The Copper Scroll - Priceless Temple Treasure Found? Part 1 | TBN

The Copper Scroll - Priceless Temple Treasure Found? Part 1

Watch The Copper Scroll - Priceless Temple Treasure Found? Part 1
September 17, 2019
27:21

Jim Scudder, Jr.: InGrace

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The Copper Scroll - Priceless Temple Treasure Found? Part 1

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  • Jim: Ever since I was a boy, I've been fascinated
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  • with God's creation.
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  • I'm traveling the planet to tell his story about his world.
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  • I'm Jim Scudder, Jr.
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  • Come with me on another exciting adventure "InGrace."
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  • Jim: Our adventure began when I got a Facebook message from
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  • the author of a new book called "The Copper Scroll Project."
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  • I'd heard of the story.
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  • A retired arson investigator from Oklahoma
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  • named Jim Barfield believes he's located a massive
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  • treasure buried in Qumran.
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  • Well, at first I dismissed the message since it all seemed so
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  • far-fetched, but just to be sure, I asked an archaeologist
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  • friend about this, and he said that he wasn't sure about the
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  • treasure, but he did know that Shelley Neese was the real deal,
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  • so I replied to her.
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  • I asked her for her book.
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  • A few days later, it arrived, and she had signed the book with
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  • Hosea 2:15.
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  • As I read the book and studied the Scriptures, this far-fetched
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  • story started to get closer and closer.
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  • My film crew and I decided to fly from Chicago
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  • to Washington, D.C., to talk to Shelley at the impressive Museum
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  • of the Bible.
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  • The museum just so happened to have a replica
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  • of the Copper Scroll.
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  • The Copper Scroll?
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  • Shelley Neese: This is it. Well, this is the replica.
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  • Jim: Well, this is--you know.
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  • Shelley: This is as good as you're gonna get
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  • if you're not in Jordan.
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  • Jim: This is cool because, obviously, it's a replica,
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  • but this is a treasure map.
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  • Shelley: Exactly.
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  • So the way it looks right now, the actual Copper Scroll
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  • is cut into 23 strips.
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  • Now, it did what copper does.
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  • It oxidized, so you can see that it's the color of the Statute
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  • of Liberty, really.
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  • It doesn't rust the same way, other metals.
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  • It oxidizes, and so that's a protective layer for it.
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  • Jim: What could be there?
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  • According to the Copper Scroll, what is hidden?
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  • Shelley: All Dead Sea Scrolls scholars would agree that the
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  • amount of treasure listed in the Copper Scroll is so copious,
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  • it's so much that there's nowhere else in Israel or
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  • really in antiquity that would have had access to that kind
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  • of wealth other than the Jewish Temple.
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  • Jim: Temple treasury?
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  • Shelley: Exactly.
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  • In the First Temple period, we know from the Bible that silver
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  • was as common as stones.
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  • We know that, during the Second Temple period, in Herod's
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  • Temple, Josephus writes that even just the way the Romans
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  • raided that treasury that so much gold flooded the market
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  • that it affected the global value for gold.
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  • And the Temple treasury had been raided in previous times.
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  • It was clearly a targeted point because all Jews were required
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  • to tithe to the Temple.
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  • I mean, just like as Christians, we're supposed to tithe.
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  • I mean, this was a practice that was--but they were all over
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  • the diaspora, sending in their tithes to the Temple.
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  • Those tithes were only allowed to be used for Temple services,
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  • so they were sanctified, and so sometimes that wealth would
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  • accrue, and the Jews knew that the Babylonians were coming.
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  • They knew that the Romans were coming.
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  • I mean, this didn't catch them totally off guard, so there was
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  • time in both of those scenarios to be able
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  • to secure the treasury.
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  • The idea that a group of Essenes in the Second Temple period,
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  • that a group of followers of Jeremiah in the First Temple
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  • period, this idea that someone with priestly access could have
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  • secreted away Temple treasures
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  • is not a leap of logic.
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  • We know that there's a tunneling system under Jerusalem.
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  • There's ways to get these things out of the Old City
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  • and hide them.
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  • I mean, the Dead Sea Scrolls might be evidence
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  • of that themselves.
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  • Jim: There's an interesting story behind the finding
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  • of these scrolls, and I think the timing--
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  • again, we're going back to timing.
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  • Shelley: Absolutely.
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  • Jim: I don't think that was an accident.
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  • Shelley: Right, absolutely.
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  • No, these were found on the eve of the United Nations voting,
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  • the General Assembly voting to recognize the Partition Plan
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  • and to recognize Israel, and so it was a celebration.
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  • When the first Hebrew scholar, Eleazar Sukenik, was looking at
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  • the very first Dead Sea Scroll, he was unfurling it on, you
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  • know, his kitchen table, and he hears celebrations going on
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  • outside of his window, and it was Israelis celebrating this
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  • momentous occasion, and so he writes in his diary that night,
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  • which still just gives me chill bumps to read, but "My eyes are
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  • looking at something that no Jewish eyes have seen
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  • for 2.000 years."
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  • Jim: God had predicted that he would preserve two things:
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  • one, his people, his earthly people, the Jewish people.
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  • He also predicted that he would preserve his Word,
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  • so this bridged what?
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  • A thousand years or so?
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  • Shelley: Right.
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  • Jim: Between our oldest previous Hebrew manuscripts
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  • and the Dead Sea Scrolls.
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  • Shelley: Right, which you don't have many times in history
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  • that you get to move the needle backwards that much by
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  • a thousand years, these--yeah, than more than the previously
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  • known Hebrew manuscripts predate.
