
PROBABLY MOST AMERICANCHURCHES ARE NOT OPEN TO
00:47:15.591 --> 00:47:18.894
CAPACITY. WE NEED TO STANDUP TO THE GOVERNMENT.
00:47:18.894 --> 00:47:21.864
THE ROMANIAN CHURCH KNOWSTHAT IN ROMANIA, IF YOU
00:47:21.864 --> 00:47:26.468
DON'T STEP UP TO THEPLATE, IF YOU DON'T STAND
00:47:26.468 --> 00:47:30.039
UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS RIGHTIN THE BEGINNING, THEY'RE
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:33.008
GOING TO TAKE CHUNKS OFYOUR LIBERTY, LITTLE BY
00:47:33.008 --> 00:47:36.545
LITTLE AND PUSH YOUINTO A CORNER AND
00:47:36.545 --> 00:47:39.081
PUSH YOU ON THE GROUND.
00:47:39.081 --> 00:47:40.649
AND WE CAN SEE THISIN AMERICA RIGHT NOW.
00:47:40.649 --> 00:47:45.788
CHURCHES, PASTORS ONTHEIR HEELS BENDING
00:47:45.788 --> 00:47:49.291
BACKWARDS TRYINGTO SURVIVE.
00:47:49.291 --> 00:47:51.860
THIS IS NO WAY YOU'REGOING TO COME OUT
00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:54.630
WELL OUT OF THIS.
00:47:54.630 --> 00:47:56.799
YOU HAVE TO STAND UP,YOU HAVE TO DEFEAT THE
00:47:56.799 --> 00:48:00.169
SYSTEM, YOU HAVE TODISOBEY THE SYSTEM IN A
00:48:00.169 --> 00:48:03.272
PEACEFUL MANNER, BUTYOU HAVE TO DO IT.
00:48:03.272 --> 00:48:06.909
I CANNOT EMPHASIZE ENOUGHHOW GRATEFUL OUR CHURCH
00:48:06.909 --> 00:48:11.447
AND MYSELF PERSONALLYARE TO MATT STAVER AND
00:48:11.447 --> 00:48:14.717
LIBERTY COUNSEL FOR THEHELP THEY GAVE US, BUT WE
00:48:14.717 --> 00:48:18.053
ARE IN THE PROCESS OFGIVING THE BLUEPRINT FOR
00:48:18.053 --> 00:48:20.556
EVERY CHURCH TO EXERCISETHEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS
00:48:20.556 --> 00:48:25.160
AND STILL THE CONSTITUTIONALRIGHTS THAT WE HAVE.
00:48:25.160 --> 00:48:29.298
- PASTOR CRISTIANIONESCU, THANK YOU SO
00:48:29.298 --> 00:48:31.133
MUCH FOR YOUR STANCE.
00:48:31.133 --> 00:48:33.369
THANK YOU FOREDUCATING US.
00:48:33.369 --> 00:48:35.170
YOU LIVED THROUGHTHIS ONCE.
00:48:35.170 --> 00:48:36.772
YOU'RE WARNING US NOWIT'S TIME FOR CHURCHES
00:48:36.772 --> 00:48:39.308
TO TAKE A STAND.
00:48:39.308 --> 00:48:40.642
GOD BLESS AND KEEP YOUTHERE IN CHICAGO BROTHER.
00:48:40.642 --> 00:48:42.611
THANK YOU.
00:48:42.611 --> 00:48:44.747
- THANK YOU VERY MUCH ANDMAY GOD BLESS YOU TOO.
00:48:44.747 --> 00:48:48.317
- SO MATT, WHEREDO WE GO FROM HERE?
00:48:48.317 --> 00:48:50.519
- WELL, YOU KNOW, ASPASTOR CRISTIAN SAYS, I
00:48:50.519 --> 00:48:52.554
THINK IT'S TIME TO OPENCHURCHES, AND OBVIOUSLY
00:48:52.554 --> 00:48:55.290
YOU CAN DO THAT IN ASMART WAY TO PROTECT THE
00:48:55.290 --> 00:48:57.626
HEALTH. NOBODY WANTS TO PUTANYBODY IN DANGER,
00:48:57.626 --> 00:48:59.962
BUT THE CONSEQUENCESOF KEEPING CHURCHES
00:48:59.962 --> 00:49:01.964
CLOSED ARE CATASTROPHIC.
