Jesus the Game Changer | Episode 1 | TBN

Jesus the Game Changer | Episode 1

Watch Jesus the Game Changer | Episode 1
September 4, 2018
26:35

Jesus the Game Changer

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Jesus the Game Changer | Episode 1

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  • - This is Bath, it's in southwest England.
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  • This demonstrates, this place demonstrates
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  • the power and the reach of the Roman Empire.
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  • The Romans built this in AD 70.
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  • The nine tons of lead that they lined this pool with
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  • is still there.
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  • This is 2000 kilometers from Rome.
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  • Imagine an empire that's stretched across the known world
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  • at that point.
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  • At the same time these were being built,
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  • there was a small group of people
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  • who started following a prophet.
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  • He came from a backwater place called Nazareth,
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  • and these weren't a powerful group,
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  • they were a relatively small group of people
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  • who sought to follow this Jesus of Nazareth.
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  • They became known as Christians.
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  • A very small group, and with no power at all.
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  • If you were to kinda guess
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  • who was going to last the longest,
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  • the Roman Empire or these Christians,
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  • who would you have thought?
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  • Yet within 300 years, Constantine had made Christianity
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  • the religion of the Roman Empire,
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  • within 500 years the Roman Empire had been destroyed,
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  • and 2000 years later there are 2.1 billion people
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  • across the world who call themselves Christians,
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  • adhere to the person of Jesus,
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  • and Rome is now just a subject of history.
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  • So how did that happen?
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  • How did this person have such influence?
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  • How did the followers of Jesus
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  • become such a influential group of people?
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  • Why did the life and teaching of Jesus
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  • become such a game changer?
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  • (soft electronic music)
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  • So Rodney, this series is called Jesus the Game Changer.
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  • With all the study and research you've done,
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  • how would you see Jesus as a game changer?
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  • - Western civilization would not exist
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  • had not there been Jesus.
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  • - I believe the biggest game change
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  • that Jesus brought and continues to bring today
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  • is His presence.
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  • He showed that God was truly real in history,
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  • and brought God's presence, physical presence, into history.
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  • He left and He said, my peace I leave with you.
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  • You're not gonna be alone,
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  • it's gonna be sad, it's gonna be hard,
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  • but I'm sending you a comforter,
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  • I'm leaving with you still My presence.
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  • Today as we talk about the imprint that Jesus has left,
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  • yes, we have systems and societies
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  • built around what He taught,
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  • but what He still leaves with us today
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  • is I will never leave you or forsake you.
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  • We have the power of the living, merciful, just God
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  • who loves the world,
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  • who hasn't just left us alone to go, now get on with it.
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  • Follow Me.
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  • He does say follow Me, but he goes, guess what,
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  • I'm right with you.
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  • You can look at Me, you can walk with Me, you can talk to Me
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  • and that changes everything.
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  • - At many levels Jesus is a game changer,
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  • in my life he's been a game changer.
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  • I was a very nervous young boy
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  • who didn't know that they mattered to anybody.
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  • My parents were lovely,
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  • but in a school where I was the brown kid
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  • and everyone else was white,
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  • I felt completely marginalized and isolated,
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  • and Jesus welcomed me home.
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  • He taught me that I had value and worth,
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  • that He loved me enough to die on the cross for me
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  • and welcome me into His family,
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  • and He wanted to make something of me,
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  • so I personally have been changed by Jesus,
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  • my life game has been transformed by Him.
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  • (soft music)
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  • - Manoj, we're here in Barking Baptist.
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  • Your role here at Barking Baptist, what do you do?
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  • - So essentially I'm the pastor of this church,
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  • it's a small family church,
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  • people from different ethnic backgrounds, they come here,
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  • huge number of children in this place,
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  • and it's just a place where we wanna build family
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  • and reach out to the local community.
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  • - What's your family background,
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  • what's your ethnic background?
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  • - I was born and raised a Hindu,
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  • we're part of the Gujarati community
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  • that migrated from India to East Africa
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  • and then from East Africa into the UK,
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  • so I was born here, I'm British-Asian, basically.
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  • But I have lived in Kenya, as well,
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  • so I've got a sense of what it's like
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  • to be living in that part of the world, as well.
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  • - Now, I know you've written a book,
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  • and the book is called Filthy Rich,
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  • which is kind of an interesting title.
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  • - Yes.
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  • - [Karl] Give us your motivation, then
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  • - Well the thing, you know,
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  • we moved out to Nairobi in Kenya when I was nine years old,
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  • so my family had moved to the UK, lived in the UK,
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  • and then we moved to Kenya,
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  • and the reason was because economically
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  • things were tough in the UK,
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  • my father was a civil engineer and had lost his job,
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  • and an opportunity came up for him to join his brother.
