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Guest Robert Orlando

Watch Guest Robert Orlando
The Eric Metaxas Radio Show
November 1, 2019
25:47

The Eric Metaxas Radio Show

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Guest Robert Orlando

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  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.150
  • [SMOOCH]
  • 00:00:02.150 --> 00:00:03.200
  • [WHOOSH]
  • 00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:04.210
  • [DOOR SLAMMING]
  • 00:00:04.210 --> 00:00:05.270
  • [BING]
  • 00:00:05.270 --> 00:00:06.250
  • [REVVING, SCREECHING]
  • 00:00:06.250 --> 00:00:07.220
  • [PLOP]
  • 00:00:07.220 --> 00:00:08.230
  • [WHOOSH]
  • 00:00:08.230 --> 00:00:09.280
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:09.280 --> 00:00:11.000
  • - MALE: HEY.
  • 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:13.060
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:13.060 --> 00:00:14.010
  • [BOINK]
  • 00:00:14.010 --> 00:00:16.140
  • [ENGINE REVVING]
  • 00:00:16.140 --> 00:00:18.000
  • [BRAKES SQUEALING]
  • 00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.080
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:19.080 --> 00:00:21.270
  • [CRASH]
  • 00:00:24.180 --> 00:00:27.180
  • [CHEERS]
  • 00:00:27.180 --> 00:00:30.000
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:30.260
  • - ERIC METAXAS: I'M
  • 00:00:36.090 --> 00:00:36.250
  • ERIC METAXAS, AND I HAVE
  • 00:00:36.250 --> 00:00:37.130
  • THE DIRECTOR IN THE
  • 00:00:37.130 --> 00:00:37.290
  • STUDIO OF "ROCKET MAN,"
  • 00:00:37.290 --> 00:00:38.250
  • WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.
  • 00:00:40.250 --> 00:00:41.270
  • - ROBERT ORLANDO: WRONG GUY.
  • 00:00:41.270 --> 00:00:43.050
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:00:43.050 --> 00:00:43.260
  • - ERIC: HOLY COW, YOU'RE NOT
  • 00:00:43.260 --> 00:00:44.180
  • YOU'RE A WHOLE DIFFERENT
  • 00:00:47.120 --> 00:00:48.000
  • MOVIE DIRECTOR.
  • 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:48.140
  • - ROBERT: YEAH, I'M
  • 00:00:48.140 --> 00:00:49.000
  • THE OTHER GUY.
  • 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:49.130
  • - ERIC: YOU MUST BE
  • 00:00:49.130 --> 00:00:49.290
  • ROBERT ORLANDO.
  • 00:00:49.290 --> 00:00:50.130
  • - ROBERT: I AM.
  • 00:00:50.130 --> 00:00:50.270
  • - ERIC: I JUST MET YOU.
  • 00:00:50.270 --> 00:00:51.150
  • I KNEW THAT.
  • 00:00:51.150 --> 00:00:51.270
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:00:51.270 --> 00:00:52.090
  • I GOTTA TELL YOU, I GET VERY
  • 00:00:55.100 --> 00:00:56.000
  • EXCITED ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF
  • 00:00:56.000 --> 00:00:57.080
  • YOUR FILM AND THE BOOK.
  • 00:00:57.080 --> 00:00:57.260
  • LET'S START HERE: THE BOOK THAT
  • 00:00:58.110 --> 00:01:01.130
  • YOU WROTE WITH PAUL KENGOR,
  • 00:01:01.130 --> 00:01:02.030
  • WHO'S A GROVE CITY HISTORIAN,
  • 00:01:02.030 --> 00:01:03.160
  • IS CALLED "THE DIVINE PLAN:
  • 00:01:03.160 --> 00:01:06.160
  • JOHN PAUL II,
  • 00:01:06.160 --> 00:01:06.290
  • RONALD REAGAN, AND THE
  • 00:01:06.290 --> 00:01:08.240
  • DRAMATIC END OF THE COLD WAR."
  • 00:01:09.290 --> 00:01:12.290
  • THIS IS THE BOOK, BUT YOU HAVE
  • 00:01:12.290 --> 00:01:15.160
  • DIRECTED A FILM CALLED
  • 00:01:15.160 --> 00:01:16.230
  • IT'S COMING OUT ON
  • 00:01:20.020 --> 00:01:20.170
  • NOVEMBER 6TH ONLY.
  • 00:01:20.170 --> 00:01:21.060
  • IT'S ONE OF THOSE ONE-NIGHT
  • 00:01:21.060 --> 00:01:21.260
  • EVENTS.
  • 00:01:21.260 --> 00:01:23.020
  • - ROBERT: YUP.
  • 00:01:23.020 --> 00:01:24.190
  • - ERIC: HOW DID YOU, ROBERT
  • 00:01:24.190 --> 00:01:25.090
  • BECAUSE, WHEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT
  • 00:01:28.210 --> 00:01:29.130
  • RONALD REAGAN, JOHN PAUL II,
  • 00:01:29.130 --> 00:01:30.030
  • USUALLY MARGARET THATCHER
  • 00:01:30.030 --> 00:01:30.220
  • GETS THROWN IN.
  • 00:01:30.220 --> 00:01:31.140
  • YOU REALIZE IT'S A CONVERGENCE
  • 00:01:31.140 --> 00:01:32.050
  • OF FORCES IN HISTORY
  • 00:01:32.050 --> 00:01:33.230
  • UNLIKE ANYTHING.
  • 00:01:33.230 --> 00:01:35.040
  • - ROBERT: MM-HMM.
  • 00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:35.200
  • - ERIC: HOW DID YOU GET
  • 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:36.240
  • PULLED INTO THIS?
  • 00:01:36.240 --> 00:01:37.240
  • - ROBERT: I READ PAUL'S BOOK,
  • 00:01:37.240 --> 00:01:39.120
  • AND I WAS INSPIRED BY IT, BUT I
  • 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:40.040
  • ALSO, JUST AS A FILMMAKER, WAS
  • 00:01:40.040 --> 00:01:41.020
  • SNIFFIN' OUT A STORY AND SAYING,
  • 00:01:41.020 --> 00:01:42.180
  • "IF A POPE AND A PRESIDENT GOT
  • 00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:44.170
  • TOGETHER BEHIND THE SCENES AND
  • 00:01:44.170 --> 00:01:45.290
  • INVOLVED THE CIA AND POLISH
  • 00:01:45.290 --> 00:01:48.040
  • SOLIDARITY AND THERE WAS MONEY
  • 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:49.290
  • INVOLVED AND THE VATICAN WAS
  • 00:01:49.290 --> 00:01:50.230
  • RECOGNIZED AND THIS IS NOT A
  • 00:01:50.230 --> 00:01:51.220
  • TOM CLANCY NOVEL--"
  • 00:01:51.220 --> 00:01:52.130
  • - ERIC: SOUNDS LIKE A FILM.
  • 00:01:52.130 --> 00:01:54.290
  • - ROBERT: YEAH, "IT'S NOT A
  • 00:01:54.290 --> 00:01:55.190
  • TOM CLANCY NOVEL,"
  • 00:01:55.190 --> 00:01:56.040
  • I SAID, THEN--
  • 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:56.170
  • SO, AT FIRST, IT WAS MY
  • 00:01:56.170 --> 00:01:57.170
  • CURIOSITY: "IS THIS TRUE, AND
  • 00:01:57.170 --> 00:01:58.230
  • COULD THIS BE PROVEN ENOUGH TO
  • 00:01:58.230 --> 00:02:00.030
  • WRITE A BOOK?"
  • 00:02:00.030 --> 00:02:01.200
  • IF YOU COULD BACK IT UP WITH A
  • 00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:02.130
  • BOOK AND RESEARCH, THEN IT'S
  • 00:02:02.130 --> 00:02:03.220
  • JUST GONNA BE GRAVY
  • 00:02:03.220 --> 00:02:04.090
  • WITH THE FILM.
  • 00:02:04.090 --> 00:02:05.010
  • - ERIC: WHAT CONVINCED YOU
  • 00:02:05.010 --> 00:02:06.110
  • THAT IT WAS TRUE?
  • 00:02:06.110 --> 00:02:08.000
  • - ROBERT: THE FACTS ARE THERE.
  • 00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:08.280
  • IF YOU BROKE DOWN THE FILM, IT'S
  • 00:02:08.280 --> 00:02:10.200
  • PARTS LIKE, "WAS THERE REALLY
  • 00:02:10.200 --> 00:02:11.150
  • AN OPERATION?
  • 00:02:11.150 --> 00:02:13.240
  • WAS THERE COMMUNIQUÉS?
  • 00:02:13.240 --> 00:02:15.140
  • DID REAGAN AND
  • 00:02:15.140 --> 00:02:16.170
  • JOHN PAUL II MEET?
  • 00:02:16.170 --> 00:02:18.010
  • DID THEY BOTH FEEL THE SAME?
  • 00:02:18.010 --> 00:02:18.220
  • DID THEY USE THE TERM 'THE
  • 00:02:18.220 --> 00:02:19.150
  • DIVINE PLAN'?"
  • 00:02:19.150 --> 00:02:22.120
  • THEY ACTUALLY USED THE CODE,
  • 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:23.020
  • "THE DP."
  • 00:02:23.020 --> 00:02:23.190
  • THERE WAS ACTUALLY A
  • 00:02:23.190 --> 00:02:24.100
  • CLANDESTINE OPERATION IN
  • 00:02:24.100 --> 00:02:25.280
  • WASHINGTON, WHERE REAGAN WOULD
  • 00:02:25.280 --> 00:02:27.260
  • GO TO BILL CASEY, AND THEY'D
  • 00:02:27.260 --> 00:02:28.240
  • CALL IT "CAPPUCCINO TIME."
  • 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.020
  • THEY HAD A CODE WORD WHEN THEY
  • 00:02:30.020 --> 00:02:31.040
  • WANTED TO SPEAK TO THE
  • 00:02:31.040 --> 00:02:31.230
  • REPRESENTATIVE FROM THE VATICAN,
  • 00:02:31.230 --> 00:02:33.050
  • PIO LAGHI, SO THERE
  • 00:02:33.050 --> 00:02:33.230
  • WAS A WHOLE--
  • 00:02:33.230 --> 00:02:35.100
  • - ERIC: "CAPPUCCINO TIME"?
  • 00:02:35.100 --> 00:02:36.000
  • - ROBERT: YUP, 'CAUSE THEY
  • 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:37.030
  • DIDN'T WANT ANYONE PICKIN'
  • 00:02:37.030 --> 00:02:38.000
  • UP ON THE CODE.
  • 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:38.170
  • - ERIC: HAD HE BEEN A
  • 00:02:38.170 --> 00:02:39.090
  • CAPUCHIN MONK?
  • 00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:40.010
  • WE DON'T KNOW.
  • 00:02:40.010 --> 00:02:41.150
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:02:41.210 --> 00:02:44.210
  • ALL RIGHT, SO, ROBERT ORLANDO,
  • 00:02:44.210 --> 00:02:45.200
  • YOU HAVE MADE FILMS BEFORE.
  • 00:02:45.200 --> 00:02:48.020
  • THIS IS-- WHAT DO WE CALL IT?
  • 00:02:48.020 --> 00:02:50.150
  • IS IT A STRAIGHT DOCUMENTARY, OR
  • 00:02:50.150 --> 00:02:51.230
  • IS IT A DOCUDRAMA?
  • 00:02:51.230 --> 00:02:52.260
  • - ROBERT: I THINK IT'S A
  • 00:02:52.260 --> 00:02:53.160
  • DOCUDRAMA IN THAT IT'S--
  • 00:02:53.160 --> 00:02:56.020
  • CONVENTIONALLY, IT'S A
  • 00:02:56.020 --> 00:02:57.140
  • DOCUMENTARY, BUT I THINK THE WAY
  • 00:02:57.140 --> 00:02:58.060
  • IT'S ORGANIZED IN THE
  • 00:02:58.060 --> 00:02:59.110
  • STORYTELLING, IT'S MORE ABOUT
  • 00:02:59.110 --> 00:03:00.280
  • THE CHARACTER ARCS, WHAT THEY
  • 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:02.010
  • OVERCOME, AND SO IT'S GOT THE
  • 00:03:02.010 --> 00:03:03.040
  • FORM OF A NARRATIVE IN A
  • 00:03:03.040 --> 00:03:04.190
  • DRAMATIC WAY MORE SO, YEAH.
  • 00:03:04.270 --> 00:03:07.270
  • - ERIC: SO REAGAN--
  • 00:03:07.270 --> 00:03:08.220
  • IT DOESN'T STRIKE ME
  • 00:03:08.220 --> 00:03:10.140
  • AS THAT SURPRISING,
  • 00:03:10.140 --> 00:03:11.000
  • GIVEN WHAT I KNOW ABOUT RONALD
  • 00:03:11.000 --> 00:03:13.110
  • REAGAN THAT HE SAW HIMSELF AS
  • 00:03:13.110 --> 00:03:15.050
  • BEING USED BY GOD IN HISTORY AND
  • 00:03:15.050 --> 00:03:17.250
  • THAT HE WOULD SEE THINGS THIS
  • 00:03:17.250 --> 00:03:20.240
  • WAY, AND I THINK IT IS THE CASE
  • 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.100
  • THAT THAT HAPPENED.
  • 00:03:22.210 --> 00:03:25.210
  • WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THAT?
