Let's Talk with Brian Houston | TBN

Let's Talk with Brian Houston

Watch Let's Talk with Brian Houston
September 3, 2017
26:01

Guest Matt Redman

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Let's Talk with Brian Houston

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  • of depression and suicide.
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  • The discussion does not take into account
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  • your specific situation or needs.
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  • If you or a family member require assistance,
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  • please seek help from a qualified health professional
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  • or visit hillsongchannel.com/help.
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  • Brian Houston: In this program,
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  • I'm talking to Matt Redman.
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  • Matt is an iconic worship leader, songwriter.
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  • He's won Grammy Awards, Dove Awards,
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  • he's written many books, and he's an awesome guy.
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  • We're talking about how he got into worship leading.
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  • Matt Redman: We were standing in the church car park,
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  • and the worship leader runs up and he says,
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  • "Hey, my guitar's broken," or something,
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  • "and I can't lead worship tonight.
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  • I wonder if there's any other way we could find anyone
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  • to lead tonight."
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  • And, you know, 5 minutes later, he's kind of tricked me
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  • into leading.
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  • Brian: We're talking about how Matt got through
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  • the tragic loss of his father.
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  • Matt: You know, you lose your dad, and then later
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  • you figure it out, you know, that he took his own life, and,
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  • "What is this thing called 'suicide'?"
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  • Brian: And how he manages his family life as a husband
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  • and father.
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  • Matt: I mean, I've had moments of,
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  • literally, years ago, changing a diaper on a tour bus,
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  • one of the little kids, and then, like, 2 minutes later,
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  • being on a stage with 30.000 people.
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  • Brian: I'm Brian Houston, "Let's Talk."
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  • Brian: I am excited today to be talking here on "Let's Talk"
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  • to Matt Redman.
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  • Matt is an amazing guy, number one,
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  • great worship leader, husband, author.
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  • You name it, he's done it.
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  • So, welcome, so good to have a chat to you.
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  • Matt: Thanks, Brian, it's great to be here.
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  • Brian: Good, good, good, so, you're an Englishman?
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  • Matt: I am, definitely, a subject of the queen.
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  • Brian: And that's something to be proud of?
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  • Matt: I hope so.
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  • Brian: [laughing] I think it is,
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  • I think it is.
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  • Many people would sing your songs,
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  • sometimes maybe even sing songs that you've written
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  • and they wouldn't even know where they came from,
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  • but I do know you've been a huge blessing to the church
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  • and to the, you know, the gospel and the kingdom.
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  • So, growing up in Watford, what was your childhood like?
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  • Matt: Well, I was, as a little kid,
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  • my brother and I wanted to go to church because all our friends
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  • did in the Sunday school.
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  • So my mum and dad didn't go to church.
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  • So we said to them, "Can you take us to church?"
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  • And long story short, they end up becoming Christians.
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  • But my dad had struggled a lot with depression,
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  • and when I was 7 years old, he actually took his own life.
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  • And so that was a--it was kind of a shocking thing at that age,
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  • a lot of questions.
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  • You know, "Was it anything to do with me?"
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  • And, you know, I grew up, pretty turbulent childhood,
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  • but the church was right there, and it was something that was
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  • a rock I could run to.
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  • It was a stabilizing place.
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  • It was a constant in my life, you know, all through childhood
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  • and teen years.
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  • Brian: That's actually amazing that you, you know,
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  • you found Christ, or Christ found you,
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  • at such a young age with so much difficulty about to be ahead
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  • of you in your childhood.
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  • Matt: Yeah, it's interesting, the timing.
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  • And actually, so, a few months after when my dad died,
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  • a group came from California in the States for the first time,
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  • a group of churches called The Vineyard,
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  • this guy called John Wimber, and they came to England
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  • for the first time, and they came to my church.
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  • And my mum, in her wisdom, took me along
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  • to this midweek meeting.
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  • I think I was one of the only kids there,
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  • honestly, this evening thing.
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  • And I just saw this worship music.
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  • He was singing at the piano, you know,
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  • this John Wimber guy, and there was kind of this California
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  • sound, but there was something more than the sound about it.
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  • It was the way they were talking to God and the dynamic
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  • that was happening in the room.
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  • And I, you know, I couldn't put it into words then,
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  • but now I'd say it was the people in the presence of God
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  • pouring out the praises of God.
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  • There was happening that I found so attractive and appealing,
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  • and it drew me in.
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  • And, you know, just, God's so kind, isn't he?
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  • You know, it was just literally, I think it was a month
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  • or 2 after my dad passed away, and I'm in that room,
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  • and he's planting something in my heart, you know?
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  • Brian: And who knew where it would all go?
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  • It's amazing, that little seed.
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  • Matt: I love it.
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  • Brian: So, at the time you lost your dad,
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  • you didn't actually know how he had died, did you?
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  • Matt: No, no, I didn't.
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  • Didn't know for a few years actually.
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  • So, it was, like, a little double blow in a way 'cause,
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  • you know, you lose your dad, and then later you figure it out,
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  • you know, that he took his own life,
  • 00:04:47.210 --> 00:04:50.020
  • and, "What is this thing called 'suicide'?"
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  • And tryin' to figure out this depression thing.
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  • You know, "What's that all about?"
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  • You know, and I got to grips with the Father heart of God
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  • pretty early on in life, mainly 'cause I really needed to,
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  • but I also had other people in my life who were,
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  • like, God just took care of me in amazing ways,
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  • just people who were mentoring and discipling and inputting
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  • into my life.
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  • Brian: And so then you ended up with a stepfather,
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  • and sort of grew up in the home with your mum,
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  • obviously, and a stepfather.
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  • And was that a good experience, or--?
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  • Matt: No, it was the opposite, to be honest.
