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Guests Todd Nettleton and Robert Orlando

December 4, 2020

22:44

The Eric Metaxas Show offers compelling perspective on American culture; political life; and stories making news around the corner and across the globe.

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Guests Todd Nettleton and Robert Orlando

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[MUSIC]
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[MUSIC]- ERIC METAXAS: THIS
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- ERIC METAXAS: THISPROGRAM IS SPONSORED IN
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PROGRAM IS SPONSORED INPART BY CARSHIELD, GIVING
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PART BY CARSHIELD, GIVINGTHOUSANDS OF VEHICLE
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THOUSANDS OF VEHICLEOWNERS PEACE OF MIND.
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OWNERS PEACE OF MIND.[MUSIC]
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[MUSIC][SMOOCH]
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[SMOOCH][WHOOSH]
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[WHOOSH][DOOR SLAMMING]
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[DOOR SLAMMING][BING]
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[BING][REVVING, SCREECHING]
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[REVVING, SCREECHING][PLOP]
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[PLOP][WHOOSH]
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[WHOOSH][MUSIC]
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[MUSIC]- MALE: HEY.
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- MALE: HEY.[MUSIC]
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[MUSIC][BOINK]
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[BOINK][ENGINE REVVING]
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[ENGINE REVVING][BRAKES SQUEALING]
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[BRAKES SQUEALING][MUSIC]
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[MUSIC][CRASH]
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- ERIC: HEY THERE, FOLKS.
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- ERIC: HEY THERE, FOLKS.SOME SUBJECTS ARE VERY
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SOME SUBJECTS ARE VERYCLOSE TO MY HEART--
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CLOSE TO MY HEART--NOT ALL OF THEM,
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NOT ALL OF THEM,BUT SOME OF THEM.
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I GET TO TALK RIGHT NOW TO
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I GET TO TALK RIGHT NOW TOTHE HOST OF
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THE HOST OF"VOICE OF THE MARTYRS RADIO,"
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"VOICE OF THE MARTYRS RADIO,"TODD NETTLETON.
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TODD NETTLETON.THERE'S A BRAND-NEW BOOK
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THERE'S A BRAND-NEW BOOKCALLED "JESUS FREAKS,"
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CALLED "JESUS FREAKS,"PEOPLE WHO'VE SUFFERED FOR
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PEOPLE WHO'VE SUFFERED FORTHEIR FAITH.
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THEIR FAITH.WHEN I HAD THE PRIVILEGE
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WHEN I HAD THE PRIVILEGEOF FINDING OUT ABOUT
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OF FINDING OUT ABOUT"VOICE OF THE MARTYRS,"
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"VOICE OF THE MARTYRS,"AND RICHARD WURMBRAND,
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AND RICHARD WURMBRAND,WHO SUFFERED MONSTROUSLY FOR
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WHO SUFFERED MONSTROUSLY FORHIS FAITH UNDER THE
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HIS FAITH UNDER THECOMMUNISTS IN ROMANIA,
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COMMUNISTS IN ROMANIA,AND THEN I GOT TO MEET HIM,
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AND THEN I GOT TO MEET HIM,I JUST THOUGHT THERE'S
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I JUST THOUGHT THERE'SNOTHING MORE BEAUTIFUL AND
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NOTHING MORE BEAUTIFUL ANDMOVING THAN THESE PEOPLE
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MOVING THAN THESE PEOPLEWHOSE FAITH PUTS THEM IN A
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WHOSE FAITH PUTS THEM IN APLACE WHERE THEY'RE
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PLACE WHERE THEY'REWILLING TO SUFFER FOR
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WILLING TO SUFFER FORTHEIR FAITH.
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THEIR FAITH.AND I THINK IT STRENGTHENS
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AND I THINK IT STRENGTHENSALL OF US WHEN WE HEAR
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ALL OF US WHEN WE HEARTHESE STORIES.
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THESE STORIES.SO, TODD NETTLETON,
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SO, TODD NETTLETON,THANKS FOR BEING MY GUEST.
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THANKS FOR BEING MY GUEST.- TODD NETTLETON: THANK
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IT IS GREAT, AND I AGREE
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IT IS GREAT, AND I AGREEWITH YOU 100%.
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WITH YOU 100%.THESE STORIES ARE
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THESE STORIES AREPOWERFUL, AND THEY REALLY
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POWERFUL, AND THEY REALLYDO HAVE AN IMPACT ON US AS
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DO HAVE AN IMPACT ON US ASWE READ THEM.
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WE READ THEM.- ERIC: THERE'S NO DOUBT
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- ERIC: THERE'S NO DOUBTABOUT IT.
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ABOUT IT.I MEAN, I REALIZE THIS
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I MEAN, I REALIZE THISSTUFF, IN RETROSPECT,
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STUFF, IN RETROSPECT,WRITING MY BOOKS ON
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WRITING MY BOOKS ONBONHOEFFER AND STUFF.
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BONHOEFFER AND STUFF.I REALIZE THAT IT
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I REALIZE THAT ITSTRENGTHENS PEOPLE TO READ
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STRENGTHENS PEOPLE TO READTHESE STORIES, AND THE
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THESE STORIES, AND THESTORIES IN "JESUS FREAKS,"
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STORIES IN "JESUS FREAKS,"I MEAN, WHAT BONHOEFFER WENT
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I MEAN, WHAT BONHOEFFER WENTTHROUGH WAS VERY MILD
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THROUGH WAS VERY MILDCOMPARED TO WHAT A
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COMPARED TO WHAT ALOT OF PEOPLE HAVE
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LOT OF PEOPLE HAVESUFFERED OVER THE YEARS.
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SUFFERED OVER THE YEARS.SO, FIRST OF ALL, TELL US
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SO, FIRST OF ALL, TELL USABOUT YOURSELF AND WHAT
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ABOUT YOURSELF AND WHATYOU DO AS HOST OF "VOICE
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- TODD: I BASICALLY HELP
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- TODD: I BASICALLY HELPTELL THE STORIES OF
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TELL THE STORIES OFPERSECUTED CHRISTIANS, AND
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PERSECUTED CHRISTIANS, ANDI'VE BEEN SERVING HERE AT
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I'VE BEEN SERVING HERE ATVOICE OF THE MARTYRS FOR
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VOICE OF THE MARTYRS FOR22 YEARS NOW AND HAVE HAD
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22 YEARS NOW AND HAVE HADTHE CHANCE TO SIT DOWN AND
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THE CHANCE TO SIT DOWN ANDINTERVIEW AND ASK
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INTERVIEW AND ASKQUESTIONS OF PEOPLE WHO
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QUESTIONS OF PEOPLE WHOARE THE BONHOEFFERS OF
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ARE THE BONHOEFFERS OFTODAY OR THE
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TODAY OR THERICHARD WURMBRANDS OF
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RICHARD WURMBRANDS OFTODAY AND,
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TODAY AND,REALLY, JUST SIT DOWN AND
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REALLY, JUST SIT DOWN ANDASK THEM, "HEY, TELL ME
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ASK THEM, "HEY, TELL MEABOUT THE PRISON CELL;
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ABOUT THE PRISON CELL;TELL ME WHAT IT WAS LIKE:
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TELL ME WHAT IT WAS LIKE:HOW DID YOU GET THROUGH
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HOW DID YOU GET THROUGHTHAT?
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THAT?HOW DID GOD SUSTAIN YOU IN
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HOW DID GOD SUSTAIN YOU INTHE MIDST OF THAT?"
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THE MIDST OF THAT?"AND THEN DO INTERVIEWS
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AND THEN DO INTERVIEWSLIKE THIS IN OUR BROADCAST
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LIKE THIS IN OUR BROADCASTEVERY WEEK TO HELP TELL
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EVERY WEEK TO HELP TELLTHOSE STORIES TO AMERICAN
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THOSE STORIES TO AMERICANCHRISTIANS.
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CHRISTIANS.- ERIC: WELL, I JUST-- I
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- ERIC: WELL, I JUST-- ILOVE IT.
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LOVE IT.HOW CAN PEOPLE FIND
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HOW CAN PEOPLE FIND"VOICE OF THE MARTYRS
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"VOICE OF THE MARTYRSRADIO"?
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RADIO"?ARE YOU ON-- IS THERE A
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- TODD: VOMRADIO.NET IS
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- TODD: VOMRADIO.NET ISTHE WEBSITE, VOMRADIO.NET,
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THE WEBSITE, VOMRADIO.NET,AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY PUT
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AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY PUTIN YOUR ZIP CODE AND FIND
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IN YOUR ZIP CODE AND FINDA STATION WHERE WE'RE
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A STATION WHERE WE'RECARRIED.
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CARRIED.WE'RE ON NOW MORE THAN
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WE'RE ON NOW MORE THAN1.000 RADIO STATIONS.
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1.000 RADIO STATIONS.YOU CAN ALSO LISTEN
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YOU CAN ALSO LISTENWHEREVER YOU LISTEN TO
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WHEREVER YOU LISTEN TOPODCASTS.
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PODCASTS.JUST SEARCH FOR "VOM
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JUST SEARCH FOR "VOMRADIO," AND IT WILL BE,
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RADIO," AND IT WILL BE,LIKE I SAY, WHEREVER YOU
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- ERIC: TELL US ABOUT THE
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- ERIC: TELL US ABOUT THEBOOK.
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BOOK.I KNOW IT'S BRAND-NEW.
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I KNOW IT'S BRAND-NEW.IT'S CALLED "JESUS FREAKS."
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IT'S CALLED "JESUS FREAKS."I LOVE THAT.
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I LOVE THAT.I USE THAT TERM A LOT IN
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I USE THAT TERM A LOT INMY OWN LIFE.
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MY OWN LIFE.I'M A JESUS FREAK.
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I'M A JESUS FREAK.I SAY THAT PROUDLY.
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I SAY THAT PROUDLY.BUT TELL US ABOUT THIS BOOK.
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BUT TELL US ABOUT THIS BOOK.- TODD: THIS BOOK IS AN
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- TODD: THIS BOOK IS ANUPDATED AND EXPANDED
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UPDATED AND EXPANDEDEDITION OF THE BOOK THAT
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EDITION OF THE BOOK THATFIRST CAME OUT FROM DC
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FIRST CAME OUT FROM DCTALK AND THE VOICE OF THE
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TALK AND THE VOICE OF THEMARTYRS IN 1999.
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MARTYRS IN 1999.SO THAT BOOK CAME OUT--
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SO THAT BOOK CAME OUT--LITERALLY IMPACTED AN
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LITERALLY IMPACTED ANENTIRE GENERATION.
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ENTIRE GENERATION.THEY SOLD OVER A MILLION
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THEY SOLD OVER A MILLIONCOPIES.
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COPIES.SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WE
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SO MANY PEOPLE THAT WEWILL MEET AND TALK TO WILL
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WILL MEET AND TALK TO WILLSAY, "THE FIRST TIME I
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SAY, "THE FIRST TIME IHEARD ABOUT PERSECUTED
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HEARD ABOUT PERSECUTEDCHRISTIANS, THE FIRST TIME
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CHRISTIANS, THE FIRST TIMEI HEARD ABOUT THE VOICE
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I HEARD ABOUT THE VOICEOF THE MARTYRS WAS WHEN I
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OF THE MARTYRS WAS WHEN IPICKED UP A COPY OF
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PICKED UP A COPY OF"JESUS FREAKS."
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"JESUS FREAKS."SO THAT WAS
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SO THAT WASRELEASED IN 1999.
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RELEASED IN 1999.OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE NOW IN 2020.
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OBVIOUSLY, WE'RE NOW IN 2020.THERE HAVE BEEN MORE
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THERE HAVE BEEN MOREJESUS-FREAK STORIES
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JESUS-FREAK STORIESWRITTEN IN THE LAST 20
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WRITTEN IN THE LAST 20YEARS.
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YEARS.THERE HAVE BEEN MORE
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THERE HAVE BEEN MORECHRISTIANS WHO LAID DOWN
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CHRISTIANS WHO LAID DOWNTHEIR LIVES RATHER THAN
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THEIR LIVES RATHER THANDENY CHRIST, AND SO WE
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DENY CHRIST, AND SO WEWANTED TO TELL THEIR
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WANTED TO TELL THEIRSTORIES TOO.
