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Money, Money, Money

It Is Written with John Bradshaw

January 24, 2021

27:29

It Is Written seeks to impact lives for Christ.

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Money, Money, Money

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♪[Theme music]♪
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-John Bradshaw:This is It Is Written.
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I'm John Bradshaw.
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Thanks for joining me.
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Everybody wants it.
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I think the truth ismost everybody needs it.
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And when people get it,
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it seems that whatthey want next is more.
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It seems as though wecan never be satisfied
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with the amount of moneythat we have.
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And that mightjust be a problem.
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We read in the Bible that Godis willing to bless His people,
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but sometimes it can bethat those blessings
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are allowed to become curses.
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Let me read to you from Matthewchapter 19 where Jesus shared
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one of the most curiousverses in all of the Bible.
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Matthew 19 and verse 24,He said,
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"And again I say to you,
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it is easier for a camel to gothrough the eye of a needle
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than for a rich man to enterthe kingdom of God."
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Now, that's a fascinating verse.
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To talk with me about that andother aspects of the subject,
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I'm glad to welcomemy special guest
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from Queensland, Australia:Julian Archer.
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Julian, thanks for joining me.
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-Julian Archer: Thank you,John. Great to be here.
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-John: Julian, as aninternational speaker
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and as an author, youspeak a lot about money.
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And one of the thingsthat you've discovered
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in your studies and in your ownexperience is this:
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It seems that as people'sprosperity increases,
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that person's commitmentto God can decrease.
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Let's talk about that.Where would we begin?
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-Julian: Yeah, it's a bitlike a teeter-totter,
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or a see-saw, isn't it?
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One goes up;the other goes down.
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It doesn't have to.
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It'd be great if it didn't,but it, it often does.
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-John: So can wetalk about cases,
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chapter and verse,empirical data?
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I, I recently readan article produced
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by a Canadian news agencythat said as nations prosper,
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religion diminishes.
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So just how true is it?
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I think a lot of ushave met rich people who,
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who feel like they have no needsand don't even need God.
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Of course, we're not goingto say that that applies
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to all wealthy people.
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-Julian: Sure.
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-John: But, but how real isthis? How does it happen?
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And eventually we'll getaround to talking about
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what a person can do about it.
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-Julian: Yeah, look, it's veryreal. It's very real.
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The, the data has beencoming out for many years.
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Uh, Credit Suisse,
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a very respectedfinancial services agency
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out of Switzerland,has a lot of data on it.
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The Gallup poll, one of themost respected research agencies
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in the world, uh, as theystudy around the world,
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they find thatthe richest nations--
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so, not necessarily the biggestor, or the highest GDPs
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or whatever--but those nationswhere the adults
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in those nations actually havethe highest private wealth,
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those nations are the oneswho are the least religious.
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-John: So whatnations are they?
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-Julian: We'relooking at, uh, Switzerland,
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uh, Australia, New Zealand,
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Denmark, Sweden, Norway,the UK, even the US.
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They're the nationsthat are showing
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this teeter-totter issue.
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And those nations,interestingly enough,
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are primarily foundedon Christian principles.
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-John: Yeah, historicallywe'd refer to those--
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-Julian: That's right.
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-John:...as Christian nations--
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-Julian: Yeah.
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-John: ...whether that labelis accurate or not,
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but these are places whereChristianity has flourished.
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-Julian: That's right.
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-John: So in the past there wasa strong Christian ethic.
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Now there's astrong secular ethic,
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a strong emphasis on wealth,
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and you're saying that the datashows that these countries
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where adults areearning the most,
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that's where people are lessor least committed to God.
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-Julian: That's right.
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So, if you go to a nationlike my home nation,
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and Gallup poll comesin with their survey--
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they're surveying200 nations--
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they get to Australia and theysay--one of the questions:
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"Is religion an importantpart of your daily life?"
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Okay, simplequestion, yes or no:
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"Is religion an importantpart of your daily life?"
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Two-thirds, 67 percentof Australians say,
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"No, religion is notimportant in my daily life."
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You go across to somewherelike Sweden or Norway--
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you're looking at over 80percent of people saying,
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"No, religion's notimportant in my daily life."
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And so it's a,
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it's a significantteeter-totter situation.
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And those nations, thosetop 10 richest nations,
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were all founded on Christianlaws, Christian principles;
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they used to be, as you say,Christian nations.
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-John: Are we calling thiscorrelation or causation?
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Is this, is thisjust a coincidence?
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-Julian: Yeah. Look,according to the data, no.
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If you get the statisticianson to the data, and they,
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they will say, you know,we'll take it down
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to a certain coefficientand all the rest of it--
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they say this is rock-solid.
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It's, this is a statisticallysolid analysis that,
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as a nation's wealth increases,it has a direct impact
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on the religiosity ofthe people in that nation.
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-John: So then, one would seethis as a red flag, I think.
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Before we go any further,
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are we saying that it's wrongor bad to be wealthy?
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-Julian: No, no, not at all.
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-John: So wealth is okay?
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-Julian: Yes.
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-John: What if you'refilthy rich? Is that okay?
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-Julian: It's okay.There's no problem with that.
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-John: All right.
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-Julian: Even from a Christian,
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even from a biblicalpoint of view,
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there is nothingwrong with that.
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-John: For example?
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-Julian: Uh, Job,Abraham, you know,
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guys who had a lot.
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-John: Solomon.
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-Julian: Solomon.
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-John: King David.
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-Julian: Classic example.Yeah, that's right.
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But we must remember,though, that for Abraham,
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God said to him, He said,
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"I will bless youto be a blessing."
