Did the Exodus Really Happen? Part 2 | TBN

Did the Exodus Really Happen? Part 2

Watch Did the Exodus Really Happen? Part 2
August 18, 2020
22:59

Today on InGrace; Jim Scudder; Jr. is again joined by Christian filmaker Timothy Mahoney as the two men discuss is veracity of Scripture and if the Exodus really did happen.

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Did the Exodus Really Happen? Part 2

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  • Jim Scudder Jr.: Today on "InGrace," we're in Minnesota to
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  • talk to filmmaker TimothyMahoney about the miracles
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  • of the Bible.
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  • Did they really happen?
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  • ♪♪♪
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  • Jim: Ever since I was a boy,I've been fascinated
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  • with God's creation.
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  • I'm traveling the planet totell his story about his world.
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  • I'm Jim Scudder Jr. Come withme on another
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  • exciting adventure in grace.
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  • ♪♪♪
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  • ♪♪♪
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  • ♪♪♪
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  • male: It's not just amatter of historical curiosity.
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  • Well, Moses wrote these booksand not some anonymous figure.
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  • It is that Moses isthe chosen man of God.
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  • Jim: Welcome to "In Grace."
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  • We're in Minnesota doing one ofmy most favorite activities, and
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  • that's fishing.
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  • But whenever I'm out in thewater, I start to drift in my
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  • thinking toward the Bible andwhat would it have been like as
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  • Jesus spent a lot of time around
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  • the sea of Galilee andwith fishermen.
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  • But one of the greatest miraclesin the Bible is when Jesus was
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  • asleep in the boat and there wasa storm, and they woke him up
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  • and said, "Master,we're going to die."
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  • And he stood up and hejust said, "Peace, be still."
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  • And instantly, the windstopped and the waves stopped.
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  • So, the question we're goingto ask today on "In Grace" is,
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  • are miracles real?
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  • The miracles of theBible, did they really happen?
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  • Especially themiracles of Exodus.
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  • You're going to absolutelylove today's "In Grace" with
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  • filmmaker Timothy Mahoney.
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  • ♪♪♪
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  • CC by Aberdeen Captioning(800) 688-6621www.abercap.com
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  • Jim: Tim Mahoney, great tohave you on "In Grace" today.
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  • I've been so blessed by watchingyour movies,
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  • "The Patterns of Evidence."
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  • Timothy Mahoney: Well, it'sgreat to be on your show, Jim.
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  • Jim: Well, listen, I again amvery impressed with your work.
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  • And it's not just the thematicpart of it, and it's really a
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  • fun movie to watch, but it'salso just the content is so near
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  • and dear to my heart because,like you, I grew up in a
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  • Bible-believing home, but I'vealways had a few questions about
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  • some of these things.
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  • And then when you hearthese quote unquote mainstream
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  • scholars that don't believe thatMoses wrote, you know, Exodus,
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  • or it didn't even happen orwhatever, it just--it really
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  • starts to shakeyou a little bit.
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  • Timothy: Yeah, and thishas been a problem for a lot of
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  • young people as they've goneoff to college, to university.
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  • You know, they mightnot have had answers.
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  • And in fact, at one time, Iactually heard from a college
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  • student that basically was sodistraught that they were going
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  • to leave their faith.
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  • And they heard about thefilm
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  • "The Patterns ofEvidence: Exodus."
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  • And afterwards she--after shewatched it, did all sorts of
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  • research, she went to herprofessor and said, "You're
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  • wrong," you know?
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  • And he said, "Whatare you talking about?"
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  • And I think what has happenedis that there's been several
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  • generations where people havebeen diminishing the historical
  • 00:03:55.885 --> 00:03:59.088
  • credibility of the Biblein a very serious way.
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  • And they've just been teachingthat to a lot of students.
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  • And what "Patterns" does is itlooks and says, well, is there a
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  • pattern of evidence that matches
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  • what the biblicaltext is saying?
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  • And you know, I didn't know thatI was going to be, you know,
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  • making films like that.
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  • But just like you, I havean interest in history and
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  • archeology and science, andI decided to pursue this.
  • 00:04:19.842 --> 00:04:24.747
  • But it took quite a whileto--you know,
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  • to make the first film.
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  • Jim: And it all startedwith just looking at the whole
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  • Exodus, the concept ofit, is there any evidence.
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  • That's the first--the first filmwas the--it's
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  • "The Patterns of Evidence:The Exodus," right?
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  • So, then that film reallytackled the ideas, you know, do
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  • you find any history of Hebrewsbeing in Egypt around,
  • 00:04:44.233 --> 00:04:47.003
  • you know, that time?
  • 00:04:47.036 --> 00:04:49.038
  • And when was the Exodus?
  • 00:04:49.072 --> 00:04:50.873
  • And that's another bigmisconception that a lot of
  • 00:04:50.907 --> 00:04:54.110
  • archeologists hold to adate that would be
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  • later with Ramesses II.
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  • And they based that all on thatthey had built these
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  • cities of Ramesses.