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  • I mean, at first, I felt like I had a new dad, but this guy,
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  • he abused our trust as a family,
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  • and he treated me pretty terribly and he ended up
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  • in jail for a couple of years.
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  • And so, again, the home ends up fatherless,
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  • and, you know, I can remember, again,
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  • that was when something about my relationship with God,
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  • and particularly in terms of worship,
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  • started really kicking in.
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  • You know, I just found the psalms were,
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  • like, where I'd run to.
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  • You know, I think, you know, one thing I say is that the throne
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  • room of God, not only is it a place of reverence,
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  • but it's a place of refuge, you know?
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  • And if you want somewhere stable to hang out when the rest
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  • of the world's breakin' and shakin' apart,
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  • everything seems so fragile or temporary or turbulent,
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  • you can go there and everything's the same.
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  • You can there and, you know, that place won't be shaken.
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  • And, you know, I'd find myself in the Psalms,
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  • like Psalm 121, I remember, I mean,
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  • literally praying myself to sleep.
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  • You know, "I lift my eyes to the hills.
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  • Where does my help come from?"
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  • Brian: Would you have been a teenager then, or--?
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  • Matt: Yeah, like 14, 13.
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  • And so, something deep was growing in me about worship
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  • and worship music.
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  • And to be honest, even on a creative level,
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  • I loved it that right in the middle of this Bible,
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  • there's a songbook, 150 songs.
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  • Would have been the hymnbook of Jesus, right?
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  • And up till then, you've got, you know,
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  • a lot of drama.
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  • You've got a lot of stuff happening.
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  • You've got a lot of rules and regulations and definitions of
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  • what worship should look like.
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  • And then you've got this explosive songbook,
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  • and every imaginable emotion, and the psalmist just being
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  • real and raw.
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  • And it just lit something in me.
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  • I was like, "Yeah, I feel at home in these."
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  • Brian: Wow, that's a powerful thought,
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  • it would have been the songbook of Jesus.
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  • Matt: Yeah.
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  • Brian: Wow, for sure.
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  • Matt: Yeah, it's amazing, isn't it, if you think about it.
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  • I mean, we're singing some songs or pieces of songs
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  • that are 3.000 years old.
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  • And you're like, "Isn't that amazing that it still stands up
  • 00:07:26.080 --> 00:07:28.280
  • so well and how it still meets us where we're at?"
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  • It still helps us talk to God, I love it.
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  • Brian: For sure, so, how did you actually start getting
  • 00:07:33.080 --> 00:07:36.100
  • interested in music?
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  • Like, you obviously, it was in you, from what
  • 00:07:37.210 --> 00:07:39.180
  • you're saying now, but, like, when did you learn
  • 00:07:39.190 --> 00:07:41.190
  • to play music, et cetera?
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  • Matt: Well, some would say I still haven't learnt
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  • to play music, but that's a whole other subject.
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  • Brian: There wouldn't be too many.
  • 00:07:47.260 --> 00:07:49.050
  • Matt: I've been the worst musician in every band
  • 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:50.170
  • I've been in for, like, 20 years, but I'm cool with it.
  • 00:07:50.180 --> 00:07:54.060
  • You know, I think, what happened for me was I was loving
  • 00:07:54.070 --> 00:07:56.290
  • the worship music at church.
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  • I loved how when we got together and we started singing out
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  • to God and just how we would encounter him,
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  • and, you know, just feel like you're connecting with heaven.
  • 00:08:05.150 --> 00:08:08.090
  • And so I loved that, and I wanted to do that at home.
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  • So I started to learn guitar.
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  • I had no desire to be up the front leading people.
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  • In fact, I hated the thought of that.
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  • And so after a while, our youth leader,
  • 00:08:20.220 --> 00:08:23.290
  • a guy called Mike Pilavachi, he figured out that I was into
  • 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.120
  • worship and I could sing a bit and I was learning guitar
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  • and home, and so he asked me to lead worship,
  • 00:08:31.220 --> 00:08:35.060
  • and I said, "No."
  • 00:08:35.070 --> 00:08:36.170
  • And he asked me again. I said, "No."
  • 00:08:36.180 --> 00:08:38.030
  • And he asked me a lot of times.
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  • In the end, he set up some kind of elaborate hoax,
  • 00:08:39.260 --> 00:08:42.290
  • where we were standing in the church car park,
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  • and the worship leader runs up and he says,
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  • "Hey, my guitar's broken," or something,
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  • "and I can't lead worship tonight."
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  • And he just run off.
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  • And so me and Mike are standing there,
  • 00:08:56.220 --> 00:08:58.090
  • and Mike's like, "Oh, no, we can't have worship tonight.
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  • Yeah, it's really important to honor God through worship,
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  • isn't it, Matt?"
  • 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:05.090
  • And I was like, "Yeah."
  • 00:09:05.100 --> 00:09:06.190
  • And he goes, "I wonder if there's any other way we could
  • 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:08.240
  • find anyone to lead tonight."
  • 00:09:08.250 --> 00:09:10.080
  • And, you know, 5 minutes later, he's kind of tricked me into
  • 00:09:10.090 --> 00:09:13.180
  • leading for the first time.
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  • And I don't know how biblical it is to disciple people
  • 00:09:15.280 --> 00:09:18.060
  • with manipulation and--
  • 00:09:18.070 --> 00:09:20.240
  • Brian: But it worked.
  • 00:09:20.250 --> 00:09:22.040
  • [laughing]
  • 00:09:22.050 --> 00:09:23.140
  • Matt: You know, deception, but I'm so glad he did
  • 00:09:23.150 --> 00:09:25.000
  • because I loved it.
  • 00:09:25.010 --> 00:09:27.060
  • Brian: Coming up next:
  • 00:09:28.140 --> 00:09:30.010
  • Matt: I think it's one of the biggest challenges for us today.