  • 00:03:25.210 --> 00:03:26.180
  • BECAUSE THAT'S A BIG THING WHEN
  • 00:03:26.180 --> 00:03:28.100
  • A PLAYER ON THE INTERNATIONAL
  • 00:03:28.100 --> 00:03:29.210
  • STAGE, ON THIS LEVEL,
  • 00:03:29.210 --> 00:03:32.090
  • SEES HIMSELF AS A TOOL
  • 00:03:32.090 --> 00:03:34.240
  • IN GOD'S HAND FOR GOD'S
  • 00:03:34.240 --> 00:03:37.010
  • PURPOSES IN HISTORY.
  • 00:03:37.270 --> 00:03:40.270
  • - ROBERT: SO THE ONE ANGLE--
  • 00:03:40.270 --> 00:03:42.050
  • AND PAUL RECOGNIZES IMMEDIATELY
  • 00:03:42.050 --> 00:03:43.090
  • IS THAT, BECAUSE I CROSS IN
  • 00:03:43.090 --> 00:03:44.080
  • BETWEEN THE BETWEEN --
  • 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:45.040
  • - ERIC: BUT WHEN YOU SAY,
  • 00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:45.260
  • "PAUL," YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
  • 00:03:45.260 --> 00:03:46.230
  • PAUL--
  • 00:03:46.230 --> 00:03:47.170
  • - ROBERT: PAUL KENGOR.
  • 00:03:47.170 --> 00:03:48.110
  • - ERIC: -- KENGOR, YOUR
  • 00:03:48.110 --> 00:03:48.290
  • COAUTHOR-- YEAH.
  • 00:03:48.290 --> 00:03:49.130
  • - ROBERT: IT WAS SOMETHING HE
  • 00:03:49.130 --> 00:03:50.040
  • RECOGNIZED, KNOWING ALL THE
  • 00:03:50.040 --> 00:03:50.240
  • LITERATURE, KNOWING ALL THE
  • 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:51.140
  • BOOKS, THAT I WAS COMING AT IT
  • 00:03:51.140 --> 00:03:52.050
  • AS A FILMMAKER CROSSING INTO
  • 00:03:52.050 --> 00:03:52.250
  • THIS WORLD.
  • 00:03:52.250 --> 00:03:53.170
  • SO I ALSO RECOGNIZED IMMEDIATELY
  • 00:03:53.170 --> 00:03:55.040
  • THEY WERE BOTH FORMER ACTORS,
  • 00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:55.270
  • AND BECAUSE THEY WERE BOTH
  • 00:03:55.270 --> 00:03:57.050
  • FORMER ACTORS--
  • 00:03:57.050 --> 00:03:58.250
  • - ERIC: YOU KNOW SOMETHING?
  • 00:03:58.250 --> 00:03:59.160
  • I NEVER THOUGHT OF THAT.
  • 00:03:59.160 --> 00:04:00.270
  • EXPLAIN THAT TO MY AUDIENCE
  • 00:04:00.270 --> 00:04:02.220
  • 'CAUSE MOST PEOPLE--
  • 00:04:02.220 --> 00:04:03.290
  • THEY'RE YOUNG PEOPLE LISTENING.
  • 00:04:03.290 --> 00:04:04.210
  • THEY NEVER HEARD
  • 00:04:04.210 --> 00:04:06.170
  • OF J.P. II.
  • 00:04:06.170 --> 00:04:07.110
  • THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW WHO
  • 00:04:07.110 --> 00:04:09.080
  • RONALD REAGAN IS.
  • 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:09.260
  • THEY SAY, "THAT'S
  • 00:04:09.260 --> 00:04:10.140
  • BEFORE MY TIME.
  • 00:04:10.140 --> 00:04:11.090
  • WHO'S THAT AGAIN?"
  • 00:04:11.090 --> 00:04:13.110
  • TELL US, WHEN YOU SAY, "THEY'RE
  • 00:04:13.110 --> 00:04:14.030
  • BOTH ACTORS,"
  • 00:04:14.030 --> 00:04:15.100
  • THIS INCREDIBLE PRESIDENT,
  • 00:04:15.100 --> 00:04:16.120
  • THIS EXTRAORDINARY POPE,
  • 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:18.100
  • TELL US ABOUT THIS.
  • 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:19.060
  • - ROBERT: SO, TO ME, THAT SAYS
  • 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:20.160
  • IF YOU ARE SOMEONE WHO OPERATES
  • 00:04:25.030 --> 00:04:25.250
  • IN THE FILM INDUSTRY AND KNOWS
  • 00:04:25.250 --> 00:04:27.110
  • WHAT IT TAKES TO DO 80 FILMS OR
  • 00:04:27.110 --> 00:04:28.030
  • DO THEATER IN FRONT OF PEOPLE,
  • 00:04:28.030 --> 00:04:29.110
  • ESPECIALLY UNDER THE OPPRESSION
  • 00:04:29.110 --> 00:04:30.070
  • YOU LEARN HOW EFFECTIVE YOU
  • 00:04:33.140 --> 00:04:34.050
  • COULD BE IN THE MOMENT, AND
  • 00:04:34.050 --> 00:04:35.030
  • PRESENCE, ARTICULATION, AND IT
  • 00:04:35.030 --> 00:04:36.050
  • ALSO JUST FORMS YOUR WAY OF
  • 00:04:36.050 --> 00:04:37.260
  • LOOKING AT THE WORLD, BUT DRAMA
  • 00:04:37.260 --> 00:04:38.260
  • COULD ALSO SERVE AS A WAY OF
  • 00:04:38.260 --> 00:04:40.270
  • FINDING MEANING, AND IN THEIR
  • 00:04:40.270 --> 00:04:42.080
  • CASE WITH THEIR FAITH BECAUSE
  • 00:04:42.080 --> 00:04:43.090
  • THEY KNEW THAT THEY NEEDED
  • 00:04:43.090 --> 00:04:45.110
  • TO HAVE FAITH IN ACTION
  • 00:04:45.110 --> 00:04:46.110
  • AND TAKE STEPS.
  • 00:04:46.110 --> 00:04:47.240
  • IT ALMOST BECOMES A METAPHOR
  • 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.000
  • FOR A LARGER THING.
  • 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.080
  • SO I CAME UP WITH A
  • 00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:51.260
  • TAGLINE RIGHT AWAY.
  • 00:04:51.260 --> 00:04:52.280
  • I SAID, "TWO ACTORS WHO NEVER
  • 00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:53.190
  • GET THEIR GREATEST ROLE UNTIL
  • 00:04:53.190 --> 00:04:55.080
  • THEY STEP ONTO THE WORLD STAGE,"
  • 00:04:55.080 --> 00:04:56.160
  • AND THAT WAS KIND OF
  • 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:57.160
  • THE ANGLE IN.
  • 00:04:57.160 --> 00:04:58.180
  • - ERIC: BUT TELL MY AUDIENCE
  • 00:04:58.180 --> 00:04:59.220
  • WHO MIGHT NOT KNOW, IF THEY'RE
  • 00:04:59.220 --> 00:05:01.180
  • YOUNG, HOW IT IS THAT REAGAN AND
  • 00:05:01.180 --> 00:05:03.260
  • WOJTYLA, THE POPE, WERE ACTORS
  • 00:05:03.260 --> 00:05:06.000
  • IN THEIR YOUNG DAYS.
  • 00:05:07.290 --> 00:05:10.290
  • - ROBERT: WELL, REAGAN WAS A--
  • 00:05:10.290 --> 00:05:12.020
  • BEFORE HE LEFT ILLINOIS,
  • 00:05:12.020 --> 00:05:13.030
  • WENT OUT TO CALIFORNIA
  • 00:05:13.030 --> 00:05:14.240
  • TO BECOME AN ACTOR
  • 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:15.280
  • AND WAS AT LEAST
  • 00:05:15.280 --> 00:05:17.190
  • A "B" LEVEL.
  • 00:05:17.190 --> 00:05:18.020
  • SOME WILL ARGUE AN "A" LEVEL,
  • 00:05:18.020 --> 00:05:18.280
  • BUT HE DID, I THINK,
  • 00:05:18.280 --> 00:05:19.240
  • OVER 80 FILMS.
  • 00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:20.080
  • - ERIC: BUT HE MADE 80 FILMS?
  • 00:05:20.080 --> 00:05:22.020
  • - ROBERT: EIGHTY FILMS.
  • 00:05:22.020 --> 00:05:22.210
  • HE ALSO WROTE SCRIPTS, AND HE
  • 00:05:22.210 --> 00:05:23.170
  • ALSO WAS THE HEAD OF A
  • 00:05:23.170 --> 00:05:24.070
  • PRODUCTION COMPANY FOR A WHILE,
  • 00:05:24.070 --> 00:05:25.170
  • SO HE WAS WELL-TRAINED.
  • 00:05:25.170 --> 00:05:27.120
  • HE WAS THE JIMMY STEWART--
  • 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:29.020
  • - ERIC: I JUST SAY THIS BECAUSE
  • 00:05:29.020 --> 00:05:30.130
  • I KNOW-- I MEAN, OF COURSE,
  • 00:05:30.130 --> 00:05:31.210
  • I KNOW THIS.
  • 00:05:31.210 --> 00:05:32.230
  • WE'RE ABOUT THE SAME AGE, BUT
  • 00:05:32.230 --> 00:05:33.250
  • THERE ARE A LOT OF YOUNG PEOPLE
  • 00:05:33.250 --> 00:05:35.070
  • THAT DON'T REALIZE RONALD REAGAN
  • 00:05:35.070 --> 00:05:36.120
  • WAS FAMOUS, INCREDIBLY FAMOUS IN
  • 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:38.020
  • AMERICA AS AN ACTOR.
  • 00:05:38.020 --> 00:05:39.130
  • HE WAS FAMOUS AS AN ACTOR, AND I
  • 00:05:39.130 --> 00:05:42.020
  • REMEMBER, YOU KNOW, WHEN HE WAS
  • 00:05:42.020 --> 00:05:44.190
  • RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT, AND WHEN
  • 00:05:44.190 --> 00:05:46.070
  • HE WAS PRESIDENT, HOW PEOPLE WHO
  • 00:05:46.070 --> 00:05:49.030
  • DIDN'T LIKE HIM WOULD JUST
  • 00:05:49.030 --> 00:05:50.030
  • MAKE FUN OF HIM.
  • 00:05:50.250 --> 00:05:53.250
  • IT'S LIKE, "AH, HE'S JUST A
  • 00:05:53.250 --> 00:05:56.010
  • WASHED-UP ACTOR,"
  • 00:05:56.010 --> 00:05:56.160
  • "ACTORS DON'T BECOME
  • 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:57.020
  • PRESIDENTS,"
  • 00:05:57.020 --> 00:05:57.190
  • YOU KNOW,
  • 00:05:57.190 --> 00:05:58.250
  • "WHAT'LL HAPPEN NEXT?
  • 00:05:58.250 --> 00:05:59.240
  • LIKE, A REALITY TV WILL BE
  • 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:01.140
  • INVENTED, AND ONE OF THOSE GUYS
  • 00:06:01.140 --> 00:06:02.140
  • WILL BECOME A PRESIDENT?
  • 00:06:02.140 --> 00:06:03.020
  • NO, WE DON'T GO FOR THAT."
  • 00:06:03.020 --> 00:06:03.240
  • SO HE WAS FAMOUS FOR BEING AN
  • 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:05.020
  • ACTOR, AND HE WAS MOCKED, BUT
  • 00:06:05.020 --> 00:06:07.290
  • TELL US ABOUT JOHN PAUL II,
  • 00:06:07.290 --> 00:06:08.270
  • "THE GREAT" JOHN PAUL II,
  • 00:06:08.270 --> 00:06:09.180
  • ABOUT HOW IT IS THAT
  • 00:06:09.270 --> 00:06:12.270
  • HE WAS AN ACTOR.
  • 00:06:12.270 --> 00:06:13.110
  • - ROBERT: SO IN ORDER TO
  • 00:06:13.110 --> 00:06:14.120
  • APPRECIATE JOHN PAUL II,
  • 00:06:15.230 --> 00:06:18.230
  • BEING AN ACTOR,
  • 00:06:18.230 --> 00:06:19.070
  • YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND
  • 00:06:19.070 --> 00:06:20.000
  • HIS CONTEXT.
  • 00:06:20.000 --> 00:06:20.250
  • SO HE'S GROWING UP, LOT OF
  • 00:06:20.250 --> 00:06:21.180
  • SUFFERING UNDER NAZI GERMANY,
  • 00:06:21.180 --> 00:06:23.060
  • AND 20%, I BELIEVE, OF POLISH
  • 00:06:23.060 --> 00:06:25.200
  • PEOPLE WERE KILLED IN THE WAR,
  • 00:06:25.200 --> 00:06:27.200
  • MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE, SO THERE
  • 00:06:27.200 --> 00:06:29.080
  • WAS NOWHERE TO SPEAK, THERE WAS
  • 00:06:29.080 --> 00:06:30.030
  • NOWHERE TO ORGANIZE, THERE WAS
  • 00:06:30.030 --> 00:06:31.200
  • NO WAY TO CONNECT, SO WHAT HE
  • 00:06:31.200 --> 00:06:32.280
  • DID IS HE TOOK THE UNDERGROUND
  • 00:06:32.280 --> 00:06:34.050
  • THEATER IN POLAND AND USED
  • 00:06:34.050 --> 00:06:34.250
  • THEMES AND MESSAGES OF POLISH
  • 00:06:34.250 --> 00:06:36.150
  • PRIDE AND CHRISTIAN THEMES FROM
  • 00:06:36.150 --> 00:06:39.130
  • THE OLD TESTAMENT AND
  • 00:06:39.130 --> 00:06:40.000
  • NEW TESTAMENT 'CAUSE HE WANTED
  • 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:41.140
  • TO KEEP INFORMING HIS
  • 00:06:41.140 --> 00:06:42.010
  • PEOPLE AND GIVING
  • 00:06:42.010 --> 00:06:42.160
  • THEM HOPE.