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Okay? So these guys didn't,
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they didn't have massesstored up for themselves;
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they had a lot of moneygoing through them,
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and God was using themto bless other people.
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So there's,there are some provisos.
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-John: Okay, so it's okayto be wealthy?
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-Julian: Yes.
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-John: But Jesus said,
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"It's easier for a camel to gothrough the eye of a needle
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than for a rich personto enter into heaven."
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Now, I've heard people saythat this is merely symbolic;
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Jesus was just making a point.
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What do you think?
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-Julian: If He wasjust making a point,
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it's a point that is verysolidly backed up today
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in the data.[laughs]
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So, so it was apretty good point.
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[laughs]
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So, uh, even--you know,you go to Hinduism--
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you've got Mahatma Gandhi,
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and he says that once financialstability is assured,
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spiritual bankruptcyis also assured.
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Okay, so this isn'tjust a Christian thing;
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this is, this is,
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this is human nature that,as our affluence goes up,
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we tend to becomevery self-reliant
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and think less of God orrelying on God or needing God.
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-John: So why doyou think that is?
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-Julian: I think the, theblessings that God gives us--
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because He wants to,He wants to bless us--
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uh, they are therefor us to, to share.
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If we put a dam, a wall on thedam and stop the, the flow,
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or even severelylimit the flow--
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you know, stilllet some out--
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but, you know, I need to keepbuilding mine bigger and bigger.
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Uh, then that's where itstarts to mess with us.
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And what, what happens,to illustrate it,
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is the inside of myheart, for example,
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when, when I was goingthrough this, this situation,
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the inside of my heartwas being filled up
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with the blessings--material blessings.
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And I was so busymaintaining them,
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insuring them,trying to make them grow,
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trying to, trying to ensurethat nobody stole them,
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or whatever it was.
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They took so muchof my time and energy
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that I simply didn't have thetime and energy for God anymore.
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-John: I think it'sworth pointing out here
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you've alluded to the fact
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that you've been a verysuccessful business person.
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Uh, and I'd like youto take a moment to talk
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about the deleterious effectthat had on your spiritual walk,
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to the extent youwrote a book called
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"Help! I've Been Blessed!"
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Which is interesting becausein Christian circles,
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again and again and againpeople are saying,
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"Got to do everythingwe can to get God's blessing,"
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and they're measuringblessing by dollars and cents
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and possessions and carsand houses and jet aircraft
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and so forth.
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So you've been through this.
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Walk us through some of this,
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to, to the place where you hadto write about this,
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calling the book"Help! I've Been Blessed!"
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-Julian: Yeah.
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Yeah, there is a lotof material out there
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that says how to be blessed--"God wants you to be rich"--
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you know, allthis sort of stuff.
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And I have no question
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the Bible says that God wantsto bless us--we're His children.
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-John: But does Godwant us to be rich?
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-Julian: God doesn't mindwhether we're rich or otherwise.
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From, from Scripture,
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um, God has very poorfollowers who love Him;
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God has very rich followerswho love Him.
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The challenge is--and thisis in my own experience--
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as I became more and morefocused and distracted
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on those blessings,
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then I had less and less time,
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and ultimatelyless and less interest
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in spending time with God.
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Now, during that whole period,
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this was somethinggoing on in my heart.
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No one knew; no onecould see this.
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I was still as religiousas anybody else at church,
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you know, supporting all thesedifferent programs,
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speaking from the front,all this sort of stuff.
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But in my heart--and this is,this is where the battle was--
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in my heart I knewthat I was lost.
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I knew that I was not in asaving relationship with Jesus,
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and I knew what the cause was.
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-John: The cause was--put afine point on it. What was it?
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-Julian: I could sayit was His blessings,
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but it wasn't.
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It was my responseto His blessings.
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-John: Okay.
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-Julian: And I--God had blessed me,
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and I had got distractedby those blessings,
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and I had to tryand sort that out,
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and that's wherethe book came from.
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It wasn't meant to be a book.
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It was my own journalingof everything I could find
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in Scripture aboutmy, my battle,
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this faith versus finance battlethat I was, that I was in.
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And then it ended upbecoming a book.
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But I had to work it out becauseit was messing with my head.
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It was, it wasreally messing with me.
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You know, Jesus says,
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"What shall it profit a manif he gains the whole world
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and lose his soul?"
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Very few people will knowthat you're in that situation.
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But in your heart, where nobodyelse can see, you know,
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and you go, "You know what,
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yeah, I'm sort of gainingthe whole world here,
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and I know I'm losing my soul.
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I've got to dosomething about this."
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-John: So you think there aremany wealthy people today
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who are having this battle?
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-Julian: You know,when it was happening,
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I thought I was the only one.
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I, I seriously thoughtI was the only one--
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because we don't discuss it.
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It's, it's a conversationthat is just under the table.
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Because we like to,like the disciples,
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you know, when the richyoung ruler came along,
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and Jesus basically said,
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"Look, buddy, you're notgoing to get into heaven
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unless you sort a fewof these things out."
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The disciple says,
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"Whoa, if he can't be saved,who can be saved?"
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You know, because he was rich;
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he was respected;he was blessed;
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he was a leader, you know,all these different things.
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And they're like,
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"Well, if they're notgonna get into heaven,
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who can get into heaven?"
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And so we just don'tdiscuss it because the fact is,
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as I've learnt over the yearsas I've traveled the world,
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talking to people in a wholelot of different places
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and a whole lot of differentlounge rooms, I might say--
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very wealthy lounge rooms--
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uh, a lot of peoplestruggle with it.