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  • Timothy: Yes.
  • 00:05:05.588 --> 00:05:07.724
  • Jim: And so, that's theonly piece, but then that can be
  • 00:05:07.757 --> 00:05:09.559
  • explained by just saying, well,someone knew that that city now
  • 00:05:09.592 --> 00:05:12.795
  • was called Ramesses, but usedto be Avaris or whatever it was.
  • 00:05:12.829 --> 00:05:15.998
  • So, that one piece has misledso many people over all these
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  • years, but there's otherScriptures like the dating of
  • 00:05:20.670 --> 00:05:23.406
  • Solomon's Temple and things likethat that would say, no, this
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  • happened earlier in time.
  • 00:05:26.342 --> 00:05:28.678
  • And then you look earlier intime and you do see evidence,
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  • and that's what I loved aboutthat first film, was seeing the
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  • settlement there inAvaris, Tell El-Dab'a.
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  • And Manfred Beitak was doing theexcavations, and he found this
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  • palace, he found 12 tombs.
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  • One was enlarged with astatue that had a colored coat.
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  • Timothy: Yeah,multi-colored coat.
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  • Jim: With ahaircut of a Semite.
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  • Yeah, I mean, just I don't
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  • know that people haveever heard that.
  • 00:05:57.073 --> 00:05:58.841
  • And that was just one piece, andyou had beautiful animations of
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  • all this, where you could justvisualize this people that was
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  • prospering just asthe Bible had said.
  • 00:06:04.313 --> 00:06:06.048
  • Timothy: Right, right.
  • 00:06:06.082 --> 00:06:07.617
  • It's been such a long process ofcoming to a place where
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  • we could uncover information.
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  • And what's interesting isthat--is that a pattern is an
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  • important device.
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  • It's the scientificmethod, you know?
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  • And I think that what hashappened in the past is
  • 00:06:24.734 --> 00:06:26.736
  • sometimes people look forjust one idea and they hang
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  • everything around that oneidea, but it's like putting
  • 00:06:30.139 --> 00:06:32.575
  • together a puzzle.
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  • If you can only get onelittle piece in there, but it's
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  • not--rest of it's not fitting.
  • 00:06:36.512 --> 00:06:38.314
  • So, when you have a pattern, youneed a one, two, three, four,
  • 00:06:38.347 --> 00:06:40.783
  • five, it needs to be apattern in a sequence.
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  • And what the films are tryingto establish is, what does the
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  • Bible say happened?
  • 00:06:48.357 --> 00:06:50.359
  • And can you find that sequence,that sequence of events
  • 00:06:50.393 --> 00:06:53.729
  • that match it?
  • 00:06:53.763 --> 00:06:55.364
  • And in the first film "TheExodus," once again was, is
  • 00:06:55.398 --> 00:06:58.534
  • there evidence that a group ofpeople came into Egypt, invited
  • 00:06:58.568 --> 00:07:04.307
  • to live there, and they wereSemitic, people and that they
  • 00:07:04.340 --> 00:07:08.177
  • prospered, but then later onthey would go into slavery?
  • 00:07:08.211 --> 00:07:11.747
  • And then later on, there wouldbe a judgement on Egypt, there'd
  • 00:07:11.781 --> 00:07:15.418
  • be judgment and plagues.
  • 00:07:15.451 --> 00:07:17.253
  • And then these people wouldleave and depart hastily.
  • 00:07:17.286 --> 00:07:22.091
  • Jim: And you were askingthe question to a lot
  • 00:07:22.124 --> 00:07:23.926
  • of very smart people.
  • 00:07:23.960 --> 00:07:25.962
  • You know, they had thecredentials and they would say,
  • 00:07:25.995 --> 00:07:27.997
  • "No, there's no evidence."
  • 00:07:28.030 --> 00:07:29.332
  • But then the next--in thenext sentence, they would start
  • 00:07:29.365 --> 00:07:32.668
  • telling about all theevidence like the papyrus
  • 00:07:32.702 --> 00:07:36.105
  • in the Netherlands.
  • 00:07:36.138 --> 00:07:37.840
  • And he says, "No,there's no evidence."
  • 00:07:37.874 --> 00:07:40.510
  • And then he goes torecount this story of--
  • 00:07:40.543 --> 00:07:44.947
  • Timothy: Ipuwer.
  • 00:07:44.981 --> 00:07:47.717
  • Jim: Yeah, and it just goesdown the line, it sounded like
  • 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:49.552
  • he's reading from the Bible.
  • 00:07:49.585 --> 00:07:51.320
  • And then he says and that'sjust--he just made all this up.
  • 00:07:51.354 --> 00:07:53.556
  • Maarten Raven: We have noindependent evidence that this
  • 00:07:53.589 --> 00:07:56.626
  • is real historical events.
  • 00:07:56.659 --> 00:07:59.295
  • We can believe it becausewe believe in the Bible.
  • 00:07:59.328 --> 00:08:02.865
  • There are no Egyptiansources that describe it.