  • 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:43.110
  • THIS WAS THE ONLY WAY TO DO IT,
  • 00:06:43.110 --> 00:06:44.030
  • AND IT WENT ON BEYOND THAT
  • 00:06:44.030 --> 00:06:44.220
  • BECAUSE THEN, AFTER THE NAZIS
  • 00:06:44.220 --> 00:06:45.250
  • MOVED OUT, THE NICE COMMUNISTS
  • 00:06:45.250 --> 00:06:47.040
  • CAME IN AND DID THE SAME THING
  • 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:48.210
  • THE NAZIS WERE DOING.
  • 00:06:48.210 --> 00:06:49.140
  • SO, FOR HIM, THEATER BECAME A
  • 00:06:49.140 --> 00:06:51.110
  • WAY OF EXPRESSING SOMETHING, AND
  • 00:06:51.110 --> 00:06:52.170
  • I THINK IT WAS HIS SECOND BOOK,
  • 00:06:52.170 --> 00:06:54.140
  • HE WROTE "THEOLOGY OF THE BODY."
  • 00:06:54.140 --> 00:06:56.050
  • THE SECOND ONE WAS "THE ACTING
  • 00:06:56.050 --> 00:06:57.170
  • PERSON," BUT IT'S A DOUBLE
  • 00:06:57.170 --> 00:06:59.020
  • ENTENDRE ABOUT ACTING, AND LIFE,
  • 00:06:59.020 --> 00:07:01.190
  • AND FINDING YOUR FAITH, BUT
  • 00:07:01.190 --> 00:07:03.070
  • ALSO, HOW COULD HE NOT BE AWARE
  • 00:07:03.070 --> 00:07:05.050
  • OF BEING AN ACTOR LIKE THAT?
  • 00:07:05.050 --> 00:07:05.250
  • BUT HE WAS KNOWN AS THE ONE OR
  • 00:07:05.250 --> 00:07:07.040
  • TWO TOP ACTORS IN HIS TIME.
  • 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:08.200
  • - ERIC: WHAT?
  • 00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:10.160
  • - ROBERT: YES.
  • 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:11.040
  • - ERIC: I NEVER HEARD THAT.
  • 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:11.240
  • - ROBERT: YES.
  • 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:13.260
  • - ERIC: SO HE'S A PLAYWRIGHT,
  • 00:07:13.260 --> 00:07:14.170
  • HE'S AN ACTOR, AND THEN TO
  • 00:07:14.170 --> 00:07:15.060
  • BURNISH HIS RESUME, HE BECOMES
  • 00:07:15.060 --> 00:07:15.290
  • POPE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.
  • 00:07:15.290 --> 00:07:18.220
  • IT'S PRETTY--
  • 00:07:18.220 --> 00:07:19.250
  • IT'S AN AMAZING STORY.
  • 00:07:19.250 --> 00:07:21.040
  • - ROBERT: IT'S AN AMAZING
  • 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:21.240
  • STORY.
  • 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:23.020
  • YOU CAN'T MAKE IT UP.
  • 00:07:23.020 --> 00:07:23.290
  • - ERIC: ARE YOU CATHOLIC?
  • 00:07:23.290 --> 00:07:24.180
  • WERE YOU RAISED CATHOLIC?
  • 00:07:24.180 --> 00:07:25.070
  • - ROBERT: I'M A "REVERT."
  • 00:07:25.070 --> 00:07:26.180
  • - ERIC: WHAT IS THAT?
  • 00:07:26.180 --> 00:07:28.010
  • - ROBERT: I WAS CATHOLIC,
  • 00:07:28.010 --> 00:07:28.200
  • AND I WAS EVANGELICAL AND
  • 00:07:28.200 --> 00:07:29.220
  • PRESBYTERIAN, AND THEN I
  • 00:07:29.220 --> 00:07:31.090
  • BECAME CATHOLIC AGAIN.
  • 00:07:31.090 --> 00:07:31.260
  • - ERIC: AND YOU SWAM BACK
  • 00:07:31.260 --> 00:07:33.130
  • ACROSS THE TIBER?
  • 00:07:33.130 --> 00:07:34.100
  • - ROBERT: I DID.
  • 00:07:34.100 --> 00:07:34.250
  • - ERIC: OKAY, SO YOU HAVE A
  • 00:07:34.250 --> 00:07:35.150
  • PARTICULAR RESPECT, BUT WHEN YOU
  • 00:07:35.150 --> 00:07:36.070
  • TELL ME THIS, THAT, YOU KNOW, HE
  • 00:07:36.070 --> 00:07:37.190
  • WAS A PLAYWRIGHT, HE'S BEING
  • 00:07:37.190 --> 00:07:38.200
  • SUBVERSIVE UNDER THE NAZIS, THEN
  • 00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:39.260
  • UNDER THE COMMUNISTS, USING
  • 00:07:39.260 --> 00:07:41.050
  • THEATER, I MEAN, THIS IS A
  • 00:07:41.210 --> 00:07:44.210
  • PRETTY AMAZING HUMAN BEING.
  • 00:07:44.210 --> 00:07:45.290
  • - ROBERT: MM-HMM, YEAH, WHEN HE
  • 00:07:45.290 --> 00:07:47.020
  • WAS AT HIS PEAK OF POPULARITY OR
  • 00:07:47.020 --> 00:07:48.210
  • I ACTUALLY WASN'T FOLLOWING HIM.
  • 00:07:54.220 --> 00:07:55.140
  • I DIDN'T.
  • 00:07:55.140 --> 00:07:56.080
  • I APPRECIATE-- I KNEW RESPECT.
  • 00:07:56.080 --> 00:07:56.290
  • HE'S A GREAT MAN, AND, OF
  • 00:07:56.290 --> 00:07:57.180
  • COURSE, BEING AROUND CATHOLICS,
  • 00:07:57.180 --> 00:07:58.100
  • BUT THE TRUTH WAS, WHEN I GOT
  • 00:07:58.100 --> 00:07:59.060
  • I SAW HIM AS A TRANSFORMATIONAL
  • 00:08:02.260 --> 00:08:03.180
  • FIGURE.
  • 00:08:03.180 --> 00:08:04.000
  • I NEVER SAW THAT THE FIRST TIME
  • 00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.030
  • AROUND, AND I DO THINK OF LUTHER
  • 00:08:05.030 --> 00:08:05.250
  • AND THE APOSTLE PAUL.
  • 00:08:05.250 --> 00:08:08.030
  • THIS IS WHERE YOU HAVE TO GO TO
  • 00:08:08.030 --> 00:08:08.250
  • START THINKING ABOUT
  • 00:08:08.250 --> 00:08:09.110
  • HIS INFLUENCE.
  • 00:08:09.110 --> 00:08:09.250
  • - ERIC: YEAH, HOW BIG THE
  • 00:08:09.250 --> 00:08:10.140
  • INFLUENCE WAS, RIGHT.
  • 00:08:10.140 --> 00:08:11.010
  • - ROBERT: 'CAUSE HE'S
  • 00:08:11.010 --> 00:08:11.230
  • TRANSFORMING WHAT THE
  • 00:08:11.230 --> 00:08:12.240
  • TRADITIONAL MESSAGE IS, BUT HE'S
  • 00:08:12.240 --> 00:08:14.050
  • MAKING IT EFFECTIVE AGAIN FOR
  • 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:15.120
  • HIS TIME, AND THAT'S A RARITY,
  • 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:16.160
  • WHAT I JUST SAID.
  • 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:18.100
  • - ERIC: WELL, THERE'S
  • 00:08:18.100 --> 00:08:19.200
  • NO QUESTION.
  • 00:08:19.200 --> 00:08:20.220
  • IT'S A TRANSFORMATIONAL MOMENT.
  • 00:08:20.220 --> 00:08:22.290
  • IT'S AN EPOCHAL MOMENT
  • 00:08:22.290 --> 00:08:24.180
  • IN HISTORY.
  • 00:08:24.180 --> 00:08:26.220
  • I GUESS-- TELL US A LITTLE BIT--
  • 00:08:26.220 --> 00:08:28.280
  • AGAIN, FOR FOLKS THAT ARE TOO
  • 00:08:28.280 --> 00:08:30.090
  • YOUNG TO KNOW ABOUT THE
  • 00:08:30.090 --> 00:08:32.270
  • SOLIDARITY MOVEMENT AND POLAND
  • 00:08:32.270 --> 00:08:34.140
  • BECAUSE THIS WAS-- HE WAS A VERY
  • 00:08:34.140 --> 00:08:36.180
  • CANNY PLAYER ON THE WORLD STAGE.
  • 00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:38.080
  • HE WASN'T JUST A POPE.
  • 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:38.250
  • HE UNDERSTOOD THAT HE HAD
  • 00:08:38.260 --> 00:08:41.260
  • THE ABILITY TO SHAPE THE
  • 00:08:41.260 --> 00:08:42.200
  • FATE OF NATIONS,
  • 00:08:42.200 --> 00:08:43.290
  • INCLUDING HIS OWN POLAND.
  • 00:08:43.290 --> 00:08:46.010
  • - ROBERT: WELL, LET'S NOT
  • 00:08:46.010 --> 00:08:46.220
  • FORGET, THE ITALIANS CHOSE A
  • 00:08:46.220 --> 00:08:48.170
  • POLISH POPE OUT OF AN
  • 00:08:48.170 --> 00:08:51.070
  • EASTERN BLOC COUNTRY, SO THEY
  • 00:08:51.070 --> 00:08:52.080
  • WERE REALLY WISE IN WHAT THEY
  • 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:53.170
  • DID 'CAUSE THEY UNDERSTOOD THE
  • 00:08:53.170 --> 00:08:54.160
  • GEOPOLITICAL FACTORS GOING ON.
  • 00:08:54.160 --> 00:08:56.070
  • THERE WAS ALSO-- THERE'S A
  • 00:08:56.070 --> 00:08:58.000
  • TRIANGULATION AT THE TIME, IF
  • 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.140
  • YOU GET INTO THE POLITICS AND
  • 00:08:59.140 --> 00:09:00.260
  • WANT TO LOOK AT THIS A LITTLE
  • 00:09:00.260 --> 00:09:02.170
  • BIT MORE IN THE NON-FAITH SENSE,
  • 00:09:02.170 --> 00:09:03.280
  • BUT ALSO THE POPE HAS TO DEAL
  • 00:09:03.280 --> 00:09:06.020
  • WITH A LOT OF BISHOPS THAT ARE
  • 00:09:06.020 --> 00:09:07.190
  • IN SOUTH AMERICA THAT ARE
  • 00:09:07.190 --> 00:09:08.080
  • CREATING WITH THE MARXISTS
  • 00:09:08.080 --> 00:09:09.060
  • JOINING AGAIN THE REVOLUTIONS IN
  • 00:09:09.060 --> 00:09:10.120
  • THE SOUTH THAT REAGAN HAS TO
  • 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:11.160
  • DEAL WITH.
  • 00:09:11.160 --> 00:09:13.210
  • SO THERE'S A TRIANGULATION HERE
  • 00:09:13.210 --> 00:09:14.260
  • BECAUSE THE POPE ALSO BECOMES
  • 00:09:14.260 --> 00:09:15.170
  • INFLUENTIAL FOR THE
  • 00:09:15.170 --> 00:09:16.030
  • UNITED STATES TO KIND OF
  • 00:09:16.030 --> 00:09:17.090
  • KEEP DOWN THE MORE RADICAL
  • 00:09:17.090 --> 00:09:18.190
  • BISHOPS IN SOUTH AMERICA.
  • 00:09:18.190 --> 00:09:20.040
  • SO THERE'S-- WE CAN GO ON AND ON
  • 00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:21.110
  • ABOUT THIS BUT-- SO YOU CAN'T
  • 00:09:21.110 --> 00:09:22.280
  • THINK OF-- LIKE YOU SAID
  • 00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:24.140
  • EARLIER, THIS IS A TIME WHEN
  • 00:09:24.140 --> 00:09:25.240
  • GIANTS WALKED THE EARTH, AND
  • 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:27.010
  • THEN YOU HAVE THATCHER AND
  • 00:09:27.010 --> 00:09:28.110
  • GORBACHEV, AND, YOU KNOW, IT'S
  • 00:09:28.110 --> 00:09:29.090
  • LIKE ACME CASTING.
  • 00:09:29.090 --> 00:09:31.100
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:09:31.100 --> 00:09:31.260
  • - ERIC: WELL, GORBACHEV IS THE
  • 00:09:31.260 --> 00:09:32.180
  • ONLY ONE WHO'S STILL LIVING.
  • 00:09:32.180 --> 00:09:34.030
  • BUT, YES, IT IS EXTRAORDINARY.
  • 00:09:34.030 --> 00:09:36.110
  • OKAY, SO THE FILM IS OUT
  • 00:09:36.110 --> 00:09:38.070
  • IT'S ONE OF THESE CLASSIC
  • 00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:44.200
  • ONE-NIGHT ONLY.
  • 00:09:44.200 --> 00:09:45.120
  • SO WHATEVER YOU'RE DOING, IT'S A
  • 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:46.040
  • WEDNESDAY COMIN' UP REAL SOON,
  • 00:09:46.040 --> 00:09:47.000
  • NOVEMBER 6TH.