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  • And so, really, that's, to me, what's so exciting
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  • about archaeology, as well, is that it's a science
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  • of unpredictability, so that was where things were going:
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  • Biblical criticism was making gains, analyzing the different
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  • authorship of the Bible, analyzing what had been changed,
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  • what had been inserted later, and so by finding the Dead Sea
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  • Scrolls, it just flipped it all on its head.
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  • It silenced many scholars, you know, the work that they had
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  • been doing for decades to minimize the Bible
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  • and its authenticity.
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  • This silenced within two years.
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  • Jim: The Copper Scroll begins with what people used to think
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  • was the first location, but Jim said, "No, this is kind of the
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  • preamble of all the locations, which is the Valley of Achor."
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  • Shelley: Under the ruins in the Valley of Achor.
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  • That's how it starts, and then so it'll proceed into
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  • the first location, but you're exactly right.
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  • Other Copper Scrolls scholars have said, "Well, this is the
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  • beginning of the first location in the 60 locations that'll
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  • follow," and exactly Jim saw that just immediately as another
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  • ruins in the Valley of Achor 'cause there are other ruins in
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  • the Valley of Achor, and that was what Jim was open to.
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  • He did think it was the preamble.
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  • Jim: Archaeologically, a significance to a people,
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  • to a land, you know, to reconnect them
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  • to their history to God.
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  • Shelley: Right, and when you look at modern Israel's history,
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  • so the Dead Sea Scrolls are found on the eve of modern
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  • Israel's rebirth, and I think for anyone watching God's hand
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  • in Israel right now, we all see that God's about
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  • to do something new.
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  • The American Embassy is moving to Jerusalem.
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  • Other countries, especially with Christian leaders, may be
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  • following suit, and so we feel like we may be on the verge
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  • of Israel's next chapter.
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  • So, if in 1948 its birthday gift is to be able to be reunited
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  • with its ancient scrolls, with the Hebrew scrolls, which is the
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  • gift that the Jewish people have given to the world, it's the
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  • thing that they're the most known for, so how much more so,
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  • in my imagination, at least in terms of how God might be
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  • working, is this moment in history for her to be reunited
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  • with the things that once belonged to the Jewish Temple.
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  • Jim: This is different, still found in the Qumran caves, the
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  • third cave, the 15th document that was found in kind of the
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  • very last day, I understand, by the French excavation?
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  • Shelley: Very last day of the very last hours.
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  • They were wrapping up the day.
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  • Cave 3 had once had 40 scrolls in it.
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  • By the time, 2.000 years later, this archaeological team is
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  • excavating, there's about 15 scrolls left and all in a pretty
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  • dilapidated state, and so it was a disappointing excavation
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  • in that way.
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  • They can see that it was once a robust Dead Sea Scroll library,
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  • but it was the roof of the cave that had collapsed in antiquity,
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  • and so, really, a lot of scroll fragments were in rats' nests
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  • or were littered outside the cave's entrance,
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  • and so they were wrapping up the excavation.
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  • They see what looks like a small side chamber, but even in front
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  • of that side chamber was something that they had to chip
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  • through, a barrier that they had to chip through.
  • 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:13.060
  • So the way I think of it in my most active imagination is this
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  • was a false wall hiding, you know, this secret chamber in
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  • this cave complex and resting on a ledge, which looks like
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  • a man-made ledge, were the Copper Scrolls.
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  • Jim: So this was found almost miraculously, and as a pastor,
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  • I'm always looking for that in the story too--
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  • is God is alive, God is at work, he has a plan.
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  • Sometimes the plan is timing.
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  • So this was found in '52.
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  • It was unrolled, cut open some years later.
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  • One of the team that was studying all of the Dead Sea
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  • Scrolls was very interested in this, kind of had that
  • 00:08:48.180 --> 00:08:50.280
  • treasure-hunter mentality, John Allegro, and so he was able
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  • to get someone to open this, Henry Wright Baker,
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  • and he had to kind of jury-rig a little bit
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  • of a device to cut it.
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  • Shelley: Right, he borrowed materials from the School of
  • 00:09:05.050 --> 00:09:07.200
  • Dentistry, the College of Engineering,
  • 00:09:07.210 --> 00:09:10.060
  • retired World War II materials, and so, yes,
  • 00:09:10.070 --> 00:09:13.220
  • he made a contraption that still kind of
  • 00:09:13.230 --> 00:09:16.110
  • makes me feel unsettled to look at pictures of it now,
  • 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.100
  • and he talks about it in his diary that it would jump on the
  • 00:09:19.110 --> 00:09:22.040
  • spindle every time it would make a full rotation, but it was
  • 00:09:22.050 --> 00:09:26.190
  • genius what he did in terms of no one else could figure out
  • 00:09:26.200 --> 00:09:30.000
  • how to actually unroll the scroll.
  • 00:09:30.010 --> 00:09:32.230
  • It was--they talked to people at Johns Hopkins, they talked
  • 00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:34.280
  • to other metallurgists and specialists, and really no one
  • 00:09:34.290 --> 00:09:38.000
  • could figure out, without great risk to the actual scroll,
  • 00:09:38.010 --> 00:09:41.200
  • how to unroll it.
  • 00:09:41.210 --> 00:09:43.110
  • That would've been the first choice.
  • 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:44.190
  • I think we could actually do that today, but at that point in
  • 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:47.160
  • time, it was decided to cut it into strips, which still made it
  • 00:09:47.170 --> 00:09:51.160
  • so that we could read it.
  • 00:09:51.170 --> 00:09:53.040
  • It really didn't lose any of the content in that process.