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STORIES TOO.WE WANTED TO INCLUDE THEIR
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SO THE BRAND-NEW BOOK, IT
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SO THE BRAND-NEW BOOK, ITHAS ABOUT 35% BRAND-NEW
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HAS ABOUT 35% BRAND-NEWSTORIES, BRAND-NEW
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STORIES, BRAND-NEWMATERIAL, AS WELL AS SOME
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MATERIAL, AS WELL AS SOMEOF THE GREAT STORIES FROM
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OF THE GREAT STORIES FROMTHE ORIGINAL EDITION, AND
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THE ORIGINAL EDITION, ANDOUR HOPE IS THIS WILL
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OUR HOPE IS THIS WILLINSPIRE ANOTHER
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YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE
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YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLETHAT READ "JESUS FREAKS"
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THAT READ "JESUS FREAKS"IN 1999, MAYBE THEY WERE A
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IN 1999, MAYBE THEY WERE ACOLLEGE STUDENT, MAYBE
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COLLEGE STUDENT, MAYBETHEY WERE A HIGH SCHOOL
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THEY WERE A HIGH SCHOOLSTUDENT.
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STUDENT.NOW THEY'RE A PARENT OF A
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NOW THEY'RE A PARENT OF ACOLLEGE STUDENT OR A HIGH
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COLLEGE STUDENT OR A HIGHSCHOOL STUDENT, AND THIS
00:04:23.275 --> 00:04:24.876
SCHOOL STUDENT, AND THISBOOK IS SOMETHING THEY CAN
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BOOK IS SOMETHING THEY CANPASS ALONG AND SAY,
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PASS ALONG AND SAY,"LISTEN, THIS INSPIRED ME.
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"LISTEN, THIS INSPIRED ME.I WANT YOU TO BE INSPIRED."
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I WANT YOU TO BE INSPIRED."AND JUST LIKE YOU SAY,
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AND JUST LIKE YOU SAY,WE WANT THEM TO
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WE WANT THEM TOLIVE AS JESUS FREAKS AND
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LIVE AS JESUS FREAKS ANDTO BE INSPIRED TO DO THAT
00:04:33.285 --> 00:04:35.587
TO BE INSPIRED TO DO THATBY THE STORIES.
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BY THE STORIES.- ERIC: WELL, IT IS AMAZING,
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- ERIC: WELL, IT IS AMAZING,AND IT IS POWERFUL.
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AND IT IS POWERFUL.IT CHANGES EVERYTHING WHEN
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IT CHANGES EVERYTHING WHENYOU UNDERSTAND, FIRST OF
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YOU UNDERSTAND, FIRST OFALL, THE TREMENDOUS
00:04:43.028 --> 00:04:43.795
ALL, THE TREMENDOUSLIBERTY THAT MOST OF US
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LIBERTY THAT MOST OF USHAVE, RELIGIOUS LIBERTY.
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WHICH IS REALLY DEEPLY
00:04:48.367 --> 00:04:50.335
WHICH IS REALLY DEEPLYWRONG.
00:04:50.335 --> 00:04:51.803
WRONG.AND WHEN WE READ THE
00:04:51.803 --> 00:04:52.738
AND WHEN WE READ THESTORIES OR HEAR THE
00:04:52.738 --> 00:04:53.672
STORIES OR HEAR THESTORIES OF PEOPLE WHO
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STORIES OF PEOPLE WHODON'T HAVE RELIGIOUS
00:04:54.406 --> 00:04:55.841
DON'T HAVE RELIGIOUSLIBERTY AND WHO ARE
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LIBERTY AND WHO ARESUFFERING FOR THE LACK OF
00:04:57.175 --> 00:04:58.009
SUFFERING FOR THE LACK OFRELIGIOUS LIBERTY, IT DOES
00:04:58.009 --> 00:05:00.245
RELIGIOUS LIBERTY, IT DOESMAKE US APPRECIATE WHAT WE
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MAKE US APPRECIATE WHAT WEHAVE, AND IT MAKES US WANT
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HAVE, AND IT MAKES US WANTTO USE THE LIBERTY WE HAVE
00:05:02.581 --> 00:05:04.316
TO DO WHAT WE CAN TO
00:05:05.450 --> 00:05:06.485
TO DO WHAT WE CAN TOINCREASE RELIGIOUS LIBERTY
00:05:06.485 --> 00:05:07.085
INCREASE RELIGIOUS LIBERTYIN OUR OWN COUNTRY, AROUND
00:05:07.085 --> 00:05:08.587
IN OUR OWN COUNTRY, AROUNDTHE WORLD.
00:05:08.587 --> 00:05:10.021
THE WORLD.I WANT PEOPLE LISTENING TO
00:05:10.021 --> 00:05:11.123
I WANT PEOPLE LISTENING TOHAVE SOME IDEA OF WHAT
00:05:11.123 --> 00:05:12.691
HAVE SOME IDEA OF WHATWE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
00:05:12.691 --> 00:05:13.759
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.- TODD: ONE OF THE NEW
00:05:13.759 --> 00:05:15.060
- TODD: ONE OF THE NEWSTORIES THAT IS TOLD IS
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STORIES THAT IS TOLD ISTHE STORY OF THE
00:05:16.194 --> 00:05:17.028
THE STORY OF THEGROENEWALD FAMILY.
00:05:17.028 --> 00:05:19.731
GROENEWALD FAMILY.THIS WAS AN AMAZING FAMILY.
00:05:19.731 --> 00:05:21.133
THIS WAS AN AMAZING FAMILY.THEY LIVED IN SOUTH AFRICA.
00:05:21.133 --> 00:05:22.334
THEY LIVED IN SOUTH AFRICA.WERNER, THE FATHER, WAS A
00:05:22.334 --> 00:05:28.173
WERNER, THE FATHER, WAS APASTOR ON STAFF AT A CHURCH.
00:05:28.173 --> 00:05:28.707
PASTOR ON STAFF AT A CHURCH.HIS WIFE, HANNELIE WAS AN
00:05:28.707 --> 00:05:30.041
HIS WIFE, HANNELIE WAS ANEMERGENCY-ROOM PHYSICIAN.
00:05:30.041 --> 00:05:31.476
EMERGENCY-ROOM PHYSICIAN.THEY HAD A VERY NICE,
00:05:31.476 --> 00:05:32.077
THEY HAD A VERY NICE,COMFORTABLE LIFE IN
00:05:32.077 --> 00:05:34.446
COMFORTABLE LIFE INSOUTH AFRICA.
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SOUTH AFRICA.AND AFTER 911, SO AFTER
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AND AFTER 911, SO AFTERTHE ATTACKS, AFTER
00:05:35.647 --> 00:05:38.283
THE ATTACKS, AFTEREVERYONE BECAME AWARE OF
00:05:38.283 --> 00:05:40.085
EVERYONE BECAME AWARE OFOSAMA BIN LADEN, GOD
00:05:40.085 --> 00:05:41.052
OSAMA BIN LADEN, GODCALLED THEM TO GO TO
00:05:41.052 --> 00:05:42.254
CALLED THEM TO GO TOAFGHANISTAN AND SERVE
00:05:42.254 --> 00:05:43.889
AFGHANISTAN AND SERVETHERE, AND, YOU KNOW, THE
00:05:43.889 --> 00:05:45.690
THERE, AND, YOU KNOW, THENATURAL RESPONSE--
00:05:45.690 --> 00:05:46.491
NATURAL RESPONSE--IN FACT, I HAD THE CHANCE
00:05:46.491 --> 00:05:49.327
AND SHE SAID EVEN SOME
00:05:50.362 --> 00:05:50.896
AND SHE SAID EVEN SOMEMEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILY
00:05:50.896 --> 00:05:51.696
MEMBERS OF THEIR FAMILYSAID, "THERE IS NO WAY
00:05:51.696 --> 00:05:52.998
SAID, "THERE IS NO WAYTHAT GOD WOULD CALL YOU TO
00:05:52.998 --> 00:05:54.666
THAT GOD WOULD CALL YOU TOTAKE YOUR CHILDREN TO
00:05:54.666 --> 00:05:56.635
THAT JUST ISN'T SOMETHING
00:05:58.003 --> 00:05:59.237
THAT JUST ISN'T SOMETHINGA LOVING GOD WOULD DO."
00:05:59.237 --> 00:06:00.539
A LOVING GOD WOULD DO."BUT THEY ANSWERED THAT CALL.
00:06:00.539 --> 00:06:01.139
BUT THEY ANSWERED THAT CALL.THEY WENT TO AFGHANISTAN,
00:06:01.139 --> 00:06:02.040
THEY WENT TO AFGHANISTAN,AND THEY SERVE THERE,
00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:04.643
WERNER AND THEIR TWO
00:06:06.044 --> 00:06:07.112
WERNER AND THEIR TWOTEENAGE CHILDREN WERE
00:06:07.112 --> 00:06:08.180
TEENAGE CHILDREN WEREKILLED IN AN ATTACK BY THE
00:06:08.180 --> 00:06:09.548
KILLED IN AN ATTACK BY THETALIBAN.
00:06:09.548 --> 00:06:10.449
TALIBAN.HANNELIE, AS A DOCTOR, HAD
00:06:10.449 --> 00:06:12.284
HANNELIE, AS A DOCTOR, HADACTUALLY BEEN ASKED TO BE
00:06:12.284 --> 00:06:13.952
ACTUALLY BEEN ASKED TO BEAT A U.N. MEETING THAT DAY.
00:06:13.952 --> 00:06:15.053
AT A U.N. MEETING THAT DAY.THEY HAD HEARD THERE WOULD
00:06:15.053 --> 00:06:15.954
THEY HAD HEARD THERE WOULDBE AN ATTACK.
00:06:15.954 --> 00:06:17.189
BE AN ATTACK.THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD BE
00:06:17.189 --> 00:06:18.323
THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD BEON THAT MEETING, AND SO
00:06:18.323 --> 00:06:19.024
ON THAT MEETING, AND SOTHEY SAID, "HEY, WE NEED A
00:06:19.024 --> 00:06:19.791
THEY SAID, "HEY, WE NEED ADOCTOR ON SITE.
00:06:19.791 --> 00:06:21.827
DOCTOR ON SITE.HANNELIE, CAN YOU COME AND
00:06:21.827 --> 00:06:22.894
HANNELIE, CAN YOU COME ANDBE HERE?"
00:06:22.894 --> 00:06:23.728
BE HERE?"SO SHE WAS THERE WHEN THE
00:06:23.728 --> 00:06:24.796
SO SHE WAS THERE WHEN THEATTACK HAPPENED ON HER
00:06:24.796 --> 00:06:26.698
ATTACK HAPPENED ON HERHOME AND ON HER FAMILY.
00:06:26.698 --> 00:06:27.799
HOME AND ON HER FAMILY.HER HUSBAND WAS KILLED,
00:06:27.799 --> 00:06:29.134
HER HUSBAND WAS KILLED,HER TWO TEENAGERS WERE
00:06:29.134 --> 00:06:30.469
HER TWO TEENAGERS WEREKILLED, AND, YET HANNELIE
00:06:30.469 --> 00:06:34.239
KILLED, AND, YET HANNELIEFORGIVES THE KILLERS.
00:06:34.239 --> 00:06:36.141
FORGIVES THE KILLERS.SHE LOVES THE AFGHAN PEOPLE.
00:06:36.141 --> 00:06:38.410
SHE LOVES THE AFGHAN PEOPLE.SHE TALKS ABOUT HER LOVE
00:06:38.410 --> 00:06:40.879
SHE TALKS ABOUT HER LOVEFOR THE AFGHAN PEOPLE,
00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:41.480
FOR THE AFGHAN PEOPLE,AND SHE TALKS ABOUT HOW GOD
00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:42.147
AND SHE TALKS ABOUT HOW GODSUSTAINED HER THROUGH THAT
00:06:42.147 --> 00:06:43.582
SUSTAINED HER THROUGH THATLOSS, THROUGH THAT
00:06:43.582 --> 00:06:45.317
LOSS, THROUGH THATINCREDIBLE LOSS, AND, YET
00:06:45.317 --> 00:06:46.885
INCREDIBLE LOSS, AND, YETGOD ALLOWED HER TO GO
00:06:46.885 --> 00:06:47.853
GOD ALLOWED HER TO GOTHROUGH IT, ALLOWED HER TO
00:06:47.853 --> 00:06:49.054
THROUGH IT, ALLOWED HER TOHANG ONTO HER FAITH.