  • 00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:50.020
  • IT'S GONNA BE IN THEATERS
  • 00:09:50.020 --> 00:09:51.100
  • AND THE TITLE OF THE MOVIE IS
  • 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:54.110
  • THE SAME AS THE BOOK?
  • 00:09:54.110 --> 00:09:54.280
  • - ROBERT: YES.
  • 00:09:54.280 --> 00:09:55.120
  • - ERIC: "THE DIVINE PLAN."
  • 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:56.220
  • ALL RIGHT, FOLKS,
  • 00:09:56.220 --> 00:09:58.030
  • DON'T GO AWAY.
  • 00:09:58.030 --> 00:09:58.220
  • - PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN: YOU
  • 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:04.220
  • AND I HAVE A RENDEZVOUS
  • 00:10:04.220 --> 00:10:05.230
  • WITH DESTINY.
  • 00:10:05.230 --> 00:10:06.260
  • WE'LL PRESERVE FOR OUR CHILDREN
  • 00:10:06.260 --> 00:10:09.010
  • THIS, THE LAST BEST HOPE OF MAN
  • 00:10:09.010 --> 00:10:10.290
  • ON EARTH, OR WE'LL SENTENCE THEM
  • 00:10:10.290 --> 00:10:12.180
  • TO TAKE THE LAST STEP INTO A
  • 00:10:12.180 --> 00:10:14.050
  • THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS.
  • 00:10:14.050 --> 00:10:16.100
  • - CRAIG SHIRLEY: POPE JOHN
  • 00:10:16.100 --> 00:10:17.040
  • PAUL II IS A DAGGER AIMED
  • 00:10:17.040 --> 00:10:18.180
  • RIGHT AT THE THROAT OF
  • 00:10:18.180 --> 00:10:19.260
  • THE SOVIET UNION.
  • 00:10:19.260 --> 00:10:21.030
  • [BANG]
  • 00:10:22.220 --> 00:10:25.220
  • - MALE ANNOUNCER: A
  • 00:10:25.220 --> 00:10:26.080
  • DESPERATE TIME.
  • 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:28.130
  • - H.W. BRANDS: OTHER AMERICAN
  • 00:10:28.130 --> 00:10:29.040
  • PRESIDENTS TRIED TO FIGURE OUT
  • 00:10:29.040 --> 00:10:30.050
  • HOW TO MANAGE THE COLD WAR.
  • 00:10:30.050 --> 00:10:31.180
  • REAGAN WANTED TO WIN THE
  • 00:10:31.180 --> 00:10:32.130
  • COLD WAR.
  • 00:10:32.130 --> 00:10:34.050
  • - ANNOUNCER: A WORLD DIVIDED
  • 00:10:34.050 --> 00:10:35.170
  • BY SUPERPOWERS.
  • 00:10:35.170 --> 00:10:37.250
  • - PRESIDENT REAGAN: WHEN A
  • 00:10:37.250 --> 00:10:39.130
  • GOVERNMENT ABUSES THE RIGHTS OF
  • 00:10:39.130 --> 00:10:41.060
  • ITS OWN PEOPLE, IT IS A GRIM
  • 00:10:41.060 --> 00:10:42.230
  • INDICATION OF ITS WILLINGNESS TO
  • 00:10:42.230 --> 00:10:45.080
  • COMMIT VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHERS.
  • 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:47.070
  • - PAUL KENGOR: THE REAL BIG
  • 00:10:47.070 --> 00:10:48.240
  • BATTLE OF THE 20TH CENTURY WAS
  • 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:51.040
  • BETWEEN THE FORCES OF GOOD
  • 00:10:51.040 --> 00:10:53.010
  • VERSUS THE FORCES OF EVIL.
  • 00:10:53.130 --> 00:10:56.130
  • - ANNOUNCER: TWO BOYS RAISED
  • 00:10:56.130 --> 00:10:57.110
  • DURING VIOLENT TIMES,
  • 00:10:57.150 --> 00:11:00.170
  • WHO WOULD BECOME A PRESIDENT
  • 00:11:00.170 --> 00:11:02.260
  • AND A POPE.
  • 00:11:06.090 --> 00:11:09.090
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:11:11.020 --> 00:11:14.020
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:11:14.020 --> 00:11:16.250
  • - ERIC: HEY, FOLKS, IT'S
  • 00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:17.140
  • "THE ERIC METAXAS SHOW."
  • 00:11:17.140 --> 00:11:18.040
  • YOU CAN TELL BY THE
  • 00:11:18.040 --> 00:11:18.270
  • BUMPER MUSIC.
  • 00:11:18.270 --> 00:11:19.280
  • OKAY, LISTEN, ROBERT ORLANDO,
  • 00:11:19.280 --> 00:11:21.080
  • YOU GREW UP IN NEW YORK CITY.
  • 00:11:21.080 --> 00:11:22.230
  • WHEN DID YOU KNOW THAT YOU
  • 00:11:24.230 --> 00:11:27.230
  • WANTED TO BECOME A FILMMAKER?
  • 00:11:27.230 --> 00:11:29.110
  • - ROBERT: I GOT IT-- WELL, WHEN
  • 00:11:29.110 --> 00:11:30.030
  • I WAS A KID, LIKE, EIGHT, NINE,
  • 00:11:30.030 --> 00:11:31.040
  • TEN YEARS OLD, I WAS MAKIN'
  • 00:11:31.040 --> 00:11:31.250
  • FILMS WITH MY FRIENDS.
  • 00:11:31.250 --> 00:11:32.260
  • - ERIC: WHOA.
  • 00:11:32.260 --> 00:11:33.100
  • - ROBERT: SO, YEAH, JUST
  • 00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:33.290
  • SCRATCHING-- GETTING THE, YOU
  • 00:11:33.290 --> 00:11:34.210
  • THE 8, SUPER 8, AND SCRATCHING,
  • 00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:39.080
  • LIKE, THE MAGICAL, YOU KNOW, THE
  • 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:40.000
  • TWO WIZARDS WOULD BE FIGHTING IT
  • 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:41.030
  • OUT, AND YOU'D SCRATCH OUT SO
  • 00:11:41.030 --> 00:11:43.010
  • THE-- I'D PUT MY FINGERS OUT,
  • 00:11:43.010 --> 00:11:44.200
  • - ERIC: ARE YOU SERIOUS?
  • 00:11:47.130 --> 00:11:48.040
  • - ROBERT: SO, YEAH, SO WE DID
  • 00:11:48.040 --> 00:11:48.270
  • THAT, AND THEN, LATER, AFTER I
  • 00:11:48.270 --> 00:11:49.270
  • GRADUATED, I HAD KIND OF A
  • 00:11:49.270 --> 00:11:50.270
  • COUPLE OF YEARS IN A GLORIFIED
  • 00:11:50.270 --> 00:11:51.250
  • HIGH SCHOOL IN COLLEGE, IF YOU
  • 00:11:51.250 --> 00:11:53.230
  • KNOW WHAT I MEAN, WHERE I WAS
  • 00:11:53.230 --> 00:11:55.050
  • JUST, KIND OF, HANGIN' AROUND,
  • 00:11:55.050 --> 00:11:55.290
  • NOT KNOWIN' WHAT I WANTED TO DO,
  • 00:11:55.290 --> 00:11:56.230
  • BUT IT WAS INTERESTING 'CAUSE,
  • 00:11:56.230 --> 00:11:57.230
  • AT THE SAME TIME THAT I
  • 00:11:57.230 --> 00:11:58.250
  • WOULD--IF YOU'RE CATHOLIC,
  • 00:11:58.250 --> 00:11:59.290
  • YOU'LL SAY, "RENEWAL."
  • 00:11:59.290 --> 00:12:01.060
  • IF YOU'RE A PROTESTANT,
  • 00:12:01.060 --> 00:12:02.080
  • YOU MIGHT SAY, "CONVERTED."
  • 00:12:02.080 --> 00:12:03.010
  • BUT AT 17, 18, I FELT LIKE
  • 00:12:03.010 --> 00:12:04.060
  • I STARTED TO OPEN MYSELF
  • 00:12:04.060 --> 00:12:05.140
  • UP TO "WHAT IS MY
  • 00:12:05.140 --> 00:12:06.150
  • SPIRITUAL JOURNEY?
  • 00:12:06.150 --> 00:12:07.030
  • WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?"
  • 00:12:07.030 --> 00:12:07.270
  • AND AT THE SAME TIME MY FAITH
  • 00:12:07.270 --> 00:12:09.170
  • JOURNEY BEGAN, I THINK, OR IT
  • 00:12:09.170 --> 00:12:11.200
  • WAS AT LEAST LAUNCHED, IN THE
  • 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:13.020
  • REAL SENSE, WHAT RETURNED WAS MY
  • 00:12:13.020 --> 00:12:15.070
  • PASSION FOR FILM AND MY PASSION
  • 00:12:15.070 --> 00:12:16.280
  • FOR LEARNING, AND MULTIMEDIA
  • 00:12:16.280 --> 00:12:18.170
  • THINGS, WHATEVER, AND I ALWAYS
  • 00:12:18.170 --> 00:12:19.230
  • FELT LIKE THAT WAS MY CALLING,
  • 00:12:19.230 --> 00:12:21.110
  • FROM THEN FORWARD, AND SO FAR,
  • 00:12:21.110 --> 00:12:22.260
  • SO GOOD.
  • 00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:23.280
  • - ERIC: I WAS GONNA SAY, "SO
  • 00:12:23.280 --> 00:12:25.030
  • FAR, SO GOOD," BECAUSE YOU JUST
  • 00:12:25.030 --> 00:12:25.250
  • DIRECTED A GREAT MOVIE.
  • 00:12:25.250 --> 00:12:26.160
  • IT'S GONNA BE IN THEATERS
  • 00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:27.270
  • NOVEMBER 6TH, ONLY, FOLKS.
  • 00:12:27.270 --> 00:12:29.210
  • NOVEMBER 6TH IS THE DATE ON THE
  • 00:12:29.210 --> 00:12:31.030
  • CALENDAR, SO YOU NEED TO MARK IT
  • 00:12:31.030 --> 00:12:32.160
  • DOWN.
  • 00:12:32.160 --> 00:12:33.220
  • IT'S CALLED "THE DIVINE PLAN."
  • 00:12:33.220 --> 00:12:34.290
  • YOU SAID IT'S A DOCUDRAMA.
  • 00:12:34.290 --> 00:12:35.240
  • SO I WAS JOKING BEFORE, "WHO
  • 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:37.010
  • PLAYS REAGAN?"
  • 00:12:37.010 --> 00:12:37.220
  • REAGAN PLAYS REAGAN.
  • 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:39.100
  • THERE'S-- REAGAN IS IN THE FILM,
  • 00:12:39.100 --> 00:12:40.200
  • JOHN PAUL II IS IN THE FILM, AND
  • 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:42.040
  • YOU HAVE SOME REENACTMENTS, BUT
  • 00:12:42.040 --> 00:12:42.260
  • YOU DON'T REALLY--
  • 00:12:42.260 --> 00:12:43.260
  • - ROBERT: WELL, I THOUGHT
  • 00:12:43.260 --> 00:12:45.020
  • BECAUSE I WAS GOING AFTER THE
  • 00:12:45.020 --> 00:12:46.140
  • YOUNG AUDIENCE, ESPECIALLY THE
  • 00:12:46.140 --> 00:12:47.240
  • MILLENNIALS WHO DON'T KNOW
  • 00:12:47.240 --> 00:12:49.120
  • ANYTHING ABOUT THE '80s--AND
  • 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:50.110
  • THAT'S PRETTY SCARY.
  • 00:12:50.110 --> 00:12:50.290
  • THAT'S ONLY 30 YEARS AGO.
  • 00:12:50.290 --> 00:12:51.230
  • WHEN I DID THE SCREENING, DOWN
  • 00:12:51.230 --> 00:12:53.010
  • IN FLORIDA, I SAID TO THE
  • 00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:56.220
  • AUDIENCE-- IT WAS JUNE 6TH.
  • 00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:57.190
  • I SAID, "I THINK, IN A WAY, THIS
  • 00:12:57.190 --> 00:12:59.050
  • IS OUR D-DAY, IN THE SAME WAY,
  • 00:12:59.050 --> 00:13:00.090
  • GROWING UP, WE WOULD THINK
  • 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:01.230
  • ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE BOYS
  • 00:13:01.230 --> 00:13:02.240
  • HITTING THE BEACH IN NORMANDY,
  • 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:04.190
  • BUT THIS COULD BE OUR D-DAY
  • 00:13:04.190 --> 00:13:05.160
  • BECAUSE IT ENDED WITHOUT THE
  • 00:13:05.160 --> 00:13:06.150
  • WORLD WAR, BUT, ACTUALLY, THE
  • 00:13:06.150 --> 00:13:07.160
  • SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS WAS THE
  • 00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:08.200
  • TURNING POINT FOR MODERN
  • 00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:09.090
  • HISTORY.
  • 00:13:09.090 --> 00:13:10.220
  • BUT I DON'T THINK THEY'RE
  • 00:13:10.220 --> 00:13:12.030
  • GETTING THAT, SO TWO THOUGHTS
  • 00:13:12.030 --> 00:13:13.050
  • CAME TO MIND: ONE WAS, IF YOU'RE
  • 00:13:13.050 --> 00:13:14.080
  • LOOKING AT HOLLYWOOD NOW, THAT'S
  • 00:13:14.080 --> 00:13:15.280
  • ALL THEY DO IS MAKE SUPERHERO
  • 00:13:15.280 --> 00:13:16.190
  • FILMS.
  • 00:13:16.190 --> 00:13:17.030
  • THAT WAS ONE.