  • 00:08:02.899 --> 00:08:06.836
  • There are no other documents,there are no archeological
  • 00:08:06.869 --> 00:08:10.006
  • sources that could prove thistook place as a mass exodus.
  • 00:08:10.039 --> 00:08:15.711
  • Jim: Written by a scribenamed Ipuwer, the papyrus known
  • 00:08:15.745 --> 00:08:18.614
  • as "The Admonitions of anEgyptian Sage" poetically
  • 00:08:18.648 --> 00:08:22.585
  • describes a series of calamitiesand the chaos that follow.
  • 00:08:22.618 --> 00:08:28.591
  • Maarten: Ipuwer, we don'tknow who he was, but he was
  • 00:08:28.624 --> 00:08:31.928
  • obviously somebody in a positionto address his majesty,
  • 00:08:31.961 --> 00:08:36.098
  • the king.
  • 00:08:36.132 --> 00:08:39.936
  • Timothy: Many believe acollapse of Egypt's power is
  • 00:08:39.969 --> 00:08:42.772
  • exactly what would've happeneddue to the plagues of Exodus.
  • 00:08:42.805 --> 00:08:47.476
  • And as I compared the bookof Exodus to the writings of
  • 00:08:47.510 --> 00:08:50.846
  • Ipuwer, I too wasintrigued by the similarities.
  • 00:08:50.880 --> 00:08:56.786
  • ♪♪♪
  • 00:09:00.623 --> 00:09:02.992
  • Jim: Can you believe thatmost scholar don't believe the
  • 00:09:03.693 --> 00:09:06.228
  • Exodus even happened?
  • 00:09:06.262 --> 00:09:08.197
  • You need to watch "Patterns ofEvidence: The Exodus" to find
  • 00:09:08.230 --> 00:09:11.934
  • out how wrong they are.
  • 00:09:11.968 --> 00:09:14.837
  • male announcer: For a gift of$16.95 or more, you will receive
  • 00:09:14.870 --> 00:09:17.807
  • a DVD copy of the criticallyacclaimed film
  • 00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:21.110
  • "Patterns ofEvidence: The Exodus."
  • 00:09:21.143 --> 00:09:23.813
  • Call now, 800-78-GRACE, or visitingrace.tv to get your copy.
  • 00:09:23.846 --> 00:09:29.619
  • ♪♪♪
  • 00:09:31.096 --> 00:09:32.797
  • Jim: Were you surprised atsome of the--first of all, some
  • 00:09:33.531 --> 00:09:36.534
  • of the skeptics of the Bibleand, you know, the atheists and
  • 00:09:36.568 --> 00:09:39.738
  • stuff at, you know,what they were saying?
  • 00:09:39.771 --> 00:09:43.608
  • Versus were you surprised onsome of the things you heard
  • 00:09:43.641 --> 00:09:47.112
  • that you didn't knowthat supported the Bible?
  • 00:09:47.145 --> 00:09:49.547
  • I mean, I'm assuming there was alot of surprises along the way.
  • 00:09:49.581 --> 00:09:52.450
  • Timothy: Yeah,there have been.
  • 00:09:52.484 --> 00:09:54.319
  • In fact, I'll share somethingwith you is that when I went to
  • 00:09:54.352 --> 00:09:58.289
  • Egypt the very first time, andI've shared this many times, but
  • 00:09:58.323 --> 00:10:01.226
  • how profound it was when I wentup to the location where the
  • 00:10:01.259 --> 00:10:04.062
  • Israelites were to havelived, when I was there.
  • 00:10:04.095 --> 00:10:07.899
  • And when I asked ProfessorManfred Beitak about was there
  • 00:10:07.932 --> 00:10:11.536
  • evidence, have you seen evidencefor the early Israelites?
  • 00:10:11.569 --> 00:10:14.906
  • And when he said, "So farnot," you know, honestly at that
  • 00:10:14.939 --> 00:10:19.244
  • moment, I had traveled from theother side of the world, it was
  • 00:10:19.277 --> 00:10:23.748
  • very difficult to get up towhere he was,
  • 00:10:23.782 --> 00:10:26.217
  • that struck me so hard.
  • 00:10:26.251 --> 00:10:28.853
  • Just pierced me because I wasunder the understanding that he
  • 00:10:28.887 --> 00:10:32.991
  • had uncovered informationabout the Bible, about the early
  • 00:10:33.024 --> 00:10:35.994
  • Israelites there in Goshenor Avaris in the delta, where
  • 00:10:36.027 --> 00:10:39.564
  • Joseph's familywould've come in.
  • 00:10:39.597 --> 00:10:42.066
  • And when he said that he sofar hadn't found any evidence of
  • 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:44.502
  • that, that was when the seed ofdoubt came into my heart, came
  • 00:10:44.536 --> 00:10:49.808
  • into my mind.
  • 00:10:49.841 --> 00:10:52.076
  • And it wasn't so much that I wasdoubtful at the beginning,
  • 00:10:52.110 --> 00:10:54.979
  • but I was confused.