  • 00:09:30.020 --> 00:09:33.270
  • How do you, in a contemporary, relevant,
  • 00:09:33.280 --> 00:09:38.240
  • striking way, you know, how do you paint a big picture of God?
  • 00:09:38.250 --> 00:09:44.000
  • Brian: A few months ago, I was in California.
  • 00:09:54.030 --> 00:09:56.240
  • I went over to Balboa Island down in Orange County,
  • 00:09:56.250 --> 00:10:00.020
  • and I was exercising, and sort of just half jogging,
  • 00:10:00.030 --> 00:10:04.040
  • half walking, but I could hear this music.
  • 00:10:04.050 --> 00:10:06.210
  • And it's still dark.
  • 00:10:06.220 --> 00:10:08.140
  • I could hear this music, and all of a sudden,
  • 00:10:08.150 --> 00:10:09.250
  • I think, "Oh, I know that song."
  • 00:10:09.260 --> 00:10:11.110
  • And it was "10.000 reasons."
  • 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.130
  • And so there was a lady walking in front of me with her
  • 00:10:13.140 --> 00:10:17.160
  • headphones on, but, obviously, she must have had the music
  • 00:10:17.170 --> 00:10:20.060
  • so loud.
  • 00:10:20.070 --> 00:10:21.160
  • And I was thinkin' about it at the time because,
  • 00:10:21.170 --> 00:10:23.150
  • obviously, you're British.
  • 00:10:23.160 --> 00:10:24.250
  • You come from, you know, a smaller town,
  • 00:10:24.260 --> 00:10:26.130
  • city in Britain, we're Australian,
  • 00:10:26.140 --> 00:10:29.040
  • and, you know, it's just incredible,
  • 00:10:29.050 --> 00:10:31.180
  • number one, how God can take one person and use their songs and
  • 00:10:31.190 --> 00:10:34.270
  • literally find them in villages in Africa or some lady walking,
  • 00:10:34.280 --> 00:10:40.140
  • you know, early in the morning in California,
  • 00:10:40.150 --> 00:10:42.240
  • to everywhere.
  • 00:10:42.250 --> 00:10:44.040
  • Do you see that as a privilege?
  • 00:10:44.050 --> 00:10:45.190
  • Matt: You know, I just was saying a minute ago,
  • 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:47.000
  • I'm not really a great musician.
  • 00:10:47.010 --> 00:10:49.060
  • I know what most of the chords are called,
  • 00:10:49.070 --> 00:10:51.230
  • you know, but I don't-- and when I got into this,
  • 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:55.270
  • it was kind of, it was nothing I thought I could ever do,
  • 00:10:55.280 --> 00:11:00.190
  • like, full time.
  • 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:01.290
  • And that song, "10.000 reasons," I remember,
  • 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:03.220
  • we'd just recorded that, and it was only out for,
  • 00:11:03.230 --> 00:11:06.020
  • you know, a couple of months, and we went over
  • 00:11:06.030 --> 00:11:08.070
  • to South Africa.
  • 00:11:08.080 --> 00:11:09.230
  • And we started up, you know, in the evening with the piano riff
  • 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:13.280
  • at the beginning of that, and the whole crowd just erupted.
  • 00:11:13.290 --> 00:11:16.170
  • I thought, "That's amazing, this song's traveled over here
  • 00:11:16.180 --> 00:11:18.130
  • before we have."
  • 00:11:18.140 --> 00:11:20.000
  • But funny thing is, I still have no clue which songs will do it.
  • 00:11:20.010 --> 00:11:23.000
  • So, like, way back, I wrote this song called
  • 00:11:23.010 --> 00:11:24.240
  • "The Heart of Worship," like 20 years ago, and it,
  • 00:11:24.250 --> 00:11:26.230
  • you know, I thought that was just my little song.
  • 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:28.230
  • I was never even gonna sing that in a congregation,
  • 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:30.240
  • you know?
  • 00:11:30.250 --> 00:11:32.040
  • And then it started getting some momentum and flying around
  • 00:11:32.050 --> 00:11:34.030
  • a bit, and not even with my songs, but other people's songs.
  • 00:11:34.040 --> 00:11:37.190
  • Tim Hughes played me "Here I Am to Worship."
  • 00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:39.170
  • I was the first person who ever heard that song 'cause we were
  • 00:11:39.180 --> 00:11:42.030
  • in the same church, and I think my exact words were:
  • 00:11:42.040 --> 00:11:45.020
  • "It's quite good, mate.
  • 00:11:45.030 --> 00:11:46.280
  • It's not as good as most of your others."
  • 00:11:46.290 --> 00:11:49.010
  • Brian: [laughing] I know that feeling.
  • 00:11:49.020 --> 00:11:50.110
  • Matt: And on the strength of that,
  • 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:51.210
  • he didn't play it to anyone for 6 months.
  • 00:11:51.220 --> 00:11:53.010
  • Then he played it to Mike, who was our pastor by then.
  • 00:11:53.020 --> 00:11:55.260
  • Brian: You give up prophesying after a while
  • 00:11:55.270 --> 00:11:57.120
  • which ones are gonna do well and which ones--
  • 00:11:57.130 --> 00:11:59.190
  • Matt: He's like, "Tim, that's the best song
  • 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.010
  • you've ever written.
  • 00:12:01.020 --> 00:12:02.110
  • Why didn't you play this to me earlier?"
  • 00:12:02.120 --> 00:12:03.250
  • He's like, "Oh, Matt said it wasn't very good."
  • 00:12:03.260 --> 00:12:05.100
  • So, got dobbed in there.
  • 00:12:05.110 --> 00:12:07.180
  • But, you know, it's funny, isn't it?
  • 00:12:07.190 --> 00:12:09.100
  • You just write your heart out.