  • 00:13:17.030 --> 00:13:17.170
  • AND NUMBER TWO IS, I THOUGHT, IF
  • 00:13:17.170 --> 00:13:18.260
  • YOU PRESENT FRESH, NEW MATERIAL,
  • 00:13:18.260 --> 00:13:21.030
  • BUT YOU PUT AN OLD CAST-- YOU
  • 00:13:21.030 --> 00:13:21.280
  • KNOW, LIKE, IF YOU CAST IT IN AN
  • 00:13:21.280 --> 00:13:22.260
  • OLD LIGHT, FOR INSTANCE, THE
  • 00:13:22.260 --> 00:13:24.210
  • TYPICAL STOCK FOOTAGE AND THOSE
  • 00:13:24.210 --> 00:13:26.230
  • TYPE OF THINGS, SO I ACTUALLY
  • 00:13:26.230 --> 00:13:27.200
  • FASHIONED THIS AS A GRAPHIC
  • 00:13:27.200 --> 00:13:29.120
  • NOVEL, A HARD-HITTING GRAPHIC
  • 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:31.060
  • NOVEL WITH THEM BEING LIKE
  • 00:13:31.060 --> 00:13:32.160
  • MYTHICAL FIGURES, KIND OF,
  • 00:13:32.160 --> 00:13:34.000
  • "BOOM, BAM, BAM," YOU KNOW, THAT
  • 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:34.260
  • KIND OF STUFF--
  • 00:13:34.260 --> 00:13:36.030
  • - ERIC: BUT THEY ARE LIKE
  • 00:13:36.030 --> 00:13:36.220
  • SUPERHEROES.
  • 00:13:36.220 --> 00:13:37.080
  • I MEAN, WHEN WE WERE GROWING UP,
  • 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:38.120
  • NOBODY BELIEVED THAT THE SOVIET
  • 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.200
  • UNION COULD GO AWAY.
  • 00:13:40.200 --> 00:13:42.100
  • I MEAN, WE JUST THOUGHT, LIKE,
  • 00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:43.110
  • IT'S GONNA BE THERE FOREVER.
  • 00:13:43.110 --> 00:13:44.010
  • IT'S BEEN THERE SINCE, YOU KNOW,
  • 00:13:44.010 --> 00:13:45.240
  • 1917.
  • 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:46.240
  • IT'S GONNA BE THERE FOREVER.
  • 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:47.160
  • - ROBERT: SURE.
  • 00:13:47.160 --> 00:13:48.000
  • - ERIC: AND IT WENT AWAY
  • 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.030
  • BECAUSE OF THESE TWO MEN WHO YOU
  • 00:13:49.030 --> 00:13:50.280
  • PUT IN THIS FILM TO TELL THE
  • 00:13:50.280 --> 00:13:52.260
  • STORY HOW THEY WERE USED.
  • 00:13:52.260 --> 00:13:54.190
  • IF ONE OF THEM HAD EXISTED AND
  • 00:13:54.190 --> 00:13:57.180
  • THE OTHER ONE DIDN'T, THIS
  • 00:13:57.180 --> 00:13:58.200
  • WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE.
  • 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:00.200
  • YOU NEEDED THESE TWO PEOPLE WHO
  • 00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:02.040
  • WERE SENSITIVE TO HISTORY TO,
  • 00:14:02.040 --> 00:14:03.260
  • KIND OF, FIGURE OUT "WHAT CAN WE
  • 00:14:03.260 --> 00:14:05.010
  • DO TOGETHER?"
  • 00:14:05.010 --> 00:14:06.280
  • AND, OF COURSE, MARGARET
  • 00:14:06.280 --> 00:14:07.210
  • THATCHER IS INVOLVED.
  • 00:14:07.210 --> 00:14:08.290
  • SHE WASN'T AS--
  • 00:14:08.290 --> 00:14:11.010
  • - ROBERT: TO YOUR POINT THERE,
  • 00:14:11.010 --> 00:14:11.240
  • I SAID THEY ARE VERY DIFFERENT
  • 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:12.230
  • PEOPLE IF YOU JUST TREAT 'EM IN
  • 00:14:12.230 --> 00:14:14.030
  • THEIR CONTEXT AND GEOGRAPHY,
  • 00:14:14.030 --> 00:14:15.220
  • WHERE THEY COME FROM, BUT IF YOU
  • 00:14:15.220 --> 00:14:17.190
  • GET DOWN TO THEIR CORE MISSION,
  • 00:14:17.190 --> 00:14:18.220
  • THE IDEA OF HOW THEY EXPERIENCED
  • 00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:20.170
  • COMMUNISM, BOTH FROM THE
  • 00:14:20.170 --> 00:14:21.220
  • UNIONS AND--
  • 00:14:21.220 --> 00:14:23.020
  • - ERIC: THEY BOTH
  • 00:14:23.020 --> 00:14:23.230
  • HATED COMMUNISM.
  • 00:14:23.230 --> 00:14:24.100
  • - ROBERT: HATED COMMUNISM, AND
  • 00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:25.070
  • THEY BOTH ALWAYS CONTINUED
  • 00:14:25.070 --> 00:14:26.090
  • WITH A FAITH.
  • 00:14:26.090 --> 00:14:27.060
  • AS MUCH AS THEY STRUGGLED AND
  • 00:14:27.060 --> 00:14:28.130
  • SUFFERED, THERE WAS ALWAYS A
  • 00:14:28.130 --> 00:14:29.090
  • RETURN TO "THIS IS ALL
  • 00:14:29.090 --> 00:14:30.150
  • FOR A REASON.
  • 00:14:30.150 --> 00:14:31.150
  • THIS IS ALL HAPPENING
  • 00:14:31.150 --> 00:14:32.040
  • FOR A REASON.
  • 00:14:32.040 --> 00:14:32.190
  • I NEED TO KEEP ACTING AND KEEP
  • 00:14:32.190 --> 00:14:33.270
  • EXPLORING AND FINDING
  • 00:14:33.270 --> 00:14:35.180
  • THE DIVINE PLAN."
  • 00:14:35.180 --> 00:14:36.250
  • SO THOSE THINGS ARE
  • 00:14:36.250 --> 00:14:37.290
  • VERY COMMON.
  • 00:14:37.290 --> 00:14:39.040
  • - ERIC: ONE THING THAT I DON'T
  • 00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:39.260
  • KNOW IF YOU TOUCH ON IT IN THE
  • 00:14:39.260 --> 00:14:41.040
  • BOOK OR IN THE FILM, "THE
  • 00:14:41.040 --> 00:14:42.040
  • DIVINE PLAN," BUT BOTH OF THESE
  • 00:14:42.040 --> 00:14:44.020
  • GREAT FIGURES WERE ALMOST
  • 00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:46.040
  • KILLED.
  • 00:14:46.140 --> 00:14:49.140
  • THEY WERE SHOT, AND THEY
  • 00:14:49.140 --> 00:14:50.090
  • SURVIVED.
  • 00:14:50.090 --> 00:14:52.270
  • - ROBERT: WITHIN SIX WEEKS OF
  • 00:14:52.270 --> 00:14:53.210
  • ONE ANOTHER.
  • 00:14:53.210 --> 00:14:54.100
  • - ERIC: OH, I DIDN'T REALIZE
  • 00:14:54.100 --> 00:14:55.010
  • THAT.
  • 00:14:55.010 --> 00:14:55.120
  • - ROBERT: YES, THAT THE-- IF
  • 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.030
  • YOU WANNA TALK DRAMATICALLY, THE
  • 00:14:57.030 --> 00:14:57.250
  • INCITING INCIDENT OF THIS BOOK,
  • 00:14:57.250 --> 00:14:59.020
  • IN THIS FILM, MARCH 30TH, 1981,
  • 00:14:59.020 --> 00:15:01.090
  • AND MAY 13TH, 1981.
  • 00:15:01.090 --> 00:15:02.150
  • THEY MEET AT THE VATICAN THE
  • 00:15:02.150 --> 00:15:04.150
  • NEXT YEAR, IN 1982, AND
  • 00:15:04.150 --> 00:15:05.160
  • CONFESSED TO EACH OTHER THAT
  • 00:15:05.160 --> 00:15:06.230
  • THEY THOUGHT THEY WERE BOTH
  • 00:15:06.230 --> 00:15:08.110
  • SPARED FOR A HIGHER PURPOSE, A
  • 00:15:08.110 --> 00:15:10.020
  • DIVINE PLAN.
  • 00:15:10.020 --> 00:15:11.070
  • - ERIC: ROBERT, WE GOTTA TALK
  • 00:15:11.070 --> 00:15:11.280
  • ABOUT THIS.
  • 00:15:11.280 --> 00:15:12.180
  • I WAS SAYING THAT I'M A VERY
  • 00:15:12.180 --> 00:15:14.060
  • PRO-CATHOLIC, NON-CATHOLIC,
  • 00:15:14.060 --> 00:15:15.240
  • BECAUSE CHUCK COLSON, HE'S ONE
  • 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.140
  • OF THE MEN IN MY "7 MEN" BOOK,
  • 00:15:17.140 --> 00:15:19.080
  • THE OTHER MAN, ONE OF THE OTHER
  • 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.130
  • MEN, IS JOHN PAUL II, IN MY "7
  • 00:15:21.130 --> 00:15:23.030
  • MEN" BOOK, AND CHUCK COLSON WAS
  • 00:15:23.030 --> 00:15:24.160
  • THE ONE WHO MADE ME UNDERSTAND
  • 00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:25.240
  • THAT, IN THESE SECULAR TIMES,
  • 00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:28.120
  • THOSE OF US WHO ARE CHRISTIANS
  • 00:15:28.170 --> 00:15:31.170
  • NEED TO UNDERSTAND WE'RE WORKING
  • 00:15:31.170 --> 00:15:34.010
  • TOGETHER ON SO MANY THINGS, AND
  • 00:15:34.010 --> 00:15:36.000
  • THAT STRIKES ME AS A SIGNIFICANT
  • 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.020
  • COMPONENT OF THIS WORKING
  • 00:15:38.020 --> 00:15:40.190
  • RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN RONALD
  • 00:15:40.190 --> 00:15:41.200
  • REAGAN, WHO WAS A VERY FUZZY
  • 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:44.030
  • KIND OF, SORT OF, ALMOST
  • 00:15:44.030 --> 00:15:47.030
  • EVANGELICAL, AND JOHN PAUL II,
  • 00:15:47.030 --> 00:15:48.270
  • WHO WAS, AS CATHOLIC, AS THE
  • 00:15:48.270 --> 00:15:50.280
  • POPE HIMSELF--IN FACT, I THINK
  • 00:15:50.280 --> 00:15:52.160
  • HE WAS THE POPE AND CATHOLIC
  • 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:55.040
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:55.200
  • -- BUT WHAT A COOL CONCEPT.
  • 00:15:55.200 --> 00:15:57.090
  • - ROBERT: MM-HMM, YEAH, NO, I
  • 00:15:57.090 --> 00:15:58.050
  • THINK THE COMMON MISSION HERE--
  • 00:15:58.050 --> 00:15:59.260
  • I SHOULD TAKE A STEP BACK.
  • 00:15:59.260 --> 00:16:01.160
  • I MADE THIS FILM LARGELY DURING
  • 00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:02.250
  • THE TRUMP ELECTION, SO, LET'S
  • 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:04.260
  • JUST SAY, THERE WAS SOME POISON
  • 00:16:04.260 --> 00:16:06.070
  • IN THE AIR, YOU THINK?
  • 00:16:06.070 --> 00:16:07.110
  • LIKE, SOME CYNICISM AND POISON--
  • 00:16:07.110 --> 00:16:08.200
  • - ERIC: YEAH, I'M SO GLAD
  • 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:09.090
  • THAT'S GONE AWAY.
  • 00:16:09.090 --> 00:16:11.040
  • SO I WOULDN'T SAY YOU APPROACH A
  • 00:16:13.140 --> 00:16:14.060
  • FILM FROM A POINT OF-- YOU'RE
  • 00:16:14.060 --> 00:16:14.270
  • NOT RATIONALIZING IT, BUT IN
  • 00:16:14.270 --> 00:16:16.210
  • THE-- LET'S SAY, IT WAS IN THE
  • 00:16:16.210 --> 00:16:18.040
  • SOUP THAT I WAS, KIND OF, EATING
  • 00:16:18.040 --> 00:16:19.180
  • AT THE TIME, AND I WAS LIKE,
  • 00:16:19.180 --> 00:16:21.170
  • "WHAT STORY COULD WE TELL THAT
  • 00:16:21.170 --> 00:16:23.050
  • WOULD KIND OF BYPASS THIS OR
  • 00:16:23.050 --> 00:16:23.250
  • TRANSCEND THIS LEVEL OF
  • 00:16:23.250 --> 00:16:24.200
  • AND I THOUGHT, "IF YOU CAN'T GET
  • 00:16:26.260 --> 00:16:27.280
  • BEHIND THIS-- WELL, LET'S START
  • 00:16:27.280 --> 00:16:29.030
  • JUST AS A HUMAN BEING.
  • 00:16:29.030 --> 00:16:30.200
  • IF YOU CAN'T GET BEHIND, LIKE
  • 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.000
  • BRINGING DOWN A WALL WHERE
  • 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:33.040
  • PEOPLE ARE AT GUNPOINT, AND THEY
  • 00:16:33.040 --> 00:16:34.070
  • HAVE A HISTORY OF MURDERING 60
  • 00:16:34.070 --> 00:16:35.100
  • MILLION PEOPLE, IF YOU CAN'T GET
  • 00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:36.200
  • PAST THAT, HOW ABOUT, JUST,
  • 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.040
  • LIKE, IN THE MODERN WORLD, LET'S
  • 00:16:38.040 --> 00:16:39.110
  • FIND COMMON GROUND AS CHRISTIANS
  • 00:16:39.110 --> 00:16:40.050
  • AND PUT ASIDE THEOLOGICAL,
  • 00:16:40.050 --> 00:16:42.000
  • DOCTRINAL CONSIDERATION, OR
  • 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:42.210
  • PERCEPTIONS?