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  • You know, things didn't quite work out for my family,
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  • and I used to see my mother slaving away in the kitchen,
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  • well, baking cakes to make ends meet.
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  • And so from an early age I started to think to myself,
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  • you know, money is really important,
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  • it's a problem in my family.
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  • It wasn't that we ever went hungry,
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  • but there was always the stress of,
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  • were we going to have enough food at the end of the week,
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  • because income wasn't always coming in regularly,
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  • and so money just became important to me.
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  • But not just having a little bit of money,
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  • I wanted to have enormous amounts of money,
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  • I wanted to essentially by filthy rich,
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  • so I kinda signed up to that whole kind of life vision
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  • from an early age.
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  • - Written a great little book which had the title,
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  • How a Tiny Sect from a Despised Religion
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  • Came to Dominate the Roman Empire.
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  • Is there a way of summarizing your ideas in that book?
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  • - Yeah, so that book was a history of the early church,
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  • so it started with Jesus,
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  • and I took the story up to the end of the fourth century AD
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  • which is pretty much when the Roman Empire
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  • became pretty much basically Christian, officially,
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  • and I looked at how that happened,
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  • you know, because obviously to begin with
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  • Christianity was a very minority interest thing,
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  • it was persecuted,
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  • it was looked down on by educated people,
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  • and yet by the end it had not only
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  • sort of conquered the empire,
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  • it had not only become the majority religion,
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  • but it was effectively the official religion of the empire,
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  • and, not only that, but I think even more interestingly
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  • it had created a new sort of culture,
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  • and that was what would last for well over a thousand years,
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  • and still does, in many ways.
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  • - If you look back in history
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  • since the church started to explode across the world
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  • with the gospel,
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  • that we humbly and yet confidently shared everywhere we went
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  • and we wanted to proclaim the whole counsel of God,
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  • we wanted the kingdom of God to be demonstrated,
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  • I think you can see this snowball of influence,
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  • of hospitals, and law,
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  • and welcome of the stranger, of education.
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  • I think almost every aspect of our society
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  • has been touched by it.
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  • - As a kid, when things were difficult
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  • I used to walk to the church from our home,
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  • which was just a few short blocks away,
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  • and I would sit in the pew
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  • and I would stare at Christ on the cross
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  • and I would say, what do You want with me?
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  • And I was enamored with Jesus,
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  • I was enamored with the idea
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  • that in my own brokenness in a broken world
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  • there was actually someone sent of God,
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  • wrapped in flesh as God,
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  • to be able to do something about the world that we were in,
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  • and so I pleaded with Jesus to make Himself known to me.
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  • - Let's jump forward. (chuckles)
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  • When it was going well, what did it look like?
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  • - Well, the reason it went well,
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  • just to give you an idea
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  • of how the business sort of developed,
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  • I started buying off-plan properties,
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  • which is effectively going to a builder
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  • and saying, look, you're building 100 apartments here.
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  • Let me take all 100 off you.
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  • It's gonna complete in 18 months time,
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  • so I exchange contracts on all of those properties,
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  • and then I sell on the properties to investors.
  • 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:47.030
  • So, it grew exponentially,
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  • because everybody wanted a slice of the property pie.
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  • And the thing is, it wasn't just investors from the UK
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  • but people from overseas wanted to invest in London
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  • and in the northern cities,
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  • because the market was just, you know, was growing.
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  • Yeah, I mean, it was a crazy world,
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  • it was a crazy lifestyle.
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  • As you can imagine, you know,
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  • I was a teacher, bought my first property,
  • 00:09:07.260 --> 00:09:10.230
  • and within a few years we were, you know,
  • 00:09:10.230 --> 00:09:13.000
  • buying millions and millions of pounds worth of property
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  • across the UK.
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  • It went to my head.
  • 00:09:17.020 --> 00:09:18.160
  • - So, in the middle of that you have the 2008 crash.
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  • That impacted you financially.
  • 00:09:22.150 --> 00:09:25.160
  • But I actually wanna skip over that a bit,
  • 00:09:25.160 --> 00:09:27.090
  • because there was another thing
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  • that really impacted you personally,
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  • and it was your son.
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  • - Yeah, my son, when he turned two
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  • I got a phone call from my wife.
  • 00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:36.200
  • She was in an ambulance saying, get to the hospital quick
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  • because his breathing is becoming labored,
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  • and he'd been at the doctor's earlier
  • 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:44.230
  • and they'd called for the ambulance,
  • 00:09:44.230 --> 00:09:46.020
  • and I just got in the car and got there,
  • 00:09:46.020 --> 00:09:49.250
  • and we knew the drill, but before we knew it
  • 00:09:51.010 --> 00:09:53.190
  • we were being rushed into resuscitation,
  • 00:09:53.190 --> 00:09:55.100
  • and I was holding my son in resuscitation
  • 00:09:55.100 --> 00:10:00.020
  • and my son's airway shut down,
  • 00:10:00.020 --> 00:10:02.140
  • and so he stopped breathing.