00:10:56.378 --> 00:10:59.448
They, they'resitting there, wondering,
00:10:59.482 --> 00:11:01.217
how can I be saved whenI have such a focus on wealth
00:11:01.250 --> 00:11:04.620
that I'm not reallyletting anybody see?
00:11:04.653 --> 00:11:06.255
-John: Isn't it interestingthat many, many,
00:11:06.288 --> 00:11:08.090
many average people--
00:11:08.124 --> 00:11:09.992
and I guess I mean averagefinancially people--
00:11:10.025 --> 00:11:12.928
really believe that if theyonly had a ton of money,
00:11:12.962 --> 00:11:16.432
life would be great, and alltheir problems would be gone?
00:11:16.465 --> 00:11:19.735
You're gonna say,"Not necessarily the case."
00:11:19.769 --> 00:11:22.371
It sounds like you're saying."Be careful what you wish for."
00:11:22.404 --> 00:11:25.474
-Julian: Yeah.
00:11:25.508 --> 00:11:26.709
Yeah, it was Oscar Wilde who--the great Irish playwright--
00:11:26.742 --> 00:11:29.712
who said,
00:11:29.745 --> 00:11:30.646
"There's only two greattragedies in life:
00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:32.782
one of them is notgetting what you want,
00:11:32.815 --> 00:11:35.718
and the other isgetting what you want."
00:11:35.751 --> 00:11:37.853
And that was whereI didn't realize--
00:11:37.887 --> 00:11:39.455
I thought that ifI got what I wanted,
00:11:39.488 --> 00:11:41.090
everything would be sorted;everything would be okay.
00:11:41.123 --> 00:11:44.193
But then God gave meeverything I wanted,
00:11:44.226 --> 00:11:45.828
and more and more,and things weren't okay.
00:11:45.861 --> 00:11:50.232
-John: Studies, repeatedstudies have shown
00:11:50.266 --> 00:11:52.668
there's a certain pointof income, of earnings,
00:11:52.701 --> 00:11:56.138
beyond which more money doesnot increase your happiness.
00:11:56.172 --> 00:12:01.477
It varies in the UnitedStates from state to state,
00:12:01.510 --> 00:12:04.046
I'm certain, as the costof living varies.
00:12:04.079 --> 00:12:05.815
But it's not very high.
00:12:05.848 --> 00:12:07.216
Washington, D.C.,about $100.000.
00:12:07.249 --> 00:12:09.952
Most states in theUnited States, 65.
00:12:09.985 --> 00:12:12.488
You can have 66 or 66 million;it won't make you any happier.
00:12:12.521 --> 00:12:18.194
Do you see that as odd,
00:12:18.227 --> 00:12:19.628
or can you listento that and go,
00:12:19.662 --> 00:12:21.197
"Yep, I knowwhat that means"?
00:12:21.230 --> 00:12:22.164
-Julian: Yeah, absolutely.
00:12:22.198 --> 00:12:23.499
Uh, you know, wewere talking before
00:12:23.532 --> 00:12:25.668
about the wealthiest adultson the planet
00:12:25.701 --> 00:12:27.303
and how Australians are rightup there in second place
00:12:27.336 --> 00:12:29.371
after Switzerland.
00:12:29.405 --> 00:12:31.774
So, basically as,as individual adults--
00:12:31.807 --> 00:12:34.043
so just, just our families--
00:12:34.076 --> 00:12:35.911
we are basically wealthierthan most average adults,
00:12:35.945 --> 00:12:38.914
most adults around the world.
00:12:38.948 --> 00:12:40.416
We are also thesecond-highest consumers
00:12:40.449 --> 00:12:43.719
of antidepressant medicationson the planet.
00:12:43.752 --> 00:12:46.989
So does money buy happiness?Not at all.
00:12:47.022 --> 00:12:49.491
You know, why,why would we be--
00:12:49.525 --> 00:12:51.293
are we thesecond-highest consumers
00:12:51.327 --> 00:12:52.862
because we can afford the pills?
00:12:52.895 --> 00:12:54.196
It's not just becausewe can afford the pills;
00:12:54.230 --> 00:12:56.799
it's becausethere's something--
00:12:56.832 --> 00:12:58.133
we've crossed that $65.000limit or that $100.000 limit,
00:12:58.167 --> 00:13:01.770
thinking, "Now I'mgonna be happy."
00:13:01.804 --> 00:13:05.241
And we're not.
00:13:05.274 --> 00:13:06.475
And we're going, "Oh,I'm gonna have to medicate."
00:13:06.508 --> 00:13:08.978
[Laughs]You know, as, as,
00:13:09.011 --> 00:13:10.746
as strangely sad as thatsounds, that's reality.
00:13:10.779 --> 00:13:14.083
And I've got nothing againstantidepressant medication.
00:13:14.116 --> 00:13:16.085
I believe if somebodyneeds it, they need it.
00:13:16.118 --> 00:13:18.520
But it's just ironic thatthe second-richest adults
00:13:18.554 --> 00:13:21.090
on the planet are alsothe second-highest consumers.
00:13:21.123 --> 00:13:23.592
-John: Now, I sensethat there's somebody
00:13:23.626 --> 00:13:24.994
watching us right nowwho's saying,
00:13:25.027 --> 00:13:26.795
"Man, that's easy for youto say. You've had it all.
00:13:26.829 --> 00:13:29.632
You've had all youwanted with excess,
00:13:29.665 --> 00:13:31.700
but here I am struggling away,barely making ends meet.
00:13:31.734 --> 00:13:36.805
It's easy for you to say."
00:13:36.839 --> 00:13:38.107
Well, it is easy to say, butin a moment when we come back,
00:13:38.140 --> 00:13:41.277
let's talk about whyit's easy to believe.