00:06:49.054 --> 00:06:51.690
HANG ONTO HER FAITH.THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE NEW
00:06:51.690 --> 00:06:52.657
THAT'S JUST ONE OF THE NEWSTORIES THAT'S IN THIS NEW
00:06:52.657 --> 00:06:54.726
- ERIC: I MEAN, THE MOST
00:06:56.228 --> 00:06:56.895
- ERIC: I MEAN, THE MOSTAMAZING THING SOMETIMES IS
00:06:56.895 --> 00:07:00.532
AMAZING THING SOMETIMES ISNOT THAT SOMEONE WOULD
00:07:00.532 --> 00:07:01.833
NOT THAT SOMEONE WOULDRISK THEIR LIFE FOR THE
00:07:01.833 --> 00:07:03.001
RISK THEIR LIFE FOR THECAUSE OF THE GOSPEL OR TO
00:07:03.001 --> 00:07:04.903
CAUSE OF THE GOSPEL OR TOLOVE THEIR ENEMIES OR TO
00:07:04.903 --> 00:07:07.439
LOVE THEIR ENEMIES OR TOLOVE STRANGERS BUT THAT,
00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:09.140
LOVE STRANGERS BUT THAT,WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THIS
00:07:09.140 --> 00:07:10.408
WHEN SOMETHING LIKE THISHAPPENS, SOMEONE LIKE THIS
00:07:10.408 --> 00:07:11.343
HAPPENS, SOMEONE LIKE THISMOTHER WOULD BE CAPABLE OF
00:07:11.343 --> 00:07:12.544
MOTHER WOULD BE CAPABLE OFFORGIVING.
00:07:12.544 --> 00:07:13.879
FORGIVING.THAT, TO ME, IS WHAT
00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:14.946
THAT, TO ME, IS WHATSEPARATES THE SHEEP FROM
00:07:14.946 --> 00:07:15.747
SEPARATES THE SHEEP FROMTHE GOATS.
00:07:15.747 --> 00:07:16.481
THE GOATS.THAT'S WHEN YOU SAY,
00:07:16.481 --> 00:07:17.449
THAT'S WHEN YOU SAY,"WAIT A SECOND.
00:07:17.449 --> 00:07:19.317
"WAIT A SECOND.THIS IS CRAZY.
00:07:19.317 --> 00:07:20.318
THIS IS CRAZY.THIS DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.
00:07:20.318 --> 00:07:23.188
MAYBE THIS PERSON KNOWS
00:07:25.223 --> 00:07:26.358
MAYBE THIS PERSON KNOWSSOMETHING THAT I DON'T
00:07:26.358 --> 00:07:27.359
SOMETHING THAT I DON'TKNOW BECAUSE I CAN'T
00:07:27.359 --> 00:07:28.627
KNOW BECAUSE I CAN'TCONCEIVE HOW IT'S POSSIBLE
00:07:28.627 --> 00:07:30.729
- TODD: IT IS ONE OF THE
00:07:32.364 --> 00:07:32.931
- TODD: IT IS ONE OF THEGREATEST PROOFS, AS YOU
00:07:32.931 --> 00:07:33.932
GREATEST PROOFS, AS YOUHAVE SAID, OF GOD'S
00:07:33.932 --> 00:07:34.866
HAVE SAID, OF GOD'SEXISTENCE BECAUSE,
00:07:34.866 --> 00:07:36.301
EXISTENCE BECAUSE,HUMANLY SPEAKING,
00:07:36.301 --> 00:07:38.103
HUMANLY SPEAKING,IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE.
00:07:38.103 --> 00:07:39.504
IT DOESN'T EVEN MAKE SENSE.IT DOESN'T EVEN COMPUTE
00:07:39.504 --> 00:07:40.672
IT DOESN'T EVEN COMPUTETHAT YOU WOULD FORGIVE THE
00:07:40.672 --> 00:07:42.908
AND SO, LIKE YOU SAY, WHEN
00:07:44.376 --> 00:07:45.210
AND SO, LIKE YOU SAY, WHENSOMEONE IS LOOKING ON AND
00:07:45.210 --> 00:07:46.711
SOMEONE IS LOOKING ON ANDTHEY SEE THAT-- AND SOME
00:07:46.711 --> 00:07:48.346
THEY SEE THAT-- AND SOMEPARTS OF HANNELIE'S STORY
00:07:48.346 --> 00:07:49.381
PARTS OF HANNELIE'S STORYARE JUST AMAZING.
00:07:49.381 --> 00:07:50.515
ARE JUST AMAZING.HANNELIE, AGAIN, WAS A
00:07:50.515 --> 00:07:51.650
HANNELIE, AGAIN, WAS ADOCTOR, AND SO SHE
00:07:51.650 --> 00:07:53.318
DOCTOR, AND SO SHEACTUALLY WAS CALLED UPON
00:07:53.318 --> 00:07:55.453
ACTUALLY WAS CALLED UPONTO HELP PREPARE THE BODIES
00:07:55.453 --> 00:07:57.822
TO HELP PREPARE THE BODIESOF HER FAMILY, FOR BURIAL.
00:07:57.822 --> 00:07:59.124
OF HER FAMILY, FOR BURIAL.AND YOU THINK ABOUT GOING
00:07:59.124 --> 00:08:00.091
AND YOU THINK ABOUT GOINGTHROUGH THAT PROCESS, AND
00:08:00.091 --> 00:08:02.460
THROUGH THAT PROCESS, ANDTHEN YOU THINK ABOUT
00:08:02.460 --> 00:08:02.961
THEN YOU THINK ABOUTSAYING, "I FORGIVE THE
00:08:02.961 --> 00:08:04.229
SAYING, "I FORGIVE THEPEOPLE WHO KILLED THEM.
00:08:04.229 --> 00:08:05.830
PEOPLE WHO KILLED THEM.I LOVE AFGHANISTAN.
00:08:05.830 --> 00:08:07.566
THERE ISN'T A HUMAN WAY OF
00:08:09.634 --> 00:08:11.369
THERE ISN'T A HUMAN WAY OFFIGURING THAT OUT.
00:08:11.369 --> 00:08:12.704
FIGURING THAT OUT.THAT ONLY MAKES SENSE IF
00:08:12.704 --> 00:08:14.773
THAT ONLY MAKES SENSE IFGOD IS REAL AND IF GOD
00:08:14.773 --> 00:08:15.874
SO, AS YOU SAY, IT'S ONE
00:08:17.409 --> 00:08:18.677
SO, AS YOU SAY, IT'S ONEOF THOSE THINGS THAT
00:08:18.677 --> 00:08:20.045
OF THOSE THINGS THATREALLY SHINES THE LIGHT ON
00:08:20.045 --> 00:08:21.546
REALLY SHINES THE LIGHT ONTHE REALITY OF THE GOSPEL
00:08:21.546 --> 00:08:23.181
THE REALITY OF THE GOSPELBECAUSE YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN
00:08:23.181 --> 00:08:25.350
BECAUSE YOU CAN'T EXPLAINIT IN HUMAN REASONING.
00:08:25.350 --> 00:08:26.618
IT IN HUMAN REASONING.- ERIC: SO, TODD, TELL US
00:08:26.618 --> 00:08:30.121
- ERIC: SO, TODD, TELL USSOME MORE OF THESE STORIES.
00:08:30.121 --> 00:08:30.922
SOME MORE OF THESE STORIES.I MEAN, THE BOOK CONTAINS,
00:08:30.922 --> 00:08:32.223
I MEAN, THE BOOK CONTAINS,YOU SAID, A LOT OF THE
00:08:32.223 --> 00:08:33.692
YOU SAID, A LOT OF THESTORIES FROM THE 1999
00:08:33.692 --> 00:08:35.160
STORIES FROM THE 1999VERSION, BUT THEN YOU'VE
00:08:35.160 --> 00:08:37.862
VERSION, BUT THEN YOU'VEUPDATED IT WITH STORIES
00:08:37.862 --> 00:08:38.763
UPDATED IT WITH STORIESFROM THE LAST 21 YEARS.
00:08:38.763 --> 00:08:39.331
FROM THE LAST 21 YEARS.- TODD: WELL, ONE OF THE
00:08:39.331 --> 00:08:41.166
- TODD: WELL, ONE OF THESTORIES THAT IS MY FAVORITE--
00:08:41.166 --> 00:08:44.135
STORIES THAT IS MY FAVORITE--AND IT'S ONE THAT CARRIED
00:08:44.135 --> 00:08:44.869
AND IT'S ONE THAT CARRIEDOVER FROM THE ORIGINAL EDITION--
00:08:44.869 --> 00:08:46.972
OVER FROM THE ORIGINAL EDITION--IS THE STORY OF TROFIM DIMITROV.
00:08:46.972 --> 00:08:49.174
IS THE STORY OF TROFIM DIMITROV.HE WAS A CHRISTIAN LIVING
00:08:49.174 --> 00:08:50.408
HE WAS A CHRISTIAN LIVINGBEHIND THE IRON CURTAIN
00:08:50.408 --> 00:08:51.576
BEHIND THE IRON CURTAINDURING THE SOVIET UNION
00:08:51.576 --> 00:08:53.511
DURING THE SOVIET UNIONTIMES, AND THE BOOK TELLS
00:08:53.511 --> 00:08:54.112
TIMES, AND THE BOOK TELLSTHE STORY.
00:08:54.112 --> 00:08:55.180
THE STORY.THE GUARDS WERE DETERMINED
00:08:55.180 --> 00:08:56.147
THE GUARDS WERE DETERMINEDTO BREAK HIM.
00:08:56.147 --> 00:08:56.915
TO BREAK HIM.THEY WERE DETERMINED TO
00:08:56.915 --> 00:08:58.817
THEY WERE DETERMINED TOBREAK HIS FAITH IN CHRIST.
00:08:58.817 --> 00:09:00.018
BREAK HIS FAITH IN CHRIST.THEY CARRIED HIM TO THE
00:09:00.018 --> 00:09:01.820
THEY CARRIED HIM TO THEEDGE OF A PIT FILLED WITH
00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:03.054
EDGE OF A PIT FILLED WITHDOGS, AND THEY THREW HIM
00:09:03.054 --> 00:09:06.358
AND THEY KIND OF BACKED
00:09:07.492 --> 00:09:08.727
AND THEY KIND OF BACKEDAWAY, AND THEY HEARD THE
00:09:08.727 --> 00:09:09.794
AWAY, AND THEY HEARD THEDOGS GOING CRAZY, AND THEY
00:09:09.794 --> 00:09:11.863
DOGS GOING CRAZY, AND THEYTHOUGHT, "WELL, YOU KNOW,
00:09:11.863 --> 00:09:13.131
THOUGHT, "WELL, YOU KNOW,THIS IS THE END OF TROFIM.
00:09:13.131 --> 00:09:13.865
THIS IS THE END OF TROFIM.THIS IS THE END OF HIS
00:09:13.865 --> 00:09:14.599
THIS IS THE END OF HISFAITH."
00:09:14.599 --> 00:09:15.867
FAITH."BUT THEN, AS THEY
00:09:15.867 --> 00:09:17.168
BUT THEN, AS THEYSTEPPED FORWARD AND LOOKED
00:09:17.168 --> 00:09:18.603
STEPPED FORWARD AND LOOKEDDOWN INTO THE PIT,
00:09:18.603 --> 00:09:19.771
DOWN INTO THE PIT,WHAT THEY SAW WAS
00:09:19.771 --> 00:09:21.506
WHAT THEY SAW WASTROFIM DIMITROV KNEELING
00:09:21.506 --> 00:09:23.842
TROFIM DIMITROV KNEELINGIN PRAYER AT THE BOTTOM OF
00:09:23.842 --> 00:09:26.177
IN PRAYER AT THE BOTTOM OFTHIS PIT, AND THESE WILD
00:09:26.177 --> 00:09:28.179
THIS PIT, AND THESE WILDDOGS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TO
00:09:28.179 --> 00:09:29.347
DOGS THAT WERE SUPPOSED TOBE ATTACKING HIM, ACTUALLY
00:09:29.347 --> 00:09:31.483
BE ATTACKING HIM, ACTUALLYTRYING TO CLIMB THE WALLS
00:09:31.483 --> 00:09:33.451
TRYING TO CLIMB THE WALLSAND GET OUT OF THE PIT.