  • 00:09:53.050 --> 00:09:55.060
  • Jim: But even then, I don't think he really believed 100%
  • 00:09:55.070 --> 00:09:58.150
  • that this was gonna work.
  • 00:09:58.160 --> 00:09:59.280
  • Shelley: Right.
  • 00:09:59.290 --> 00:10:01.100
  • Jim: Wasn't it supposed to be the next day
  • 00:10:01.110 --> 00:10:02.200
  • that they would do it?
  • 00:10:02.210 --> 00:10:03.260
  • Shelley: Yeah, so Henry Wright Baker is a man of faith,
  • 00:10:03.270 --> 00:10:05.160
  • which I feel, like, it's very critical if you're gonna take on
  • 00:10:05.170 --> 00:10:07.100
  • something like this, and so, yes, John Allegro and him had
  • 00:10:07.110 --> 00:10:11.220
  • an idea to meet the next day to make the first cut,
  • 00:10:11.230 --> 00:10:15.010
  • 'cause really it was with the first cut that you would know
  • 00:10:15.020 --> 00:10:17.100
  • whether or not you would destroy it
  • 00:10:17.110 --> 00:10:19.150
  • or be able to slice it into strips,
  • 00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:21.140
  • and so they had agreed to meet the next day, and Henry Wright
  • 00:10:21.150 --> 00:10:24.240
  • Baker made the first cut that night, and he wrote
  • 00:10:24.250 --> 00:10:26.250
  • in his diary that exact thing.
  • 00:10:26.260 --> 00:10:28.140
  • He wrote, you know, that, if he had shattered this
  • 00:10:28.150 --> 00:10:30.110
  • 2.000-year-old manuscript, he wanted to be alone
  • 00:10:30.120 --> 00:10:32.100
  • in his misery.
  • 00:10:32.110 --> 00:10:34.030
  • So when John Allegro showed up the next day--and, really,
  • 00:10:34.040 --> 00:10:36.200
  • the Copper Scroll was under his custodianship.
  • 00:10:36.210 --> 00:10:40.030
  • He was the one that championed it.
  • 00:10:40.040 --> 00:10:41.260
  • He was the one that asked the Jordanian Department of
  • 00:10:41.270 --> 00:10:43.270
  • Antiquities to be able to bring it to London to be able to see
  • 00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:46.190
  • if anyone could cut it, so had it shattered, it would've been
  • 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:49.280
  • on him as much as the professor, but it worked, although I will
  • 00:10:49.290 --> 00:10:54.250
  • say that when the news first broke about the Copper Scroll,
  • 00:10:54.260 --> 00:10:58.160
  • I mean, it was kind of your first piece of "fake news"
  • 00:10:58.170 --> 00:11:01.150
  • in a way.
  • 00:11:01.160 --> 00:11:02.290
  • "The New York Times" advertised it as saying, "This looks like
  • 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:05.240
  • something written in the light of the moon in blood on Treasure
  • 00:11:05.250 --> 00:11:09.040
  • Island," and so, by belittling it that way from the very
  • 00:11:09.050 --> 00:11:12.090
  • beginning made it seem like an inauthentic document, so there
  • 00:11:12.100 --> 00:11:15.120
  • wasn't this rush of excitement right in the beginning like you
  • 00:11:15.130 --> 00:11:18.050
  • would expect, at least not from the public and not till it was
  • 00:11:18.060 --> 00:11:20.290
  • translated, which would take years for it to be translated
  • 00:11:21.000 --> 00:11:24.240
  • and published for the public, so, in the beginning,
  • 00:11:24.250 --> 00:11:26.230
  • there wasn't this huge outcry of excitement
  • 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:29.020
  • like you would expect.
  • 00:11:29.030 --> 00:11:30.230
  • Jim: And that's kind of part of the curiosity of this whole
  • 00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:32.250
  • story is "Why has it taken so long to really get
  • 00:11:32.260 --> 00:11:36.270
  • the ball rolling?"
  • 00:11:36.280 --> 00:11:38.110
  • And even now, even though Jim Barfield believes that he has
  • 00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:41.200
  • located the exact locations and has scans to back that up,
  • 00:11:41.210 --> 00:11:46.080
  • there's still this hesitation, and maybe it's because this was
  • 00:11:46.090 --> 00:11:49.190
  • looked at kind of as a dream and "It's not really true,"
  • 00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:52.260
  • from the beginning, and it's just taken a long time?
  • 00:11:52.270 --> 00:11:55.180
  • Shelley: Right, in its own way, the Copper Scroll has
  • 00:11:55.190 --> 00:11:58.110
  • almost--archaeologists almost don't touch it because of the
  • 00:11:58.120 --> 00:12:02.130
  • stigma attached to it because you could be a "Copper Scroll
  • 00:12:02.140 --> 00:12:05.190
  • treasure hunter," and not an archaeologist.
  • 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.240
  • Jim: And that's what the one word that even the
  • 00:12:07.250 --> 00:12:09.280
  • archaeologists that I know, they always will say,
  • 00:12:09.290 --> 00:12:12.050
  • "I'm not a treasure hunter."
  • 00:12:12.060 --> 00:12:13.250
  • Well, I think archaeology is treasure hunting.
  • 00:12:13.260 --> 00:12:16.030
  • I mean, we're looking for treasures, maybe not gold and
  • 00:12:16.040 --> 00:12:18.060
  • silver, but we're looking for, you know, inscriptions
  • 00:12:18.070 --> 00:12:20.160
  • that can connect to history or authenticate Scripture
  • 00:12:20.170 --> 00:12:23.260
  • or whatever.
  • 00:12:23.270 --> 00:12:25.140
  • I think it's all treasure.