  • 00:16:42.260 --> 00:16:45.260
  • AND WE'RE ALL AGAINST
  • 00:16:45.260 --> 00:16:46.210
  • CORRUPTION, AND I GET IT ALL,
  • 00:16:46.210 --> 00:16:47.130
  • AND START BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE
  • 00:16:47.130 --> 00:16:48.170
  • IN COMMON IS SO MUCH MORE
  • 00:16:48.170 --> 00:16:49.230
  • POWERFUL THAN THE FORCES WE'RE
  • 00:16:49.230 --> 00:16:50.210
  • AGAINST, AND THIS NEEDS TO BE
  • 00:16:50.210 --> 00:16:51.140
  • SAID.
  • 00:16:51.140 --> 00:16:52.180
  • - ERIC: WELL SAID.
  • 00:16:52.180 --> 00:16:53.040
  • AND, LISTEN, AND IF YOU DON'T
  • 00:16:53.040 --> 00:16:54.200
  • UNDERSTAND 60 MILLION PEOPLE,
  • 00:16:54.200 --> 00:16:55.260
  • THAT'S THE SOVIET UNION, FOLKS,
  • 00:16:55.260 --> 00:16:57.030
  • AND IF YOU'RE NOT AWARE OF THAT
  • 00:16:57.030 --> 00:16:58.250
  • HISTORY, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A
  • 00:16:58.250 --> 00:17:00.050
  • CHRISTIAN TO THINK THAT THE
  • 00:17:00.050 --> 00:17:01.030
  • MURDER OF 60 MILLION PEOPLE IS
  • 00:17:01.030 --> 00:17:02.110
  • EVIL.
  • 00:17:02.110 --> 00:17:04.000
  • IT IS EVIL.
  • 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:05.080
  • I WANNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT
  • 00:17:05.080 --> 00:17:06.160
  • THE FACT THAT YOU'RE A FILMMAKER
  • 00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.130
  • BECAUSE I THINK THERE ARE A LOT
  • 00:17:08.130 --> 00:17:09.200
  • OF PEOPLE THAT ARE-- THEY HAVE
  • 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:11.120
  • SIMILAR SENSIBILITIES THAT WE
  • 00:17:11.120 --> 00:17:14.070
  • MIGHT ABOUT GOD OR THE UNIVERSE,
  • 00:17:14.070 --> 00:17:16.250
  • BUT THEY DON'T UNDERSTAND THAT
  • 00:17:16.250 --> 00:17:19.100
  • ONE OF THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAYS
  • 00:17:19.100 --> 00:17:20.240
  • TO COMMUNICATE THAT IS THROUGH
  • 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:21.280
  • FILM, THROUGH MEDIA.
  • 00:17:21.280 --> 00:17:22.280
  • - ROBERT: A STORY.
  • 00:17:22.280 --> 00:17:23.190
  • - ERIC: I DO IT IN THIS MEDIUM,
  • 00:17:23.190 --> 00:17:25.230
  • BUT YOU DO IT THROUGH FILM, AND
  • 00:17:25.230 --> 00:17:28.110
  • YOU'RE A LOVER OF FILM, AND THAT
  • 00:17:28.110 --> 00:17:29.290
  • DOESN'T JUST MEAN, QUOTE,
  • 00:17:29.290 --> 00:17:31.090
  • UNQUOTE, CHRISTIAN FILMS, IN
  • 00:17:31.090 --> 00:17:32.120
  • FACT, PROBABLY MEANS, IN SPITE
  • 00:17:32.120 --> 00:17:34.010
  • OF WHAT PASSES FOR CHRISTIAN
  • 00:17:34.020 --> 00:17:37.020
  • FILMS TODAY.
  • 00:17:37.020 --> 00:17:38.110
  • - ROBERT: WELL, DON'T ACTUALLY
  • 00:17:38.110 --> 00:17:39.210
  • KNOW-- I DON'T BUY INTO THE
  • 00:17:39.210 --> 00:17:41.010
  • "CHRISTIAN FILM."
  • 00:17:41.010 --> 00:17:42.200
  • I'M NOT SURE IF I BUY
  • 00:17:42.200 --> 00:17:43.210
  • THAT WHOLE MONIKER.
  • 00:17:43.210 --> 00:17:44.220
  • - ERIC: I DON'T EITHER.
  • 00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:45.150
  • - ROBERT: SO DO YOU WANT A
  • 00:17:45.150 --> 00:17:46.120
  • CHRISTIAN PILOT FLYING THE PLANE
  • 00:17:46.120 --> 00:17:47.240
  • OR A GOOD PILOT?
  • 00:17:47.240 --> 00:17:49.080
  • - ERIC: YOU KNOW WHAT?
  • 00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:49.260
  • DO YOU KNOW WHO THE ONLY PERSON
  • 00:17:49.260 --> 00:17:51.000
  • I'VE EVER HEARD SAY THAT BEFORE?
  • 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:51.220
  • ERIC METAXAS.
  • 00:17:51.220 --> 00:17:53.150
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:17:53.150 --> 00:17:54.090
  • I'M NOT KIDDING.
  • 00:17:54.090 --> 00:17:55.190
  • WE THINK SIMILARLY.
  • 00:17:55.190 --> 00:17:56.050
  • - ROBERT: I GOTTA SAY--
  • 00:17:56.050 --> 00:17:56.240
  • LET ME GET THIS OUT FOR THE--
  • 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:57.150
  • YOUR NAME, YOU KNOW,
  • 00:17:57.150 --> 00:17:58.050
  • WAS LIKE A GREEK
  • 00:17:58.050 --> 00:17:58.250
  • GOD, BY THE WAY.
  • 00:17:58.250 --> 00:17:59.250
  • IF I'M DOING A FILM ON A GREEK
  • 00:17:59.250 --> 00:18:00.200
  • GOD, "METAXAS"-- DID YOU MAKE
  • 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:02.030
  • THAT UP FOR STAGE?
  • 00:18:02.030 --> 00:18:02.210
  • - ERIC: NO.
  • 00:18:02.210 --> 00:18:03.130
  • - ROBERT: THAT'S IMPRESSIVE--
  • 00:18:03.130 --> 00:18:04.170
  • - ERIC: "METAXA" IS A VERY
  • 00:18:04.170 --> 00:18:05.070
  • FAMOUS COGNAC.
  • 00:18:05.070 --> 00:18:06.080
  • IF YOU GET OUT OF THE-- IF YOU
  • 00:18:06.080 --> 00:18:07.270
  • GET IN THE AIRPORT IN ATHENS,
  • 00:18:07.270 --> 00:18:08.260
  • YOU SEE "METAXA, METAXA,
  • 00:18:08.260 --> 00:18:10.090
  • METAXA," EVERYWHERE.
  • 00:18:10.090 --> 00:18:11.080
  • IT'S KIND OF A FAMOUS NAME IN
  • 00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:12.140
  • HISTORY.
  • 00:18:12.140 --> 00:18:13.070
  • THE "ERIC" IS BECAUSE MY
  • 00:18:13.070 --> 00:18:14.220
  • MOTHER'S GERMAN.
  • 00:18:14.220 --> 00:18:16.090
  • MY PARENTS, YOU KNOW, MET HERE
  • 00:18:16.090 --> 00:18:17.190
  • IN NEW YORK.
  • 00:18:17.190 --> 00:18:18.130
  • - ROBERT: THERE'S THE LUTHERAN,
  • 00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:19.060
  • THE LUTHERAN PIECE.
  • 00:18:19.060 --> 00:18:20.010
  • - ERIC: THAT'S RIGHT.
  • 00:18:20.010 --> 00:18:20.190
  • THAT, AND THE BONHOEFFER, YEAH.
  • 00:18:20.190 --> 00:18:21.110
  • - ROBERT: SO LET ME GO BACK TO
  • 00:18:21.110 --> 00:18:22.030
  • THE STORY.
  • 00:18:22.030 --> 00:18:22.140
  • SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE WEST,
  • 00:18:22.140 --> 00:18:23.180
  • IN GENERAL, YOU HAVE THE OLD
  • 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:25.040
  • TESTAMENT STORIES, YOU HAVE "THE
  • 00:18:25.040 --> 00:18:25.270
  • ILIAD."
  • 00:18:25.270 --> 00:18:27.110
  • THAT BECOMES "THE AENEID,"
  • 00:18:27.110 --> 00:18:28.290
  • WHICH IS A REACTION THAT--
  • 00:18:28.290 --> 00:18:29.230
  • I DON'T KNOW IF YOU KNOW,
  • 00:18:29.230 --> 00:18:30.120
  • BUT LUKE IS SHAPED AFTER
  • 00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:31.290
  • "THE AENEID," ABOUT THE JOURNEY
  • 00:18:31.290 --> 00:18:32.290
  • WEST WITH THE FIRES
  • 00:18:32.290 --> 00:18:33.200
  • AND THE SHIPWRECKS.
  • 00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:36.000
  • - ERIC: I'VE NEVER HEARD
  • 00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:36.190
  • THAT IN MY LIFE.
  • 00:18:36.190 --> 00:18:37.050
  • - ROBERT: IT'S STORIES
  • 00:18:37.050 --> 00:18:37.230
  • DEFINE US.
  • 00:18:37.230 --> 00:18:38.130
  • NOW, WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?
  • 00:18:38.130 --> 00:18:39.030
  • - ERIC: I'M MAKIN' A
  • 00:18:39.030 --> 00:18:39.200
  • DOCUMENTARY ON THE "ODYSSEY."
  • 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:40.110
  • - ROBERT: REALLY?
  • 00:18:40.110 --> 00:18:40.260
  • - ERIC: NO JOKE.
  • 00:18:40.260 --> 00:18:41.110
  • WE'LL TALK LATER.
  • 00:18:41.110 --> 00:18:41.280
  • - ROBERT: OKAY.
  • 00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:42.120
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:18:42.120 --> 00:18:43.050
  • - ERIC: TALK LATER.
  • 00:18:43.050 --> 00:18:43.210
  • - ROBERT: WE'LL TALK LATER.
  • 00:18:43.210 --> 00:18:44.110
  • - ERIC: YEAH.
  • 00:18:44.110 --> 00:18:44.240
  • - ROBERT: SO BUT MY POINT IS
  • 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:45.170
  • THAT, IF YOU THINK THE BEDROCK
  • 00:18:45.170 --> 00:18:46.080
  • OF ALL OUR LIVES IS
  • 00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:48.110
  • STORYTELLING, ORIGINALLY IT WAS
  • 00:18:48.110 --> 00:18:49.160
  • ORAL HISTORY.
  • 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:50.090
  • IT WASN'T EVEN WRITTEN DOWN.
  • 00:18:50.090 --> 00:18:51.110
  • IT WAS CARRIED ON.
  • 00:18:51.110 --> 00:18:52.180
  • BUT WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?
  • 00:18:52.180 --> 00:18:53.240
  • BECAUSE, WHEN WE SAY "STORIES,"
  • 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:54.280
  • WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LEGACY, AND
  • 00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:56.080
  • I THINK WHAT THE LEFT DOES
  • 00:18:56.080 --> 00:18:57.290
  • TODAY-- AND I'VE BEEN ON A LOT
  • 00:18:57.290 --> 00:18:59.080
  • WHAT THE LEFT DOES IS IT
  • 00:19:01.140 --> 00:19:02.020
  • UNDERMINES YOUR ABILITY TO LEAN
  • 00:19:02.020 --> 00:19:02.240
  • ON YOUR LEGACY AS BEING
  • 00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.120
  • SOMETHING THAT FORTIFIES YOU,
  • 00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:04.130
  • WHAT YOU CAN BE.
  • 00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:05.250
  • IT'S ALL IMMORAL, IT'S ALL
  • 00:19:05.250 --> 00:19:08.010
  • RACIST, IT'S ALL COLONIALISM,
  • 00:19:08.010 --> 00:19:08.220
  • IT'S ALL-- IF YOU COULD
  • 00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:09.100
  • UNDERMINE AND MAKE IMMORAL
  • 00:19:09.100 --> 00:19:10.060
  • YOUR LEGACY.
  • 00:19:10.060 --> 00:19:11.120
  • SO TELLING STORIES LIKE THAT WAS
  • 00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:12.190
  • WORTHY OF SACRIFICE TO GO TO
  • 00:19:12.190 --> 00:19:14.100
  • THIS WAS WORTHY OF FIGHTING A
  • 00:19:16.080 --> 00:19:16.290
  • BATTLE AGAINST COMMUNISM.
  • 00:19:16.290 --> 00:19:17.230
  • THAT'S WHAT REINFORCES IT EVEN
  • 00:19:17.230 --> 00:19:19.030
  • THOUGH YOU HAVE TO ALWAYS
  • 00:19:19.030 --> 00:19:19.280
  • TRANSFORM--
  • 00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:21.070
  • - ERIC: WELL, THAT'S WHY YOU
  • 00:19:21.070 --> 00:19:21.280
  • NEED HEROES.