00:09:33.451 --> 00:09:34.119
AND GET OUT OF THE PIT.[LAUGHS]
00:09:34.119 --> 00:09:35.286
[LAUGHS]THE DOGS WANTED NOTHING TO
00:09:35.286 --> 00:09:36.154
THE DOGS WANTED NOTHING TODO WITH HIM.
00:09:36.154 --> 00:09:36.821
DO WITH HIM.THEY WANTED TO GET AWAY
00:09:36.821 --> 00:09:37.656
THEY WANTED TO GET AWAYFROM HIM.
00:09:37.656 --> 00:09:39.591
FROM HIM.AND YOU THINK ABOUT IT:
00:09:39.591 --> 00:09:40.358
AND YOU THINK ABOUT IT:YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUT
00:09:40.358 --> 00:09:41.326
YOU KNOW, WE TALKED ABOUTTHE PROOFS OF GOD'S
00:09:41.326 --> 00:09:42.494
WHAT DID THOSE GUARDS
00:09:44.195 --> 00:09:45.330
WHAT DID THOSE GUARDSTHINK WHEN THEY LOOK DOWN
00:09:45.330 --> 00:09:46.698
THINK WHEN THEY LOOK DOWNIN THAT PIT AND THEY SEE
00:09:46.698 --> 00:09:47.499
IN THAT PIT AND THEY SEETHE DOGS TRYING TO GET
00:09:47.499 --> 00:09:49.567
THE DOGS TRYING TO GETAWAY FROM THE PRAYING MAN?
00:09:49.567 --> 00:09:52.504
AWAY FROM THE PRAYING MAN?ANOTHER PROOF THAT GOD IS
00:09:52.504 --> 00:09:53.938
ANOTHER PROOF THAT GOD ISREAL AND THAT HE'S ABLE TO
00:09:53.938 --> 00:09:55.907
- ERIC: LISTEN, THOSE
00:09:57.609 --> 00:09:59.944
- ERIC: LISTEN, THOSESTORIES, YOU CAN NEVER
00:09:59.944 --> 00:10:00.845
STORIES, YOU CAN NEVERPROVE THESE THINGS BECAUSE
00:10:00.845 --> 00:10:01.846
PROVE THESE THINGS BECAUSETHERE ARE PEOPLE
00:10:01.846 --> 00:10:03.448
THERE ARE PEOPLETHAT--SOME PEOPLE WILL
00:10:03.448 --> 00:10:05.917
THAT--SOME PEOPLE WILLJUST REFUSE TO LOOK AT THE
00:10:05.917 --> 00:10:07.085
JUST REFUSE TO LOOK AT THEEVIDENCE AND TO LOOK AT
00:10:07.085 --> 00:10:09.454
EVIDENCE AND TO LOOK ATTHE PROOF, OR I SHOULD
00:10:09.454 --> 00:10:10.155
THE PROOF, OR I SHOULDSAY, YOU CAN NEVER
00:10:10.155 --> 00:10:11.322
SAY, YOU CAN NEVERCONVINCE SOME PEOPLE EVEN
00:10:11.322 --> 00:10:12.323
CONVINCE SOME PEOPLE EVENWHEN YOU HAVE PROOF, BUT I
00:10:12.323 --> 00:10:13.458
WHEN YOU HAVE PROOF, BUT ITHINK IT'S VITAL THAT WE
00:10:13.458 --> 00:10:15.060
THINK IT'S VITAL THAT WECONVINCE OURSELVES.
00:10:15.060 --> 00:10:16.761
CONVINCE OURSELVES.WHEN WE READ STORIES LIKE
00:10:16.761 --> 00:10:18.697
WHEN WE READ STORIES LIKETHIS, MOST PEOPLE WITH A
00:10:18.697 --> 00:10:20.198
THIS, MOST PEOPLE WITH ASLIGHTLY OPEN MIND KNOW
00:10:20.198 --> 00:10:22.867
SLIGHTLY OPEN MIND KNOWTHIS HAPPENED.
00:10:22.867 --> 00:10:24.536
THIS HAPPENED.THIS IS NOT MADE UP.
00:10:24.536 --> 00:10:25.437
THIS IS NOT MADE UP.IT'S NOT A FAIRY TALE.
00:10:25.437 --> 00:10:26.671
IT'S NOT A FAIRY TALE.IT'S NOT ONE OF THESE
00:10:26.671 --> 00:10:27.605
IT'S NOT ONE OF THESESTORIES OF THE SAINTS FROM
00:10:27.605 --> 00:10:28.940
STORIES OF THE SAINTS FROMTHE FIFTH CENTURY THAT
00:10:28.940 --> 00:10:30.108
THE FIFTH CENTURY THATJUST SOUNDS SILLY.
00:10:30.108 --> 00:10:31.676
JUST SOUNDS SILLY.THIS IS REAL.
00:10:31.676 --> 00:10:33.011
THIS IS REAL.THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN SO LONG
00:10:33.011 --> 00:10:34.345
WE HAVE WITNESSES.
00:10:36.281 --> 00:10:38.216
WE HAVE WITNESSES.AND WE HEAR STORIES LIKE
00:10:38.216 --> 00:10:39.250
AND WE HEAR STORIES LIKETHIS FROM THE MISSION
00:10:39.250 --> 00:10:41.453
THIS FROM THE MISSIONFIELD, BUT IF YOU'RE NOT
00:10:41.453 --> 00:10:42.387
FIELD, BUT IF YOU'RE NOTHEARING THESE STORIES
00:10:42.387 --> 00:10:43.288
HEARING THESE STORIESOFTEN ENOUGH, YOU FORGET
00:10:43.288 --> 00:10:44.689
YOU FORGET THAT HE IS
00:10:47.025 --> 00:10:48.727
YOU FORGET THAT HE ISREAL, THAT HE IS POWERFUL,
00:10:48.727 --> 00:10:49.961
REAL, THAT HE IS POWERFUL,THAT HE DOES STORIES, THAT
00:10:49.961 --> 00:10:51.196
THAT HE DOES STORIES, THATHE DOES THINGS LIKE THIS.
00:10:51.196 --> 00:10:52.030
HE DOES THINGS LIKE THIS.DOESN'T MEAN HE'S GONNA DO
00:10:52.030 --> 00:10:52.897
DOESN'T MEAN HE'S GONNA DOIT EVERY TIME.
00:10:52.897 --> 00:10:54.032
IT EVERY TIME.MANY PEOPLE ARE THROWN TO
00:10:54.032 --> 00:10:54.966
AND THEY'RE KILLED, BUT
00:10:56.668 --> 00:10:57.802
AND THEY'RE KILLED, BUTTHE POINT IS WE NEED TO
00:10:57.802 --> 00:10:58.737
THE POINT IS WE NEED TOKNOW THESE STORIES.
00:10:58.737 --> 00:10:59.804
KNOW THESE STORIES.WE NEED TO HEAR THESE
00:10:59.804 --> 00:11:00.839
WE NEED TO HEAR THESESTORIES AND SHARE THESE
00:11:00.839 --> 00:11:01.940
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE
00:11:03.608 --> 00:11:04.709
SO THAT'S ONE OF THEREASONS I WANTED TO HAVE
00:11:04.709 --> 00:11:05.610
REASONS I WANTED TO HAVEYOU ON THE PROGRAM BECAUSE
00:11:05.610 --> 00:11:07.145
YOU ON THE PROGRAM BECAUSEI THINK PEOPLE NEED THIS
00:11:07.145 --> 00:11:08.046
I THINK PEOPLE NEED THISFOR THEIR OWN FAITH.
00:11:08.046 --> 00:11:09.981
FOR THEIR OWN FAITH.WE ARE STRENGTHENED
00:11:09.981 --> 00:11:13.251
WE ARE STRENGTHENEDPROFOUNDLY IN OUR FAITH
00:11:13.251 --> 00:11:13.818
SO THE BOOK IS "JESUS FREAKS,"
00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:15.620
SO THE BOOK IS "JESUS FREAKS,"BRAND-NEW EDITION.
00:11:15.620 --> 00:11:16.588
WE ALL LONG FOR A WORLD IN
00:11:20.158 --> 00:11:21.426
WE ALL LONG FOR A WORLD INWHICH GOD DOES STUFF LIKE
00:11:21.426 --> 00:11:23.228
WHICH GOD DOES STUFF LIKETHIS, AND IF WE DON'T
00:11:23.228 --> 00:11:24.028
THIS, AND IF WE DON'TSHARE THESE STORIES, WE
00:11:24.028 --> 00:11:25.263
SHARE THESE STORIES, WEFORGET THAT WE DO LIVE IN
00:11:25.263 --> 00:11:26.297
THAT ALL AROUND US, THIS
00:11:27.699 --> 00:11:29.601
THAT ALL AROUND US, THISGOD IS ACTING.
00:11:29.601 --> 00:11:30.735
GOD IS ACTING.IF WE DON'T SHARE THESE
00:11:30.735 --> 00:11:32.003
IF WE DON'T SHARE THESESTORIES, WHETHER THEY
00:11:32.003 --> 00:11:33.138
STORIES, WHETHER THEYHAPPEN TO US OR OTHERS, IN
00:11:33.138 --> 00:11:34.272
HAPPEN TO US OR OTHERS, INA WAY, WE'RE NEGLIGENT.
00:11:34.272 --> 00:11:35.573
A WAY, WE'RE NEGLIGENT.WE'RE GUILTY.
00:11:35.573 --> 00:11:36.741
WE'RE GUILTY.WE'RE ALLOWING A FALSE
00:11:36.741 --> 00:11:38.343
WE'RE ALLOWING A FALSENARRATIVE OF A WORLD
00:11:38.343 --> 00:11:40.044
NARRATIVE OF A WORLDWITHOUT GOD TO CONTINUE.
00:11:40.044 --> 00:11:41.446
WITHOUT GOD TO CONTINUE.THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA AND
00:11:41.446 --> 00:11:43.148
THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA ANDOFTEN THE CONSERVATIVE
00:11:43.148 --> 00:11:44.015
OFTEN THE CONSERVATIVEMEDIA, THEY SHY AWAY FROM
00:11:44.015 --> 00:11:45.917
MEDIA, THEY SHY AWAY FROMTHESE KINDS OF STORIES.
00:11:45.917 --> 00:11:47.018
THESE KINDS OF STORIES.IT MAKES THEM
00:11:47.018 --> 00:11:47.952
IT MAKES THEMUNCOMFORTABLE.
00:11:47.952 --> 00:11:48.720
UNCOMFORTABLE.WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHING
00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:50.789
WE NEED TO DO EVERYTHINGWE CAN TO TELL THESE
00:11:50.789 --> 00:11:51.756
WE CAN TO TELL THESEAMAZING STORIES.
00:11:51.756 --> 00:11:52.724
AMAZING STORIES.I MEAN, THAT IS-- THAT'S
00:11:52.724 --> 00:11:53.758
I MEAN, THAT IS-- THAT'SEXTRAORDINARY.
00:11:53.758 --> 00:11:54.726
EXTRAORDINARY.WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?
00:11:54.726 --> 00:11:55.693
WHEN DID THAT HAPPEN?I ASSUME THAT WAS DURING
00:11:55.693 --> 00:11:57.295
I ASSUME THAT WAS DURINGTHE SOVIET TIMES?
00:11:57.295 --> 00:11:57.829
THE SOVIET TIMES?- TODD: THAT WAS DURING
00:11:57.829 --> 00:12:00.231
- TODD: THAT WAS DURINGTHE SOVIET TIMES IN THE 1960s.