  • 00:12:25.150 --> 00:12:26.260
  • Shelley: And the prayer that's always in my head, even
  • 00:12:26.270 --> 00:12:28.160
  • just thinking about the Copper Scroll and the potential for it,
  • 00:12:28.170 --> 00:12:30.240
  • is always just for God to shake the faith of unbelievers.
  • 00:12:30.250 --> 00:12:33.220
  • You know, for Jews, for Christians, for something this
  • 00:12:33.230 --> 00:12:36.280
  • momentous and this huge, if the Dead Sea Scrolls didn't do it,
  • 00:12:36.290 --> 00:12:40.160
  • maybe this will, and, you know, and a lot of that happens with
  • 00:12:40.170 --> 00:12:43.070
  • in terms of we don't see many pro-Israel Christians in the
  • 00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:45.270
  • next generation and that Zionism is starting to fade, whereas
  • 00:12:45.280 --> 00:12:49.290
  • people that were alive during 1967 or saw this beautiful
  • 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.170
  • nation built on the ashes of the Holocaust, you know, that seemed
  • 00:12:54.180 --> 00:12:58.010
  • clear that that was God's hand, but if you're not a historical
  • 00:12:58.020 --> 00:13:00.240
  • witness to that, you have a little bit more distance,
  • 00:13:00.250 --> 00:13:03.160
  • so I feel like it's time for something new.
  • 00:13:03.170 --> 00:13:05.290
  • I feel like it's time for this divine interjection, really, and
  • 00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:09.280
  • we never say, Jim Barfield never says, "The book never claims
  • 00:13:09.290 --> 00:13:12.230
  • that these things will be found," that God told him
  • 00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.120
  • this was there.
  • 00:13:15.130 --> 00:13:17.100
  • I'm always very hesitant of things like that, but it's
  • 00:13:17.110 --> 00:13:19.260
  • always just the hope and the potential that it could be and
  • 00:13:19.270 --> 00:13:23.000
  • for the Bible to be proven true, for the historicity of the Bible
  • 00:13:23.010 --> 00:13:26.170
  • to be laid out for all the world to see, I mean,
  • 00:13:26.180 --> 00:13:28.280
  • that's the thing that excites me the most.
  • 00:13:28.290 --> 00:13:32.040
  • 00:13:32.050 --> 00:13:35.100
  • Jim: I believe you should get "The Copper Scroll" DVD.
  • 00:13:35.110 --> 00:13:39.110
  • This could be the greatest discovery of all time.
  • 00:13:39.120 --> 00:13:42.160
  • Learn more about "The Copper Scroll,"
  • 00:13:42.170 --> 00:13:44.240
  • and you'll also be blessed to learn more about Israel,
  • 00:13:44.250 --> 00:13:47.260
  • about God's promises to Israel,
  • 00:13:47.270 --> 00:13:50.050
  • and about the incredible land of Israel.
  • 00:13:50.060 --> 00:13:52.230
  • Another item that you really should get is this book by
  • 00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.160
  • Shelley Neese, "The Copper Scroll Project."
  • 00:13:55.170 --> 00:13:58.140
  • It will tell you the whole story that we couldn't even possibly
  • 00:13:58.150 --> 00:14:01.210
  • fit into the DVD.
  • 00:14:01.220 --> 00:14:03.190
  • "The Copper Scroll Project," a great book, you can get it
  • 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:06.100
  • from us here at InGrace.
  • 00:14:06.110 --> 00:14:08.140
  • announcer: Discover the location of priceless Temple
  • 00:14:08.150 --> 00:14:10.250
  • treasure with InGrace's series, "The Copper Scroll."
  • 00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:14.280
  • This three-part, full-length DVD series is available today
  • 00:14:14.290 --> 00:14:18.090
  • for your gift of any amount to InGrace.
  • 00:14:18.100 --> 00:14:21.040
  • When you give a gift of $35 or more, we will also include
  • 00:14:21.050 --> 00:14:24.030
  • the book "The Copper Scroll Project,"
  • 00:14:24.040 --> 00:14:26.140
  • from author Shelley Neese.
  • 00:14:26.150 --> 00:14:28.110
  • Call 800-78-GRACE, or visit ingrace.tv to order today.
  • 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:33.010
  • Don't miss this exciting opportunity to get your copy.
  • 00:14:33.020 --> 00:14:36.290
  • 00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:41.280
  • Jim: This is a difficult document to produce,
  • 00:14:41.290 --> 00:14:44.250
  • 'cause you have to produce it backwards.
  • 00:14:44.260 --> 00:14:46.270
  • Shelley: And it just oozes authenticity
  • 00:14:46.280 --> 00:14:48.200
  • because of what you just said.
  • 00:14:48.210 --> 00:14:50.100
  • There's 30 mistakes in the Copper Scroll, you know,
  • 00:14:50.110 --> 00:14:53.050
  • scribal mistakes.
  • 00:14:53.060 --> 00:14:54.280
  • Their words get squished together.
  • 00:14:54.290 --> 00:14:56.180
  • The writer seems rushed at some point.
  • 00:14:56.190 --> 00:14:58.290
  • There are spelling mistakes.
  • 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:00.240
  • To me, that just confirms its authenticity,
  • 00:15:00.250 --> 00:15:02.290
  • and not just to me.
  • 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.260
  • To most Dead Sea Scrolls scholars, this is the one scroll
  • 00:15:04.270 --> 00:15:07.150
  • that you see less debate on than the other ones.