  • 00:10:55.013 --> 00:10:57.115
  • announcer: Professor ManfredBeitak and his Austrian team
  • 00:10:58.283 --> 00:11:00.084
  • have been digging in Egypt'sdelta for over 30 years
  • 00:11:00.118 --> 00:11:02.520
  • at the site of Avaris.
  • 00:11:02.554 --> 00:11:05.423
  • Avaris lies directly belowthe southern sector
  • 00:11:05.457 --> 00:11:07.992
  • of the city of Ramesses.
  • 00:11:08.026 --> 00:11:10.829
  • Timothy: I asked Manfred totell me about these
  • 00:11:10.862 --> 00:11:13.031
  • exciting new finds.
  • 00:11:13.064 --> 00:11:15.667
  • Manfred Beitak: So, weuncovered the remains of a huge
  • 00:11:15.700 --> 00:11:19.170
  • town of 250 hectares, with apopulation of approximately
  • 00:11:19.204 --> 00:11:25.443
  • 25.000 to 30.000 individuals.
  • 00:11:25.477 --> 00:11:29.080
  • But to connect this with theproto-Israelites
  • 00:11:29.113 --> 00:11:33.251
  • is a very weak affair.
  • 00:11:33.284 --> 00:11:36.788
  • Timothy: And so, what hashappened is that when I came
  • 00:11:36.821 --> 00:11:39.023
  • back from that interview inEgypt, I was right here in this
  • 00:11:39.057 --> 00:11:42.060
  • building, just sitting behindyou in the edit suite, and I was
  • 00:11:42.093 --> 00:11:45.230
  • sitting in there on a Saturdaymorning looking at this footage.
  • 00:11:45.263 --> 00:11:48.266
  • And I literally started to cry.
  • 00:11:48.299 --> 00:11:51.102
  • I mean, I was praying, and Isaid, "God, you have to help me
  • 00:11:51.135 --> 00:11:53.972
  • figure this thing out.
  • 00:11:54.005 --> 00:11:55.373
  • Why can't this man find evidencefor the early Israelites?"
  • 00:11:55.406 --> 00:11:58.343
  • You know, 'cause he'sdigging at that time.
  • 00:11:58.376 --> 00:12:00.378
  • And at that moment,
  • 00:12:00.411 --> 00:12:02.680
  • literally I felt like thetemperature in the room changed.
  • 00:12:02.714 --> 00:12:06.317
  • And there was a cold chill thatcame over me, and this thought
  • 00:12:06.351 --> 00:12:09.587
  • came into my mind, avery strong thought.
  • 00:12:09.621 --> 00:12:12.457
  • Everything that you believeabout the Bible, that your
  • 00:12:12.490 --> 00:12:14.959
  • mother believes, that your
  • 00:12:14.993 --> 00:12:16.594
  • family has taught you aboutthe Bible is a lie.
  • 00:12:16.628 --> 00:12:20.064
  • And this--it was this--I feltthis sense of utter despair,
  • 00:12:20.098 --> 00:12:24.536
  • just a hopelessnessthat came over me.
  • 00:12:24.569 --> 00:12:27.205
  • And instantly, another thoughtcame to my mind, it said,
  • 00:12:27.238 --> 00:12:29.574
  • "Stop editing.
  • 00:12:29.607 --> 00:12:31.009
  • Get up, go to your office."
  • 00:12:31.042 --> 00:12:32.644
  • So, literally we're sitting--Iwalked across from here, you
  • 00:12:32.677 --> 00:12:36.214
  • know, behind you, walked throughthis door over here,
  • 00:12:36.247 --> 00:12:38.850
  • and I went to my office.
  • 00:12:38.883 --> 00:12:41.052
  • And I went--and like the thoughtcontinued, it says, "Go to the
  • 00:12:41.085 --> 00:12:44.889
  • bookcase, read that book."
  • 00:12:44.923 --> 00:12:48.226
  • You know, so I walked into thisoffice here, where my office is,
  • 00:12:48.259 --> 00:12:51.796
  • and I had this book someone hadgiven me called
  • 00:12:51.829 --> 00:12:54.532
  • "Pharaohs and Kings."
  • 00:12:54.566 --> 00:12:56.200
  • And it was Egyptologist DavidRohl, who, by the way,
  • 00:12:56.234 --> 00:12:59.337
  • is an agnostic.
  • 00:12:59.370 --> 00:13:00.972
  • And he had written this book,but he was showing a pattern
  • 00:13:01.005 --> 00:13:03.975
  • of evidence for Joseph and hisfamily and the early Israelites,
  • 00:13:04.008 --> 00:13:07.312
  • the whole story there atManfred Beitak's dig site.
  • 00:13:07.345 --> 00:13:11.282
  • And that began then the turning,we kind of turned a corner
  • 00:13:11.316 --> 00:13:16.220
  • for the filming.