00:12:00.231 --> 00:12:01.199
THE SOVIET TIMES IN THE 1960s.- ERIC: THE WICKEDNESS
00:12:01.199 --> 00:12:02.801
- ERIC: THE WICKEDNESSTHAT COMMUNIST REGIMES
00:12:02.801 --> 00:12:05.270
THAT COMMUNIST REGIMESBROUGHT TO CHRISTIANS, IN
00:12:05.270 --> 00:12:06.137
BROUGHT TO CHRISTIANS, INPARTICULAR, IT'S JUST
00:12:06.137 --> 00:12:08.039
PARTICULAR, IT'S JUSTANOTHER STORY THAT NEEDS
00:12:08.039 --> 00:12:09.407
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT
00:12:11.242 --> 00:12:12.043
WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUTCOMMUNISTS OR ABOUT
00:12:12.043 --> 00:12:13.678
COMMUNISTS OR ABOUTMARXISM, WHAT THEIR WORLD
00:12:13.678 --> 00:12:14.512
I KNOW THAT RICHARD WURMBRAND--
00:12:16.114 --> 00:12:17.582
I KNOW THAT RICHARD WURMBRAND--I CAN'T BELIEVE I HAD THE
00:12:17.582 --> 00:12:18.783
I CAN'T BELIEVE I HAD THEPRIVILEGE TO MEET HIM AND
00:12:18.783 --> 00:12:20.518
PRIVILEGE TO MEET HIM ANDSABINA, HIS WIFE, BEFORE
00:12:20.518 --> 00:12:24.222
SABINA, HIS WIFE, BEFORETHEY PASSED, OBVIOUSLY,
00:12:24.222 --> 00:12:24.756
THEY PASSED, OBVIOUSLY,BUT HE UNDERWENT
00:12:24.756 --> 00:12:25.323
BUT HE UNDERWENTUNSPEAKABLE HORRORS,
00:12:25.323 --> 00:12:26.424
UNSPEAKABLE HORRORS,AND HIS FAITH WAS JUST
00:12:26.424 --> 00:12:27.559
AND HIS FAITH WAS JUSTSO BEAUTIFUL.
00:12:27.559 --> 00:12:28.226
SO BEAUTIFUL.I HEARD HIM PREACH AT
00:12:28.226 --> 00:12:29.727
I HEARD HIM PREACH ATTIMES SQUARE CHURCH, HERE
00:12:29.727 --> 00:12:30.628
THE CHURCH FOUNDED BY
00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:33.164
THE CHURCH FOUNDED BYDAVID WILKERSON, WHERE I
00:12:33.164 --> 00:12:35.233
DAVID WILKERSON, WHERE IMET MY WIFE, AND HE
00:12:35.233 --> 00:12:37.168
MET MY WIFE, AND HESPOKE, AND I WAS JUST-- I
00:12:37.168 --> 00:12:38.570
SPOKE, AND I WAS JUST-- IWAS JUST OVER-OVERWHELMED
00:12:38.570 --> 00:12:39.838
WAS JUST OVER-OVERWHELMEDWITH THE POWER OF GOD IN
00:12:39.838 --> 00:12:41.506
WITH THE POWER OF GOD INHIS LIFE.
00:12:41.506 --> 00:12:42.440
HIS LIFE.IT'S A VERY RARE THING,
00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:43.441
IT'S A VERY RARE THING,AND SO, WHEN YOU CAPTURE
00:12:43.441 --> 00:12:44.976
IT JUST MAKES IT POSSIBLE
00:12:46.244 --> 00:12:47.178
IT JUST MAKES IT POSSIBLEFOR MORE PEOPLE TO
00:12:47.178 --> 00:12:48.012
FOR MORE PEOPLE TOEXPERIENCE IT, SO I'M
00:12:48.012 --> 00:12:49.647
EXPERIENCE IT, SO I'MASSUMING PEOPLE CAN GET
00:12:49.647 --> 00:12:51.182
ASSUMING PEOPLE CAN GETTHE BOOK EVERYWHERE, OR IS
00:12:51.182 --> 00:12:52.684
THE BOOK EVERYWHERE, OR ISTHERE-- SHOULD THEY GO TO
00:12:52.684 --> 00:12:53.585
- TODD: YOU CAN COME TO
00:12:54.652 --> 00:12:55.353
- TODD: YOU CAN COME TOPERSECUTION.COM, WHICH IS
00:12:55.353 --> 00:12:56.788
PERSECUTION.COM, WHICH ISTHE MAIN VOM WEBSITE.
00:12:56.788 --> 00:12:57.555
THE MAIN VOM WEBSITE.YOU CAN BUY IT, THOUGH,
00:12:57.555 --> 00:12:58.223
YOU CAN BUY IT, THOUGH,WHEREVER.
00:12:58.223 --> 00:12:58.790
WHEREVER.WHEREVER BOOKS ARE SOLD,
00:12:58.790 --> 00:12:59.424
WHEREVER BOOKS ARE SOLD,IT IS AVAILABLE.
00:12:59.424 --> 00:13:01.226
IT IS AVAILABLE.AND I AGREE WITH YOU, AND
00:13:01.226 --> 00:13:01.759
AND I AGREE WITH YOU, ANDI THINK ONE OF THE THINGS
00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:03.428
I THINK ONE OF THE THINGSTHAT HAPPENS AS WE READ
00:13:03.428 --> 00:13:05.230
THAT HAPPENS AS WE READTHESE STORIES IS WE PUT
00:13:05.230 --> 00:13:06.931
THESE STORIES IS WE PUTOURSELVES IN THE STORY:
00:13:06.931 --> 00:13:07.966
OURSELVES IN THE STORY:"OKAY, WHAT WOULD I DO IN
00:13:07.966 --> 00:13:10.802
WHAT WOULD I DO IF THEY
00:13:11.903 --> 00:13:12.871
WHAT WOULD I DO IF THEYSAID, 'DENY YOUR FAITH OR
00:13:12.871 --> 00:13:14.205
SAID, 'DENY YOUR FAITH ORBE SHOT'?
00:13:14.205 --> 00:13:15.707
BE SHOT'?HOW WOULD I RESPOND TO THAT?"
00:13:15.707 --> 00:13:17.375
HOW WOULD I RESPOND TO THAT?"AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK
00:13:17.375 --> 00:13:18.509
AND, YOU KNOW, I THINKTHAT'S A FAITH-BUILDING
00:13:18.509 --> 00:13:19.644
THAT'S A FAITH-BUILDINGQUESTION BECAUSE I THINK
00:13:19.644 --> 00:13:20.445
QUESTION BECAUSE I THINKMOST OF US, IF WE'RE BEING
00:13:20.445 --> 00:13:21.579
WE SAY, "BOY, I'M NOT 100%
00:13:22.881 --> 00:13:23.681
WE SAY, "BOY, I'M NOT 100%SURE WHAT WOULD I DO, SO I
00:13:23.681 --> 00:13:25.216
SURE WHAT WOULD I DO, SO INEED TO PRAY.
00:13:25.216 --> 00:13:25.650
NEED TO PRAY.I NEED TO GO TO THE
00:13:25.650 --> 00:13:27.952
I NEED TO GO TO THESCRIPTURES.
00:13:27.952 --> 00:13:28.786
SCRIPTURES.I NEED TO STRENGTHEN MY
00:13:28.786 --> 00:13:29.387
I NEED TO STRENGTHEN MYOWN FAITH."
00:13:29.387 --> 00:13:31.189
OWN FAITH."SO I THINK THESE STORIES
00:13:31.189 --> 00:13:32.690
SO I THINK THESE STORIESHAVE THAT IMPACT ON
00:13:32.690 --> 00:13:33.791
HAVE THAT IMPACT ONUS OF STRENGTHENING OUR
00:13:33.791 --> 00:13:35.126
US OF STRENGTHENING OURFAITH AS WE ASK THAT
00:13:35.126 --> 00:13:36.527
FAITH AS WE ASK THATQUESTION AND AS WE
00:13:36.527 --> 00:13:37.528
QUESTION AND AS WETRY TO HONESTLY
00:13:37.528 --> 00:13:38.863
"LORD, HELP ME TO HAVE THE
00:13:40.231 --> 00:13:41.399
"LORD, HELP ME TO HAVE THERIGHT ANSWER.
00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:42.166
RIGHT ANSWER.HELP ME TO BE ABLE TO
00:13:42.166 --> 00:13:43.134
HELP ME TO BE ABLE TOSTAND NO MATTER WHAT THE
00:13:43.134 --> 00:13:44.669
- ERIC: I THINK THAT THE
00:13:46.237 --> 00:13:47.672
- ERIC: I THINK THAT THECOURAGE OF MANY CHRISTIANS
00:13:47.672 --> 00:13:48.907
COURAGE OF MANY CHRISTIANSIN THE WEST TODAY IS NOT
00:13:48.907 --> 00:13:50.708
IN THE WEST TODAY IS NOTSTRONG, WHICH MEANS THAT
00:13:50.708 --> 00:13:52.243
STRONG, WHICH MEANS THATOUR FAITH IS NOT STRONG
00:13:52.243 --> 00:13:52.810
OUR FAITH IS NOT STRONGBECAUSE, IF WE KNOW THESE
00:13:52.810 --> 00:13:54.312
BECAUSE, IF WE KNOW THESETHINGS, IF WE KNOW JESUS
00:13:54.312 --> 00:13:58.716
THINGS, IF WE KNOW JESUSHAS ACTUALLY DEFEATED DEATH--
00:13:58.716 --> 00:13:59.450
HAS ACTUALLY DEFEATED DEATH--IT'S NOT A NICE IDEA,
00:13:59.450 --> 00:14:00.485
IT'S NOT A NICE IDEA,IT'S TRUE--
00:14:00.485 --> 00:14:00.985
IT'S TRUE--WE'D LIVE DIFFERENTLY.
00:14:00.985 --> 00:14:01.686
WE'D LIVE DIFFERENTLY.BONHOEFFER BELIEVED THAT A
00:14:01.686 --> 00:14:03.154
BONHOEFFER BELIEVED THAT ALOT OF THE PEOPLE-- OR ALL
00:14:03.154 --> 00:14:04.255
LOT OF THE PEOPLE-- OR ALLTHE PEOPLE IN THE BOOK,
00:14:04.255 --> 00:14:05.223
THE PEOPLE IN THE BOOK,"JESUS FREAKS," BELIEVE
00:14:05.223 --> 00:14:07.892
IF WE WANT TO SHINE FOR THE
00:14:11.262 --> 00:14:12.497
IF WE WANT TO SHINE FOR THEKINGDOM, WE NEED TO
00:14:12.497 --> 00:14:13.464
KINGDOM, WE NEED TOACQUAINT OURSELVES WITH
00:14:13.464 --> 00:14:14.065
ACQUAINT OURSELVES WITHTHESE STORIES SO THAT OUR
00:14:14.065 --> 00:14:15.533
THESE STORIES SO THAT OURFAITH IS INCREASED, AND,
00:14:15.533 --> 00:14:16.501
FAITH IS INCREASED, AND,TO ME, IT'S MAGIC.
00:14:16.501 --> 00:14:17.402
TO ME, IT'S MAGIC.WHEN YOU READ THESE
00:14:17.402 --> 00:14:18.903
WHEN YOU READ THESESTORIES, YOUR FAITH
00:14:18.903 --> 00:14:19.570
STORIES, YOUR FAITHINCREASES.
00:14:19.570 --> 00:14:20.305
IT'S GOD'S WAY OF
00:14:21.806 --> 00:14:24.142
IT'S GOD'S WAY OFCOMMUNICATING WITH US
00:14:24.142 --> 00:14:25.443
COMMUNICATING WITH USTHROUGH OTHER PEOPLE,
00:14:25.443 --> 00:14:26.911
THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE,THROUGH STORIES ALL THE TIME.
00:14:26.911 --> 00:14:29.213
THROUGH STORIES ALL THE TIME.I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT IS
00:14:29.213 --> 00:14:30.915
I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT ISEXACTLY, BUT IT HAPPENS.