  • 00:10:02.140 --> 00:10:04.150
  • And, I mean, in those moments
  • 00:10:04.150 --> 00:10:07.210
  • there's so many things that, you know, cross your mind,
  • 00:10:07.210 --> 00:10:11.240
  • and in my case I'd given all my focus and energy
  • 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:15.090
  • to business, and to basically living a sinful life.
  • 00:10:15.090 --> 00:10:18.140
  • You know, people didn't matter,
  • 00:10:18.140 --> 00:10:20.120
  • my wife didn't really matter,
  • 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:22.270
  • my children didn't matter,
  • 00:10:22.270 --> 00:10:24.050
  • those relationships were not important,
  • 00:10:24.050 --> 00:10:25.170
  • but suddenly you realize,
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  • this is my flesh and blood, this is my son,
  • 00:10:27.030 --> 00:10:29.210
  • and I don't know if you've been in one of those situations,
  • 00:10:29.210 --> 00:10:32.230
  • but the room was packed, you know,
  • 00:10:32.230 --> 00:10:35.020
  • in seconds, doctors and nurses flying in,
  • 00:10:35.020 --> 00:10:39.230
  • and they essentially had to intubate my son.
  • 00:10:41.050 --> 00:10:43.120
  • So he was obviously not breathing for a while,
  • 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.090
  • and I don't know how long he was not breathing for,
  • 00:10:46.090 --> 00:10:50.040
  • but they intubated him,
  • 00:10:50.040 --> 00:10:52.130
  • and there were all kinds of complications
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  • that I will never fully know of
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  • because you don't get the chance to ask any questions,
  • 00:10:57.260 --> 00:11:01.030
  • and you don't wanna ask any questions
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  • because what do you do in one of those situations?
  • 00:11:02.190 --> 00:11:04.260
  • You're ushered into the room next door
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  • and you collapse to your knees in prayer.
  • 00:11:07.010 --> 00:11:09.020
  • - Most of the time when people talk about Jesus
  • 00:11:12.090 --> 00:11:14.220
  • they talk about how loving He was,
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  • especially to the marginalized, the miraculous stories,
  • 00:11:16.070 --> 00:11:18.270
  • and His challenging of religious leaders,
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  • and that Jesus was very popular
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  • with just the general people in the community.
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  • What we don't often hear
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  • are the stories where Jesus says challenging words
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  • and He becomes unpopular with people.
  • 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:34.090
  • John, in his biography of Jesus,
  • 00:11:34.090 --> 00:11:36.210
  • tells a time where Jesus is teaching challenging things
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  • and many of His followers start to dissipate,
  • 00:11:40.170 --> 00:11:43.040
  • they wander off and decide to leave Him.
  • 00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:46.150
  • Jesus turns to His disciples, His closest friends,
  • 00:11:46.150 --> 00:11:49.030
  • and He says to them, are you gonna leave Me too?
  • 00:11:49.030 --> 00:11:52.180
  • It's a tough question.
  • 00:11:52.180 --> 00:11:54.120
  • And Peter answers for the whole group
  • 00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:57.160
  • and says to Jesus, where else will we go?
  • 00:11:57.160 --> 00:12:00.080
  • You have the words to eternal life.
  • 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.080
  • In other words, for Peter, Jesus of Nazareth
  • 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.120
  • had the words he was looking for.
  • 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.040
  • This is the Messiah that they are waiting for.
  • 00:12:09.040 --> 00:12:12.210
  • Even though Peter had only been with Jesus
  • 00:12:12.210 --> 00:12:14.210
  • for a relatively short period of time,
  • 00:12:14.210 --> 00:12:17.050
  • he recognized that He was the ultimate game changer.
  • 00:12:17.050 --> 00:12:21.130
  • - All of the world as we know it
  • 00:12:22.150 --> 00:12:24.060
  • has been flipped upside down by the person of Jesus.
  • 00:12:24.060 --> 00:12:27.150
  • Even if we were to never open the Bible
  • 00:12:27.150 --> 00:12:29.250
  • you could find the historical,
  • 00:12:29.250 --> 00:12:32.140
  • verifiable reality of Jesus Christ.
  • 00:12:32.140 --> 00:12:36.120
  • We have our time,
  • 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:38.260
  • everything that we know is because of Jesus,
  • 00:12:38.260 --> 00:12:41.080
  • but it's not just because He was a historical figure.