  • 00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:10.060
  • It's the most mysterious, but in terms of what the Copper Scroll
  • 00:15:10.070 --> 00:15:14.150
  • is, all Dead Sea Scrolls scholars, at this point, believe
  • 00:15:14.160 --> 00:15:18.140
  • that this was a authentic document that was connected
  • 00:15:18.150 --> 00:15:20.220
  • to real treasure at some point, otherwise, the Copper Scroll
  • 00:15:20.230 --> 00:15:23.180
  • has no purpose.
  • 00:15:23.190 --> 00:15:25.060
  • It has no reason for using an expensive material,
  • 00:15:25.070 --> 00:15:28.280
  • doing it the way that you would have to etch it in,
  • 00:15:28.290 --> 00:15:31.060
  • which is a very laborious practice.
  • 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:33.160
  • It has no narrative.
  • 00:15:33.170 --> 00:15:35.010
  • It has no literary value.
  • 00:15:35.020 --> 00:15:36.140
  • There's no hero written into the Copper Scroll, so even if it
  • 00:15:36.150 --> 00:15:39.060
  • was, you know, a prop for folklore, which some Copper
  • 00:15:39.070 --> 00:15:42.130
  • Scroll critics, in the very beginning, thought it might be,
  • 00:15:42.140 --> 00:15:45.230
  • it doesn't make sense because it's not celebrating anyone.
  • 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.120
  • It's not even looking back--
  • 00:15:48.130 --> 00:15:49.260
  • Jim: There's no author name on it.
  • 00:15:49.270 --> 00:15:51.050
  • Shelley: The Copper Scroll always follows a certain format.
  • 00:15:51.060 --> 00:15:52.270
  • It'll tell you where to look, the general location, and then a
  • 00:15:52.280 --> 00:15:56.200
  • specific location, and then how deep to dig, and what you'll
  • 00:15:56.210 --> 00:16:00.050
  • find, and so it's that formula, over and over again, for almost
  • 00:16:00.060 --> 00:16:04.210
  • 60 locations, and so it's not an exciting read in that way.
  • 00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:08.270
  • I mean, most scroll scholars would tell you
  • 00:16:08.280 --> 00:16:10.260
  • the Copper Scroll, by itself, is very boring.
  • 00:16:10.270 --> 00:16:13.040
  • It's like reading an old grocery list or an old inventory.
  • 00:16:13.050 --> 00:16:15.210
  • It's the potential what the Copper Scroll points to that's
  • 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:18.110
  • amazing, and if you'll just mathematically add everything up
  • 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:23.040
  • while you're going through the scroll, I mean, we're talking
  • 00:16:23.050 --> 00:16:25.060
  • about tons of gold, silver, and bronze, tons of precious metals
  • 00:16:25.070 --> 00:16:30.110
  • that this is pointing to, so it's the grand sum,
  • 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.140
  • it's the potential for the holy items that it's pointing to.
  • 00:16:33.150 --> 00:16:36.150
  • That's what makes the Copper Scroll so thrilling.
  • 00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:39.090
  • One theory that's my favorite is that it was written by an
  • 00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:42.140
  • illiterate coppersmith, so just this idea that whoever would've
  • 00:16:42.150 --> 00:16:47.190
  • been able to touch these Temple items would've had to have been
  • 00:16:47.200 --> 00:16:50.090
  • priests, would've had to have been connected to the Temple.
  • 00:16:50.100 --> 00:16:53.010
  • Maybe they weren't necessarily great with inscribing copper, so
  • 00:16:53.020 --> 00:16:56.150
  • they hire a coppersmith to be able to write the Copper Scroll,
  • 00:16:56.160 --> 00:16:59.280
  • but he's illiterate, so he makes 30 mistakes in that process,
  • 00:16:59.290 --> 00:17:03.110
  • but what that ensures is that he won't be able to go back
  • 00:17:03.120 --> 00:17:06.070
  • in the future and dig up the treasure that he documented.
  • 00:17:06.080 --> 00:17:09.110
  • Jim: That sounds very logical to me.
  • 00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:10.230
  • Shelley: Right?
  • 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.020
  • Jim: It really does.
  • 00:17:12.030 --> 00:17:13.110
  • Shelley: Or it's just, if you're not a scribe, if you're
  • 00:17:13.120 --> 00:17:14.220
  • not a professional at this, you're gonna accidentally mix up
  • 00:17:14.230 --> 00:17:17.020
  • a nun for a resh, and if you're in a hurry,
  • 00:17:17.030 --> 00:17:20.010
  • so if the Romans are knocking at the gate, if the Babylonians
  • 00:17:20.020 --> 00:17:22.240
  • are knocking at the gate and they have a very short
  • 00:17:22.250 --> 00:17:24.270
  • amount of time to hide this Temple treasure,
  • 00:17:24.280 --> 00:17:27.070
  • it's going to be a rushed document like this.
  • 00:17:27.080 --> 00:17:29.260
  • This isn't something that they had time to perfect.
  • 00:17:29.270 --> 00:17:33.110
  • 00:17:33.120 --> 00:17:35.110
  • Jim: Jim Barfield looked at the Copper Scroll differently
  • 00:17:35.120 --> 00:17:38.130
  • than other people, and he started to just piece it
  • 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:41.230
  • together one at a time, and he found places right there,
  • 00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:44.190
  • under their noses, right where the scroll was found in the
  • 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:48.100
  • community that people attribute to hiding the scrolls,
  • 00:17:48.110 --> 00:17:51.100
  • right there, all this stuff being buried.
  • 00:17:51.110 --> 00:17:55.150
  • How could that have been missed?
  • 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:57.100
  • How could no one have thought of that?