00:14:30.915 --> 00:14:32.483
EXACTLY, BUT IT HAPPENS.WHEN YOU READ THESE
00:14:32.483 --> 00:14:33.785
WHEN YOU READ THESESTORIES, SOMETHING HAPPENS
00:14:33.785 --> 00:14:35.386
STORIES, SOMETHING HAPPENSINSIDE YOU, AND SO I SAY
00:14:35.386 --> 00:14:36.187
INSIDE YOU, AND SO I SAYTHIS TO PEOPLE.
00:14:36.187 --> 00:14:36.754
THIS TO PEOPLE.I CAN'T THINK OF AN EASIER
00:14:36.754 --> 00:14:38.389
I CAN'T THINK OF AN EASIERWAY TO INCREASE YOUR
00:14:38.389 --> 00:14:39.324
WAY TO INCREASE YOURFAITH, TO INCREASE YOUR
00:14:39.324 --> 00:14:42.560
FAITH, TO INCREASE YOURABILITY TO STAND IN THE
00:14:42.560 --> 00:14:43.828
ABILITY TO STAND IN THEFACE OF WHAT ARE EXTREMELY
00:14:43.828 --> 00:14:46.230
FACE OF WHAT ARE EXTREMELYMINOR DIFFICULTIES
00:14:46.230 --> 00:14:47.432
MINOR DIFFICULTIESCOMPARED TO WHAT THESE
00:14:47.432 --> 00:14:48.399
BUT, NONETHELESS, WE NEED
00:14:49.567 --> 00:14:51.035
BUT, NONETHELESS, WE NEEDTO STAND NOW FOR WHAT IS
00:14:51.035 --> 00:14:52.203
TO STAND NOW FOR WHAT ISRIGHT.
00:14:52.203 --> 00:14:53.237
RIGHT.WE SHOULDN'T JUST WAIT
00:14:53.237 --> 00:14:54.772
WE SHOULDN'T JUST WAITTILL WE'RE ABOUT TO BE
00:14:54.772 --> 00:14:56.240
TILL WE'RE ABOUT TO BETHROWN TO THE DOGS.
00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:57.342
THROWN TO THE DOGS.TODAY, EVERY DAY, WE HAVE
00:14:57.342 --> 00:14:58.443
TODAY, EVERY DAY, WE HAVECHOICES THAT WE CAN MAKE
00:14:58.443 --> 00:14:59.944
CHOICES THAT WE CAN MAKEIN WHAT WE SAY AND HOW WE
00:14:59.944 --> 00:15:01.612
SO HOW MANY STORIES ARE IN
00:15:03.214 --> 00:15:05.883
SO HOW MANY STORIES ARE INTHIS BOOK?
00:15:05.883 --> 00:15:06.451
THIS BOOK?- TODD: OOH, THAT IS A
00:15:06.451 --> 00:15:07.919
- TODD: OOH, THAT IS AGOOD QUESTION, AND I
00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:08.853
GOOD QUESTION, AND ISHOULD'VE HAD THAT.
00:15:08.853 --> 00:15:09.387
SHOULD'VE HAD THAT.- ERIC: I MEAN, IT'S A
00:15:09.387 --> 00:15:09.988
- ERIC: I MEAN, IT'S ALOT, I GUESS.
00:15:09.988 --> 00:15:10.755
LOT, I GUESS.- TODD: I WANNA SAY IT'S
00:15:10.755 --> 00:15:12.724
- TODD: I WANNA SAY IT'S150-ISH.
00:15:12.724 --> 00:15:13.257
150-ISH.- ERIC: WOW, SOUNDS LIKE
00:15:13.257 --> 00:15:14.258
- ERIC: WOW, SOUNDS LIKEA BIG BOOK.
00:15:14.258 --> 00:15:17.495
A BIG BOOK.LOOK, AGAIN, I CAN'T THINK
00:15:17.495 --> 00:15:19.197
LOOK, AGAIN, I CAN'T THINKOF WHAT A WONDERFUL THING
00:15:19.197 --> 00:15:20.631
OF WHAT A WONDERFUL THINGTO READ EVERY DAY AS PART
00:15:20.631 --> 00:15:21.766
TO READ EVERY DAY AS PARTOF YOUR DEVOTION, OR IT'S
00:15:21.766 --> 00:15:24.235
OF YOUR DEVOTION, OR IT'SJUST-- THERE'S JUST
00:15:24.235 --> 00:15:25.169
JUST-- THERE'S JUSTNOTHING MORE BEAUTIFUL
00:15:25.169 --> 00:15:27.171
AND IT JUST DOESN'T GET
00:15:30.108 --> 00:15:31.776
AND IT JUST DOESN'T GETMORE REAL THAN THIS.
00:15:31.776 --> 00:15:33.111
MORE REAL THAN THIS.I HAVE BEEN A FAN OF
00:15:33.111 --> 00:15:34.245
I HAVE BEEN A FAN OFVOICE OF THE MARTYRS SINCE
00:15:34.245 --> 00:15:37.315
SINCE I WAS AWARE OF THE
00:15:38.883 --> 00:15:40.985
SINCE I WAS AWARE OF THEWORK THAT YOU ALL ARE
00:15:40.985 --> 00:15:41.552
WORK THAT YOU ALL AREDOING, SO I'M JUST EXCITED
00:15:41.552 --> 00:15:42.053
DOING, SO I'M JUST EXCITEDTHAT YOU GUYS EXIST.
00:15:42.053 --> 00:15:42.754
THAT YOU GUYS EXIST.PERSECUTION.COM, THAT'S A
00:15:42.754 --> 00:15:43.488
PERSECUTION.COM, THAT'S APRETTY GOOD URL.
00:15:43.488 --> 00:15:44.155
PRETTY GOOD URL.I THINK YOU SHOULD STICK
00:15:44.155 --> 00:15:45.490
I THINK YOU SHOULD STICKWITH THAT.
00:15:45.490 --> 00:15:46.657
BRAND-NEW BOOK.
00:15:47.992 --> 00:15:49.527
BRAND-NEW BOOK.I HOPE EVERYBODY LISTENING
00:15:49.527 --> 00:15:51.029
I REALLY THINK THAT THIS
00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:53.998
I REALLY THINK THAT THISIS THE KIND OF THING-- IT
00:15:53.998 --> 00:15:54.599
IS THE KIND OF THING-- ITMAKES A AMAZING GIFT FOR
00:15:54.599 --> 00:15:55.700
MAKES A AMAZING GIFT FORPEOPLE BECAUSE, IF PEOPLE
00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:58.202
PEOPLE BECAUSE, IF PEOPLESTART READING THESE
00:15:58.202 --> 00:15:59.237
START READING THESESTORIES, THERE'S NO WAY
00:15:59.237 --> 00:16:01.939
STORIES, THERE'S NO WAYYOU'RE GONNA BE THE SAME.
00:16:01.939 --> 00:16:02.507
YOU'RE GONNA BE THE SAME.IT'S KIND OF THAT SIMPLE,
00:16:02.507 --> 00:16:04.475
TODD NETTLETON, REALLY
00:16:05.777 --> 00:16:06.811
TODD NETTLETON, REALLYGRATEFUL FOR WHAT YOU DO
00:16:06.811 --> 00:16:08.679
GRATEFUL FOR WHAT YOU DOAND FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.
00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:09.680
AND FOR YOUR TIME TODAY.GOD BLESS YOU.
00:16:09.680 --> 00:16:10.782
GOD BLESS YOU.THANK YOU SO MUCH.
00:16:10.782 --> 00:16:11.315
THANK YOU SO MUCH.- TODD: THANKS SO MUCH
00:16:11.315 --> 00:16:11.783
- TODD: THANKS SO MUCHFOR HAVING ME.
00:16:11.783 --> 00:16:12.984
FOR HAVING ME.IT'S ALWAYS FUN.
00:16:12.984 --> 00:16:15.003
FOR HAVING ME.IT'S ALWAYS FUN.
00:16:15.003 --> 00:16:16.023
- ERIC: HEY THERE, FOLKS,
00:16:17.324 --> 00:16:18.092
- ERIC: HEY THERE, FOLKS,I'M TALKING WITH
00:16:18.092 --> 00:16:20.327
I'M TALKING WITHROBERT ORLANDO, WHO'S BEEN
00:16:20.327 --> 00:16:20.928
ROBERT ORLANDO, WHO'S BEENON THIS PROGRAM BEFORE.
00:16:20.928 --> 00:16:21.662
ON THIS PROGRAM BEFORE.HE IS A DOCUMENTARY
00:16:21.662 --> 00:16:24.732
HE IS A DOCUMENTARYFILMMAKER.
00:16:24.732 --> 00:16:25.266
FILMMAKER.HE'S A FILMMAKER AND AN
00:16:25.266 --> 00:16:26.534
THE NEW BOOK OUT IS CALLED
00:16:27.601 --> 00:16:30.738
THE NEW BOOK OUT IS CALLED"THE TRAGEDY OF PATTON."
00:16:30.738 --> 00:16:31.639
"THE TRAGEDY OF PATTON."IT CAME OUT ON VETERANS DAY.
00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:33.374
IT CAME OUT ON VETERANS DAY.ROBERT ORLANDO, WELCOME BACK.
00:16:33.374 --> 00:16:34.475
ROBERT ORLANDO, WELCOME BACK.- ROBERT: GREAT TO BE
00:16:34.475 --> 00:16:36.277
- ERIC: LISTEN, "THE
00:16:38.546 --> 00:16:39.447
VERY PROVOCATIVE TITLE.
00:16:40.514 --> 00:16:41.015
VERY PROVOCATIVE TITLE.SO BEFORE WE GET INTO
00:16:41.015 --> 00:16:43.384
WHAT IS YOUR THESIS?
00:16:45.086 --> 00:16:45.586
WHAT IS YOUR THESIS?WHY DID YOU TITLE THE
00:16:45.586 --> 00:16:46.220
WHY DID YOU TITLE THEBOOK, "THE TRAGEDY OF PATTON"?
00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:46.720
BOOK, "THE TRAGEDY OF PATTON"?AND, LISTEN, THERE ARE
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:47.154
AND, LISTEN, THERE ARESOME YOUNG PEOPLE
00:16:47.154 --> 00:16:48.189
SOME YOUNG PEOPLELISTENING, WHO HAVE NO
00:16:48.189 --> 00:16:51.659
LISTENING, WHO HAVE NOIDEA WHO PATTON IS, OKAY?
00:16:51.659 --> 00:16:52.827
IDEA WHO PATTON IS, OKAY?THEY'VE NEVER HEARD OF
00:16:52.827 --> 00:16:53.661
THEY'VE NEVER HEARD OFLINCOLN, NEVER HEARD OF
00:16:53.661 --> 00:16:54.295
LINCOLN, NEVER HEARD OFWASHINGTON.
00:16:54.295 --> 00:16:55.129
WASHINGTON.THEY WERE JUST BORN A FEW
00:16:55.129 --> 00:16:56.063
THEY WERE JUST BORN A FEWYEARS AGO.
00:16:56.063 --> 00:16:56.764
YEARS AGO.THEY'RE NOT RESPONSIBLE
00:16:56.764 --> 00:16:57.832
SO CAN YOU TELL MY
00:16:59.733 --> 00:17:00.301
SO CAN YOU TELL MYAUDIENCE WHO DOESN'T KNOW
00:17:00.301 --> 00:17:01.268
AUDIENCE WHO DOESN'T KNOWWHO PATTON IS, WHO WAS
00:17:01.268 --> 00:17:03.771
- ROBERT: HE WAS THE
00:17:04.939 --> 00:17:05.706
- ROBERT: HE WAS THELEADING AND MOST
00:17:05.706 --> 00:17:06.307
LEADING AND MOSTAGGRESSIVE, MOST
00:17:06.307 --> 00:17:06.974
AGGRESSIVE, MOSTACCOMPLISHED GENERAL OF
00:17:06.974 --> 00:17:08.342
ACCOMPLISHED GENERAL OFWORLD WAR II.
00:17:08.342 --> 00:17:10.044
WORLD WAR II.HE WAS BROUGHT IN LATE.