00:13:41.310 --> 00:13:43.178
We'll be right backwith more in just a moment.
00:13:43.212 --> 00:13:45.447
Don't go away.
00:13:45.481 --> 00:13:46.682
♪[Music]♪
00:13:46.715 --> 00:13:54.390
-John Bradshaw:Thank you for remembering
00:13:55.658 --> 00:13:56.592
that It Is Written exists
00:13:56.625 --> 00:13:58.093
because of the kindnessof people just like you.
00:13:58.127 --> 00:14:00.829
To support this internationallife-changing ministry,
00:14:00.863 --> 00:14:04.099
please call us now at800-253-3000.
00:14:04.133 --> 00:14:08.337
You can send yourtax-deductible gift
00:14:08.370 --> 00:14:09.838
to the address on your screen,
00:14:09.872 --> 00:14:11.307
or you can visit us online atitiswritten.com.
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:15.144
Thank you for your prayersand for your financial support.
00:14:15.177 --> 00:14:17.980
Our number again is800-253-3000.
00:14:18.013 --> 00:14:22.284
Or you could visit us online atitiswritten.com.
00:14:22.318 --> 00:14:25.387
-John Bradshaw:Thanks for joining me today
00:14:26.155 --> 00:14:27.523
on It Is Written.
00:14:27.556 --> 00:14:28.857
My guest is Julian Archer,international speaker and author
00:14:28.891 --> 00:14:33.062
on the subject of moneyand personal finance.
00:14:33.095 --> 00:14:35.764
It was Jesus who said thatit's easier for a camel
00:14:35.798 --> 00:14:38.400
to get throughthe eye of a needle
00:14:38.434 --> 00:14:40.102
than for a rich manto enter into heaven.
00:14:40.135 --> 00:14:42.271
Clearly, having wealthbrings some challenges,
00:14:42.304 --> 00:14:46.275
and wealth can bethe cause of challenges
00:14:46.308 --> 00:14:48.711
to a person's spiritual life.
00:14:48.744 --> 00:14:50.646
Now, Julian, aswe've discussed this,
00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:52.348
I sense that somebody's saying,
00:14:52.381 --> 00:14:54.083
"Well, man, that's easyfor you to say.
00:14:54.116 --> 00:14:55.718
You've had it,you've been through it,
00:14:55.751 --> 00:14:57.086
and maybe you're in the placewhere you can just choose
00:14:57.119 --> 00:14:59.788
to turn your backon chasing money."
00:14:59.822 --> 00:15:02.358
Why is it that really it can bedifficult for a person
00:15:02.391 --> 00:15:07.229
to maintain arelationship with Jesus
00:15:07.262 --> 00:15:09.164
when financialblessings increase?
00:15:09.198 --> 00:15:11.567
-Julian Archer: Yeah,look, I, I have, uh,
00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:15.070
I encourage young people to goout and do really well in life,
00:15:15.104 --> 00:15:18.674
whether that be financially orcareer-wise or whatever it is;
00:15:18.707 --> 00:15:21.543
I encourage them to do that.
00:15:21.577 --> 00:15:23.345
I did the same in my life.
00:15:23.379 --> 00:15:26.048
However, the challengethat I faced
00:15:26.081 --> 00:15:28.884
was that I was losingmy spirituality;
00:15:28.917 --> 00:15:30.886
I was losing myrelationship with Jesus.
00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:32.688
The higher my wealth went,
00:15:32.721 --> 00:15:33.889
it seemed the less and less timeI had to spend with Jesus.
00:15:33.922 --> 00:15:36.492
And so I say to the youngpeople, look, go for it.
00:15:36.525 --> 00:15:39.928
Put everythingyou've got into it.
00:15:39.962 --> 00:15:42.464
But hang in there with Jesusright the way through
00:15:42.498 --> 00:15:44.833
because you're,otherwise you're gonna get
00:15:44.867 --> 00:15:46.602
to the other endand it's gonna be,
00:15:46.635 --> 00:15:47.936
"Hey, look, I've gainedthe whole world,
00:15:47.970 --> 00:15:49.371
and I've got nothing;I've lost my soul."
00:15:49.405 --> 00:15:52.608
-John: So this emphasisthat you see
00:15:52.641 --> 00:15:53.976
in some Christian circles aboutget more, get more, get more,
00:15:54.009 --> 00:15:56.779
"You can have all you want,"
00:15:56.812 --> 00:15:57.746
"God wants you to berich," and so forth--
00:15:57.780 --> 00:15:59.848
uh, would you see--
00:15:59.882 --> 00:16:01.850
let me just ask youhow you would see that.
00:16:01.884 --> 00:16:04.019
Healthy, unhealthy,somewhere in the middle?
00:16:04.053 --> 00:16:06.822
-Julian: Yeah...
00:16:06.855 --> 00:16:09.958
Gut feeling, single word,I would say unhealthy.
00:16:09.992 --> 00:16:12.761
Uh, but I need to,need to explain that.
00:16:12.795 --> 00:16:16.331
Biblically, we--there certainlyare passages and stories
00:16:16.365 --> 00:16:18.567
where Jesus says, and,and God says, you know,
00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:21.236
"Obey me and I will bless you."
00:16:21.270 --> 00:16:22.504
Uh, God wants to bless us.
00:16:22.538 --> 00:16:25.607
However, there's also storyafter story after story
00:16:25.641 --> 00:16:29.411
of individualsand entire nations
00:16:29.445 --> 00:16:31.914
who turned away from Godwhen they were blessed.