  • 00:13:16.254 --> 00:13:18.122
  • Jim: Well, and then, youknow, you brought him back in
  • 00:13:18.156 --> 00:13:20.158
  • in a later film.
  • 00:13:20.191 --> 00:13:21.526
  • Timothy: Yeah.
  • 00:13:21.559 --> 00:13:23.094
  • Timothy: It's sogood to see you again.
  • 00:13:23.127 --> 00:13:24.829
  • And you probably don't remember,but in 2002, I was sending you
  • 00:13:24.862 --> 00:13:28.766
  • emails, but I think Iwas sending them
  • 00:13:28.800 --> 00:13:30.835
  • to the institute in Austria.
  • 00:13:30.868 --> 00:13:32.670
  • Manfred: But youdidn't get answers.
  • 00:13:32.704 --> 00:13:34.205
  • Timothy: No.
  • 00:13:34.238 --> 00:13:37.141
  • And so, I cameunannounced, I surprised you.
  • 00:13:37.175 --> 00:13:39.177
  • At the time, you werevery gracious to me.
  • 00:13:39.210 --> 00:13:41.613
  • And so we did a five-minuteinterview, and I said, "Is there
  • 00:13:41.646 --> 00:13:45.316
  • any evidence of the Israelites?"
  • 00:13:45.350 --> 00:13:47.552
  • Timothy: Is there anyphysical evidence of a Hebrew
  • 00:13:47.585 --> 00:13:49.721
  • population that you've been--
  • 00:13:49.754 --> 00:13:52.123
  • Manfred: So far, not.
  • 00:13:52.156 --> 00:13:53.658
  • Timothy: So far, not.
  • 00:13:53.691 --> 00:13:57.095
  • Does any of thatcome back to you?
  • 00:13:57.128 --> 00:13:59.897
  • Manfred: It's shroudedby mist, I have to say.
  • 00:13:59.931 --> 00:14:02.500
  • Timothy: Eventually, Icame home
  • 00:14:02.533 --> 00:14:04.969
  • and I had a crisis of faith.
  • 00:14:05.003 --> 00:14:08.172
  • And that experience with youstarted me on a 12-year journey,
  • 00:14:08.206 --> 00:14:13.177
  • and I started looking forwhat would be called
  • 00:14:13.211 --> 00:14:15.013
  • a pattern of evidence.
  • 00:14:15.046 --> 00:14:16.648
  • Here we are again, and I want totalk to you,
  • 00:14:16.681 --> 00:14:19.884
  • ask you a few more questions.
  • 00:14:19.917 --> 00:14:22.553
  • Jim: Manfred Beitak is arenowned archeologist, highly
  • 00:14:23.521 --> 00:14:26.190
  • respected, and he has sincechanged his tune a little bit
  • 00:14:26.224 --> 00:14:31.596
  • because he is now saying, "Ohyeah, there is evidence and
  • 00:14:31.629 --> 00:14:34.666
  • there's--" you know, even thatlake that was found that had--
  • 00:14:34.699 --> 00:14:38.202
  • Timothy: Yes, the lake Gesem.
  • 00:14:38.236 --> 00:14:39.904
  • Jim: The name that had--it
  • 00:14:39.937 --> 00:14:42.073
  • was Goshen in theSeptuagint, right?
  • 00:14:42.106 --> 00:14:44.075
  • Timothy: Right, right.
  • 00:14:44.108 --> 00:14:45.977
  • Timothy: A toponym is atechnical term for the name
  • 00:14:46.010 --> 00:14:47.879
  • of a place.
  • 00:14:47.912 --> 00:14:50.314
  • And the Israelites spoke aSemitic language, Hebrew.
  • 00:14:50.348 --> 00:14:53.351
  • Sarah Groll had identified thename Gesem in ancient Egyptian
  • 00:14:53.384 --> 00:14:57.588
  • documents that she believed wereconnected to this area
  • 00:14:57.622 --> 00:15:01.159
  • and to the Bible.
  • 00:15:01.192 --> 00:15:03.995
  • So, here was another clue.
  • 00:15:04.028 --> 00:15:06.397
  • The name Goshen was called Gesemin the Septuagint, the Greek
  • 00:15:06.431 --> 00:15:10.468
  • version of the Old Testament.
  • 00:15:10.501 --> 00:15:13.171
  • Manfred: Gesem is aSemitic name tied to a big lake.
  • 00:15:13.204 --> 00:15:17.241
  • It can only be this lake.
  • 00:15:17.275 --> 00:15:19.043
  • Timothy: So, this is veryinteresting because what you're
  • 00:15:19.077 --> 00:15:21.079
  • suggesting is that there'sSemitic toponyms in Egypt.
  • 00:15:21.112 --> 00:15:23.748
  • Manfred: Yes.
  • 00:15:23.781 --> 00:15:25.650
  • Timothy: And whywould they be there?
  • 00:15:25.683 --> 00:15:27.285
  • Manfred: Why did Egyptianscribes, for heaven's sake, use
  • 00:15:27.318 --> 00:15:29.587
  • Semitic toponyms for anarea which belongs to Egypt?