  • 00:12:09.110 --> 00:12:10.270
  • You never know, and some of them fly around,
  • 00:12:10.280 --> 00:12:12.240
  • and, you know, go into the deepest places of
  • 00:12:12.250 --> 00:12:15.190
  • people's lives, and I love it.
  • 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.210
  • Brian: So, the songwriting part, when did that emerge?
  • 00:12:17.220 --> 00:12:20.260
  • Matt: Something was stirring in the UK in this youth
  • 00:12:20.270 --> 00:12:23.070
  • movement, and so, all these young people were gathering,
  • 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:26.260
  • and worship through music was such a huge part of what
  • 00:12:26.270 --> 00:12:29.280
  • God was doing.
  • 00:12:29.290 --> 00:12:31.080
  • But some of the songs we had were not quite the right fit.
  • 00:12:31.090 --> 00:12:34.200
  • It's like we had to find a new vocabulary to speak to God
  • 00:12:34.210 --> 00:12:38.020
  • in that generation.
  • 00:12:38.030 --> 00:12:39.210
  • So, that's where the songs started coming from,
  • 00:12:39.220 --> 00:12:41.110
  • were hugely impacted by Martin Smith and Delirious,
  • 00:12:41.120 --> 00:12:45.000
  • and the, you know, cutting edge back then,
  • 00:12:45.010 --> 00:12:47.150
  • what was happening.
  • 00:12:47.160 --> 00:12:48.250
  • Hugely impacted by, you know, a few leaders over from America.
  • 00:12:48.260 --> 00:12:52.110
  • But there was, the songwriting came as just a necessity of,
  • 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.250
  • like, you know, even those teenage years.
  • 00:12:55.260 --> 00:12:58.090
  • I had to write songs.
  • 00:12:58.100 --> 00:12:59.190
  • I needed to write them, you know,
  • 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:01.130
  • to talk to God, to process all that pain I was goin' through
  • 00:13:01.140 --> 00:13:04.080
  • and stuff.
  • 00:13:04.090 --> 00:13:05.180
  • But then, when this youth thing sprung up,
  • 00:13:05.190 --> 00:13:07.240
  • it became a necessity for that.
  • 00:13:07.250 --> 00:13:09.100
  • Brian: Do you still think that you often write your best
  • 00:13:09.110 --> 00:13:11.220
  • songs in your toughest times?
  • 00:13:11.230 --> 00:13:13.210
  • Matt: There's definitely something about that kind
  • 00:13:13.220 --> 00:13:15.210
  • of song.
  • 00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:17.050
  • When it comes from a very real, raw place,
  • 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:19.000
  • it is more likely to connect with that place in someone else.
  • 00:13:19.010 --> 00:13:22.180
  • You know, I say some of the best songs,
  • 00:13:22.190 --> 00:13:23.290
  • they're like a chapel and classroom.
  • 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:26.270
  • They're a classroom.
  • 00:13:26.280 --> 00:13:28.070
  • They teach you about God, remind you of something about him,
  • 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:30.240
  • but they're also a chapel.
  • 00:13:30.250 --> 00:13:32.110
  • They give you space to devote yourself,
  • 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.210
  • to reflect, to respond.
  • 00:13:34.220 --> 00:13:36.060
  • And I mean, one day, I was sitting and I was watching
  • 00:13:36.070 --> 00:13:38.020
  • this show.
  • 00:13:38.030 --> 00:13:39.120
  • It was one of these David Attenborough BBC things.
  • 00:13:39.130 --> 00:13:42.140
  • It was about the depths of the ocean,
  • 00:13:42.150 --> 00:13:44.170
  • and they were showing the blue whale.
  • 00:13:44.180 --> 00:13:45.280
  • You know, it's heart is the size of a family car or something,
  • 00:13:45.290 --> 00:13:50.070
  • and its tongue weighs as much as an elephant.
  • 00:13:50.080 --> 00:13:52.250
  • And the deeper they were going down in the ocean,
  • 00:13:52.260 --> 00:13:54.090
  • just this crazy stuff, this kinda looked like neon fish,
  • 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:58.100
  • you know, and these crazy creatures.
  • 00:13:58.110 --> 00:14:00.090
  • And then I glimpsed my daughter's goldfish
  • 00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:02.000
  • in the little bowl, you know, in the shallows there.
  • 00:14:02.010 --> 00:14:05.120
  • And I thought, "I wonder what that's like in worship
  • 00:14:05.130 --> 00:14:07.190
  • sometimes, where we're just messin' about in the shallows,
  • 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:10.230
  • you know, with this tame, ordinary, domesticated God,
  • 00:14:10.240 --> 00:14:13.270
  • and so manageable, and, you know, ordinary,
  • 00:14:13.280 --> 00:14:17.200
  • and actually, he's calling us into the deep."
  • 00:14:17.210 --> 00:14:20.050
  • And I thought, "It's so true."
  • 00:14:20.060 --> 00:14:21.150
  • Because sometimes the same way that I look at that TV screen
  • 00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:25.100
  • and this crazy stuff in the ocean,
  • 00:14:25.110 --> 00:14:26.270
  • and then this goldfish, sometimes I look at my Bible
  • 00:14:26.280 --> 00:14:29.060
  • and I see this, "God is holy, holy, holy,
  • 00:14:29.070 --> 00:14:31.220
  • and he's seated on his throne, never to be moved."
  • 00:14:31.230 --> 00:14:34.200
  • And he's, you know, he's just, he's righteous,
  • 00:14:34.210 --> 00:14:37.050
  • and he's majestic, and he's magnificent.
  • 00:14:37.060 --> 00:14:38.280
  • And some of the songs I'm writing or some of the songs
  • 00:14:38.290 --> 00:14:41.190
  • we're singing, they're not quite, you know, quite doing it.