00:16:31.947 --> 00:16:35.117
And if we are goingto buy in to a scenario
00:16:35.150 --> 00:16:41.223
of "God wants me to be rich,"
00:16:41.256 --> 00:16:44.359
then you've really got to havein your chest pocket,
00:16:44.393 --> 00:16:47.162
right near your heart,a ticket that says,
00:16:47.196 --> 00:16:50.065
"I'm not gonna letgo of You, Jesus,"
00:16:50.099 --> 00:16:51.900
through that process.
00:16:51.934 --> 00:16:53.302
And that's whatJesus was talking about;
00:16:53.335 --> 00:16:54.670
He was talkingabout the camel...
00:16:54.703 --> 00:16:57.372
having to go throughthe eye of a needle
00:16:57.406 --> 00:16:58.774
like a rich mangetting into heaven.
00:16:58.807 --> 00:17:01.543
It's not easy.
00:17:01.577 --> 00:17:03.378
It may sound easy.
00:17:03.412 --> 00:17:04.246
You may think,"Well, if I had money,
00:17:04.279 --> 00:17:05.180
then I wouldn't haveany problems,
00:17:05.214 --> 00:17:06.215
and that would be easy."
00:17:06.248 --> 00:17:08.250
It, it may, may seem to be easy,if you don't have God.
00:17:08.283 --> 00:17:10.752
But if you want to hold onto a saving relationship
00:17:10.786 --> 00:17:13.155
with Jesus Christ duringthose years, it's, it's--
00:17:13.188 --> 00:17:17.126
I was gonna say it's hard work,but that sounds legalistic.
00:17:17.159 --> 00:17:19.361
But it's, it's a daily battle.
00:17:19.394 --> 00:17:21.296
You know, Paul says,"I die daily."
00:17:21.330 --> 00:17:22.965
And if we go into the,the Greek of that,
00:17:22.998 --> 00:17:25.667
uh, the word for "I" in his,where he says, "I die daily,"
00:17:25.701 --> 00:17:29.505
is epsilon gamma omega,
00:17:29.538 --> 00:17:31.607
E-G-O: Ego dies daily.
00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:35.344
And when you're beingblessed, when you're saying,
00:17:35.377 --> 00:17:37.346
"Yeah, God wants me to be rich,
00:17:37.379 --> 00:17:38.347
and here I am--look, I am being rich now,"
00:17:38.380 --> 00:17:40.449
ego just rises upbecause you get proud.
00:17:40.482 --> 00:17:44.386
You become a Pharisee;you become self-sufficient.
00:17:44.419 --> 00:17:46.855
But your ego has to die daily.
00:17:46.889 --> 00:17:48.857
And I, I, I can tell you,
00:17:48.891 --> 00:17:50.425
killing your ego dailyis not easy.
00:17:50.459 --> 00:17:52.060
It's a battle.
00:17:52.094 --> 00:17:53.095
-John: Let's lookat this passage,
00:17:53.128 --> 00:17:54.530
the story where Jesusaddressed someone
00:17:54.563 --> 00:17:56.465
who is doing really wellfinancially.
00:17:56.498 --> 00:17:58.066
He came to Jesus.
00:17:58.100 --> 00:17:58.967
I'm gonna read inMatthew chapter 19.
00:17:59.001 --> 00:18:00.702
It says, starting in verse 16,
00:18:00.736 --> 00:18:02.905
"Now behold, one came and saidto Him, 'Good Teacher,
00:18:02.938 --> 00:18:05.474
what good thing shall I dothat I may have eternal life?'"
00:18:05.507 --> 00:18:08.410
And Jesus said,"Why do you call me good?
00:18:08.443 --> 00:18:10.245
No one is good but One,[and] that is God.
00:18:10.279 --> 00:18:12.047
But if [you'll]...enter intolife, keep [my] commandments."
00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:14.650
The young man said to Jesus,"Which ones?"
00:18:14.683 --> 00:18:17.553
And so Jesus enumerated anumber of the commandments.
00:18:17.586 --> 00:18:20.255
The young man then said,
00:18:20.289 --> 00:18:21.690
"I've done thatever since I was a kid.
00:18:21.723 --> 00:18:24.026
What do I still lack?"
00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:25.561
And Jesus saidin Matthew 19 and 21,
00:18:25.594 --> 00:18:28.363
"If you want to be perfect, go,
00:18:28.397 --> 00:18:30.799
sell what you haveand give to the poor,
00:18:30.832 --> 00:18:33.802
and you will havetreasure in heaven;
00:18:33.835 --> 00:18:35.737
and come, [and] follow me."
00:18:35.771 --> 00:18:37.005
And what's really interesting,what's tragic is verse 22 says,
00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:40.943
"The young manheard that saying,
00:18:40.976 --> 00:18:43.378
[and] went away sorrowful,
00:18:43.412 --> 00:18:45.847
[because] he hadgreat possessions."
00:18:45.881 --> 00:18:48.684
He was a wealthy young fellow.
00:18:48.717 --> 00:18:50.285
-Julian: Hmm.
00:18:50.319 --> 00:18:52.521
-John: What was Jesusreally getting at here?
00:18:52.554 --> 00:18:54.656
Did He really mean"sell everything,"
00:18:54.690 --> 00:18:56.625
or is this allegorical?
00:18:56.658 --> 00:18:58.393
Why did he say thatto the rich young ruler?
00:18:58.427 --> 00:19:01.029
-Julian: Well, it'sinteresting that Jesus
00:19:01.063 --> 00:19:02.731
right up said five commandments.
00:19:02.764 --> 00:19:05.234
He said don't do this;don't do this; don't do this.
00:19:05.267 --> 00:19:07.069
And the guys says, "Well,I've done that since my youth."