  • 00:15:29.620 --> 00:15:33.191
  • Timothy: Yeah.
  • 00:15:33.224 --> 00:15:34.692
  • Manfred: This can only meanthat there were people living
  • 00:15:34.726 --> 00:15:37.328
  • there that the majoritywho spoke Semitic language.
  • 00:15:37.361 --> 00:15:43.134
  • Jim: So many people think tobe a Christian or to be a person
  • 00:15:43.167 --> 00:15:46.037
  • of faith, you just have to closeyour eyes and jump, but I don't
  • 00:15:46.070 --> 00:15:49.107
  • think that's our God.
  • 00:15:49.140 --> 00:15:50.675
  • If he's true, there's--you'regoing to find truth.
  • 00:15:50.708 --> 00:15:52.944
  • Timothy: Mm-hmm, yeah.
  • 00:15:52.977 --> 00:15:55.379
  • And what I can tell you is we'vecreated this device called
  • 00:15:55.413 --> 00:15:57.482
  • the wall of time.
  • 00:15:57.515 --> 00:15:59.117
  • So, it's kind of like a wallthat's weaving its way through
  • 00:15:59.150 --> 00:16:01.652
  • an ancient valley.
  • 00:16:01.686 --> 00:16:03.221
  • Jim: The Great Wall ofEgypt, we'll call it that.
  • 00:16:03.254 --> 00:16:04.789
  • Timothy: That's very good.
  • 00:16:04.822 --> 00:16:06.624
  • And you know, it haspillars every 1.000 years.
  • 00:16:06.657 --> 00:16:08.392
  • And then we figured out, well,there's different time periods.
  • 00:16:08.426 --> 00:16:11.729
  • And those different timeperiods, one could represent
  • 00:16:11.763 --> 00:16:14.165
  • real time, the other oneis the Egyptian history.
  • 00:16:14.198 --> 00:16:16.868
  • Jim: As theyhave purported it.
  • 00:16:16.901 --> 00:16:19.103
  • Timothy: Yeah, becausewhen you talk to scholars, they
  • 00:16:19.137 --> 00:16:21.172
  • sometimes talk in languagethat you can't understand.
  • 00:16:21.205 --> 00:16:24.175
  • They say Iron Age, or the MiddleKingdom, or they say 1500 BC.
  • 00:16:24.208 --> 00:16:31.082
  • So, they're all--they're tryingto tell you where they're at,
  • 00:16:31.115 --> 00:16:34.218
  • but they're interchangingthe different terminologies of
  • 00:16:34.252 --> 00:16:37.421
  • archeology andkingdoms of Egypt.
  • 00:16:37.455 --> 00:16:40.291
  • And I go--
  • 00:16:40.324 --> 00:16:41.726
  • Jim: And thenyou have dynasties.
  • 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:43.227
  • Timothy: Yeah,right, dynasties.
  • 00:16:43.261 --> 00:16:44.562
  • Jim: Really complicated.
  • 00:16:44.595 --> 00:16:45.930
  • Timothy: So, what you need todo is I had to find a way, if I
  • 00:16:45.963 --> 00:16:47.665
  • can see it visually, if Icould put it on the wall,
  • 00:16:47.698 --> 00:16:50.601
  • I can remember.
  • 00:16:50.635 --> 00:16:52.503
  • If you read the biblicalaccount, the consequences of
  • 00:16:52.537 --> 00:16:56.274
  • dismissing the Bible are tragic.
  • 00:16:56.307 --> 00:17:00.278
  • So, if you're going to make adecision about dismissing the
  • 00:17:00.311 --> 00:17:03.514
  • Bible, then you're going to bedealing with a tragic potential
  • 00:17:03.548 --> 00:17:08.519
  • for your soul and foryour--for your future.
  • 00:17:08.553 --> 00:17:11.589
  • I painted cars from the time Iwas 18 years old till the time I
  • 00:17:11.622 --> 00:17:14.826
  • was 30 years old,wanting to be a filmmaker.
  • 00:17:14.859 --> 00:17:18.896
  • Jim: Was that yourMoses in the wilderness?
  • 00:17:18.930 --> 00:17:21.232
  • Timothy: It was, yeah.
  • 00:17:21.265 --> 00:17:22.633
  • The way it has worked inthe Bible many times is that
  • 00:17:22.667 --> 00:17:25.303
  • sometimes people don't see whattheir calling is until they've
  • 00:17:25.336 --> 00:17:28.306
  • matured for quite a long ways.
  • 00:17:28.339 --> 00:17:30.842
  • Our faith I think is alsoabout understanding
  • 00:17:30.875 --> 00:17:35.680
  • and having a clarity.
  • 00:17:35.713 --> 00:17:38.282
  • If there--if the Bible is true,as we're--as I believe it is,
  • 00:17:38.316 --> 00:17:44.455
  • then we should be able to seeevidences for the historical
  • 00:17:44.488 --> 00:17:47.592
  • events that happens.