00:17:10.044 --> 00:17:11.112
HE WAS BROUGHT IN LATE.HE WAS CONTROVERSIAL, BUT
00:17:11.112 --> 00:17:12.246
HE WAS CONTROVERSIAL, BUTHE WOUND UP COVERING MOST
00:17:12.246 --> 00:17:13.881
HE WOUND UP COVERING MOSTOF THE GROUND THAT INVADED
00:17:13.881 --> 00:17:15.149
HE WENT TO FRANCE, SWEPT
00:17:16.417 --> 00:17:17.084
HE WENT TO FRANCE, SWEPTACROSS FRANCE.
00:17:17.084 --> 00:17:17.785
ACROSS FRANCE.HE WENT INTO GERMANY AT
00:17:17.785 --> 00:17:18.652
HE WENT INTO GERMANY ATTHE END OF THE WAR, AND
00:17:18.652 --> 00:17:19.854
THE END OF THE WAR, ANDTHEN HE WAS LEFT TO GOVERN
00:17:19.854 --> 00:17:21.122
THEN HE WAS LEFT TO GOVERNIN GERMANY AFTER THE WAR,
00:17:21.122 --> 00:17:23.924
IN GERMANY AFTER THE WAR,AND HE WAS VERY OPPOSED TO
00:17:23.924 --> 00:17:24.959
AND HE WAS VERY OPPOSED TOTHE RUSSIAN ALLIANCE WE
00:17:24.959 --> 00:17:25.593
THE RUSSIAN ALLIANCE WEHAD AT THE TIME, AND FOR THAT,
00:17:25.593 --> 00:17:28.963
HAD AT THE TIME, AND FOR THAT,HE WAS A CONTROVERSIAL FIGURE,
00:17:28.963 --> 00:17:30.531
HE WAS A CONTROVERSIAL FIGURE,BUT ALSO AT THE END OF HIS
00:17:30.531 --> 00:17:33.267
BUT ALSO AT THE END OF HISLIFE, DECEMBER 9TH, 1945,
00:17:33.267 --> 00:17:34.702
LIFE, DECEMBER 9TH, 1945,HE WAS DRIVING TO GO ON A
00:17:34.702 --> 00:17:35.202
HE WAS DRIVING TO GO ON APHEASANT HUNT AND HAD AN
00:17:35.202 --> 00:17:37.138
PHEASANT HUNT AND HAD ANACCIDENT AND, WITH THAT
00:17:37.138 --> 00:17:38.205
ACCIDENT AND, WITH THATACCIDENT, LATER WOUND UP
00:17:38.205 --> 00:17:39.106
ACCIDENT, LATER WOUND UPIN THE HOSPITAL AND
00:17:39.106 --> 00:17:40.608
IN THE HOSPITAL ANDULTIMATELY DIED 12 DAYS LATER.
00:17:40.608 --> 00:17:41.942
ULTIMATELY DIED 12 DAYS LATER.MANY BELIEVE HE WAS
00:17:41.942 --> 00:17:43.944
MANY BELIEVE HE WASACTUALLY ASSASSINATED.
00:17:43.944 --> 00:17:44.712
ACTUALLY ASSASSINATED.- ERIC: IF YOU DON'T MIND
00:17:44.712 --> 00:17:45.579
- ERIC: IF YOU DON'T MINDMY ASKING YOU, SINCE
00:17:45.579 --> 00:17:46.380
MY ASKING YOU, SINCEYOU'VE WRITTEN THE BOOK,
00:17:46.380 --> 00:17:47.715
YOU'VE WRITTEN THE BOOK,THIS IS ONLY A FEW MONTHS
00:17:47.715 --> 00:17:48.816
HE THINKS NOW HE CAN
00:17:49.884 --> 00:17:50.584
HE THINKS NOW HE CANRETIRE.
00:17:50.584 --> 00:17:51.118
WHERE WAS HE WHEN THIS
00:17:54.588 --> 00:17:56.490
WHERE WAS HE WHEN THISACCIDENT OCCURRED?
00:17:56.490 --> 00:17:57.424
ACCIDENT OCCURRED?- ROBERT: HE WAS IN BAVARIA.
00:17:57.424 --> 00:17:57.958
- ROBERT: HE WAS IN BAVARIA.SO HE WAS SOMEWHERE
00:17:57.958 --> 00:18:01.762
SO HE WAS SOMEWHEREOUTSIDE OF MANNHEIM, AND
00:18:01.762 --> 00:18:02.563
OUTSIDE OF MANNHEIM, ANDHE WAS JUST-- A FRIEND OF
00:18:02.563 --> 00:18:04.131
HE WAS JUST-- A FRIEND OFHIS, A GENERAL FRIEND OF
00:18:04.131 --> 00:18:04.865
HIS, A GENERAL FRIEND OFHIS SAID, "WOULD YOU LIKE
00:18:04.865 --> 00:18:07.067
HIS SAID, "WOULD YOU LIKETO GO FOR A PHEASANT TODAY?"
00:18:07.067 --> 00:18:07.668
TO GO FOR A PHEASANT TODAY?"BECAUSE EVERYONE WAS
00:18:07.668 --> 00:18:08.202
BECAUSE EVERYONE WASDEPRESSED.
00:18:08.202 --> 00:18:08.802
DEPRESSED.HE WAS DEPRESSED AFTER THE
00:18:08.802 --> 00:18:09.737
HE WAS DEPRESSED AFTER THEWAR BECAUSE HE COULDN'T
00:18:09.737 --> 00:18:10.838
WAR BECAUSE HE COULDN'TSIT STILL ONCE THE BATTLE
00:18:10.838 --> 00:18:12.239
SIT STILL ONCE THE BATTLESTOPPED, AND HE HAD BEEN
00:18:12.239 --> 00:18:13.541
STOPPED, AND HE HAD BEENDEMOTED SO MANY TIMES.
00:18:13.541 --> 00:18:14.975
HE WAS CORNERED AT THE
00:18:17.077 --> 00:18:18.612
HE WAS CORNERED AT THETIME, SO GENERAL GAY, WHO
00:18:18.612 --> 00:18:19.246
TIME, SO GENERAL GAY, WHOWAS A BUDDY OF HIS FOR
00:18:19.246 --> 00:18:20.047
"YOU WANNA GO FOR A
00:18:21.282 --> 00:18:22.183
"YOU WANNA GO FOR APHEASANT HUNT?"
00:18:22.183 --> 00:18:23.918
PHEASANT HUNT?"AND THEY DID, AND THEY
00:18:23.918 --> 00:18:25.352
AND THEY DID, AND THEYWOUND UP GETTING CAUGHT AT
00:18:25.352 --> 00:18:26.187
WHERE THEY HAD TO LET THE
00:18:27.354 --> 00:18:27.922
WHERE THEY HAD TO LET THETRAIN GO BY, AND WHEN THEY
00:18:27.922 --> 00:18:28.856
TRAIN GO BY, AND WHEN THEYPULLED OUT, A
00:18:28.856 --> 00:18:29.423
PULLED OUT, ATWO-AND-A-HALF-TON TRUCK,
00:18:29.423 --> 00:18:31.025
TWO-AND-A-HALF-TON TRUCK,AN ARMORED VEHICLE,
00:18:31.025 --> 00:18:31.992
AN ARMORED VEHICLE,CRASHED INTO THEM AND
00:18:31.992 --> 00:18:33.561
AND THEN HE HAD TO GO TO
00:18:35.196 --> 00:18:36.564
AND THEN HE HAD TO GO TOTHE HOSPITAL FOR ANOTHER
00:18:36.564 --> 00:18:37.765
THE HOSPITAL FOR ANOTHER12 DAYS AND DIED BECAUSE
00:18:37.765 --> 00:18:38.432
12 DAYS AND DIED BECAUSEHE COULDN'T BREATHE ANYMORE.
00:18:38.432 --> 00:18:39.300
HE COULDN'T BREATHE ANYMORE.- ERIC: YOU DIDN'T ANSWER
00:18:39.300 --> 00:18:40.634
- ERIC: YOU DIDN'T ANSWERMY QUESTION ABOUT WHY YOU
00:18:40.634 --> 00:18:42.269
MY QUESTION ABOUT WHY YOUTITLED THE BOOK,
00:18:42.269 --> 00:18:44.071
- ROBERT: SO "THE
00:18:45.206 --> 00:18:46.106
- ROBERT: SO "THETRAGEDY OF PATTON" IS
00:18:46.106 --> 00:18:46.941
TRAGEDY OF PATTON" ISBECAUSE HE WAS BORN IN THE
00:18:46.941 --> 00:18:50.911
AND HIS WHOLE LIFE-- HE
00:18:53.214 --> 00:18:54.381
AND HIS WHOLE LIFE-- HEWAS AN INSECURE YOUNGER
00:18:54.381 --> 00:18:54.949
WAS AN INSECURE YOUNGERMAN, AND HE ALWAYS FOUND
00:18:54.949 --> 00:18:55.649
MAN, AND HE ALWAYS FOUNDHIS MEANING AND HIS
00:18:55.649 --> 00:18:57.051
HIS MEANING AND HISDESTINY IN BEING A GREAT
00:18:57.051 --> 00:18:57.651
DESTINY IN BEING A GREATGENERAL, ONE THAT COULD BE
00:18:57.651 --> 00:18:58.953
GENERAL, ONE THAT COULD BECOMPARED WITH CAESAR AND
00:18:58.953 --> 00:19:00.554
COMPARED WITH CAESAR ANDWITH ALEXANDER AND
00:19:00.554 --> 00:19:01.322
WITH ALEXANDER ANDEVERYTHING, AND AT THE
00:19:01.322 --> 00:19:02.923
EVERYTHING, AND AT THEEND, HE MEASURED HIMSELF
00:19:02.923 --> 00:19:04.959
END, HE MEASURED HIMSELFON HIS DEATHBED WHETHER HE
00:19:04.959 --> 00:19:06.293
ON HIS DEATHBED WHETHER HECOULD ULTIMATELY FULFILL
00:19:06.293 --> 00:19:06.994
COULD ULTIMATELY FULFILLHIS DESTINY AND BE IN THE
00:19:06.994 --> 00:19:08.729
AND THE TRAGEDY WAS
00:19:10.231 --> 00:19:11.398
AND THE TRAGEDY WASULTIMATELY HE DIED IN A
00:19:11.398 --> 00:19:12.533
ULTIMATELY HE DIED IN ACAR ACCIDENT THAT LED TO A
00:19:12.533 --> 00:19:14.235
CAR ACCIDENT THAT LED TO AHOSPITAL VISIT, AND THEN
00:19:14.235 --> 00:19:15.302
HOSPITAL VISIT, AND THENHE WAS NEVER SURE AT
00:19:15.302 --> 00:19:16.971
HE WAS NEVER SURE ATTHE END WHETHER HE
00:19:16.971 --> 00:19:18.205
THE END WHETHER HEULTIMATELY FULFILLED
00:19:18.205 --> 00:19:20.140
- ERIC: HE WOULD'VE BEEN
00:19:21.208 --> 00:19:22.209
- ERIC: HE WOULD'VE BEENPREFERRED TO BE
00:19:22.209 --> 00:19:23.577
PREFERRED TO BEDECAPITATED WITH A SABER
00:19:23.577 --> 00:19:25.412
DECAPITATED WITH A SABERHELD BY A HUSSAR ON A
00:19:25.412 --> 00:19:26.914
HELD BY A HUSSAR ON AHORSE, OBVIOUSLY, AND HE
00:19:26.914 --> 00:19:27.982
HORSE, OBVIOUSLY, AND HEREALLY DIDN'T FAIL.
00:19:27.982 --> 00:19:28.549
I AM SORRY, WE'RE OUT OF
00:19:30.551 --> 00:19:31.051
I AM SORRY, WE'RE OUT OFTIME.
00:19:31.051 --> 00:19:33.988
TIME.ROBERT, WE WILL HAVE TO
00:19:33.988 --> 00:19:34.989
ROBERT, WE WILL HAVE TOHAVE YOU BACK TO TALK MORE
00:19:34.989 --> 00:19:35.589
HAVE YOU BACK TO TALK MOREABOUT PATTON.