00:19:07.102 --> 00:19:08.537
And then Jesus says,"One thing you lack."
00:19:08.570 --> 00:19:10.672
Well, what was the one thing?
00:19:10.706 --> 00:19:12.207
Well, it happened to bethe sixth commandment
00:19:12.241 --> 00:19:13.976
that He hadn't quotedout of the last ten.
00:19:14.009 --> 00:19:16.311
-John: "Thou shalt not covet."
00:19:16.345 --> 00:19:17.613
-Julian: Exactly."One thing you lack."
00:19:17.646 --> 00:19:19.481
And, uh, He wasspeaking the truth.
00:19:19.514 --> 00:19:21.950
I mean, Jesus knows,knows this guy's heart.
00:19:21.984 --> 00:19:25.087
But then He comesalong and He says,
00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:26.421
"Sell it all. Give it awayand come and follow me,
00:19:26.455 --> 00:19:29.358
and you'll havetreasure in heaven."
00:19:29.391 --> 00:19:30.892
You know, when I,when I was in business,
00:19:30.926 --> 00:19:33.695
and I was still very activelyinvolved in church,
00:19:33.729 --> 00:19:38.166
this story was the worst storyin Scripture for me.
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:44.606
As, as a rich young ruler,
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:46.308
you know, as an affluentyoung businessman,
00:19:46.341 --> 00:19:49.411
I just hated it because I keptthinking that God was telling me
00:19:49.444 --> 00:19:54.016
that I've got to give awayeverything in order
00:19:54.049 --> 00:19:55.550
to be a disciple.
00:19:55.584 --> 00:19:56.918
And at first reading, you couldsay, "Yeah, well, it does."
00:19:56.952 --> 00:20:02.324
I then said, "No, no,it's just for him.
00:20:02.357 --> 00:20:06.128
One guy, one point in time."
00:20:06.161 --> 00:20:07.429
And it was like, whew,that was close, you know?
00:20:07.462 --> 00:20:09.665
I nearly hadto sell everything.
00:20:09.698 --> 00:20:11.166
And then I wentacross to Luke 12:33,
00:20:11.199 --> 00:20:13.535
and here's Jesussaying it again.
00:20:13.568 --> 00:20:15.037
He's saying if, you know,unless you sell everything,
00:20:15.070 --> 00:20:17.372
"You can't be my disciple,"
00:20:17.406 --> 00:20:18.373
and this time He's talkingto the disciples,
00:20:18.407 --> 00:20:20.442
the twelve disciples.
00:20:20.475 --> 00:20:21.843
Two chapters later, Luke 14:33,Jesus is at it again.
00:20:21.877 --> 00:20:25.681
But this time He's talking toan entire multitude and He says,
00:20:25.714 --> 00:20:27.949
"You've got to selleverything you've got
00:20:27.983 --> 00:20:29.151
to come and follow me."
00:20:29.184 --> 00:20:31.119
[exhales loudly]
00:20:31.153 --> 00:20:32.421
And I'm like, "Yeah, this is,nah, this is really heavy."
00:20:32.454 --> 00:20:36.491
So, I got in and I studiedthe Greek on it,
00:20:36.525 --> 00:20:39.261
at that, where He was talkingto the rich young ruler.
00:20:39.294 --> 00:20:42.497
And I found that where He says,
00:20:42.531 --> 00:20:45.434
"Sell all that you ownand come and follow me,"
00:20:45.467 --> 00:20:48.503
can also be translated,
00:20:48.537 --> 00:20:50.439
"Sell all that owns youand come and follow me."
00:20:50.472 --> 00:20:55.644
And I believe that'swhat Jesus was saying.
00:20:55.677 --> 00:20:57.279
And we know--
00:20:57.312 --> 00:20:58.480
I, you know, I knew in my heartthe things that owned me.
00:20:58.513 --> 00:21:03.085
And I think whatJesus was saying was,
00:21:03.118 --> 00:21:06.388
"Take everythingout of your life
00:21:06.421 --> 00:21:08.290
that is getting between youand me, that is getting--
00:21:08.323 --> 00:21:12.694
that is distracting you
00:21:12.728 --> 00:21:13.862
from this eternalsaving relationship.
00:21:13.895 --> 00:21:17.466
Whatever owns you,
00:21:17.499 --> 00:21:18.433
get rid of that and thencome and follow me."
00:21:18.467 --> 00:21:20.469
-John: This is gonna,this is gonna differ
00:21:20.502 --> 00:21:21.703
from person to person,obviously.
00:21:21.737 --> 00:21:23.138
-Julian: Exactly.And that's the thing.
00:21:23.171 --> 00:21:24.473
Isn't that the beautifulthing about salvation?
00:21:24.506 --> 00:21:25.807
Salvation--that relationshipwith Jesus is different
00:21:25.841 --> 00:21:28.043
for every person.
00:21:28.076 --> 00:21:30.245
I don't believe Jesusis telling every Christian
00:21:30.278 --> 00:21:31.880
to sell everything so thatwe can follow Him.
00:21:31.913 --> 00:21:34.516
It, it would just be a wholecrazy different religion
00:21:34.549 --> 00:21:38.387
that we're involved in.
00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:40.021
But I do believe He'stelling us to get everything
00:21:40.055 --> 00:21:42.224
out of our lives that's gettingbetween us and Him.
00:21:42.257 --> 00:21:44.559
-John: So the factof the matter is
00:21:44.593 --> 00:21:45.894
the guy who has the Lamborghiniparked in his garage,
00:21:45.927 --> 00:21:48.497
that might be justperfectly fine for one guy,
00:21:48.530 --> 00:21:51.333
destructive for another.