  • 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:44.120
  • Jesus is changing the lives of millions of people
  • 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:47.160
  • around the world as we know it.
  • 00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:50.030
  • Jesus is the God, as Ortberg said, who will not go away.
  • 00:12:50.030 --> 00:12:54.010
  • That you can pull up all of history
  • 00:12:54.010 --> 00:12:57.010
  • and you will find that Jesus is there.
  • 00:12:57.010 --> 00:12:59.040
  • He changed my life when I was a huddled mess on the ground,
  • 00:12:59.040 --> 00:13:02.280
  • a broken young woman,
  • 00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:04.120
  • who knew religion but did not know Jesus,
  • 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:06.230
  • and because of Him I continued to go and to grow
  • 00:13:06.230 --> 00:13:10.140
  • and to study the gospel,
  • 00:13:10.140 --> 00:13:11.280
  • and that is why I preach the gospel of Jesus Christ.
  • 00:13:11.280 --> 00:13:15.210
  • - One of the interesting dimensions of Jesus's ministry
  • 00:13:20.260 --> 00:13:23.240
  • is what we would talk about in our day as the other.
  • 00:13:23.240 --> 00:13:26.290
  • So you have Jesus saying things like,
  • 00:13:26.290 --> 00:13:29.110
  • whatever you have done for the least of these,
  • 00:13:29.110 --> 00:13:32.070
  • and the beginnings of hospitals, of orphanages,
  • 00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:38.040
  • of a community that would care for people
  • 00:13:39.090 --> 00:13:41.270
  • that they were not even related to.
  • 00:13:41.270 --> 00:13:43.190
  • In the early centuries of the church
  • 00:13:45.040 --> 00:13:46.250
  • there were a couple of epidemics
  • 00:13:46.250 --> 00:13:48.220
  • that would wipe out up to a third
  • 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:51.180
  • or a quarter of the population of whole cities,
  • 00:13:51.180 --> 00:13:55.080
  • and there were folks that would write about,
  • 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:56.220
  • in general in those cities
  • 00:13:56.220 --> 00:13:57.280
  • people would just leave people for dead,
  • 00:13:57.280 --> 00:14:01.170
  • but then you had this community that were members,
  • 00:14:01.170 --> 00:14:03.100
  • they followed a guy who said,
  • 00:14:03.100 --> 00:14:04.180
  • whatever you do for the least of these,
  • 00:14:04.180 --> 00:14:06.270
  • and so they would risk their own lives
  • 00:14:06.270 --> 00:14:09.090
  • to take in those who were ill, those who were diseased,
  • 00:14:09.090 --> 00:14:14.090
  • care for lepers.
  • 00:14:14.090 --> 00:14:16.140
  • There are speeches that were given
  • 00:14:16.140 --> 00:14:17.240
  • in the early centuries of the church
  • 00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:19.200
  • raising money for the care of lepers
  • 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:22.010
  • that are extremely moving,
  • 00:14:22.010 --> 00:14:23.090
  • and there just simply was nothin' like that
  • 00:14:23.090 --> 00:14:25.120
  • goin' on in the ancient world.
  • 00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:26.270
  • - The whole of the hospital movement,
  • 00:14:29.030 --> 00:14:31.210
  • Christianity invented hospitals
  • 00:14:31.210 --> 00:14:33.280
  • that were there, not just for Roman soldiers or your family,
  • 00:14:33.280 --> 00:14:37.170
  • but for anybody,
  • 00:14:37.170 --> 00:14:39.030
  • they were the first voluntary organizations in some places.
  • 00:14:39.030 --> 00:14:43.030
  • We invented things like the rule of law,
  • 00:14:43.030 --> 00:14:44.270
  • like the idea that every individual matters,
  • 00:14:44.270 --> 00:14:46.240
  • and that kind of translated.
  • 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:49.020
  • In Britain, public schools, schools for everybody,
  • 00:14:49.020 --> 00:14:53.000
  • the church invented that.
  • 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.010
  • It was the raggedy schools
  • 00:14:54.010 --> 00:14:55.210
  • where churches used to open on a Sunday morning
  • 00:14:55.210 --> 00:14:58.020
  • and welcome kids in and teach 'em how to read and write,
  • 00:14:58.020 --> 00:15:00.260
  • and that's how our education system came about,
  • 00:15:00.260 --> 00:15:02.190
  • so throughout the centuries
  • 00:15:02.190 --> 00:15:05.030
  • Christianity's been like a seed in a culture
  • 00:15:05.030 --> 00:15:08.020
  • and it's often brought the best out of it,
  • 00:15:08.020 --> 00:15:10.060
  • and many of the things that we value most in our society
  • 00:15:10.060 --> 00:15:12.160
  • they have a Christian origin,
  • 00:15:12.160 --> 00:15:14.180
  • but we haven't done the kinda cultural archaeology
  • 00:15:14.180 --> 00:15:16.190
  • to know that, and now a lot of people wanna live
  • 00:15:16.190 --> 00:15:19.080
  • with the benefits of that Christian worldview
  • 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.020
  • but kinda cut away
  • 00:15:21.020 --> 00:15:23.040
  • the mindset that it's God that's at the heart of it.