  • 00:17:47.625 --> 00:17:49.594
  • And if people are denyingthat evidence, then we should
  • 00:17:49.627 --> 00:17:51.596
  • reveal--we should basicallycommunicate that
  • 00:17:51.629 --> 00:17:53.497
  • they're denying this evidence.
  • 00:17:53.531 --> 00:17:54.932
  • So, then it becomes more of anact of the will, that people are
  • 00:17:54.966 --> 00:17:58.002
  • willing to admit that the Bibleis historically showing,
  • 00:17:58.035 --> 00:18:03.140
  • you know, patterns.
  • 00:18:03.174 --> 00:18:04.876
  • And there's otherthings that I've found.
  • 00:18:04.909 --> 00:18:06.544
  • We've got thousands of hours offootage, and I've got--I've got
  • 00:18:06.577 --> 00:18:09.347
  • archeologists who said, "We seeevidence for the Bible all the
  • 00:18:09.380 --> 00:18:11.983
  • time, but we'reafraid to talk about it."
  • 00:18:12.016 --> 00:18:15.353
  • People say, "Oh, you can't saythat, or you can't say this.
  • 00:18:15.386 --> 00:18:17.655
  • You know, but yeah, that matchesthe Bible, that matches the
  • 00:18:17.688 --> 00:18:19.757
  • Bible, that matches the Bible."
  • 00:18:19.790 --> 00:18:21.425
  • And you know, those films aregoing to be coming out, you
  • 00:18:21.459 --> 00:18:26.831
  • know, more of them.
  • 00:18:26.864 --> 00:18:28.633
  • I was called to make thesefilms, I didn't know what that
  • 00:18:28.666 --> 00:18:30.268
  • would look like.
  • 00:18:30.301 --> 00:18:31.602
  • And that's my encouragement toyou and to--you know, to your
  • 00:18:31.636 --> 00:18:34.472
  • film crew too.
  • 00:18:34.505 --> 00:18:35.940
  • You know, if there's thoseprojects that you think you're
  • 00:18:35.973 --> 00:18:37.708
  • supposed to go after, I'dgo after them, you know?
  • 00:18:37.742 --> 00:18:40.678
  • And you'd be surprised.
  • 00:18:40.711 --> 00:18:42.713
  • What I learned is that if it'sof the Lord, other people will
  • 00:18:42.747 --> 00:18:46.150
  • join you because they sense what
  • 00:18:46.183 --> 00:18:48.386
  • it is and they want tobe a part of it.
  • 00:18:48.419 --> 00:18:51.522
  • Jim: Thank you so much, Tim,for this interview and also for
  • 00:18:51.555 --> 00:18:55.526
  • just your heart for theLord and all your work.
  • 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:58.496
  • And I encourage you to keep onstaying faithful to the Lord's
  • 00:18:58.529 --> 00:19:02.566
  • call on your life.
  • 00:19:02.600 --> 00:19:03.901
  • Timothy: Thank you, Jim.
  • 00:19:03.935 --> 00:19:06.037
  • Jim: Well, I hope you'velearned a little bit today on
  • 00:19:10.308 --> 00:19:12.310
  • "In Grace" about thetruth of the Bible.
  • 00:19:12.343 --> 00:19:14.779
  • It's awesome that as we look atthe evidence and actually really
  • 00:19:14.812 --> 00:19:18.482
  • go dig down and talk toarcheologists and see that there
  • 00:19:18.516 --> 00:19:22.553
  • really is a pattern of evidencethat the Bible is true, but that
  • 00:19:22.586 --> 00:19:26.424
  • really poses a question,it brings us to a decision.
  • 00:19:26.457 --> 00:19:30.227
  • If the Bible is true and God isreal and he's a God of miracles,
  • 00:19:30.261 --> 00:19:33.831
  • what does that mean for me?
  • 00:19:33.864 --> 00:19:35.399
  • Well, the Bible, first of all,gives us really bad news in that
  • 00:19:35.433 --> 00:19:38.636
  • we're all sinners.
  • 00:19:38.669 --> 00:19:40.705
  • Out here fishing in Minnesota,we use lures like this,
  • 00:19:40.738 --> 00:19:43.741
  • this is a spinner bait.
  • 00:19:43.774 --> 00:19:45.476
  • This is to fool the fish.
  • 00:19:45.509 --> 00:19:47.778
  • They think this is great, andthey grab it for a nice meal,
  • 00:19:47.812 --> 00:19:51.315
  • and they end up being the meal.
  • 00:19:51.349 --> 00:19:53.451
  • Well, this is greatillustration of sin.
  • 00:19:53.484 --> 00:19:55.586
  • Satan is using things like thisthat look so flashy and looks so
  • 00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.456
  • good, but he's trying to hookyou, he's trying to kill you.
  • 00:19:58.489 --> 00:20:01.826
  • Jesus is the opposite.
  • 00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:03.561
  • He actually said, "I wantyou to be fishers of men."