00:49:01.964 --> 00:49:04.166
AND WE'RE GONNACONTINUE TO LITIGATE.
00:49:04.166 --> 00:49:05.901
WE REPRESENT CHURCHES ALLOVER THE COUNTRY, AND
00:49:05.901 --> 00:49:08.137
WE'RE AVAILABLE TOTALK TO PASTORS ALL
00:49:08.137 --> 00:49:10.205
OVER AMERICA TO MAKESURE THAT THEIR
00:49:10.205 --> 00:49:12.841
LIBERTIES ARE PROTECTED.
00:49:12.841 --> 00:49:14.343
AND WE'LL ULTIMATELYWIN THIS, AS I SAID.
00:49:14.343 --> 00:49:16.311
I DON'T USUALLY PREDICTTHAT FOR CASES BECAUSE
00:49:16.311 --> 00:49:18.714
YOU JUST NEVER KNOW, BUTI KNOW THE ROAD MAP THAT
00:49:18.714 --> 00:49:21.417
THE SUPREME COURT GAVE ONTHANKSGIVING EVE, WHEN
00:49:21.417 --> 00:49:23.819
YOU FOLLOW THAT, THEINEVITABLE RESULT IS
00:49:23.819 --> 00:49:25.954
THESE RESTRICTIONSARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.
00:49:25.954 --> 00:49:28.123
SO WE WILL WIN THISLITIGATION, AND WE'RE
00:49:28.123 --> 00:49:30.192
GONNA CONTINUE TOPRESS FORWARD IN 2021.
00:49:30.192 --> 00:49:32.361
WE NEVER WANT TO GO DOWNTHIS ROAD AGAIN, AND WE
00:49:32.361 --> 00:49:35.531
WILL MAKE SURE WE DON'T.
00:49:35.531 --> 00:49:37.499
- MATT, I'M SURE THATTHOSE WHO ARE WATCHING
00:49:37.499 --> 00:49:40.135
TONIGHT WHO HAVE WATCHEDTHE FIRST PASTORS UNDER
00:49:40.135 --> 00:49:42.404
FIRE ARE WONDERING, THEYWANT TO KEEP UP WITH
00:49:42.404 --> 00:49:44.706
WHAT YOU'RE DOING ATLIBERTY COUNSEL.
00:49:44.706 --> 00:49:46.208
THEY WANT TO KNOWMORE INFORMATION.
00:49:46.208 --> 00:49:47.676
THEY WANT TO KEEPUP WITH THESE CASES.
00:49:47.676 --> 00:49:49.545
HOW DO PEOPLE GET INCONTACT WITH YOU?
00:49:49.545 --> 00:49:51.180
HOW DO THEY? DO YOUHAVE A NEWSLETTER?
00:49:51.180 --> 00:49:53.449
HOW DO PEOPLESTAY IN TOUCH?
00:49:53.449 --> 00:49:55.284
- WELL, THEY CAN GOTO OUR WEBSITE LC.ORG.
00:49:55.284 --> 00:49:58.353
- WE'LL PUT THAT AT THEBOTTOM OF THE SCREEN.
00:49:58.353 --> 00:50:00.522
- LC.ORG.
00:50:00.522 --> 00:50:02.791
AND ON THE WEB PAGE, YOUCAN GO TO THE SUBSCRIBE
00:50:02.791 --> 00:50:05.828
BUTTON AND GET OURFREE EMAILS AND OUR
00:50:05.828 --> 00:50:09.164
NEWSLETTERS, AND THATWILL KEEP YOU IN THE LOOP.
00:50:09.164 --> 00:50:11.600
AND THERE'S ALSO A WAY TOCALL US AND ALSO A WAY TO
00:50:11.600 --> 00:50:14.269
GIVE INFORMATIONABOUT QUESTIONS.
00:50:14.269 --> 00:50:16.038
LC.ORG IS THE REALPLACE TO GO
00:50:16.038 --> 00:50:18.774
FOR ALL THAT INFORMATION.
00:50:18.774 --> 00:50:20.142
- AND I'M SURE THESEPASTORS ARE PAYING YOU
00:50:20.142 --> 00:50:21.677
THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS FORYOUR LEGAL WORK, RIGHT?
00:50:21.677 --> 00:50:24.313
- NO, WE DON'TCHARGE ANYTHING.