  • 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.260
  • I think it's one of the biggest challenges for us today.
  • 00:14:44.270 --> 00:14:47.210
  • How do you, in a contemporary, relevant,
  • 00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:53.050
  • striking way, you know, how do you paint a big picture of God?
  • 00:14:53.060 --> 00:14:57.210
  • Brian: Yeah, that's beautiful.
  • 00:14:57.220 --> 00:14:59.010
  • I love hearing you describe these things.
  • 00:14:59.020 --> 00:15:01.120
  • You start a thousand different thoughts as you talk,
  • 00:15:01.130 --> 00:15:04.230
  • and you can tell.
  • 00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:06.030
  • I think there's a depth in you that's pretty powerful,
  • 00:15:06.040 --> 00:15:09.180
  • and it's no coincidence that your songs are so penetrating
  • 00:15:09.190 --> 00:15:12.130
  • and do bring such life to people.
  • 00:15:12.140 --> 00:15:14.210
  • Matt: Thanks, man.
  • 00:15:14.220 --> 00:15:16.010
  • Brian: So, in the middle of all of that,
  • 00:15:16.020 --> 00:15:17.160
  • if I can go back to songs for a minute,
  • 00:15:17.170 --> 00:15:19.090
  • you've won a Grammy Award, one or two or three?
  • 00:15:19.100 --> 00:15:22.260
  • Matt: Two, yeah.
  • 00:15:22.270 --> 00:15:24.060
  • Brian: Two, just a couple, and--
  • 00:15:24.070 --> 00:15:25.160
  • Matt: Same song.
  • 00:15:25.170 --> 00:15:26.270
  • Brian: All right, obviously, Dove Awards.
  • 00:15:26.280 --> 00:15:28.160
  • And so, you know, so all of that side of doing what you do,
  • 00:15:28.170 --> 00:15:33.280
  • being involved in Christian worship,
  • 00:15:33.290 --> 00:15:35.170
  • and being a performer, but more than that,
  • 00:15:35.180 --> 00:15:38.200
  • obviously, a songwriter and a worshiper,
  • 00:15:38.210 --> 00:15:40.160
  • how do you keep the main thing the main thing and keep doing
  • 00:15:40.170 --> 00:15:44.230
  • that diving into what really matters?
  • 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.290
  • Matt: You know, I heard super early on in life,
  • 00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:50.240
  • someone said, "You've gotta be ruthless with your heart."
  • 00:15:50.250 --> 00:15:54.220
  • You can't let a little-- you know, once you start
  • 00:15:54.230 --> 00:15:57.060
  • letting things creep in, they'll grow.
  • 00:15:57.070 --> 00:15:59.050
  • And so, you know, after something that's super exciting,
  • 00:15:59.060 --> 00:16:04.180
  • whether it be that night on the stage gettin' a couple of Grammy
  • 00:16:04.190 --> 00:16:07.040
  • Awards, whether it be leading at something that's super exciting,
  • 00:16:07.050 --> 00:16:10.090
  • you know, I've gotta take that moment to get down on my knees,
  • 00:16:10.100 --> 00:16:14.010
  • usually physically, right, and just remind myself who God is,
  • 00:16:14.020 --> 00:16:19.250
  • remind myself who I'm not, and who I am,
  • 00:16:19.260 --> 00:16:22.070
  • and just, you know?
  • 00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:23.270
  • And God finds a hundred ways to help you with that, you know?
  • 00:16:23.280 --> 00:16:27.250
  • I travel a lot with my younger brother.
  • 00:16:27.260 --> 00:16:30.110
  • He's 10 years younger. He's about a foot taller.
  • 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.020
  • Even that's a humiliating thing like that, right?
  • 00:16:33.030 --> 00:16:35.140
  • That'll keep you humble.
  • 00:16:35.150 --> 00:16:36.250
  • And, you know, and just the team I'm with,
  • 00:16:36.260 --> 00:16:39.090
  • and, you know, a lovely wife who, she's like
  • 00:16:39.100 --> 00:16:41.280
  • the Holy Spirit's special agent.
  • 00:16:41.290 --> 00:16:43.180
  • She's not gonna let me get away with anything, you know?
  • 00:16:43.190 --> 00:16:45.180
  • Like, you know, come home a bit proud or something,
  • 00:16:45.190 --> 00:16:49.010
  • or, you know, puffed up or something,
  • 00:16:49.020 --> 00:16:51.110
  • and, you know, I love that.
  • 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:52.210
  • And I love how God would do that.
  • 00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:55.030
  • And, you know, another example of how we did that,
  • 00:16:55.040 --> 00:16:57.210
  • so, "10.000 Reasons," yeah, we went to the Grammys.
  • 00:16:57.220 --> 00:17:00.130
  • We got those two awards.
  • 00:17:00.140 --> 00:17:01.230
  • So, I woke up the next day and one of the first emails I read
  • 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:03.240
  • was from this lady, and she was telling me this story of how her
  • 00:17:03.250 --> 00:17:09.030
  • uncle had come to know Christ, but he had cancer,
  • 00:17:09.040 --> 00:17:12.210
  • and "10.000 Reasons" had become his kind of theme song.
  • 00:17:12.220 --> 00:17:15.270
  • And he'd actually passed away, and in the hospital,
  • 00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:19.030
  • they'd all been with him and he wanted to hear this song.
  • 00:17:19.040 --> 00:17:21.180
  • And so she said, "During verse three of the song,
  • 00:17:21.190 --> 00:17:24.050
  • he passed away, went to be with Jesus,
  • 00:17:24.060 --> 00:17:26.060
  • and, you know, we had this song."
  • 00:17:26.070 --> 00:17:29.030
  • And I thought, "Man, I mean, last night was amazing.