  • 00:15:23.040 --> 00:15:25.120
  • It's God's dignity of loving us as individuals,
  • 00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:29.090
  • of us being made in the image of God,
  • 00:15:29.090 --> 00:15:31.100
  • all of that has been stripped away
  • 00:15:31.100 --> 00:15:32.170
  • and we just want the benefits.
  • 00:15:32.170 --> 00:15:34.090
  • - This is the iconic Wembley Stadium,
  • 00:15:40.160 --> 00:15:43.150
  • it's the home of FA Cup finals
  • 00:15:43.150 --> 00:15:45.120
  • and countless English football internationals.
  • 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.290
  • It's a place where great games have been played out
  • 00:15:48.290 --> 00:15:52.000
  • and billions of people, literally,
  • 00:15:52.000 --> 00:15:53.220
  • have watched games in this arena.
  • 00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:56.180
  • Anybody who's watched a game in this arena,
  • 00:15:56.180 --> 00:15:58.190
  • or anywhere else,
  • 00:15:58.190 --> 00:16:00.050
  • knows that there's often a moment that's a game changer,
  • 00:16:00.050 --> 00:16:02.250
  • it's a moment where the whole trajectory of the game shifts.
  • 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:07.030
  • Everything that happens after it
  • 00:16:07.030 --> 00:16:08.220
  • pivots on that one game changing moment.
  • 00:16:08.220 --> 00:16:12.230
  • You know, what happens in sporting arenas
  • 00:16:12.230 --> 00:16:14.280
  • also happens in world history.
  • 00:16:14.280 --> 00:16:17.070
  • I mean, think about recent world history,
  • 00:16:17.070 --> 00:16:19.030
  • like the Berlin Wall coming down,
  • 00:16:19.030 --> 00:16:21.100
  • or the terror attacks in New York on 9/11.
  • 00:16:21.100 --> 00:16:25.070
  • It wasn't just that nations changed on that,
  • 00:16:25.070 --> 00:16:27.220
  • world history changed on those two game changing moments.
  • 00:16:27.220 --> 00:16:32.140
  • You know, this series is about the fact that Jesus
  • 00:16:32.140 --> 00:16:36.010
  • is the greatest game changer,
  • 00:16:36.010 --> 00:16:37.160
  • that human history pivots on the person of Jesus.
  • 00:16:37.160 --> 00:16:41.020
  • Jesus is a great game changer in human history,
  • 00:16:41.020 --> 00:16:44.230
  • and the most influential person the world has ever seen.
  • 00:16:44.230 --> 00:16:48.070
  • (soft music)
  • 00:16:48.070 --> 00:16:50.190
  • So, Steven, you have co-authored this book, Who's Bigger.
  • 00:16:54.090 --> 00:16:57.290
  • What motivated this study?
  • 00:16:57.290 --> 00:17:00.080
  • - So, I'm a computer scientist,
  • 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:02.000
  • and I'm interested in analyzing large data sets,
  • 00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:04.170
  • and one data set that's very interesting is Wikipedia.
  • 00:17:04.170 --> 00:17:08.160
  • You know, Wikipedia has articles
  • 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.040
  • on over half a million different people,
  • 00:17:11.040 --> 00:17:14.050
  • and it becomes interesting
  • 00:17:14.050 --> 00:17:15.110
  • to try to look at a data set like that
  • 00:17:15.110 --> 00:17:17.110
  • and see what it can tell us
  • 00:17:17.110 --> 00:17:18.220
  • about the relative influence, or significance,
  • 00:17:18.220 --> 00:17:21.270
  • or mean strength of different people.
  • 00:17:21.270 --> 00:17:24.160
  • - So, now Jesus came in, Jesus of Nazareth,
  • 00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:27.070
  • came in at number one,
  • 00:17:27.070 --> 00:17:28.200
  • and obviously you've ranked from there.
  • 00:17:28.200 --> 00:17:31.150
  • How did you rank them,
  • 00:17:31.150 --> 00:17:33.030
  • 'cause that sounds like an incredibly difficult thing to do.