  • 00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:22.180
  • - ERIC: AND THAT'S WHY I'M A
  • 00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:25.120
  • FAN OF THIS BOOK AND THIS MOVIE,
  • 00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:26.040
  • "THE DIVINE PLAN," IN THEATERS
  • 00:19:26.040 --> 00:19:26.250
  • ONLY NOVEMBER 6TH, BECAUSE WE
  • 00:19:26.250 --> 00:19:28.070
  • NEED HEROES, AND WE KNOW THAT
  • 00:19:28.070 --> 00:19:30.090
  • WE KNOW THEY'RE HUMAN BEINGS.
  • 00:19:33.020 --> 00:19:33.240
  • THEY'RE SINNERS SAVED BY GRACE
  • 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:34.240
  • IF THEY'RE SAVED AT ALL, BUT THE
  • 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:37.050
  • FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT I'VE
  • 00:19:37.050 --> 00:19:38.020
  • WRITTEN A NUMBER OF BOOKS,
  • 00:19:38.020 --> 00:19:38.290
  • "7 MEN," "7 WOMEN,"
  • 00:19:38.290 --> 00:19:39.290
  • THAT WE NEED TO CELEBRATE
  • 00:19:39.290 --> 00:19:41.220
  • THESE HEROES, AND THAT'S
  • 00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:43.280
  • WHAT YOU DO HERE, AND IT'S
  • 00:19:43.280 --> 00:19:45.120
  • WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
  • 00:19:45.120 --> 00:19:46.070
  • WE NEED TO KNOW--
  • 00:19:46.070 --> 00:19:46.220
  • - ROBERT: BECAUSE, LIKE
  • 00:19:46.220 --> 00:19:48.230
  • SUPERHEROES, IT'S THE CHARACTER
  • 00:19:48.230 --> 00:19:49.200
  • THAT'S LARGER THAN THE LIFE, SO
  • 00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:51.020
  • IT'S NOT 'CAUSE NO ONE WILL HOLD
  • 00:19:51.020 --> 00:19:52.210
  • UP UNDER SCRUTINY, RIGHT?
  • 00:19:52.210 --> 00:19:53.220
  • NO ONE WILL.
  • 00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:54.170
  • - ERIC: THAT'S A FACT.
  • 00:19:54.170 --> 00:19:55.170
  • - ROBERT: YEAH.
  • 00:19:55.170 --> 00:19:56.040
  • - ERIC: BUT THERE ARE PEOPLE
  • 00:19:56.040 --> 00:19:57.040
  • DUMB ENOUGH TO THINK THAT THEY
  • 00:19:57.040 --> 00:19:58.020
  • WOULD, AND I'M HERE TO SAY,
  • 00:19:58.020 --> 00:19:58.260
  • "UH-UH."
  • 00:19:58.260 --> 00:19:59.170
  • - ROBERT: BUT IT WAS SOCRATES,
  • 00:19:59.170 --> 00:20:01.080
  • RIGHT?
  • 00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:01.250
  • "YOU KNOW NOTHING.
  • 00:20:01.250 --> 00:20:02.100
  • THE START OF ALL WISDOM IS YOU
  • 00:20:02.100 --> 00:20:04.080
  • KNOW NOTHING," BASICALLY.
  • 00:20:04.080 --> 00:20:04.270
  • SO THE POINT IS, HUMILITY IS THE
  • 00:20:04.270 --> 00:20:05.260
  • STARTING POINT OF
  • 00:20:05.260 --> 00:20:07.170
  • "I CAN'T DO IT."
  • 00:20:07.170 --> 00:20:08.040
  • "I CAN'T KNOW IT" IS WHERE
  • 00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:09.010
  • THE GREAT JOURNEY BEGINS FOR--
  • 00:20:09.010 --> 00:20:10.050
  • AND BY THE WAY, THE COMMON
  • 00:20:10.050 --> 00:20:11.100
  • GROUND FOR ME IS FILMMAKING.
  • 00:20:11.100 --> 00:20:12.210
  • IT'S STORYTELLING.
  • 00:20:12.210 --> 00:20:13.210
  • SO THAT'S THE FAIR SPACE OF
  • 00:20:13.210 --> 00:20:15.070
  • PUBLIC FORUM.
  • 00:20:15.070 --> 00:20:16.100
  • "I'M GONNA TELL YOU A REALLY
  • 00:20:16.100 --> 00:20:17.170
  • GREAT STORY.
  • 00:20:17.170 --> 00:20:18.140
  • TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK.
  • 00:20:18.140 --> 00:20:20.000
  • NOT, 'WHAT'S YOUR POLITICS?'
  • 00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:20.270
  • I DIDN'T WANNA GET INTO THAT.
  • 00:20:20.270 --> 00:20:21.180
  • I JUST WANNA TELL
  • 00:20:21.180 --> 00:20:22.030
  • YOU WHAT THIS--
  • 00:20:22.030 --> 00:20:22.270
  • I WANNA SHOW YOU A STORY."
  • 00:20:22.270 --> 00:20:23.160
  • "NO, NO, BUT WHERE ARE
  • 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:24.030
  • YOU COMING FROM ON THEOLOGY?
  • 00:20:24.030 --> 00:20:24.230
  • ARE YOU, LIKE, AGAINST THIS OR
  • 00:20:24.230 --> 00:20:25.140
  • FOR THAT?"
  • 00:20:25.140 --> 00:20:26.090
  • I'M LIKE, "I'M NOT THERE."
  • 00:20:26.090 --> 00:20:26.280
  • - ERIC: BUT YOU SEE, WHAT
  • 00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:28.040
  • YOU'RE TALKIN' ABOUT IS CALLED
  • 00:20:28.040 --> 00:20:28.290
  • "ART."
  • 00:20:28.290 --> 00:20:29.250
  • - ROBERT: MM-HMM.
  • 00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:30.260
  • - ERIC: ART IS NOT PROPAGANDA.
  • 00:20:30.260 --> 00:20:32.180
  • ART IS SOMETHING THAT IS
  • 00:20:32.210 --> 00:20:35.210
  • UNIVERSAL, AND IT LEADS US TO
  • 00:20:35.210 --> 00:20:37.290
  • THIS THING THAT WE CALL TRUTH,
  • 00:20:37.290 --> 00:20:39.290
  • AND I BELIEVE TRUTH IS THE GOD
  • 00:20:39.290 --> 00:20:41.010
  • OF THE BIBLE, BUT THE POINT IS,
  • 00:20:41.010 --> 00:20:42.070
  • YOU DON'T NEED TO BELIEVE THAT.
  • 00:20:42.070 --> 00:20:43.060
  • JUST BELIEVE IN THE STORY AND
  • 00:20:43.060 --> 00:20:45.020
  • SEE WHERE IT GOES AND WHERE IT
  • 00:20:45.020 --> 00:20:46.080
  • TAKES YOU, AND I THINK THAT
  • 00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:47.130
  • THERE ARE PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES
  • 00:20:47.130 --> 00:20:48.080
  • OF THE AISLE-- YOU HAVE LIBERALS
  • 00:20:48.080 --> 00:20:49.290
  • OFTEN CREATING A KIND OF LIBERAL
  • 00:20:49.290 --> 00:20:51.200
  • NARRATIVE PROPAGANDA, BUT THEN
  • 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.080
  • YOU HAVE PEOPLE ON THE RIGHT, OR
  • 00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.000
  • CHRISTIANS CREATING SOMETHING
  • 00:20:57.000 --> 00:20:58.210
  • THAT IT DOESN'T REALLY RISE TO
  • 00:20:58.210 --> 00:20:59.180
  • THE LEVEL OF "ART-ART."
  • 00:20:59.180 --> 00:21:01.070
  • IT'S KIND OF, YOU KNOW, LIKE A
  • 00:21:01.070 --> 00:21:02.210
  • PAINT-BY-NUMBERS FILM,
  • 00:21:02.210 --> 00:21:04.070
  • AND THESE THINGS
  • 00:21:04.070 --> 00:21:06.120
  • HAVE THEIR VALUE,
  • 00:21:06.120 --> 00:21:07.220
  • BUT THEY'RE NOT ART.
  • 00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:08.080
  • WE NEED REAL--
  • 00:21:08.080 --> 00:21:08.230
  • - ROBERT: THEY'RE NOT
  • 00:21:08.230 --> 00:21:09.100
  • UNIVERSAL.
  • 00:21:09.100 --> 00:21:09.240
  • - ERIC: WE NEED REAL ART,
  • 00:21:09.240 --> 00:21:10.130
  • AND WHAT YOU ARE TALKING
  • 00:21:10.130 --> 00:21:12.010
  • ABOUT IS ART.
  • 00:21:12.010 --> 00:21:12.170
  • - CAN I JUST-- I KNOW WE'RE
  • 00:21:12.170 --> 00:21:13.170
  • SHORT ON TIME, BUT ROMANS 8,
  • 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:14.070
  • PAUL WOULD SAY, RIGHT,
  • 00:21:14.070 --> 00:21:15.210
  • THAT ALL OF NATURE IS
  • 00:21:15.210 --> 00:21:17.200
  • GROANING FOR REDEMPTION.
  • 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:18.250
  • - ERIC: WAIT A MINUTE,
  • 00:21:18.250 --> 00:21:19.150
  • DO THE CATHOLICS READ
  • 00:21:19.150 --> 00:21:20.070
  • THE BIBLE NOW?
  • 00:21:20.070 --> 00:21:20.200
  • WHAT HAPPENED?
  • 00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:21.030
  • WHAT HAPPENED?
  • 00:21:21.030 --> 00:21:21.160
  • COME ON.
  • 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:22.090
  • - ROBERT: NO, THEY DON'T.
  • 00:21:22.090 --> 00:21:22.280
  • - ERIC: OKAY, SAY IT AGAIN,
  • 00:21:22.280 --> 00:21:23.180
  • GO AHEAD.
  • 00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:23.290
  • - ROBERT: ACTUALLY, I'M NOT
  • 00:21:23.290 --> 00:21:25.020
  • REALLY CATHOLIC.
  • 00:21:25.020 --> 00:21:25.160
  • NO, NO, I'M JOKING.
  • 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:26.050
  • - ERIC: I KNOW.
  • 00:21:26.050 --> 00:21:26.220
  • - ROBERT: ROMANS 8, PAUL SAYS
  • 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:27.270
  • THAT ALL OF NATURE GROANS,
  • 00:21:27.270 --> 00:21:30.110
  • WAITING FOR REDEMPTION, SO IT'S
  • 00:21:30.110 --> 00:21:31.140
  • NOT LIKE WE HAVE, LIKE,
  • 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:32.210
  • "THE CHRISTIAN PART
  • 00:21:32.210 --> 00:21:33.170
  • OF THE WORLD,"
  • 00:21:33.170 --> 00:21:34.030
  • AND THEN WE HAVE "THE WORLD."
  • 00:21:34.030 --> 00:21:35.030
  • THIS PURITAN IDEA OF, LIKE,
  • 00:21:35.030 --> 00:21:36.090
  • THERE'S TWO WORLDS IS A PLATONIC
  • 00:21:36.090 --> 00:21:37.190
  • HANGOVER FROM A WHOLE BUNCH OF--
  • 00:21:37.190 --> 00:21:39.150
  • - ERIC: IT IS NOT BIBLICAL.
  • 00:21:39.150 --> 00:21:40.150
  • - ROBERT: IT'S NOT BIBLICAL,
  • 00:21:40.150 --> 00:21:41.060
  • AND IT'S NOT UNIVERSAL, AND IT
  • 00:21:41.060 --> 00:21:41.270
  • DOESN'T LEND ITSELF THE STORIES
  • 00:21:41.270 --> 00:21:43.280
  • BECAUSE YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE
  • 00:21:43.280 --> 00:21:45.260
  • ANTI-BODY, ANTI-JUDGMENT, THEN
  • 00:21:45.260 --> 00:21:47.130
  • GOING BACK TO, LIKE--
  • 00:21:47.130 --> 00:21:48.120
  • - ERIC: THAT'S THE EASTERN--
  • 00:21:48.120 --> 00:21:49.060
  • THAT'S EASTERN RELIGION.
  • 00:21:49.060 --> 00:21:50.260
  • TRUE CHRISTIANITY AND THE
  • 00:21:50.260 --> 00:21:52.160
  • HEBREW SCRIPTURES ARE PRO-BODY,
  • 00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:55.160
  • PRO-HUMAN, PRO-INCARNATION.
  • 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:57.030
  • - ROBERT: THAT'S THE WHOLE IDEA
  • 00:21:57.030 --> 00:21:59.030
  • OF THE SACRAMENTAL WORLD VIEW.
  • 00:21:59.030 --> 00:22:00.100
  • - ERIC: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
  • 00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:01.040
  • - ROBERT: IT'S THE WHOLE
  • 00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:01.260
  • SACRAMENT.
  • 00:22:01.260 --> 00:22:02.170
  • IT'S THE BREAD AND THE MIRACLE.
  • 00:22:02.170 --> 00:22:03.090
  • IT'S BOTH.
  • 00:22:03.090 --> 00:22:03.250
  • IT'S NOT ONE-- SO THE BREAD IS
  • 00:22:03.250 --> 00:22:04.160
  • NOT BAD, MIRACLE GOOD, AND
  • 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:05.100
  • YOU'RE FOREVER IN THIS
  • 00:22:05.100 --> 00:22:06.260
  • GNOSTIC-CHASING OF SPIRITUAL
  • 00:22:06.260 --> 00:22:07.180
  • EXPERIENCES.
  • 00:22:07.180 --> 00:22:09.000
  • IT'S ABOUT THIS WORLD NOW.