  • 00:17:29.040 --> 00:17:33.140
  • I mean, you know, I won't forget that in a hurry,
  • 00:17:33.150 --> 00:17:36.280
  • and, you know, maybe that's part of God's entrustment for me,
  • 00:17:36.290 --> 00:17:41.070
  • I love that, these Grammys.
  • 00:17:41.080 --> 00:17:42.170
  • But this morning is a reminder of what it's really all about.
  • 00:17:42.180 --> 00:17:45.260
  • 'Cause this is the whole reason to write these songs.
  • 00:17:45.270 --> 00:17:48.180
  • I don't write songs for awards.
  • 00:17:48.190 --> 00:17:50.170
  • You know, I write songs for moments like this."
  • 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:52.200
  • Brian: Yeah, it's interesting,
  • 00:17:52.210 --> 00:17:54.000
  • Young & Free, Hillsong Young & Free,
  • 00:17:54.010 --> 00:17:55.100
  • they got a Grammy nomination.
  • 00:17:55.110 --> 00:17:57.260
  • I mean, they're very young.
  • 00:17:57.270 --> 00:17:59.060
  • They're awesome, they're great kids,
  • 00:17:59.070 --> 00:18:01.020
  • they're very young, very late teens, early 20s.
  • 00:18:01.030 --> 00:18:04.270
  • And so, we were all very excited for them,
  • 00:18:04.280 --> 00:18:07.280
  • but I think, for them, the savior--by the way,
  • 00:18:07.290 --> 00:18:10.180
  • they didn't win, but they got the nomination,
  • 00:18:10.190 --> 00:18:12.070
  • which is awesome.
  • 00:18:12.080 --> 00:18:13.170
  • But the savior for them, I think, amongst other things,
  • 00:18:13.180 --> 00:18:15.250
  • is just bein' part of a local church, a family.
  • 00:18:15.260 --> 00:18:18.060
  • Because when you're really inside a family,
  • 00:18:18.070 --> 00:18:19.200
  • like, inside your family, no matter what you have or haven't
  • 00:18:19.210 --> 00:18:22.260
  • done accomplishment-wise, you're just either dad or husband
  • 00:18:22.270 --> 00:18:27.080
  • or brother, you know?
  • 00:18:27.090 --> 00:18:29.090
  • And so, I just think, for me, personally,
  • 00:18:29.100 --> 00:18:31.260
  • I think local church and people being deeply connected there is
  • 00:18:31.270 --> 00:18:35.040
  • another thing that does the same thing.
  • 00:18:35.050 --> 00:18:36.290
  • It just keeps people grounded.
  • 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:38.150
  • Matt: Yeah, you need that ruthlessness.
  • 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:41.150
  • And I mean, I've had moments of, literally,
  • 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:44.100
  • years ago, changing a diaper on a tour bus,
  • 00:18:44.110 --> 00:18:47.230
  • one of the little kids, and then, like,
  • 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:49.170
  • 2 minutes later, being on a stage with 30.000 people,
  • 00:18:49.180 --> 00:18:53.000
  • and I love that.
  • 00:18:53.010 --> 00:18:54.110
  • Brian: Coming up after the break:
  • 00:18:55.010 --> 00:18:57.120
  • Matt: I think that's one of the hugest challenges facing
  • 00:18:57.130 --> 00:18:59.130
  • the church right now.
  • 00:18:59.140 --> 00:19:01.000
  • How do we navigate this and make sure that everything,
  • 00:19:01.010 --> 00:19:03.220
  • on Instagram or other social media networks,
  • 00:19:03.230 --> 00:19:07.240
  • that it looks like what the kingdom of God looks like?
  • 00:19:07.250 --> 00:19:10.200
  • Brian: So, tell us about you and Beth.
  • 00:19:20.290 --> 00:19:22.110
  • We haven't talked about Beth yet, yeah.
  • 00:19:22.120 --> 00:19:24.160
  • Matt: Well, she's the impressive one in our relationship.
  • 00:19:24.170 --> 00:19:29.010
  • Before, you know--I can be a little quiet or subdued,
  • 00:19:29.020 --> 00:19:34.050
  • and maybe it's the English reserve,
  • 00:19:34.060 --> 00:19:35.230
  • I don't know what it is, but you should have seen me before Beth.
  • 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.290
  • I mean, you're lucky if you got three words out of me
  • 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.050
  • in this interview.
  • 00:19:41.060 --> 00:19:42.150
  • The first radio interview I did before I met Beth,
  • 00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:45.210
  • they asked me the question, and then it was silence,
  • 00:19:45.220 --> 00:19:49.140
  • and then he said, "Matt, you can't hear nods on the radio."
  • 00:19:49.150 --> 00:19:52.280
  • So that's actually what happened to me.
  • 00:19:52.290 --> 00:19:54.180
  • So, like, Beth, she came along.
  • 00:19:54.190 --> 00:19:56.190
  • She's passionate, and she'll, just living for Jesus in a
  • 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:03.110
  • beautiful way, and I've loved partnering alongside her.
  • 00:20:03.120 --> 00:20:06.050
  • There so many songs I wouldn't have written without her,
  • 00:20:06.060 --> 00:20:08.200
  • so many places I wouldn't have gone.
  • 00:20:08.210 --> 00:20:10.030
  • There's so many things I wouldn't have said,
  • 00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:11.130
  • "Yes," to or dreamt up without her, and I love that.
  • 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:15.010
  • Brian: That's good, and so, you and her met in England,
  • 00:20:15.020 --> 00:20:18.000
  • I take it?
  • 00:20:18.010 --> 00:20:19.100
  • Matt: Yeah, she was in a worship, no,
  • 00:20:19.110 --> 00:20:21.120
  • an evangelistic, like, musical band, singing,
  • 00:20:21.130 --> 00:20:23.140
  • but we met in a church car park, and--
  • 00:20:23.150 --> 00:20:26.100
  • Brian: How romantic.