  • 00:17:33.030 --> 00:17:34.180
  • - So what our methodology was
  • 00:17:34.180 --> 00:17:36.070
  • that we took different measurements,
  • 00:17:36.070 --> 00:17:37.270
  • we tried to extract different measurements from Wikipedia
  • 00:17:37.270 --> 00:17:40.070
  • that would be relevant to what you would consider
  • 00:17:40.070 --> 00:17:42.190
  • to be fame, or the degree to which someone is influential.
  • 00:17:42.190 --> 00:17:46.290
  • One would be how long somebody's article is.
  • 00:17:46.290 --> 00:17:50.100
  • If you're comparing two people
  • 00:17:50.100 --> 00:17:52.060
  • and one person had a long encyclopedia article
  • 00:17:52.060 --> 00:17:54.220
  • and one person had a short encyclopedia article,
  • 00:17:54.220 --> 00:17:57.030
  • the one with the longer one is probably,
  • 00:17:57.030 --> 00:17:59.100
  • it's some kind of vote that they are probably
  • 00:17:59.100 --> 00:18:01.090
  • a more significant figure.
  • 00:18:01.090 --> 00:18:02.220
  • The one that has a page that is read more often,
  • 00:18:03.280 --> 00:18:06.250
  • you know, if we look at how many times
  • 00:18:06.250 --> 00:18:08.200
  • each Wikipedia page is read,
  • 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:10.160
  • the one that is read more often
  • 00:18:10.160 --> 00:18:12.020
  • is probably associated with a figure
  • 00:18:12.020 --> 00:18:14.070
  • that's more interesting, influential,
  • 00:18:14.070 --> 00:18:16.270
  • significant in some sense
  • 00:18:16.270 --> 00:18:19.100
  • than one whose page is read less often.
  • 00:18:19.100 --> 00:18:22.050
  • - So, there was not really a value judgment,
  • 00:18:22.050 --> 00:18:24.210
  • you weren't kind of saying
  • 00:18:24.210 --> 00:18:25.280
  • that we believe this person has more value
  • 00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:27.130
  • than somebody else. - This is not a question
  • 00:18:27.130 --> 00:18:29.040
  • of value judgment,
  • 00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:30.160
  • Adolf Hitler ranked something like sixth or seventh,
  • 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:32.220
  • and obviously there was no value judgment there.
  • 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:35.200
  • This is a measurement of what we would call mean strength.
  • 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:38.170
  • - I felt that God had come to punish me,
  • 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:43.030
  • that in that moment there's no where else I can go.
  • 00:18:43.030 --> 00:18:45.160
  • You know, all the money that I've got
  • 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:46.250
  • is not going to make a blind bit of difference.
  • 00:18:46.250 --> 00:18:49.240
  • And I believe there's an innate sense in all of us
  • 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:52.140
  • that God exists, so I just collapsed to my knees,
  • 00:18:52.140 --> 00:18:55.240
  • and I prayed, I didn't know who I was praying to,
  • 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.180
  • and this couple, they were from America,
  • 00:18:58.180 --> 00:19:00.190
  • in the UK for a few years,
  • 00:19:01.210 --> 00:19:03.160
  • and they found out that my son was ill
  • 00:19:04.260 --> 00:19:07.050
  • because they contacted my wife on her mobile
  • 00:19:07.050 --> 00:19:10.070
  • and my wife told them that, look, we're in hospital,
  • 00:19:10.070 --> 00:19:12.080
  • things are really bad,
  • 00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:14.060
  • and this couple, the woman in particular, wept for my son.
  • 00:19:14.060 --> 00:19:19.040
  • She was so overcome with compassion
  • 00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:22.150
  • that she wept for my son, and she prayed for my son,
  • 00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:25.240
  • and got the church to pray.
  • 00:19:26.280 --> 00:19:29.020
  • So my son is being prayed for people around the world,
  • 00:19:29.020 --> 00:19:31.240
  • and on that fourth day, you know,
  • 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.070
  • despite what the consultant said, you know,
  • 00:19:33.070 --> 00:19:35.150
  • your son is not gonna open his eyes for some time yet,
  • 00:19:35.150 --> 00:19:39.220
  • sort of conversation, you know,
  • 00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:41.270
  • the consultant then does her ward round
  • 00:19:41.270 --> 00:19:44.250
  • and my son just suddenly bolts upright in bed,
  • 00:19:44.250 --> 00:19:49.050
  • like there's no problem at all, he just sits up in bed,
  • 00:19:49.050 --> 00:19:54.050
  • starts pulling away at the wires,
  • 00:19:54.050 --> 00:19:56.230
  • and as you can imagine, there's elation and--
  • 00:19:56.230 --> 00:19:59.250
  • - Relief. - Joy.