00:21:51.366 --> 00:21:52.868
-Julian: Absolutely.
00:21:52.901 --> 00:21:54.069
-John: The person who's gotthe magnificent holiday home
00:21:54.102 --> 00:21:55.504
wherever he has it--or the homes--
00:21:55.537 --> 00:21:57.472
or he or she, wherever--
00:21:57.506 --> 00:21:59.374
that might be okayfor one person.
00:21:59.408 --> 00:22:01.343
And we mustn'tjudge people, right?
00:22:01.376 --> 00:22:02.911
Because somebody may havean expensive car
00:22:02.944 --> 00:22:04.413
that ultimatelyis an investment,
00:22:04.446 --> 00:22:05.847
or properties that they're gonnaliquidate and give to the Lord.
00:22:05.881 --> 00:22:08.150
It's not for usto judge anybody.
00:22:08.183 --> 00:22:10.318
So it differsfrom person to person.
00:22:10.352 --> 00:22:13.288
Couldn't that be just givinga person an escape hatch
00:22:13.321 --> 00:22:15.590
where that person now says,
00:22:15.624 --> 00:22:16.825
"I heard what Julian said,
00:22:16.858 --> 00:22:18.126
but, you know, my fleetof fancy cars doesn't own me.
00:22:18.160 --> 00:22:20.896
Everything's okay."
00:22:20.929 --> 00:22:22.097
-Julian: Yeah.
00:22:22.130 --> 00:22:23.031
-John: Could be anescape hatch, right?
00:22:23.064 --> 00:22:24.099
-Julian: It could be.
00:22:24.132 --> 00:22:25.300
The--and it is individual,person to person, very true--
00:22:25.333 --> 00:22:28.370
but what is not individual,person to person,
00:22:28.403 --> 00:22:30.872
is when Jesus says thatit's easier for a camel
00:22:30.906 --> 00:22:34.142
to go through the eyeof a needle
00:22:34.176 --> 00:22:35.110
than for a rich personto get into heaven.
00:22:35.143 --> 00:22:36.878
So, the person might havethe Lamborghini
00:22:36.912 --> 00:22:40.115
and all the homesand all the rest of it.
00:22:40.148 --> 00:22:41.383
If they do, it will beextremely difficult for them
00:22:41.416 --> 00:22:44.886
to get into heaven.
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:46.087
Jesus said that;I'm not saying that.
00:22:46.121 --> 00:22:47.722
That's, that's what Jesus said.
00:22:47.756 --> 00:22:48.723
He said that's the fact,
00:22:48.757 --> 00:22:50.992
and then He had periodat the end of it.
00:22:51.026 --> 00:22:52.360
He didn't say, "But if..."or anything.
00:22:52.394 --> 00:22:54.329
He just said, hey, look,if, if you're rich,
00:22:54.362 --> 00:22:56.731
if, you know, even if God'sblessed you with your riches,
00:22:56.765 --> 00:23:00.302
it's gonna be really difficultfor you to get into heaven.
00:23:00.335 --> 00:23:01.970
Because riches have thislittle thing that they do
00:23:02.003 --> 00:23:04.039
on your heart, and you tendto get distracted by them,
00:23:04.072 --> 00:23:06.808
and you, you lose thatsaving relationship.
00:23:06.842 --> 00:23:09.177
-John: Two questions--we don't have a lot of time.
00:23:09.211 --> 00:23:11.246
Two questions.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:12.280
Uh, let's make this aspractical as we can.
00:23:12.314 --> 00:23:14.382
Somebody's wealthy--and wealth varies, you know--
00:23:14.416 --> 00:23:18.053
somebody's doing well,
00:23:18.086 --> 00:23:19.154
and they know that theirstuff's starting to own them
00:23:19.187 --> 00:23:21.690
and that they're struggling intheir relationship with Jesus;
00:23:21.723 --> 00:23:23.792
focus is in the wrong place.
00:23:23.825 --> 00:23:25.260
What's your advice what to do?
00:23:25.293 --> 00:23:27.295
-Julian: Uh, workout some way of--
00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:31.900
and it will depend on what,on what situation they're in--
00:23:31.933 --> 00:23:33.835
if they're owning a business,
00:23:33.869 --> 00:23:34.870
then they may havean opportunity
00:23:34.903 --> 00:23:36.137
to give half ofthe business to God--
00:23:36.171 --> 00:23:39.140
or 90 percent, 95, 99.
00:23:39.174 --> 00:23:41.810
I've seen people give 100percent of the business to God
00:23:41.843 --> 00:23:43.778
and just be paida wage out of it.
00:23:43.812 --> 00:23:45.113
So there, there are thingsthat you can do along,
00:23:45.146 --> 00:23:47.282
along those lines that issort of the practical accounting
00:23:47.315 --> 00:23:50.418
nuts-and-bolts sides of things.
00:23:50.452 --> 00:23:52.354
Uh, but ultimately, it'sget down on your knees.
00:23:52.387 --> 00:23:56.491
It's get down on yourknees more and more and more.
00:23:56.525 --> 00:23:59.561
That's, that's the solutionto trying to sort this out.
00:23:59.594 --> 00:24:04.232
Because ultimately, theriches are somewhat irrelevant.
00:24:04.266 --> 00:24:08.136
You can, as we'vealready discussed,
00:24:08.169 --> 00:24:09.504
you can be affluentand still have
00:24:09.538 --> 00:24:11.673
a really strong dailyrelationship with Christ,
00:24:11.706 --> 00:24:14.309
but they do tendto get in the way,
00:24:14.342 --> 00:24:17.045
so we've got to get backto that relationship,
00:24:17.078 --> 00:24:18.947
that "first love,"as Jesus called it.