  • 00:20:26.110 --> 00:20:27.220
  • Matt: It was romantic, but holy, right.
  • 00:20:27.230 --> 00:20:29.040
  • Brian: [laughing]
  • 00:20:29.050 --> 00:20:30.140
  • Matt: We were doing real similar things,
  • 00:20:30.150 --> 00:20:32.060
  • and we just had a great connection straight away.
  • 00:20:32.070 --> 00:20:34.070
  • And, you know, I think God's, again,
  • 00:20:34.080 --> 00:20:35.240
  • kind, that we could go around, travel,
  • 00:20:35.250 --> 00:20:37.190
  • and we'd sing together, and then she was part of the songwriting,
  • 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.230
  • love that.
  • 00:20:40.240 --> 00:20:43.120
  • Brian: So, when you decided you were gonna get married,
  • 00:20:43.130 --> 00:20:45.290
  • however that happened, did you say,
  • 00:20:46.000 --> 00:20:47.210
  • "Let's get married and have five kids"?
  • 00:20:47.220 --> 00:20:50.100
  • Matt: Absolutely not, I was just doin' this thing,
  • 00:20:50.110 --> 00:20:52.270
  • like, I don't want a relationship,
  • 00:20:52.280 --> 00:20:54.070
  • don't wanna get married, don't want kids,
  • 00:20:54.080 --> 00:20:55.170
  • and you know?
  • 00:20:55.180 --> 00:20:56.270
  • And then I met her and realized, "Actually, this is beautiful.
  • 00:20:56.280 --> 00:20:59.140
  • We can partner in this."
  • 00:20:59.150 --> 00:21:00.260
  • And when the kids thing happened,
  • 00:21:00.270 --> 00:21:02.060
  • I was, like, "Ahh, that freaks me out," you know?
  • 00:21:02.070 --> 00:21:05.020
  • We ended up with five, so don't know how that happened,
  • 00:21:05.030 --> 00:21:07.250
  • but it's beautiful.
  • 00:21:07.260 --> 00:21:09.050
  • Brian: I think you're good at,
  • 00:21:09.060 --> 00:21:11.130
  • no matter where you are in the world,
  • 00:21:11.140 --> 00:21:12.230
  • just being who you are.
  • 00:21:12.240 --> 00:21:14.030
  • And that's not as easy as it looks sometimes.
  • 00:21:14.040 --> 00:21:15.140
  • It's so easy to sorta feel like you have to be this
  • 00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:18.020
  • to these people, or be that for--is that something
  • 00:21:18.030 --> 00:21:20.130
  • you're intentional about?
  • 00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:22.100
  • Matt: Yeah, I mean, obviously, integrity's a huge thing.
  • 00:21:22.110 --> 00:21:25.070
  • You know, can you be the same person
  • 00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:26.230
  • in different environments?
  • 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.030
  • And can you be the same person when no one's looking.
  • 00:21:28.040 --> 00:21:29.130
  • And, you know, and to date, I don't think there's probably
  • 00:21:29.140 --> 00:21:33.150
  • a day goes by where I don't think about all this
  • 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:35.270
  • social media stuff, and some of the particular challenges,
  • 00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:39.050
  • or, you know, they're opportunities and challenges
  • 00:21:39.060 --> 00:21:41.250
  • that we're faced with today.
  • 00:21:41.260 --> 00:21:43.050
  • I mean, I say that as a parent of teenagers,
  • 00:21:43.060 --> 00:21:45.230
  • and I say it to myself, and I say it as a leader.
  • 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.080
  • You know, what level of life should we share,
  • 00:21:48.090 --> 00:21:50.260
  • and what is that conveying.
  • 00:21:50.270 --> 00:21:52.260
  • You know, because I know the danger is that I'll convey
  • 00:21:52.270 --> 00:21:57.250
  • something on there which isn't actually a reality.
  • 00:21:57.260 --> 00:22:00.090
  • Maybe it's true, but in the context of the wider things,
  • 00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:03.250
  • I'm not actually quite as good as that,
  • 00:22:03.260 --> 00:22:06.050
  • you know, or as consistent as that.
  • 00:22:06.060 --> 00:22:08.250
  • And, you know, I don't know.
  • 00:22:08.260 --> 00:22:11.190
  • That's a whole other subject, but I think that's one
  • 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:14.030
  • of the hugest challenges facing the church right now.
  • 00:22:14.040 --> 00:22:17.010
  • How do we navigate this and make sure that everything,
  • 00:22:17.020 --> 00:22:20.030
  • on Instagram or other social media networks,
  • 00:22:20.040 --> 00:22:23.270
  • that it looks like what the kingdom of God looks like,
  • 00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:27.000
  • and that it has the same values that we had before this whole
  • 00:22:27.010 --> 00:22:30.010
  • social media thing came long?
  • 00:22:30.020 --> 00:22:32.120
  • Because if we get it right, the opportunity's immense,
  • 00:22:32.130 --> 00:22:34.070
  • isn't it, the way the kingdom of God can spread so fast.
  • 00:22:34.080 --> 00:22:37.240
  • You know, whether it's a message from you,
  • 00:22:37.250 --> 00:22:41.070
  • or a song, or a need we all need to get behind in the church,
  • 00:22:41.080 --> 00:22:45.040
  • we can mobilize this for great good.
  • 00:22:45.050 --> 00:22:48.240
  • But, obviously, it has its challenges too.
  • 00:22:48.250 --> 00:22:51.130
  • Brian: Yeah, so, speaking of challenges,
  • 00:22:51.140 --> 00:22:53.090
  • as an adult, you know, the more recent years of your life,
  • 00:22:53.100 --> 00:22:57.290
  • what's the most difficult thing you've had to go through?