  • 00:17:57.110 --> 00:18:00.280
  • Shelley: Right, so this is the question
  • 00:18:00.290 --> 00:18:02.210
  • that has haunted me as well.
  • 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:05.020
  • I've read through every excavation that's ever happened
  • 00:18:05.030 --> 00:18:07.290
  • at Qumran, and I was looking for this: Is there any hint
  • 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:11.220
  • of treasure buried at Qumran?
  • 00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:13.230
  • Maybe even they accidentally came across it, you know,
  • 00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:17.010
  • a trove of silver?
  • 00:18:17.020 --> 00:18:19.050
  • And so, in one case the answer is yes, there was a jar of
  • 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:23.140
  • buried Tyrian shekels, and those were the exact kind of shekels
  • 00:18:23.150 --> 00:18:27.080
  • used in Temple tithes, so we have at the entry of one
  • 00:18:27.090 --> 00:18:31.100
  • of the buildings-- it wasn't buried deep.
  • 00:18:31.110 --> 00:18:33.090
  • It was buried closer to the surface, you know,
  • 00:18:33.100 --> 00:18:34.290
  • more like the rim of the jar was close to the surface.
  • 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.240
  • If you read the finds from Qumran, it'll say "An unusual
  • 00:18:37.250 --> 00:18:41.090
  • amount of coins were found at Qumran for a site that size."
  • 00:18:41.100 --> 00:18:45.290
  • Well, if it's counting that jar,
  • 00:18:46.000 --> 00:18:48.060
  • it's an enormous amount of coins.
  • 00:18:48.070 --> 00:18:50.220
  • So that's possible that that one scroll jar was connected
  • 00:18:50.230 --> 00:18:54.140
  • to the Copper Scroll treasure.
  • 00:18:54.150 --> 00:18:56.210
  • On the other side, archaeology, as a practice, digs down to the
  • 00:18:56.220 --> 00:19:01.220
  • last level of habitation, and when you look at the Copper
  • 00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:05.090
  • Scroll, they were burying these things that long ago to hide
  • 00:19:05.100 --> 00:19:10.170
  • them, so it's way past the last level of habitation.
  • 00:19:10.180 --> 00:19:15.050
  • Jim: Ten, fifteen feet down or deeper?
  • 00:19:15.060 --> 00:19:17.200
  • Shelley: Exactly.
  • 00:19:17.210 --> 00:19:19.090
  • I mean, the Copper Scroll uses cubits, but if we translate that
  • 00:19:19.100 --> 00:19:21.190
  • into feet, it could mean 9 to 12 feet, 2.000 years ago,
  • 00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:25.150
  • that they're saying to find these things,
  • 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:27.190
  • so they were burying them to hide them.
  • 00:19:27.200 --> 00:19:30.050
  • So, yes, there's been archaeological excavations
  • 00:19:30.060 --> 00:19:32.280
  • around Qumran, but, no, there hasn't been a treasure hunt
  • 00:19:32.290 --> 00:19:37.060
  • at Qumran, so that's where there's a real miss.
  • 00:19:37.070 --> 00:19:41.050
  • Also, one of the sites that Jim Barfield sees as the most
  • 00:19:41.060 --> 00:19:44.290
  • important, a cave northwest of Qumran that all of his research
  • 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:49.050
  • points to, that has never been excavated.
  • 00:19:49.060 --> 00:19:52.120
  • He and his team had been a part of an excavation there in 2009,
  • 00:19:52.130 --> 00:19:57.120
  • that was stopped short, and so he can tell you that, for sure,
  • 00:19:57.130 --> 00:20:01.140
  • that particular site, there's never been
  • 00:20:01.150 --> 00:20:04.030
  • a thorough excavation of.
  • 00:20:04.040 --> 00:20:06.090
  • Jim: So to complicate things further is where Qumran is.
  • 00:20:06.100 --> 00:20:10.080
  • In Israel, there's different areas in Israel that are kind of
  • 00:20:10.090 --> 00:20:14.180
  • still disputed, and it's in one of those areas, so explain that.
  • 00:20:14.190 --> 00:20:18.050
  • Shelley: So Qumran is part of what we call "Area C,"
  • 00:20:18.060 --> 00:20:20.290
  • according to the Oslo Accords,
  • 00:20:21.000 --> 00:20:23.020
  • which means that it's exactly that.
  • 00:20:23.030 --> 00:20:25.180
  • It's a disputed territory, so should a peace process ever
  • 00:20:25.190 --> 00:20:29.230
  • land, a Palestinian state and a Jewish state as two separate
  • 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:33.010
  • states, Qumran, it would be up for negotiation in terms of
  • 00:20:33.020 --> 00:20:36.210
  • which side of that border it would land on.
  • 00:20:36.220 --> 00:20:40.100
  • I don't see Israel giving up Qumran, Israel's sacred space
  • 00:20:40.110 --> 00:20:44.110
  • to is Israelis.
  • 00:20:44.120 --> 00:20:46.100
  • That is the international law that it adheres to, and by
  • 00:20:46.110 --> 00:20:48.190
  • international law, anything that comes out of the ground in
  • 00:20:48.200 --> 00:20:50.240
  • a disputed territory is unclaimed.
  • 00:20:50.250 --> 00:20:53.090
  • It's unresolved.
  • 00:20:53.100 --> 00:20:55.020
  • And so even today, any digs that happen in Shiloh or in
  • 00:20:55.030 --> 00:20:59.090
  • anywhere in Judea, Samaria, technically, what they find
  • 00:20:59.100 --> 00:21:02.240
  • there is not under the authority of the official Israel
  • 00:21:02.250 --> 00:21:05.270
  • Antiquities Authority.