  • 00:19:59.250 --> 00:20:01.040
  • I'm not the sort of person that weeps for anything,
  • 00:20:03.110 --> 00:20:05.140
  • but for four days I wept for my son,
  • 00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:07.260
  • and then obviously you weep when you see your son
  • 00:20:07.260 --> 00:20:10.260
  • sitting up in bed.
  • 00:20:10.260 --> 00:20:11.280
  • - But it is to say there's nothin' about atheism,
  • 00:20:14.080 --> 00:20:17.160
  • or secularism,
  • 00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:18.290
  • or the idea that the material world is all that exists
  • 00:20:18.290 --> 00:20:23.170
  • that says there is a dignity and worth
  • 00:20:24.260 --> 00:20:28.030
  • to suffering or dying people
  • 00:20:28.030 --> 00:20:30.210
  • that I ought to sacrifice myself for.
  • 00:20:30.210 --> 00:20:33.290
  • But the belief that there is a God
  • 00:20:33.290 --> 00:20:36.010
  • like the one that Jesus taught of
  • 00:20:36.010 --> 00:20:38.040
  • who says that the most pain-filled,
  • 00:20:38.040 --> 00:20:43.040
  • most disabled, most hurting human being
  • 00:20:44.100 --> 00:20:49.070
  • carries the image of God
  • 00:20:50.090 --> 00:20:53.230
  • and that it's an ennobling thing to sacrifice for them,
  • 00:20:53.230 --> 00:20:58.230
  • that in the ancient world we'd just put on a dung heap.
  • 00:21:00.070 --> 00:21:01.200
  • - And one of the things also that Origen said
  • 00:21:04.120 --> 00:21:06.170
  • when he was arguing with pagan Platonists was this,
  • 00:21:06.170 --> 00:21:09.170
  • he said, you Platonists and philosophers,
  • 00:21:09.170 --> 00:21:11.270
  • you talk about virtue
  • 00:21:11.270 --> 00:21:13.200
  • and you go on about how important it is to lead a good life,
  • 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:16.120
  • but you know what, you don't actually do it,
  • 00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:18.090
  • and the people who do do it
  • 00:21:18.090 --> 00:21:19.230
  • are the humble Christians who you look down on.
  • 00:21:19.230 --> 00:21:21.280
  • You know, these humble Christians,
  • 00:21:21.280 --> 00:21:23.130
  • who most of them aren't philosophers,
  • 00:21:23.130 --> 00:21:25.020
  • most of them aren't very intellectual,
  • 00:21:25.020 --> 00:21:26.230
  • they're just working people,
  • 00:21:26.230 --> 00:21:28.060
  • but they somehow manage to lead a better life
  • 00:21:28.060 --> 00:21:31.040
  • than the most brilliant philosophers you've got,
  • 00:21:31.040 --> 00:21:33.110
  • and he was kind of right.
  • 00:21:33.110 --> 00:21:36.030
  • Christians did, as a rule, at that time
  • 00:21:36.030 --> 00:21:39.160
  • lead very socially impressive lives, you know,
  • 00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:44.150
  • they formed the good part of society,
  • 00:21:46.030 --> 00:21:48.250
  • they led virtuous lives, they were known for it.
  • 00:21:48.250 --> 00:21:52.280
  • - I don't know if I can imagine a world fully without Jesus
  • 00:21:54.110 --> 00:21:58.020
  • and I don't know that I want to.
  • 00:21:58.020 --> 00:21:59.280
  • Because it would be such a different world.
  • 00:22:03.190 --> 00:22:06.130
  • But because He came,
  • 00:22:09.070 --> 00:22:10.140
  • even if we lose sight of Him for a while,
  • 00:22:10.140 --> 00:22:13.070
  • reality is, He's still part of the DNA of all of us,
  • 00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:17.080
  • He's still part of the ether,
  • 00:22:17.080 --> 00:22:19.050
  • the writings are still there,
  • 00:22:19.050 --> 00:22:21.020
  • and my sense is that people are gonna continue
  • 00:22:21.020 --> 00:22:23.200
  • to gravitate toward Jesus,
  • 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.280
  • kind of like a moth to the flame,
  • 00:22:25.280 --> 00:22:28.160
  • not necessarily because it's gonna make my life better today
  • 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:33.160
  • but a recognition that there is no better way.
  • 00:22:34.210 --> 00:22:38.160
  • - Part of the response for you, then, was
  • 00:22:39.230 --> 00:22:41.210
  • you felt that you should turn up to church?
  • 00:22:41.210 --> 00:22:45.220
  • - Thing is, I didn't have time for religion at all.