  • 00:22:58.000 --> 00:23:02.070
  • Matt: Wow, that's a great question.
  • 00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:06.030
  • I think the most difficult thing is there's been a couple of
  • 00:23:06.040 --> 00:23:11.110
  • situations of being where you're waiting for an answer on
  • 00:23:11.120 --> 00:23:13.200
  • something, you're waiting for a breakthrough.
  • 00:23:13.210 --> 00:23:15.260
  • And, you know, whether it's extended family stuff or
  • 00:23:15.270 --> 00:23:19.190
  • different things, and the answer's not coming as quick as
  • 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:23.150
  • you want it to, and actually is going on for years.
  • 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:26.060
  • And I've had a lot of challenges in life,
  • 00:23:26.070 --> 00:23:28.280
  • and I had some challenges which needed months for a
  • 00:23:28.290 --> 00:23:31.140
  • breakthrough, but when you're faced with something that takes
  • 00:23:31.150 --> 00:23:33.200
  • a lot longer, and there's a lot more questions,
  • 00:23:33.210 --> 00:23:36.180
  • and there seems to be no resolve,
  • 00:23:36.190 --> 00:23:38.200
  • you know, I think it really marks what kind of worshiper
  • 00:23:38.210 --> 00:23:41.100
  • you're gonna be.
  • 00:23:41.110 --> 00:23:42.240
  • And, you know, the older I get, I meet a lot of people who've
  • 00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:46.090
  • navigated decades with unanswered questions.
  • 00:23:46.100 --> 00:23:50.170
  • And, you know, but the main question in that moment is,
  • 00:23:50.180 --> 00:23:53.130
  • can you still find your way to the place of praise and trust
  • 00:23:53.140 --> 00:23:55.150
  • and actually hope?
  • 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.200
  • And for me, that's been the biggest thing.
  • 00:23:57.210 --> 00:24:00.260
  • I think it's like being an evergreen worshiper.
  • 00:24:00.270 --> 00:24:04.190
  • You know, in the summertime, all the trees are green
  • 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:08.130
  • and it's easy to be green, right?
  • 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:12.080
  • But when it's winter, that kinda marks out who you are
  • 00:24:12.090 --> 00:24:15.230
  • as a worshiper, and it's when you find out which trees
  • 00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:18.000
  • are evergreen.
  • 00:24:18.010 --> 00:24:19.110
  • So it's really where you find out if your worship really
  • 00:24:19.120 --> 00:24:21.080
  • has some substance.
  • 00:24:21.090 --> 00:24:23.000
  • And, you know, we've all had different things,
  • 00:24:23.010 --> 00:24:25.070
  • you know, even talking through my story today,
  • 00:24:25.080 --> 00:24:27.130
  • some people would have had that suicide thing somewhere in their
  • 00:24:27.140 --> 00:24:31.000
  • life, whether it be a friend or extended family member or
  • 00:24:31.010 --> 00:24:34.240
  • close family members, some people would have had some,
  • 00:24:34.250 --> 00:24:37.290
  • you know, turbulence, whether it be some abusive stuff going on,
  • 00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:41.190
  • and, you know, all these different things that
  • 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:43.230
  • we can go through.
  • 00:24:43.240 --> 00:24:45.070
  • There's just that--the most beautiful people I've ever met
  • 00:24:45.080 --> 00:24:49.210
  • are the people who've navigated those storms and somehow
  • 00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:52.150
  • are still finding their way to a place of worship.
  • 00:24:52.160 --> 00:24:55.210
  • Well, that's just beautiful.
  • 00:24:55.220 --> 00:24:57.030
  • Brian: Yeah, all right, so we've better finish up.
  • 00:24:57.040 --> 00:24:58.210
  • So, Matt Redman's life is over, and so,
  • 00:24:58.220 --> 00:25:02.180
  • now, on that tombstone they're gonna write something.
  • 00:25:02.190 --> 00:25:06.070
  • It can't be too long.
  • 00:25:06.080 --> 00:25:07.170
  • It's obviously quite short. What would you like it to say?
  • 00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:10.170
  • Matt: You know, I'll take a line from one of my songs,
  • 00:25:10.180 --> 00:25:13.140
  • if that's not too presumptuous.
  • 00:25:13.150 --> 00:25:15.080
  • I have a song called "Unbroken Praises."
  • 00:25:15.090 --> 00:25:16.210
  • It says: "Let my deeds outrun my words.
  • 00:25:16.220 --> 00:25:19.010
  • Let my life outweigh my songs."
  • 00:25:19.020 --> 00:25:21.070
  • And I think I would love it if they could say that
  • 00:25:21.080 --> 00:25:23.090
  • that was true of me.
  • 00:25:23.100 --> 00:25:24.190
  • You know, I love songwriting.
  • 00:25:24.200 --> 00:25:26.210
  • I love seeing this little adventure of songs flying around
  • 00:25:26.220 --> 00:25:29.100
  • the world and end up in different situations and people
  • 00:25:29.110 --> 00:25:32.260
  • use them to talk to God.
  • 00:25:32.270 --> 00:25:34.220
  • You know, I love that.
  • 00:25:34.230 --> 00:25:36.020
  • But ultimately, I want my life, you know,
  • 00:25:36.030 --> 00:25:38.210
  • who I am behind the scenes, who I am in a family environment
  • 00:25:38.220 --> 00:25:42.180
  • and all those other places to outweigh the songs.
  • 00:25:42.190 --> 00:25:46.010
  • Brian: That's powerful words, and I've got a feeling
  • 00:25:46.020 --> 00:25:48.080
  • it's gonna happen.
  • 00:25:48.090 --> 00:25:49.180
  • So, great to talk to you, Matt. Good to see you.
  • 00:25:49.190 --> 00:25:52.190