  • 00:21:05.280 --> 00:21:07.210
  • That's for Israel Proper.
  • 00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:09.040
  • It's for a military administrative wing of that.
  • 00:21:09.050 --> 00:21:13.160
  • Jim: We're talking easily a billion dollars, probably much
  • 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:16.150
  • more than that, and then the historical significance.
  • 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:19.060
  • Shelley: Right, and can you imagine if someone who didn't
  • 00:21:19.070 --> 00:21:21.020
  • fear God, you know, was able to figure out where the Copper
  • 00:21:21.030 --> 00:21:25.090
  • Scroll locations are and then to just brazenly go in
  • 00:21:25.100 --> 00:21:28.230
  • and unearth these things?
  • 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:30.150
  • I mean, this needed to be someone who feared God and
  • 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.120
  • needed to be someone with a mind to be able to dissect these, and
  • 00:21:32.130 --> 00:21:36.020
  • what I always think too, it needed to be someone who happens
  • 00:21:36.030 --> 00:21:39.020
  • to have an aerial map of Qumran in his home study.
  • 00:21:39.030 --> 00:21:41.290
  • Jim: That's the other thing.
  • 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.090
  • 00:21:44.100 --> 00:21:45.290
  • Jim: After meeting Shelley and hearing more about the
  • 00:21:46.000 --> 00:21:48.020
  • Copper Scroll, I knew we needed to go talk to Jim Barfield
  • 00:21:48.030 --> 00:21:52.090
  • himself and ask him how he deciphered the mysterious clues
  • 00:21:52.100 --> 00:21:56.200
  • that may lead to incredible Temple treasures.
  • 00:21:56.210 --> 00:22:01.040
  • I also wanted to study what the Bible said about the sin of
  • 00:22:01.050 --> 00:22:04.190
  • Achan, the Valley of Achor, and the predictions of turning
  • 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.250
  • the Valley of Trouble into the door of hope.
  • 00:22:08.260 --> 00:22:13.150
  • Shelley: So that Hosea 2 chapter is this yearning
  • 00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:16.100
  • for saying, "Bring us back to the days of our youth.
  • 00:22:16.110 --> 00:22:19.040
  • Bring us back to the time that we felt so close
  • 00:22:19.050 --> 00:22:21.190
  • to you like in Egypt."
  • 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.160
  • And then it points to the Valley of Achor as a place of hope and
  • 00:22:23.170 --> 00:22:26.150
  • of blessing and a place of, really, weeping reunion, and so
  • 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:30.220
  • it flips it on its side, which I love when the Bible gets binary
  • 00:22:30.230 --> 00:22:33.240
  • like that in terms of that we will change this place from
  • 00:22:33.250 --> 00:22:36.120
  • cursings to blessings.
  • 00:22:36.130 --> 00:22:38.010
  • Isaiah also has a similar prophecy about
  • 00:22:38.020 --> 00:22:39.280
  • the Valley of Achor.
  • 00:22:39.290 --> 00:22:41.170
  • And just the very fact that it was treasure that, in the case
  • 00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:45.160
  • of Achan, brought on the curses, that it was stolen treasure that
  • 00:22:45.170 --> 00:22:48.290
  • brought on the curses that was associated with a pagan people,
  • 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.180
  • and now to be able to associate Achor with holy treasure--
  • 00:22:52.190 --> 00:22:57.280
  • and the Copper Scroll uses those kind of words,
  • 00:22:57.290 --> 00:23:00.130
  • that this is sacred treasure, that this is vessels of tithing,
  • 00:23:00.140 --> 00:23:04.240
  • and to be able to put "treasure"
  • 00:23:04.250 --> 00:23:06.280
  • in a positive association and to be able to rejoin God
  • 00:23:06.290 --> 00:23:10.070
  • to his people.
  • 00:23:10.080 --> 00:23:12.130
  • Jim: Here at the Museum of the Bible, they have a Torah
  • 00:23:12.140 --> 00:23:15.150
  • scribe, and this is Rabbi Adam, and he's agreed to write for us
  • 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:21.220
  • the Scripture that we have in our English Bible
  • 00:23:21.230 --> 00:23:24.210
  • that's Hosea 2:15, that talks about the Valley of Achor
  • 00:23:24.220 --> 00:23:29.170
  • as the Copper Scroll opens with the Valley of Achor being
  • 00:23:29.180 --> 00:23:32.180
  • the door of hope.
  • 00:23:32.190 --> 00:23:35.020
  • 00:23:35.030 --> 00:23:42.020
  • 00:23:42.030 --> 00:23:45.200
  • Jim: What an amazing story, a story of treasure,
  • 00:23:45.210 --> 00:23:49.120
  • a story of the Jewish people, a story of God at work today.
  • 00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:55.170
  • Do you know him?
  • 00:23:55.180 --> 00:23:57.140
  • Have you received the free gift of eternal life that your
  • 00:23:57.150 --> 00:24:00.150
  • Creator is offering to you?
  • 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:03.100
  • The Bible tells us that we have sinned.
  • 00:24:03.110 --> 00:24:06.030
  • I think if we're honest, we will look and say yes,
  • 00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:08.130
  • we have sinned.
  • 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:10.030
  • We've fallen short of the glory of God.
  • 00:24:10.040 --> 00:24:11.210
  • Our sin has to be dealt with because God is holy,
  • 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.060
  • God is pure.
  • 00:24:14.070 --> 00:24:16.020
  • There is hope.
  • 00:24:16.030 --> 00:24:17.230
  • Yes, we've messed up.