00:50:24.313 --> 00:50:25.714
WE'RE A MINISTRY IN THELAW, AND WE KNOW THAT
00:50:25.714 --> 00:50:28.951
PEOPLE THAT WE REPRESENTCOULDN'T AFFORD
00:50:28.951 --> 00:50:31.320
WHAT IT WOULD COST TORETAIN AN ATTORNEY.
00:50:31.320 --> 00:50:34.056
- SO YOU'RE A 501(C)3?
00:50:34.056 --> 00:50:35.624
- A 501(C)3.
00:50:35.624 --> 00:50:36.992
- JUST LIKE A CHURCH,PEOPLE WHO MAKE DONATIONS
00:50:36.992 --> 00:50:39.528
TO YOU WOULD BE ATAX-FREE DEDUCTION.
00:50:39.528 --> 00:50:41.396
- YES, EXACTLY.
00:50:41.396 --> 00:50:43.098
LIBERTY COUNSEL HAS BEENTAX DEDUCTIBLE SINCE ITS
00:50:43.098 --> 00:50:45.167
INCEPTION IN 1989 ANDTHAT'S HOW WE OPERATE IS
00:50:45.167 --> 00:50:48.070
THROUGH GIFTSOF INDIVIDUALS.
00:50:48.070 --> 00:50:50.339
WE'RE THEN ABLE TO EXTENDTHAT REACH TO GO OUT
00:50:50.339 --> 00:50:53.575
AND REPRESENT PEOPLELIKE PASTOR CHE'.
00:50:53.575 --> 00:50:55.210
AND THESE CASES AREENORMOUSLY EXPENSIVE,
00:50:55.210 --> 00:50:58.147
BUT THE COST OF NOTREPRESENTING RELIGIOUS
00:50:58.147 --> 00:51:01.183
FREEDOM OR THE SANCTITYOF HUMAN LIFE IS EVEN
00:51:01.183 --> 00:51:02.951
MORE CONSEQUENTIAL.
00:51:02.951 --> 00:51:04.686
SO WE SURVIVE AND WEEXIST AND THE MINISTRY
00:51:04.686 --> 00:51:07.656
OPERATES THROUGH PRAYERSAND FINANCIAL SUPPORT OF
00:51:07.656 --> 00:51:10.692
INDIVIDUALS AROUNDTHE COUNTRY.
00:51:10.692 --> 00:51:12.294
- WOW, FOLKS, OF THOSEOF YOU WATCHING, I THINK
00:51:12.294 --> 00:51:14.630
IT'S AN ORGANIZATION THATNEEDS OUR SUPPORT, SO
00:51:14.630 --> 00:51:17.366
PLEASE, IF GOD LAYS IT ONYOUR HEART TO DO THAT,
00:51:17.366 --> 00:51:19.635
PLEASE MAKE A GIFTTHAT DIRECTION AND
00:51:19.635 --> 00:51:21.637
BE PRAYING FOR THEM.
00:51:21.637 --> 00:51:22.738
I MEAN, YOU'VE ARGUEDIN FRONT OF THE SUPREME
00:51:22.738 --> 00:51:24.940
COURT MANY TIMES, YOU'REREPRESENTING OVER 1700
00:51:24.940 --> 00:51:27.910
CHURCHES IN CALIFORNIA?
00:51:27.910 --> 00:51:29.778
- WE'RE REPRESENTINGIN THE HUNDREDS JUST IN
00:51:29.778 --> 00:51:32.614
CALIFORNIA ALONE,BUT WE REPRESENT
00:51:32.614 --> 00:51:34.616
OVER 2.000 NATIONWIDE.
00:51:34.616 --> 00:51:37.085
- WOW. SO YOU'VE GOT YOURWORK CUT OUT FOR YOU.
00:51:37.085 --> 00:51:39.454
YOU SAID YOU'REWORKING WEEKENDS.
00:51:39.454 --> 00:51:41.557
- AND EVENINGS AND EARLYMORNINGS, AND THAT'S
00:51:41.557 --> 00:51:44.126
JUST ON THE CHURCHES.
00:51:44.126 --> 00:51:45.394
WE HAVE MANY OTHERCASES AS WELL.
00:51:45.394 --> 00:51:47.062
- WOW. THANK YOU MATT STAVERFOR ALL YOU'RE DOING.
00:51:47.062 --> 00:51:49.031
GOD BLESS.
00:51:49.031 --> 00:51:49.031

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