00:19:35.589 --> 00:19:36.890
ABOUT PATTON.YOU'VE GOT A LOT MORE
00:19:36.890 --> 00:19:37.658
YOU'VE GOT A LOT MOREINFORMATION IN YOUR
00:19:37.658 --> 00:19:38.726
INFORMATION IN YOURTREASURE TROVE ON THIS AND
00:19:38.726 --> 00:19:39.827
TREASURE TROVE ON THIS ANDOTHER SUBJECTS, SO WE WILL
00:19:39.827 --> 00:19:41.762
OTHER SUBJECTS, SO WE WILLHAVE YOU BACK JUST TO TALK
00:19:41.762 --> 00:19:44.565
HAVE YOU BACK JUST TO TALKABOUT PATTON.
00:19:44.565 --> 00:19:45.032
ABOUT PATTON.I APPRECIATE YOU.
00:19:45.032 --> 00:19:45.532
I APPRECIATE YOU.FOLKS, THE BOOK IS
00:19:45.532 --> 00:19:47.468
THE FILM IS "SILENCE PATTON."
00:19:48.802 --> 00:19:49.203
THE FILM IS "SILENCE PATTON."YOU CAN GO TO
00:19:49.203 --> 00:19:50.571
YOU CAN GO TOSILENCEPATTON.COM.
00:19:50.571 --> 00:19:51.138
SILENCEPATTON.COM.AND, ROBERT, AGAIN, THANK
00:19:51.138 --> 00:19:52.106
AND, ROBERT, AGAIN, THANKYOU SO MUCH.
00:19:52.106 --> 00:19:53.140
YOU SO MUCH.- ROBERT: THANK YOU, ERIC.
00:19:53.140 --> 00:19:56.944
- ROBERT: THANK YOU, ERIC.I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.
00:19:56.944 --> 00:20:02.416
I REALLY APPRECIATE IT.[MUSIC]
00:20:02.416 --> 00:20:03.150
[MUSIC]- MALE NARRATOR: DECEMBER
00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:05.519
- MALE NARRATOR: DECEMBER9TH, 1945, SEVEN MONTHS
00:20:05.519 --> 00:20:08.789
9TH, 1945, SEVEN MONTHSSINCE THE END OF THE WAR
00:20:08.789 --> 00:20:11.258
SINCE THE END OF THE WARIN EUROPE, ON A WAR-TORN,
00:20:11.258 --> 00:20:12.226
IN EUROPE, ON A WAR-TORN,TWO-LANE HIGHWAY IN
00:20:12.226 --> 00:20:13.327
TWO-LANE HIGHWAY INMANNHEIM, GERMANY, THE
00:20:13.327 --> 00:20:15.229
MANNHEIM, GERMANY, THEMOST FORMIDABLE U.S.
00:20:15.229 --> 00:20:16.263
MOST FORMIDABLE U.S.GENERAL OF THE SECOND
00:20:16.263 --> 00:20:18.365
GENERAL OF THE SECONDWORLD WAR,
00:20:18.365 --> 00:20:19.300
WORLD WAR,GENERAL GEORGE S. PATTON
00:20:19.300 --> 00:20:21.535
GENERAL GEORGE S. PATTONSUSTAINS LIFE-THREATENING
00:20:21.535 --> 00:20:22.269
SUSTAINS LIFE-THREATENINGINJURIES WHEN A
00:20:22.269 --> 00:20:23.337
INJURIES WHEN ATWO-TON ARMY TRUCK
00:20:23.337 --> 00:20:24.972
TWO-TON ARMY TRUCKCRUSHES HIS CADILLAC SEDAN ON
00:20:24.972 --> 00:20:26.273
CRUSHES HIS CADILLAC SEDAN ONTHE EVE OF HIS DEPARTURE
00:20:26.273 --> 00:20:28.809
THE EVE OF HIS DEPARTUREFOR THE U.S.
00:20:28.809 --> 00:20:30.544
FOR THE U.S.[SIRENS]
00:20:30.544 --> 00:20:31.312
[SIRENS][MUSIC]
00:20:31.312 --> 00:20:31.979
[MUSIC]- NARRATOR: HE IS UNABLE
00:20:31.979 --> 00:20:33.681
- NARRATOR: HE IS UNABLETO MOVE FROM THE NECK DOWN.
00:20:33.681 --> 00:20:34.515
TO MOVE FROM THE NECK DOWN.THE OTHER OCCUPANTS OF THE
00:20:34.515 --> 00:20:35.749
THE OTHER OCCUPANTS OF THEVEHICLE WALK AWAY FROM THE
00:20:35.749 --> 00:20:37.618
VEHICLE WALK AWAY FROM THEACCIDENT LARGELY UNSCATHED,
00:20:37.618 --> 00:20:40.954
ACCIDENT LARGELY UNSCATHED,BUT OLD BLOOD AND GUTS
00:20:40.954 --> 00:20:41.522
BUT OLD BLOOD AND GUTSIS LEFT TO CLING TO LIFE
00:20:41.522 --> 00:20:45.259
IS LEFT TO CLING TO LIFEIN A HEIDELBERG HOSPITAL.
00:20:45.259 --> 00:21:00.040
IN A HEIDELBERG HOSPITAL.[MUSIC]
00:21:00.040 --> 00:21:00.607
[MUSIC]- MALE: SO GENERAL PATTON
00:21:00.607 --> 00:21:01.542
- MALE: SO GENERAL PATTONWAS ACTUALLY PLANNING ON
00:21:01.542 --> 00:21:03.610
WAS ACTUALLY PLANNING ONCOMING HOME AND TELLING
00:21:03.610 --> 00:21:04.545
COMING HOME AND TELLINGTHE TRUTH ABOUT WHAT
00:21:04.545 --> 00:21:05.612
THE TRUTH ABOUT WHATHAPPENED OVER THERE AND
00:21:05.612 --> 00:21:06.347
HAPPENED OVER THERE ANDALL OF THE BAD DECISIONS
00:21:06.347 --> 00:21:08.215
ALL OF THE BAD DECISIONSTHAT WERE MADE,
00:21:08.215 --> 00:21:10.417
THAT WERE MADE,AND EISENHOWER AND BRADLEY,
00:21:10.417 --> 00:21:10.984
AND EISENHOWER AND BRADLEY,WELL, THEY WERE ALL SCARED
00:21:10.984 --> 00:21:11.852
WELL, THEY WERE ALL SCAREDTHAT PATTON WAS GONNA TELL
00:21:11.852 --> 00:21:13.120
THAT PATTON WAS GONNA TELLTHE TRUTH AND ALL THE
00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:14.054
THE TRUTH AND ALL THETHINGS THAT THEY DID WRONG
00:21:14.054 --> 00:21:17.658
THINGS THAT THEY DID WRONGWERE GONNA COME OUT.
00:21:17.658 --> 00:21:18.125
WERE GONNA COME OUT.- MALE: ONE POINT,
00:21:18.125 --> 00:21:18.826
- MALE: ONE POINT,EISENHOWER TOLD HIS SON JOHN,
00:21:18.826 --> 00:21:21.929
EISENHOWER TOLD HIS SON JOHN,"I'M NOT GETTING RID
00:21:21.929 --> 00:21:22.663
"I'M NOT GETTING RIDOF PATTON FOR WHAT HE JUST DID.
00:21:22.663 --> 00:21:24.131
OF PATTON FOR WHAT HE JUST DID.I'M GETTING RID OF HIM FOR
00:21:24.131 --> 00:21:25.933
I'M GETTING RID OF HIM FORWHAT HE'S GOING TO DO NEXT."
00:21:25.933 --> 00:21:28.902
- DENNIS SHOWALTER:
00:21:30.504 --> 00:21:31.472
- DENNIS SHOWALTER:PATTON HAD A WAY OF SAYING
00:21:31.472 --> 00:21:33.374
PATTON HAD A WAY OF SAYINGTRUTHS THAT OTHER PEOPLE
00:21:33.374 --> 00:21:35.809
- PAUL KENGOR: THERE
00:21:36.910 --> 00:21:38.112
- PAUL KENGOR: THEREWOULD'VE BEEN PEOPLE IN
00:21:38.112 --> 00:21:38.779
WOULD'VE BEEN PEOPLE INFDR'S ADMINISTRATION WHO
00:21:38.779 --> 00:21:39.380
FDR'S ADMINISTRATION WHOWOULD'VE DETESTED
00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:41.315
WOULD'VE DETESTEDGEORGE PATTON--
00:21:41.315 --> 00:21:41.815
GEORGE PATTON--THE FACT THAT PATTON
00:21:41.815 --> 00:21:42.483
THE FACT THAT PATTONTHOUGHT THAT THE
00:21:42.483 --> 00:21:44.651
THOUGHT THAT THESOVIETS WERE THE THREAT,
00:21:44.651 --> 00:21:45.152
SOVIETS WERE THE THREAT,OR AT LEAST THE FUTURE
00:21:45.152 --> 00:21:47.154
OR AT LEAST THE FUTURETHREAT POSTWAR.
00:21:47.154 --> 00:21:48.622
THREAT POSTWAR.VICTOR DAVID HANSON: HE WAS
00:21:48.622 --> 00:21:49.590
VICTOR DAVID HANSON: HE WASGOING TO ARGUE THAT
00:21:49.590 --> 00:21:50.057
GOING TO ARGUE THATWE HAD BEEN NAIVE
00:21:50.057 --> 00:21:50.657
WE HAD BEEN NAIVEIN PARTNERING WITH
00:21:50.657 --> 00:21:51.992
IN PARTNERING WITHTHE RUSSIANS.
00:21:51.992 --> 00:21:52.459
THE RUSSIANS.- MALE: THE FDR
00:21:52.459 --> 00:21:53.160
- MALE: THE FDRADMINISTRATION HAD A BUNCH
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:54.895
ADMINISTRATION HAD A BUNCHOF PEOPLE WHO WERE,
00:21:54.895 --> 00:21:55.763
OF PEOPLE WHO WERE,IN SOME CASES, OUTRIGHT
00:21:55.763 --> 00:21:56.530
IN SOME CASES, OUTRIGHTSOVIET SPIES, STRONG
00:21:56.530 --> 00:21:58.565
SOVIET SPIES, STRONGSOVIET SYMPATHIZERS,
00:21:58.565 --> 00:22:02.336
SOVIET SYMPATHIZERS,DUPES SOFT ON COMMUNISM.
00:22:02.336 --> 00:22:02.870
DUPES SOFT ON COMMUNISM.- MALE: AND WHEN YOU PUT
00:22:02.870 --> 00:22:03.337
- MALE: AND WHEN YOU PUTTHAT ALL TOGETHER,
00:22:03.337 --> 00:22:04.238
THAT ALL TOGETHER,THAT RIGHT THERE,
00:22:04.238 --> 00:22:09.143
THAT RIGHT THERE,IT SPELLED CONSPIRACY.
00:22:09.143 --> 00:22:17.484
IT SPELLED CONSPIRACY.[POPPING SOUND]
00:22:17.484 --> 00:22:18.886
[POPPING SOUND]♪ WE GONNA TAKE IT ♪
00:22:18.886 --> 00:22:19.486
♪ WE GONNA TAKE IT ♪♪ GONNA TAKE IT ♪
00:22:19.486 --> 00:22:20.053
♪ GONNA TAKE IT ♪♪ GONNA TAKE IT ♪
00:22:20.053 --> 00:22:25.225
♪ GONNA TAKE IT ♪♪ GONNA TAKE IT TO THE TOP ♪
00:22:25.225 --> 00:22:31.265
♪ GONNA TAKE IT TO THE TOP ♪♪ I'M GONNA ♪
00:22:31.265 --> 00:22:32.099
♪ I'M GONNA ♪♪ TAKE IT TO THE TOP ♪
00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:37.871
♪ TAKE IT TO THE TOP ♪♪ I'M GONNA ♪
00:22:37.871 --> 00:22:39.440
♪ I'M GONNA ♪♪ TAKE IT TO THE TOP ♪
00:22:39.440 --> 00:22:42.042
♪ TAKE IT TO THE TOP ♪♪ I'M GONNA ♪
00:22:42.042 --> 00:22:45.000

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Guests Todd Nettleton and Robert Orlando

Guests Todd Nettleton and Robert Orlando

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Guests Todd Nettleton and Robert Orlando

Guests Todd Nettleton and Robert Orlando

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