  • 00:22:09.000 --> 00:22:09.290
  • IF YOU COME FROM THAT WORLD
  • 00:22:09.290 --> 00:22:11.080
  • PERSPECTIVE, YOU WON'T BE
  • 00:22:11.080 --> 00:22:12.230
  • FIGHTING THIS BINARY CHALLENGE
  • 00:22:12.230 --> 00:22:13.150
  • ALL THE TIME.
  • 00:22:13.150 --> 00:22:15.090
  • - ERIC: IF YOU READ THE PART ON
  • 00:22:15.090 --> 00:22:16.140
  • COMMUNION, TRANSUBSTANTIATION,
  • 00:22:16.260 --> 00:22:19.260
  • IN MY "LUTHER" BOOK, I THINK
  • 00:22:19.260 --> 00:22:20.270
  • IT'LL BLOW YOUR MIND 'CAUSE IT
  • 00:22:20.270 --> 00:22:21.220
  • GOT ME THINKING ABOUT
  • 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:22.290
  • THIS STUFF.
  • 00:22:22.290 --> 00:22:23.140
  • IT WAS SO FASCINATING TO BEGIN
  • 00:22:23.140 --> 00:22:25.050
  • TO UNDERSTAND WHY LUTHER
  • 00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:28.080
  • REJECTED ARISTOTLE AND THE
  • 00:22:28.080 --> 00:22:29.130
  • GREEKS BECAUSE, IN A WAY, HE
  • 00:22:29.130 --> 00:22:30.260
  • THOUGHT THAT THE CHURCH, THE
  • 00:22:30.260 --> 00:22:32.170
  • CATHOLIC CHURCH, WAS LEANING
  • 00:22:32.170 --> 00:22:35.090
  • TOWARD THAT KIND OF AN EASTERN
  • 00:22:35.090 --> 00:22:36.060
  • DUALISM.
  • 00:22:36.060 --> 00:22:36.280
  • ANYWAY, IT--
  • 00:22:36.280 --> 00:22:38.270
  • - ROBERT: WHAT WAS PAUL DOING?
  • 00:22:38.270 --> 00:22:39.270
  • BUT IF LUTHER IS AN ARCHETYPE OF
  • 00:22:39.270 --> 00:22:41.180
  • PAUL, WHAT IS PAUL DOING?
  • 00:22:41.180 --> 00:22:43.010
  • HE BELIEVES THAT THEY'VE GONE
  • 00:22:43.010 --> 00:22:44.100
  • TOO FAR TO-- THEY'RE HARDENED IN
  • 00:22:44.100 --> 00:22:46.160
  • THE LAW, THEY'RE HARDENED--
  • 00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:47.060
  • - ERIC: BINGO.
  • 00:22:47.060 --> 00:22:47.210
  • - ROBERT: -- AND THE POWER
  • 00:22:47.210 --> 00:22:48.140
  • HE IS JUST AN ARCHETYPE THAT
  • 00:22:51.020 --> 00:22:51.220
  • REPEAT-- AND, BY THE WAY,
  • 00:22:51.220 --> 00:22:52.110
  • KEEPS GOING.
  • 00:22:52.110 --> 00:22:52.290
  • KARL BARTH, IN THE 19TH CENTURY,
  • 00:22:53.080 --> 00:22:56.080
  • THROUGH TRANSCENDENCY.
  • 00:22:56.080 --> 00:22:57.070
  • THEY'RE ALL ARGUING AGAINST THE
  • 00:22:57.070 --> 00:22:57.290
  • EXACT THING WE ARE
  • 00:22:57.290 --> 00:22:58.140
  • - ERIC: HEY, ALBIN, HE'S NOT
  • 00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:00.110
  • STUPID.
  • 00:23:00.110 --> 00:23:00.220
  • IT'S NOT LIKE THEY SAY.
  • 00:23:00.220 --> 00:23:01.140
  • HE'S SMART.
  • 00:23:01.140 --> 00:23:02.010
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:23:02.010 --> 00:23:03.020
  • HE CAN DO THINGS-- OY.
  • 00:23:03.020 --> 00:23:04.030
  • - ROBERT: I COULD-- "I WAS
  • 00:23:04.030 --> 00:23:04.230
  • STEPPED OVER."
  • 00:23:04.230 --> 00:23:05.060
  • - ERIC: OH, MY GOSH, NOW THERE
  • 00:23:05.060 --> 00:23:05.280
  • ARE PEOPLE WHO DON'T GET
  • 00:23:05.280 --> 00:23:08.080
  • THAT REFERENCE.
  • 00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:08.240
  • THAT'S A "THE GODFATHER"-- IT'S
  • 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:09.160
  • SO CLASSIC.
  • 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:10.070
  • IT'S SO MYTHIC, IT'S AMAZING.
  • 00:23:10.070 --> 00:23:10.290
  • [ROBERT IMITATING VITO CORLEONE]
  • 00:23:10.290 --> 00:23:11.280
  • - ROBERT: "WHAT'D I EVER DO TO
  • 00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:12.240
  • MAKE YOU TREAT ME SO
  • 00:23:12.240 --> 00:23:13.100
  • DISRESPECTFULLY?"
  • 00:23:13.100 --> 00:23:14.030
  • - ERIC: OOH.
  • 00:23:14.030 --> 00:23:14.170
  • [ROBERT IMITATING VITO CORLEONE]
  • 00:23:14.170 --> 00:23:15.090
  • - ROBERT: "IF YOU WOULD'VE
  • 00:23:15.090 --> 00:23:16.080
  • INVITED ME ON YOUR SHOW, THEN
  • 00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:16.290
  • THIS VERY DAY, WELL, YOU
  • 00:23:16.290 --> 00:23:17.270
  • COULD'VE BEEN WORKIN' ON MY
  • 00:23:17.270 --> 00:23:18.170
  • DIVINE PLAN WITH ME."
  • 00:23:18.170 --> 00:23:19.250
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:23:19.250 --> 00:23:20.090
  • - ERIC: "THESE ANIMALS, WHAT
  • 00:23:20.090 --> 00:23:21.000
  • THEY DID TO MY DAUGHTER.
  • 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:21.240
  • I WANT YOU TO TAKE CARE OF THIS,
  • 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:22.160
  • GODFATHER."
  • 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:23.000
  • [ROBERT IMITATING VITO CORLEONE]
  • 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:23.220
  • - ROBERT: "LOOK AT HOW THEY
  • 00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:24.120
  • MASSACRED MY BOY."
  • 00:23:24.120 --> 00:23:24.280
  • [ERIC IMITATING VITO CORLEONE]
  • 00:23:24.280 --> 00:23:25.260
  • - ERIC: AH, "I WANT YOU TO USE
  • 00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:26.180
  • ALL YOUR POWERS."
  • 00:23:26.180 --> 00:23:27.030
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:23:27.030 --> 00:23:27.270
  • - ERIC: OKAY, NOW LISTEN,
  • 00:23:27.270 --> 00:23:29.020
  • FOLKS, THE FILM IS "THE DIVINE
  • 00:23:29.020 --> 00:23:29.290
  • PLAN" ABOUT JOHN PAUL II,
  • 00:23:29.290 --> 00:23:31.060
  • RONALD REAGAN.
  • 00:23:31.060 --> 00:23:32.220
  • THE DIRECTOR, MY NEW FRIEND,
  • 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:34.210
  • ROBERT ORLANDO.
  • 00:23:34.210 --> 00:23:35.230
  • IT'S IN THEATERS
  • 00:23:35.230 --> 00:23:37.160
  • NOVEMBER 6TH ONLY.
  • 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:38.180
  • ALWAYS, "THE DIVINE PLAN,"
  • 00:23:41.090 --> 00:23:41.280
  • ROBERT ORLANDO, A JOY.
  • 00:23:41.280 --> 00:23:43.060
  • THANKS FOR BEING MY GUEST.
  • 00:23:43.060 --> 00:23:43.250
  • - ROBERT: PLEASE HAVE ME BACK.
  • 00:23:43.250 --> 00:23:44.170
  • - ERIC: I WILL-- AND THAT'S
  • 00:23:46.030 --> 00:23:46.230
  • A THREAT.
  • 00:23:46.230 --> 00:23:47.040
  • - ROBERT: YEAH.
  • 00:23:47.040 --> 00:23:47.260
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:23:47.260 --> 00:23:48.130
  • "OTHERWISE, I'LL HAVE PEOPLE
  • 00:23:48.130 --> 00:23:49.030
  • TAKE CARE--"
  • 00:23:49.030 --> 00:23:50.110
  • - ERIC: RIGHT.
  • 00:23:50.110 --> 00:23:50.290
  • [LAUGHTER]
  • 00:23:50.290 --> 00:23:51.230
  • - PRESIDENT REAGAN: YOU AND I
  • 00:23:51.230 --> 00:23:52.140
  • HAVE A RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY.
  • 00:23:52.140 --> 00:23:53.290
  • [BANG]
  • 00:23:53.290 --> 00:23:55.190
  • WE'LL PRESERVE FOR OUR CHILDREN
  • 00:23:55.190 --> 00:23:56.230
  • THIS, THE LAST BEST HOPE OF MAN
  • 00:23:56.230 --> 00:23:58.220
  • ON EARTH, OR WE'LL SENTENCE THEM
  • 00:23:58.220 --> 00:24:00.090
  • TO TAKE THE LAST STEP INTO A
  • 00:24:00.090 --> 00:24:01.230
  • THOUSAND YEARS OF DARKNESS.
  • 00:24:01.230 --> 00:24:03.040
  • - CRAIG SHIRLEY: POPE JOHN
  • 00:24:03.040 --> 00:24:04.210
  • PAUL II IS A DAGGER AIMED RIGHT
  • 00:24:04.210 --> 00:24:06.080
  • AT THE THROAT OF THE
  • 00:24:06.080 --> 00:24:07.140
  • SOVIET UNION.
  • 00:24:07.140 --> 00:24:08.280
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:24:08.280 --> 00:24:10.090
  • [BANG]
  • 00:24:10.090 --> 00:24:12.070
  • - ANNOUNCER: A DESPERATE TIME.
  • 00:24:12.070 --> 00:24:15.060
  • - H.W. BRANDS: OTHER AMERICAN
  • 00:24:15.060 --> 00:24:17.010
  • PRESIDENTS TRIED TO FIGURE OUT
  • 00:24:17.010 --> 00:24:18.000
  • HOW TO MANAGE THE COLD WAR.
  • 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:19.180
  • REAGAN WANTED TO WIN THE
  • 00:24:19.180 --> 00:24:20.280
  • COLD WAR.
  • 00:24:20.280 --> 00:24:22.030
  • - ANNOUNCER: A WORLD DIVIDED
  • 00:24:22.030 --> 00:24:23.170
  • BY SUPERPOWERS.
  • 00:24:23.170 --> 00:24:25.020
  • - PRESIDENT REAGAN: WHEN A
  • 00:24:25.020 --> 00:24:26.230
  • GOVERNMENT ABUSES THE RIGHTS OF
  • 00:24:26.230 --> 00:24:28.080
  • ITS OWN PEOPLE, IT IS A GRIM
  • 00:24:28.080 --> 00:24:30.140
  • INDICATION OF ITS WILLINGNESS TO
  • 00:24:30.140 --> 00:24:32.110
  • COMMIT VIOLENCE AGAINST OTHERS.
  • 00:24:32.180 --> 00:24:35.180
  • - PAUL KENGOR: THE REAL BIG
  • 00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:36.080
  • BATTLE OF THE 20TH CENTURY WAS
  • 00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:38.010
  • BETWEEN THE FORCES OF GOOD
  • 00:24:38.010 --> 00:24:40.200
  • VERSUS THE FORCES OF EVIL.
  • 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:42.260
  • - ANNOUNCER: TWO BOYS RAISED
  • 00:24:42.260 --> 00:24:45.090
  • DURING VIOLENT TIMES, WHO WOULD
  • 00:24:46.150 --> 00:24:49.150
  • BECOME A PRESIDENT AND A POPE.
  • 00:24:52.170 --> 00:24:55.170
  • - POPE JOHN PAUL II: DO NOT
  • 00:24:55.170 --> 00:24:56.070
  • BE AFRAID.
  • 00:24:56.070 --> 00:24:56.290
  • DO NOT BE AFRAID.
  • 00:24:56.290 --> 00:24:59.230
  • [MUSIC]
  • 00:25:04.050 --> 00:25:07.050
  • - ANNE GRAHAM LOTZ: FAITH IS
  • 00:25:15.110 --> 00:25:16.200
  • NOT "I HOPE SO."
  • 00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:17.240
  • BIBLICAL FAITH IS
  • 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:18.170
  • AND YOUR CONFIDENCE IS IN THE
  • 00:25:20.080 --> 00:25:20.290
  • WORD OF GOD THAT IT'S TRUE, AND
  • 00:25:20.290 --> 00:25:21.210
  • HE KEEPS HIS WORD.
  • 00:25:21.210 --> 00:25:23.030
  • TO PUT IT THIS WAY, THE GROUND
  • 00:25:23.030 --> 00:25:23.240
  • IS LEVEL AT THE FOOT
  • 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:24.240
  • OF THE CROSS.
  • 00:25:24.240 --> 00:25:26.010
  • WE ALL HAVE TO COME TO THE FOOT
  • 00:25:26.010 --> 00:25:27.030
  • OF THE CROSS AND COME TO THE
  • 00:25:27.030 --> 00:25:28.030
  • VERY SAME PLACE TO CONFESS OUR
  • 00:25:28.030 --> 00:25:30.040
  • SIN, TO REPENT, AND TO GET
  • 00:25:30.040 --> 00:25:31.160