  • 00:24:17.240 --> 00:24:19.090
  • The Valley of Achor is the Valley of Trouble.
  • 00:24:19.100 --> 00:24:22.120
  • Because of sin, we have this baggage
  • 00:24:22.130 --> 00:24:26.040
  • that's weighed upon ourselves.
  • 00:24:26.050 --> 00:24:28.010
  • It is weighing us down.
  • 00:24:28.020 --> 00:24:29.270
  • We have a wonderful God who is a God of hope
  • 00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:32.250
  • and a God of salvation.
  • 00:24:32.260 --> 00:24:34.100
  • See, he sent his only begotten Son--his name is Jesus--
  • 00:24:34.110 --> 00:24:37.230
  • to die on a cross, but he rose again, and Jesus said,
  • 00:24:37.240 --> 00:24:41.280
  • "If you'll believe in me, you will not perish
  • 00:24:41.290 --> 00:24:44.260
  • but have everlasting life."
  • 00:24:44.270 --> 00:24:47.010
  • Let me show you this: The Bible says you and me have sinned.
  • 00:24:47.020 --> 00:24:50.260
  • This is sin, and this is you and me,
  • 00:24:50.270 --> 00:24:53.020
  • and this is God.
  • 00:24:53.030 --> 00:24:54.110
  • He is holy. He is perfect.
  • 00:24:54.120 --> 00:24:55.210
  • Our sin separates us from him.
  • 00:24:55.220 --> 00:24:57.220
  • What are we gonna do?
  • 00:24:57.230 --> 00:24:59.100
  • Well, the Bible says, because of our sins, we will be separated
  • 00:24:59.110 --> 00:25:02.000
  • from God in eternity, in a place that he created
  • 00:25:02.010 --> 00:25:05.080
  • for the devil, a place called hell,
  • 00:25:05.090 --> 00:25:07.200
  • but God loves you so much that Jesus became sin
  • 00:25:07.210 --> 00:25:11.030
  • for you on a cross, and by faith in Jesus,
  • 00:25:11.040 --> 00:25:15.040
  • by trusting in him, watch what happens:
  • 00:25:15.050 --> 00:25:17.170
  • We have everlasting life.
  • 00:25:17.180 --> 00:25:20.160
  • That is real treasure.
  • 00:25:20.170 --> 00:25:23.070
  • Walk through the door of hope found in the Valley of Achor.
  • 00:25:23.080 --> 00:25:28.010
  • Jim: I believe you should get "The Copper Scroll" DVD.
  • 00:25:34.010 --> 00:25:38.050
  • This could be the greatest discovery of all time.
  • 00:25:38.060 --> 00:25:41.120
  • Learn more about "The Copper Scroll,"
  • 00:25:41.130 --> 00:25:43.160
  • and you'll also be blessed to learn more about Israel,
  • 00:25:43.170 --> 00:25:46.250
  • about God's promises to Israel,
  • 00:25:46.260 --> 00:25:48.270
  • and about the incredible land of Israel.
  • 00:25:48.280 --> 00:25:51.190
  • Another item that you really should get is this book
  • 00:25:51.200 --> 00:25:54.160
  • by Shelley Neese, "The Copper Scroll Project."
  • 00:25:54.170 --> 00:25:57.050
  • It will tell you the whole story that we couldn't even
  • 00:25:57.060 --> 00:25:59.220
  • possibly fit into the DVD.
  • 00:25:59.230 --> 00:26:02.020
  • "The Copper Scroll Project," a great book, you can get it
  • 00:26:02.030 --> 00:26:05.040
  • from us here at InGrace.
  • 00:26:05.050 --> 00:26:07.100
  • announcer: Discover the location of priceless Temple
  • 00:26:07.110 --> 00:26:09.160
  • treasure with InGrace's series, "The Copper Scroll."
  • 00:26:09.170 --> 00:26:13.180
  • This three-part, full-length DVD series is available today
  • 00:26:13.190 --> 00:26:17.020
  • for your gift of any amount to InGrace.
  • 00:26:17.030 --> 00:26:19.180
  • When you give a gift of $35 or more, we will also
  • 00:26:19.190 --> 00:26:22.180
  • include the book "The Copper Scroll Project,"
  • 00:26:22.190 --> 00:26:25.100
  • from author Shelley Neese.
  • 00:26:25.110 --> 00:26:27.100
  • Call 800-78-GRACE or visit ingrace.tv to order today.
  • 00:26:27.110 --> 00:26:31.240
  • Don't miss this exciting opportunity to get your copy.
  • 00:26:31.250 --> 00:26:35.220
  • announcer: On the next episode of "The Copper Scroll,"
  • 00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:42.090
  • the search continues as Jim Scudder, Jr.,
  • 00:26:42.100 --> 00:26:44.290
  • seeks answers to what could be the greatest discovery
  • 00:26:45.000 --> 00:26:47.260
  • of our time.
  • 00:26:47.270 --> 00:26:49.230
  • Jim Barfield: Qumran had been attacked.
  • 00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:51.160
  • Only a hundred of them survived the attack, but those men fought
  • 00:26:51.170 --> 00:26:55.080
  • hard enough that they saved Qumran, and what
  • 00:26:55.090 --> 00:26:58.170
  • they saved was more than just a bunch of stones.
  • 00:26:58.180 --> 00:27:01.230
  • Qumran housed a treasury.
  • 00:27:01.240 --> 00:27:05.170
  • 00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:11.280
  • announcer: InGrace is a viewer-supported ministry.
  • 00:27:11.290 --> 00:27:14.250
  • Thank you for your prayers and gifts.
  • 00:27:14.260 --> 00:27:18.280