00:24:18.980 --> 00:24:21.116
-John: Second question for you:Why does God give wealth?
00:24:21.149 --> 00:24:25.053
What's the purpose?
00:24:25.086 --> 00:24:26.054
Just to bless usfor our faithfulness,
00:24:26.087 --> 00:24:27.656
or is therea greater purpose?
00:24:27.689 --> 00:24:28.990
-Julian: Yeah. He loves us,
00:24:29.024 --> 00:24:30.892
and He wants to blessothers through us,
00:24:30.926 --> 00:24:33.929
and at the same timewe are blessed.
00:24:33.962 --> 00:24:35.263
"It's more blessedto give than to receive."
00:24:35.297 --> 00:24:36.831
So He's giving us a privilege,an opportunity to feel
00:24:36.865 --> 00:24:39.601
those blessings of givingto others in need.
00:24:39.634 --> 00:24:41.736
-John: Some people don't wantto give away what they've got.
00:24:41.770 --> 00:24:43.638
What would you say to them?
00:24:43.672 --> 00:24:45.674
-Julian: Go down on your knees.[laughs]
00:24:45.707 --> 00:24:48.343
It's really, yeah,it's really, it's God's.
00:24:48.376 --> 00:24:51.580
It's God's, and Hewants you to give it.
00:24:51.613 --> 00:24:53.515
And you will be soblessed when you do.
00:24:53.548 --> 00:24:56.484
-John: So wealth is okay?
00:24:56.518 --> 00:24:59.087
-Julian: Yes.
00:24:59.120 --> 00:24:59.754
-John: Being rich is okay?
00:24:59.788 --> 00:25:00.889
-Julian: Mm-hmm.
00:25:00.922 --> 00:25:02.090
-John: You can be a successfulChristian and be wealthy?
00:25:02.123 --> 00:25:04.459
-Julian: Yes.
00:25:04.492 --> 00:25:05.293
-John: But atthe end of the day,
00:25:05.327 --> 00:25:06.461
we have to rememberit all belongs to...?
00:25:06.494 --> 00:25:08.563
-Julian: God.
00:25:08.597 --> 00:25:09.264
-John: It all belongs to God.
00:25:09.297 --> 00:25:11.032
And if we keep that in mind,then we might see some camels
00:25:11.066 --> 00:25:14.836
squeezing their waythrough the eye of a needle.
00:25:14.869 --> 00:25:17.672
♪[Music]♪
00:25:17.706 --> 00:25:24.879
-Announcer:The pursuit of wealth
00:25:26.348 --> 00:25:28.283
has been the ruinof many people.
00:25:28.316 --> 00:25:30.352
God promises to blessHis people financially.
00:25:30.385 --> 00:25:32.821
But often, God's blessingscan turn into a curse.
00:25:32.854 --> 00:25:35.724
Get your free copyof "God Will Provide"
00:25:35.757 --> 00:25:38.393
and learn the recipeto financial success.
00:25:38.426 --> 00:25:41.496
Call800-253-3000,
00:25:41.529 --> 00:25:44.399
800-253-3000.
00:25:44.432 --> 00:25:47.168
You can write to theaddress on your screen
00:25:47.202 --> 00:25:49.004
or visit us online atiiwoffer.com.
00:25:49.037 --> 00:25:52.440
Get "God Will Provide"--iiwoffer.com.
00:25:52.474 --> 00:25:55.910
-John Bradshaw:Julian, thank you.
00:25:57.078 --> 00:25:58.346
It's really been a blessing.Thanks for joining me.
00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:00.048
-Julian Archer: Thank you,it's been great to be here.
00:26:00.081 --> 00:26:01.583
-John: Let's pray together now.
00:26:01.616 --> 00:26:03.284
Our Father in heaven,
00:26:03.318 --> 00:26:04.219
we are grateful forYour many blessings.
00:26:04.252 --> 00:26:06.087
They come in somany different ways.
00:26:06.121 --> 00:26:08.423
Frequently, Youbless us financially,
00:26:08.456 --> 00:26:11.660
but we see the dangerof allowing our blessings
00:26:11.693 --> 00:26:13.895
to be anything but a blessing.
00:26:13.928 --> 00:26:16.064
So grant that we willkeep things in focus,
00:26:16.097 --> 00:26:18.166
that however we dofinancially, materially,
00:26:18.199 --> 00:26:20.735
we will remember thateverything belongs to You,
00:26:20.769 --> 00:26:23.338
that we are Yours,and Jesus is ours.
00:26:23.371 --> 00:26:26.641
Grant us the opportunityand the desire
00:26:26.675 --> 00:26:29.544
to allow our blessingsto be a blessing to others.
00:26:29.577 --> 00:26:33.014
Work through us,both to will and to do,
00:26:33.048 --> 00:26:35.650
for Your good pleasure.
00:26:35.684 --> 00:26:37.252
We thank You, and wepray in Jesus' name.
00:26:37.285 --> 00:26:40.388
Amen.
00:26:40.422 --> 00:26:41.456
Thanks so muchfor joining us today.
00:26:41.489 --> 00:26:43.224
I'm looking forward toseeing you again next time.
00:26:43.258 --> 00:26:45.460
Until then, remember:
00:26:45.493 --> 00:26:46.928
"It is written, 'Man shallnot live by bread alone,
00:26:46.961 --> 00:26:51.099
but by every word that proceedsfrom the mouth of God.'"
00:26:51.132 --> 00:26:56.504
♪[Theme music]♪
00:26:56.538 --> 00:27:15.857

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