  • 00:22:47.190 --> 00:22:51.020
  • You know, money was my God, I'd made money my God,
  • 00:22:51.020 --> 00:22:53.290
  • so I was already worshiping money.
  • 00:22:53.290 --> 00:22:56.180
  • But there was a reality check for me
  • 00:22:56.180 --> 00:22:58.170
  • when my son was in critical condition.
  • 00:22:58.170 --> 00:23:02.070
  • I'd got my priorities wrong,
  • 00:23:02.070 --> 00:23:04.020
  • you know, I'd forgotten about my wife,
  • 00:23:04.020 --> 00:23:05.160
  • I'd forgotten about my children, I'd forgotten about family,
  • 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:09.010
  • and seeing God's intervention,
  • 00:23:10.100 --> 00:23:11.260
  • because there was no way that my son was gonna sit up in bed
  • 00:23:11.260 --> 00:23:14.290
  • without God's intervention.
  • 00:23:14.290 --> 00:23:16.260
  • I'd had that conversation with the doctors,
  • 00:23:16.260 --> 00:23:18.200
  • so I turned to my wife and I said,
  • 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:21.160
  • why don't we go to church, to that couple's church,
  • 00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:24.280
  • you know, the couple that prayed for our son?
  • 00:23:24.280 --> 00:23:27.070
  • But I felt that I needed to go there
  • 00:23:27.070 --> 00:23:28.250
  • for two Sundays, not one,
  • 00:23:28.250 --> 00:23:30.150
  • I wanted them to know that I really appreciate
  • 00:23:30.150 --> 00:23:32.260
  • that you prayed for my son.
  • 00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:35.000
  • - So turning up once would be appreciation,
  • 00:23:35.000 --> 00:23:36.270
  • but turning up twice--
  • 00:23:36.270 --> 00:23:38.110
  • - Was like, oh yeah, I committed, that was twice.
  • 00:23:38.110 --> 00:23:40.280
  • I had it in my head, I want them to know,
  • 00:23:40.280 --> 00:23:43.030
  • twice I'm gonna come to their church.
  • 00:23:43.030 --> 00:23:45.070
  • So I wasn't planning to go to church for a third Sunday,
  • 00:23:45.070 --> 00:23:47.110
  • but they invited me to a different church
  • 00:23:47.110 --> 00:23:49.130
  • on the third Sunday.
  • 00:23:49.130 --> 00:23:51.090
  • Rolled up at church with my family,
  • 00:23:51.090 --> 00:23:53.280
  • and I had an experience as I walked into the room,
  • 00:23:53.280 --> 00:23:56.210
  • something, it's like almost something
  • 00:23:56.210 --> 00:23:57.230
  • that I could touch in the air,
  • 00:23:57.230 --> 00:24:00.130
  • you know, the tangible presence of God.
  • 00:24:00.130 --> 00:24:03.110
  • I just felt, look, this is for real,
  • 00:24:03.110 --> 00:24:05.150
  • and I've now got an opportunity
  • 00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:07.250
  • to make a commitment to see my sins forgiven,
  • 00:24:07.250 --> 00:24:12.020
  • and for God to come into my life, and it just seemed like,
  • 00:24:12.020 --> 00:24:15.140
  • no, this is too good an opportunity to miss.
  • 00:24:15.140 --> 00:24:18.140
  • For many people they're just holding on, aren't they,
  • 00:24:18.140 --> 00:24:20.070
  • to their independence.
  • 00:24:20.070 --> 00:24:22.200
  • I was ready now to give it all up to God,
  • 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:26.170
  • and it's just, God's love is such a draw
  • 00:24:26.170 --> 00:24:29.170
  • when you really, really know
  • 00:24:29.170 --> 00:24:31.110
  • that that's what God has done for you.
  • 00:24:31.110 --> 00:24:33.190
  • Jesus's presence makes all the difference in my life,
  • 00:24:33.190 --> 00:24:37.020
  • and it would, wouldn't it,
  • 00:24:38.060 --> 00:24:39.130
  • because if God made me for a relationship
  • 00:24:39.130 --> 00:24:43.190
  • can I have any life outside of that relationship?
  • 00:24:43.190 --> 00:24:46.270
  • And so really meaning for me only came
  • 00:24:46.270 --> 00:24:49.090
  • when that relationship was connected.
  • 00:24:49.090 --> 00:24:52.230
  • I mean, God was always there, but I just opened the door
  • 00:24:52.230 --> 00:24:55.230
  • and said, God, come into my life.
  • 00:24:55.230 --> 00:24:57.200
  • And when His presence fell into my life,
  • 00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.240
  • that was it.
  • 00:25:00.260 --> 00:25:01.200
  • (inspirational music)
  • 00:25:02.170 --> 00:25:05.220