  • 00:20:03.594 --> 00:20:06.630
  • Think about that.
  • 00:20:06.664 --> 00:20:08.199
  • Fisher of men is someone thathelps someone come
  • 00:20:08.232 --> 00:20:11.235
  • from death to life.
  • 00:20:11.268 --> 00:20:13.304
  • And that's what Jesus did, hecame and he died for our sins.
  • 00:20:13.337 --> 00:20:16.874
  • Let this represent sin.
  • 00:20:16.907 --> 00:20:18.943
  • Let this represent all ofus, we all have sinned.
  • 00:20:18.976 --> 00:20:22.446
  • We've all fallen shortof the glory of God.
  • 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:25.149
  • But Jesus had no sin, but hecame, he loves you so much, he
  • 00:20:25.182 --> 00:20:28.886
  • came to die for your sins.
  • 00:20:28.919 --> 00:20:31.222
  • He rose again the thirdday to pay for our sins.
  • 00:20:31.255 --> 00:20:34.759
  • And anyone who by faithreceives him has eternal life.
  • 00:20:34.792 --> 00:20:39.130
  • My friends, there's nothinggreater than the good news of
  • 00:20:39.163 --> 00:20:42.500
  • the gospel of Jesus Christ.
  • 00:20:42.533 --> 00:20:44.502
  • You can't saveyourself, Jesus did it all.
  • 00:20:44.535 --> 00:20:47.638
  • Put your faith in him and youwill have everlasting life.
  • 00:20:47.671 --> 00:20:52.109
  • And that's the greatestmiracle in the entire world.
  • 00:20:52.143 --> 00:20:55.713
  • Jim: Can you believe thatmost scholar don't believe the
  • 00:20:58.783 --> 00:21:01.685
  • Exodus even happened?
  • 00:21:01.719 --> 00:21:03.487
  • You need to watch "Patterns ofEvidence: The Exodus" to find
  • 00:21:03.521 --> 00:21:07.525
  • out how wrong they are.
  • 00:21:07.558 --> 00:21:10.127
  • announcer: Millions of peoplewandering in the wilderness for
  • 00:21:10.161 --> 00:21:12.096
  • 40 years?
  • 00:21:12.129 --> 00:21:13.664
  • The giant walls ofJericho fell down?
  • 00:21:13.697 --> 00:21:16.767
  • An entire army buried atthe bottom of the Red Sea?
  • 00:21:16.801 --> 00:21:20.404
  • Bring these biblical accountsto life as filmmaker
  • 00:21:20.438 --> 00:21:23.808
  • Timothy Mahoney presentsconvincing new evidence that
  • 00:21:23.841 --> 00:21:26.610
  • clearly matches the biblicalaccount of "The Exodus."
  • 00:21:26.644 --> 00:21:29.880
  • For a gift of $16.95 or more,you will receive a DVD copy
  • 00:21:29.914 --> 00:21:34.318
  • of the criticallyacclaimed film
  • 00:21:34.351 --> 00:21:36.287
  • "Patterns of Evidence:The Exodus."
  • 00:21:36.320 --> 00:21:39.290
  • Jim: I'd encourage you toorder
  • 00:21:39.323 --> 00:21:40.991
  • "Patterns of Evidence:The Exodus" today.
  • 00:21:41.025 --> 00:21:44.061
  • And when you order from "InGrace," you're also supporting
  • 00:21:44.095 --> 00:21:47.264
  • us as we bring you great,adventurous,
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  • and Bible-affirming TV shows.
  • 00:21:50.367 --> 00:21:53.137
  • announcer: Call now,800-78-GRACE, or visit
  • 00:21:53.170 --> 00:21:56.073
  • ingrace.tv to get your copy.
  • 00:21:56.107 --> 00:21:57.617
  • ingrace.tv to get your copy.
  • 00:21:57.617 --> 00:21:57.714
  • Join us next week as Jim ScudderJr. and Dr. Carl Baugh travel to
  • 00:21:58.682 --> 00:22:02.419
  • Kansas and gofishing for fossils.
  • 00:22:02.452 --> 00:22:05.856
  • Carl Baugh: We can'tignore the evidence
  • 00:22:05.889 --> 00:22:07.624
  • for the worldwide flood.
  • 00:22:07.657 --> 00:22:09.326
  • In these layers, theyfind a few dinosaurs.
  • 00:22:09.359 --> 00:22:12.796
  • The flood givesevidence of judgment.
  • 00:22:12.829 --> 00:22:16.032
  • And these creatures didn'tdeserve it, but we brought this
  • 00:22:16.066 --> 00:22:19.169
  • on them, and we need some grace.
  • 00:22:19.202 --> 00:22:22.239
  • Jim: But Noah foundgrace in the eyes of the Lord.
  • 00:22:22.272 --> 00:22:24.574
  • Carl: Noah found gracein the eyes of the Lord.
  • 00:22:24.608 --> 00:22:27.777
  • ♪♪♪
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  • Don't miss one of them.
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